Oceanic biocube 29 gallon

[rockstarnsc83]

Hello guys, I am new on the forum. This is my very first post. I recently purchased a 29 gallon Oceanic biocube. So far, I cut some of the plastic behind the filter for more flow. I upgraded the pump to a Rio 6HF. Got a heater hiding in the pump chamber, thermometer with a probe. I invested in a RO system to clean my water and im using Instant Ocean sea salt.

I found a guy in Florida that was selling live rock from his established 8 year old tank. He had thousands of lbs and said rock of that quality would retail for about $12 a lb. I paid $4 a lb and got 40 lbs. Some of it i took a hammer too making rubble and its in the 2nd chamber with just 2 layers of bioballs on top. The sand is 50 lbs of fiji live white sand which made about a 3.5 inch sand bed. How does all of that sound so far?

Next, for lighting..I have a question that I hope doesnt sound dumb..but do I turn the daylight and actinic lights on at the same time..or at seperate times..how about the moon light l.e.d's? If anyone can give me a basic rundown on when I should be operating what lights that would help a lot. Because right now im thinking its either daylight for a certain amount of hours and then actinic for a certain amount...or either daylight and actinic for a certain amount and then moon lights at night. THANKS ALL

[poppin_fresh]

Sounds like you are on the right track all the way around.

Most people start the actinics a short while before the main lights so as not to startle everything in the tank every day. They may also do the reverse at night to ramp the lighting back down. You will want to run the actinics along with the daylights for the best color rendering. I would shoot for the main lights to be on about 10 hours a day with an hour of actinic before and after for 12 hours total.

You can have the moonlights come on any time you wish as they dont really do anything for the tank. They are more for our viewing pleasure. They dont need to run all night either, I wouldn't bother keeping them on much after you've gone to bed.

Ohhh and WELCOME!

[lReef lKeeper]

my VHO actinics come on at 9am, halides come on at 12 noon, halides off at 8pm, and actinics off at 11pm. HTH

[rockstarnsc83]

thanks guys... the tanks been running about 2 weeks..todays test readings show
salinity- 1.023
ph-8.0
nitrite-5.0 ppm or more
ammonia-.025 ppm
calcium- 350 ppm
phosphate- 0 mg
nitrate 110 mg or more

I know the calcium needs to go up..same with Ph

[lReef lKeeper]

everything alse needs to be at 0 before adding anything (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate)

[rockstarnsc83]

Here are some pics so far.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/3.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/4.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/5.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/6.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/7.jpg

[poppin_fresh]

You're off to a great start. Two things...

1. Your PH is fine, leave it alone. Tinkering with it could cause problems
2. Dont worry about the calcium yet. Unless you have corals that need it (you dont yet) 350 is perfecty acceptable.

Many people think they have to dive in and start dosing this and that right from the start. The problem is that if you dont know what you are doing you will do more harm than good. Sometimes its best to LEAVE IT ALONE. :)

[lReef lKeeper]

^^^ what he said ^^^

[rockstarnsc83]

IM wondering what that is on the live rock in the 4th pic..anyone help me out identifying?

[lReef lKeeper]

looks like a dead coral skeleton, maybe a favia sp.

[R. Deschain]

Are you refering to the hairy looking things on the left? My guess: probably some dead or dying stuff that's decaying and fueling your cycle.

[rockstarnsc83]

no, 4th pic to the right. These live rocks came from an established tank of 8 years. The guy lives in Florida and has like 3 550 gallon tanks of live rock thats been established..but I think hes down to around 350 lbs of live rock he had thousands of lbs.

[lReef lKeeper]

i was talking about this ...

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/lReef_lKeeper/skeleton.jpg

[rockstarnsc83]

yeah, thats what I was talking about. I knew that you knew what I was talking about.

[CarmieJo]

hi rockstar and :welcome: to TR!

I would recommend that you pull the bioballs right now. You have plenty of LR and they will serve no purpose except to build nitrates. How big did you leave the pieces of rock in the back? Also I might not start right off with a 12 hour lighting cycle. Most tanks go through an initial algae bloom and IMO starting out with 12 hours of light just extends that period. I doubt you can skip the algae bloom but you can try to manage it.

[rockstarnsc83]

most pieces of the live rock in the back are golf ball sized. and a few are almost tennis sized.....its 2 layers of bio balls..probably 3 to 4 handfuls on top.....it quieted down the waterfall effect

[lReef lKeeper]

i would also remove the bioballs and replace them with more LR rubble.

[R. Deschain]

Sorry, miscounted the pictures

[rockstarnsc83]

i would also remove the bioballs and replace them with more LR rubble.

So even just the few small handfuls on top arent good to have?

[lReef lKeeper]

nope, if they are not submerged in water with an insane amount of flow ... they will always produce nitrates.

[rockstarnsc83]

ok..thanks..wasnt sure about that...I only did that to quiet down the waterfall affect....Im thinking of getting some filter floss also to put on top of the live rock in that area.

[CarmieJo]

Just be sure to not let detritus build up in the floss.

[rockstarnsc83]

well the floss is there to catch all of that right? and I should just clean it out every so often right? I dont know..im not familiar with it..ive just tried to read what some others have done as well. What are the best suggestions for the back of the 29 biocube..like i said..I cust some plastic from first chamber to allow better flow..the filter is still in place...mostly the live rock i hammered into smaller pieces in 2nd chamber....probably going to wind up getting the cr3 skimmer also. and 3rd chamber just has the upgraded pump and heater.

[Plasticreefer]

i have an oceanic, goodbuy, the skimmer i also have, it works great. i agree that you really should pull out all the bio balls...

[CarmieJo]

You would want to change the filter floss probably every 2 or 3 days. What happens is that aerobic (oxygen loving) nitrifing bacteria starts building up on the floss, the detritus feeds the bacteria and, doing their job, the bacteria go to work to break it down into nitrate. This is the same thing that happens with bio-balls. Fish can tolerate some nitrate but corals can't. Luckily, in the bottom of DSB's and deep in your LR other anaerobic (without oxygen) de-nitrifing bacteria take the nitrate and break it down in to harmless nitrogen gas.

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Rockstarnsc83 and :welcome: to TR! I think the floss should be fine as it will help polish the water, BUT as CJo said, make sure you stay on top of keeping it clean. I like to use floss and the blue matting as part of my filtration and when I tried it without, I could tell a big difference. :D

[rockstarnsc83]

Thanks guys. Next question I have is about lighting..One day I will probably upgrade the whole lighting system..but that will be a while away im sure. My question is , on the stock biocube the lights are ( 1 )36 watt true actinic 03 blue straight pin light and ( 1 )36 watt 10,000 K day light straight pin. What if I had ( 2) 36 Watt 50/50 Actinic/Daylight Power Compact Coralife Lamps would it just be the same pretty much? is it a good idea ?

[rockstarnsc83]

Ok thanks to CarmieJo's advice, I decided to order up a new 36 watt 10,000 K and a 36 watt 50/50 actinic/daylight compact lamp

[rockstarnsc83]

OK, so on to the skimmer.. I am thinking of getting the CPR SR3 Skimmer which fits in the 2nd chamber of the biocube. Is there still room for live rock rubble in the 2nd chamber as well?

[CarmieJo]

I have not used one but CPR's site says it is 8-5'8" long and I think that would take up a whole compartment in the back of my NanoCube24.

[rockstarnsc83]

What is this growing on my rock now? is it some kind of brown algae or something?? It just recently came up.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture336.jpg

[lReef lKeeper]

that looks like Diatoms. they are pretty much the last stage of the cycle. nothing to worry about, they will go away on their own in a week or so.

[rockstarnsc83]

everythings only been cycling about 2 weeks...I guess the 8 year old established rock has played a great role in this process. thanks

[lReef lKeeper]

yeah, i would say that the cured rock had a lot to do with it.

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello life in the fast lane rockstar83.... :up: Yes that is a diatom bloom which is a common occurance in a newly established set up. That will pass as well as any amonia and nitrite levels. Once your cycle is complete you should be able to do a water change and then slowly add your clean up crew and move on to bigger and better things....slowly. :agree:

[rockstarnsc83]

I have another lighting question. Ive been looking at the lighting upgrades on nanotuners and I am between two kits. So I want opinions The oceanic biocube standard has 1 36 watt true actinic 03 blue straight pin and 1 36 wat t 10,000K daylight straight pin. The upgrade is for an extra 2 bulbs......144watt pc lighting. the other upgrade is to a 70W HQI. and the bulb choices are 14,000 K , 10,000 K and 20,000 K Hqi. I just want to know whats better the 144 watt pc lighting or the 70 w HQI...and IF 70W HQI is better which bulb would be best? Thanks

[CarmieJo]

Here is what I think but I have not had either so it is not based on anything but what I have read. The 144 watts of PC (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=15031#) may produce more heat than the 70 watt MH (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=15031#) and heat is often an issue in an all in one. All light is not created equal so even thought the PC's are double the watts of the MH without a PAR meter it would be hard to say which provides more intense light. I personally might choose the MH in the 14K bulb.

[Phurst]

Well, what are you going to be keeping in the tank? that will help us decide between the PC upgrade or the MH upgrade. I currently have a nano with upgraded PC lights, and I just sold a nano with a MH light. My (strong) preference was for the MH. I have 133w of PC light on a 29 gal and still wouldn't try anything beyond mushrooms, xenia, zoas, and other low light corals.

[rockstarnsc83]

Ok so I dont know exactly what im going to keep in the tank...But there would be no need to upgrade the canopy again for lighting...so should I just upgrad to the MH? But anything basic like mushrooms and the low light corals would work really well off of the 70 watt HQI , right?

[Phurst]

Yes, you could keep a wide variety of things under the 70w. Mushrooms, softies, zoas, leathers, LPS, etc. might even be able to get away with some lower light SPS like montipora higher up in the tank.

[rockstarnsc83]

So If i went with the 70 w HQI..what would be a good bulb, 10,000k, 14,000k, or 20,000 k

[Phurst]

Personal preference really. 10k is going to be your strongest bulb, resulting in the best growth, but tends to look yellow to some people. 20K is very blue, and really brings out the colors in your corals, but the growth will not be as good. 14k is somewhere in the middle as far as white/blue balance, but most 14k bulbs have less photosyntheticaly available light than 10 or 20k bulbs. I run 20k on my tank with actinic suplimentation. I really like blue though :)

[rockstarnsc83]

Ok so I also just realized when you upgrade..its not just a 70w MH, the stock lights still stay as well..so it would be 70w mh and 2 36 watt pc lights.

[Phurst]

Oh, that's cool. in that case, you could use a 10k HQI bulb abd 2 36w actinincs. Best of both worlds :)

[rockstarnsc83]

That sounds good too..how would a 10,000 K HQI bulb do with two 50/50s ?

[Phurst]

Personaly I'd opt for straight actinics, but you'll be fine either way.

[rockstarnsc83]

So actinics are required for corals or not? CarmieJo said "the actinic lights don't do anything for the corals lighting needs, they just make them prettier for us" But now I see it says they are required....I need som insight I guess...thanks

[lReef lKeeper]

they are NOT a nessecity for corals, although they help to bring out its color potential.

[rockstarnsc83]

I am starting to have bubbles come up. They are just stitting on the rock...is this common as well? whats it mean exactly....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture339.jpg

[CarmieJo]

You have O2 bubbles forming on the algae growing on the rock.

[rockstarnsc83]

but is that a good thing? and how long will they be there...etc?

[Phurst]

It's fine. All a part of a new tank cycling and maturing. As the algae diminishes, so will the bubbles.

[rockstarnsc83]

Ok and how about the top of my sand turning a light brown..is that the diatoms too and will that go away?

[Phurst]

Yep and yep :) If you wanted, you could run some phosphate remover which will also remove silica which feeds the diatoms. they should go away on their own eventually though.

[lReef lKeeper]

^^^ what he said ^^^

[rockstarnsc83]

Here are my updated pics..not the best pics but here ya go. This is right over 3 weeks of having the tank going.
I got salinity of 1.024, PH - 8.1, Nitrite- 0 , Ammonia - 0, Phosphate- 0, Calcium- 350, and Nitrate is between 0 and 5 mg. What should my next step be within the next few days? Should I do a water change? Should I go ahead and get some hermits for clean up crew soon? thanks

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture002.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture001.jpg

[Phurst]

A water change would be fine, as would adding a cleanup crew, or at least a few snails. Hermits are personal preference. I use them, but there are plenty of people who don't like them.

[rockstarnsc83]

I heard the snails multiply big time....so the green algae that grows on the glass...whats the best way to control that...I cleaned the glass inside yesterday...the magnet doesnt work on that....but this brush did. and i stired up the top of the sand where the diatoms had covered it.

[rockstarnsc83]

and how big of a water change? 25 to 50 percent? and should I change the filter cartridge out now as well?

[Phurst]

FW snails do indeed multiply like bunnies, but most SW snails either will not reproduce, or if they do, the eggs are usually eaten by the tank inhabitants. Either way, overpopulation of snails in a SW tank isn't something I've ever seen or heard of.

Anywhere from 10% to 20% should be a fine water change. I don't think there's a need to change out the filter yet, unless it looks particularly nasty. there are no fish, so it shouldn't have filtered much.

Snails do a great job on the film algae on the glass as well.

[rockstarnsc83]

Ok so my last question is how many snails should I get then for the 29 gallon...seeing as its probly more around 22 to 24 gallons in the viewing area. I do want some hermits as well..the dwarf hermits..so how many hermits and how many snails would be a good number. I appreciate it.

[Phurst]

There's no hard and fast rule for a cleanup crew, especially in a smaller tank. While it may be tempting to add a bunch to clean up the diatoms and algae, you'll be better off starting slow and adding more snails and crabs gradually to find a good level.

I'd go with maybe 2 astreas, 2 turbans, maybe a nasarious and a turbo to start., and maybe 5 or 6 dwarf hermits.

If you add the hermits, it may be necessary to add a small amount of fish food (pellet, preferably) once or wice a week for them to eat until there are fish in the tank. They can then scavenge on their own.

As your tank matures and changes, you can add or remove different CUC members t o suit your current conditions.

My suggestions are by no means gospel. In fact, I have always had pretty small CUCs in my tanks, so I'd encourage you to get a bunch of opinions and sort of make up your own mind about what species and how many of what you should add.

[rockstarnsc83]

and how about tempature? It changes between 79 and 81..mosty like 79.6 to 80.8 . Is this a good temp or should it be a little higher?

[Phurst]

Those ranges are just fine.

[CarmieJo]

I agree with Pearson, start out small with your CUC and build as you see the need. I like hermits too but some people don't. I like trochus and cerith snails too.

[IAreef]

Seahorsedreams posted a great CUC link a while back it helped me immensely when picking out my crew...seahorse.org - Tankmates (http://www.seahorse.org/library/TESTING/cucbasic/cuc.shtml)

HTH

[R. Deschain]

Here's the story of the CUC currently in my BC14. I agree with Phust et al. that every tank will have different needs and ecological niches to fill.

My 2 blue legged hermit are pretty aggresive and occasionally take out a snail, but they are great detritovores (along with my peppermint shrimp). My 4 astrea snails are champs @ cleaning the glass. Emerald crab is a great algae eater. My 1 Cerith churns up the sandbed.

This is just an example, hope it helps!

[rockstarnsc83]

I ordered my cuc. At least for now its 1 Scarlet hermit, 2 blue leg hermits and 2 mexican red leg hermits. 3 Nassarius snails, 1 Trochus snail and 1 Fighting Conch.

[Phurst]

Sounds like a good start.

[rockstarnsc83]

What is the best temp that the water should be at in the tank. Mine is all and all around 80...should it be lower?

[Phurst]

80 is no problem. I know of great looking tanks that range anywhere from about 77 to about 82.

[tcomfort826]

Hello everyone, I know I'm jumping threads here, but was reading this one and had a question. I think the concensus is bioballs gone. Is that for every biocube, or just this setup. (hello rockstar! Nice start) I have bio balls in my biocube 14 in the center chamber under a black piece of plastic that keeps them submerged. Not sure if there is lr rubble underneath, was there when the tank was given to me. (it was already set up with ls and some water). I am also considering a protein skimmer, but need to understand the cube first. Thanks

Tracy

[rockstarnsc83]

yeah take those bioballs out. All mine are out now

So everyone 2 days ago I decided to move the rock back...of course it all fell down and the tank clouded up so I couldnt see. But what I thought was going to be a disaster and not look as good putting the rock back turned out to be quite nice.

so this is a before shot of the layout of rock

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture001.jpg

and here is the new rock layout:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/june0332.jpg

[CarmieJo]

Rockstar, I love it when even though it seems like I made a mess it comes out okay. Looks like a nice aquascape with plenty of nooks and crannies for your fish.

Tracy, bio-balls are OK in fish only systems but if you want to keep inverts or corals they are a bad idea because of nitrate. You see, bio-balls do a great job of converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate which fish tolerate in moderate amounts. However corals don't tolerate nitrates well.

[rockstarnsc83]

So just the other day I updated my clean up crew, so right now its
1 scarlet hermit
4 blue leg hermits
2 mexican red leg hermits
1 stocky cerith snail
2 nerite snails
2 nassarius snails
1 trochus snail
1 fighting conch
1 green emerald crab

[CarmieJo]

When I first started my tank I could sit and watch my hermits for hours. How is the algae bloom? You may find that the critters won't eat it when it is long.

[rockstarnsc83]

Everythings going well !!! =)

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Rocker! Looks like things are progressing nicely for you and your list looks fine. As mentioned before in other replies, you yourself will have to find a happy balance or number of hermits/crabs for your system as everyone has their own preferences and needs. As with any creature, if not provided enough sustinance to survive own in your tank, they will rely on their natural instincts for survival whether that be a negative or constructive behavior. Some reasons that these creatures are not kept in abundance is their tendancy to bump, move or knock down small framented rock rumble, frags or other corals that have not been permanently or securely fastened to a position. Another reason when not having alot would be when food sources are low some species have a tendancy to "graze" leaving small marks in LR and eating on the purple algaes. Creatures who are well fed tend to have less dominant, negative effects. And of course all life forms have a main genetic make-up, but are each an individual and temperments and habits are different. Just like people!

[rroselavy]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/7.jpg

Hey Rockstar,

I just happened to notice that your Fiji sand looks very translucent, almost like finely ground quartz or marble, not like calcium carbonate (CaCO3 - Aragonite). I am probably mistaken, but where did you get this sand?

BTW: I like your LR layout. good flat surfaces for coral mounting...

[rroselavy]

So just the other day I updated my clean up crew, so right now its
1 scarlet hermit
4 blue leg hermits
2 mexican red leg hermits
1 stocky cerith snail
2 nerite snails
2 nassarius snails
1 trochus snail
1 fighting conch
1 green emerald crab

I've had no problems with the scarlet hermits (although their beneficial impact uncertain), but you may want to watch the blue leg and red leg hermits to make sure they do not terrorize your snails and irritate your corals. You may collect corals that they have no interest in, but my Zebra hermits love to climb on my Caulestrea furcata and also tromp on Corallimorphs and knock some other small things over. They are interesting to watch, but you may decide later on that they need to be policed. Getting some appropriately sized empty shells will help keep the hermits from going after your snails for their shells.

My choice in snails includes the Cerith, Trochus, and Nassarius. Slowly building up to a count of 8 Ceriths, 6-8 Trochus, and 4 Nassarius may work well for your tank. The Tonga Fighting Conch is good as well. You may find that the Nerite snails will climb out of your tank or into the sump compartments, but in your nano with lid I'm not sure if that is even possible.

Lastly, you mentioned that your SB was about 3+" deep? This between the normally recommended SSB (<1") and DSB (>4", >6" with courser substrates) depths. It has been studied that these intermediate depths allow diffused nutrients to get trapped since the substrate is not quite deep enough for anoxic zones where bacteria obtain oxygen from nitrates because of the lack of oxygen in the substrate. This process turns nitrates a harmless gas. You may not see the effect right away, but 12 to 18 months down the line it may contribute to a buildup of nitrates in your system. In other words, if you want a deep sand bed to help you process nitrates, you may want to add an inch. If you do not want a DSB, you may want to remove all but and inch of substrate.

Some sandbed info:

"Reefkeeping 101 -
Natural Filtration - Part 2" : Scroll down to the section "Getting to the Bottom of Things" (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-05/newbie/index.php)

Ron Shimek's Deep Sand Beds (http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html)

"An Experimental Comparison of Sandbed and Plenum-Based Systems: Part 2" (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/7/aafeature/view)

[rockstarnsc83]

Can anyone identify what these are thanks. they just have been growing on the rock.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture100.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/groomsxxx/Fish%20tank/Picture097.jpg

[CarmieJo]

I think that they are both types of algae but I can't tell you more than that.

[rroselavy]

My guess (at best a guess from the pics) is that the first one is a small piece of Gracilaria (http://www.marineflora.com/bmz_cache/4/4566d46bdf76d5229fd88f2fc1316177.image.400x400.jpg ) and that the second is some species of Dictyota (http://www.biol.tsukuba.ac.jp/~inouye/ino/st/br/Dictyota-1.GIF).

[rockstarnsc83]

thanks! I still dont have fish yet but will any fish eat the Dictyota ?