Here is a short little video of a current batch of baby Bangaii Cardinals on Day 19 of gestation and starting to hatch. A little background music never hurt either.

Time Line:

Male Started Holding on March 8 2006
I forced him to spit the eggs March 13 2006
Video Shot March 27 2006

Baby Bangaii Video (http://www.reefobsession.com/movies/baby_bangaii_0001.wmv)

enjoy

Awesome Stephen! I used to raise these bad boys too! My pair was responsible for providing HUNDREDS of offspring into the New England area. It is amazing eh? The male holding the clutch, etc. I sold my breeding pair when I got into an even more amazing program, breeding H. Reidi.

Now...banggai males fasting, holding a clutch for weeks.. cool!!! Male H. Reidi, carrying fry in a pouch, actually having contractions and producing the young... very cool! I also noted that most female hobbyists enjoy this fact ;)

Have you ever read Dr. Frank Marini's work on the cardinals? Those writings were my "rule of thumb" in my program. Good stuff... You can actually post to him and see his work on Marine Depot's forums now.

Dave

What kind of system do you have the pair in? You can't catch the male and move him to a birthing tank? How many fry did you get? Inquiring minds want to know.

D

Thanx Dave! Yes, Frank Marini and i have chatted back and forth many times regarding Bangaii. Good work on the Reidi- ponies need all the help they can get too! I have several H. kelloggi pairs that I am working with. They are young and inexperienced though for now.

I have two pairs of Bangaii breeding. This pair is in a 55 coral grow out tank. I can catch him pretty easy to get the eggs when ready. This time around it looks like about 20 fry.

Yeah... I'm not sure if everyone knows, but the lagoons in and around Togean and Banggai islands were really affected by the tsunami over there.

The Banggai Cardinals (Pterapogon kauderni) were ALREADY in trouble before the quake/tidal wave. They are found in such a small local, that they suffer from the smallest shifts in environment, genetic issues etc. Worse, the numbers collected for the hobby are staggering. Especially when you get into mortality rates thereafter.

Anyone who can breed locally, and help offset the demand in the hobby is doing a justice for all. I applaud Stephen and others who do this.

Can I piggyback on this thread and post some notes and pictures of "back when" when I was breeding them?

Dave

Can I piggyback on this thread and post some notes and pictures of "back when" when I was breeding them?

Dave


Dude, by all means yes! Please do so!

Any info shared is appreciated. One thing I noticed about WC bangers is the presence of internal parasites. I tried forever to get a good WC pair out of about 18 I have 1 still living a male that is going to be paired with on of my 1st batch young females.

I have had him for over a year now, and he is a huge, beautiful specimen.

Enjoyed the video very much Stephen. The addition of music was spot on and very cool.
I will be watching this thread very closely. As one who is just on the verge of starting a small breeding setup I am trying to learn as much as I can before choosing which animals I want to attempt.

JIM

Well I just got back from peeking on them Now there are 21 baby bangers in the catch net! All up and swimming about eating bbs!

Very nice... yeah.. I also know that WC BC's don't ship well. My LFS gets them from time to time and has fewer than 1/2 left when he is acclimating.

Okay...let me dig out some pics and notes...

D

I look forward to your information. I can never get enough...

I updated the video (same link) with footage from today showing abut 22 babies hanging out and their fake urchin.

Wow- great video! We not only get your sponsorship, but awesome videos too!! Thanks so much!!

That video was absolutely awesome! I really enjoyed it and the music was a great touch. Good luck with the offspring.

So, Stephen, I don't know anything about breeding Cardinals....why do you have to force the male to spit the eggs?

Thanks for the video too! The videos are always great, because they're often things that we might never see in our own tanks!

I used to have a pair of breeding Bangii's. I would see the male hangin out with this little tiny tail sticking out of his mouth for about 5 days or so and then.....


fish food :(

I wish I had known about the epoxy tooth pick trick.

I would have loved little babies. I don't think that I have the time to feed babies.

Great Video, but Boston?!??!??!?

Thanx for the nice comments everyone!

Reefbaby- The male cardinal holds the eggs in his mouth for about 20-28 days. During this time he does not eat. He is not doing anything "special" during this time with the eggs, just protecting them from being eaten.

He does tend to consume a few eggs during incubation. So really the male is not needed after the fertilization is done. By forcing him to spit the eggs out early he is given the opportunity to continue eating and remains heathy. It also allows me to get a higher yield per nest and allows the next mating cycle to occur in a shorter time.

TRS- Feeding them is not difficult. I use decapsulated (hatching) baby brine. No shells, no muss, no fuss. And just what is wrong with Boston? :D

I wanted something just to cover the loud background noise of all the pumps and water gurgle at the shop.

Glad you are all enjoying the video. More to come.

cool vid
congrats on your sucesses. i will try to do that soon.

What's wrong with Boston? Oh...you mean the band...

"Boys, I think this bands outta-sight" ;)

coral dynamics... i think you lit a flame under everyone. now, everyone is going to try to breed fish. thanks for the vid.... very cool!!

coral dynamics... i think you lit a flame under everyone. now, everyone is going to try to breed fish. thanks for the vid.... very cool!!

LOL!!! If it helps take some of the toll off the WC fish, then all the better!

Thanx everyone!



From JustDavidP - "Boys, I think this bands outta-sight"

Obscure Song quotes for 100, Alex.

My Banggai's carried for 26 days, faithfully. This enabled me to capture Mr. Man and transfer him to the sumpfugium where I would raise the fry. I got between 20 and 30 fry each time.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Cardinalholding.jpg

You can see Mr. Man looking like he's going to "hurl" in these shots. He's been carrying, hasn't eaten (notice his belly) and is just waiting to be freed of this responsibility.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Cardinalholding2.jpg

Here is "home" for the babies

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/refugiumcardinalhome.jpg

The only "mod" that I had to make, was to cover the overflow holes with wedding veil and egg crate to keep the babies in

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/sumpcardinalmod.jpg

On day 24, 25 or so... I'd scoop up Mr. Man and put him below. If I missed, I'd lose some fry, but the ones that were in the display always ended up in the sump.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/inthesumpcardinals.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/inthesumpcardinals3.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/inthesumpcardinals4.jpg

Otherwise, they were born in the fuge...and after, Mr. Man was sent to a 20 gallon to "rest". He hadn't eaten in a month..and needs to recoop. The babies were free to fend for themselves... as perfectly functioning "mini me's"

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals10.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals1.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals4.jpg

There, in the fuge, they'd immediately begin to eat baby mysid, baby pods, and freshly hatched baby brine shrimp....and GROW! and grow, and grow....

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals9.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals8.jpg

WHAT YOU LOOKIN AT!?!?!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/babecardinals5.jpg

All in all, I didn't lose any fry when they were in the sump. I did lose some, from time to time, as they made their way from the display to the sump..if I didn't catch Mr. Man in time.

After a few months, the fry were eating frozen foods. Only then did I send them off to their new homes.

They are an amazing fish. I WILL have more one day.

Dave

EXCELLENT chronicle Dave! Thank you so much for sharing those wonderful pics and captions!

Pretty much the same story line here, as far as the early days go...but now I get the babies onto frozen foods (cyclopeeze) inside of two weeks. They are on prepared foods only after that. I feed them shaved PE Mysis and cyclopeeze and boy do they grow! You are so right about that!!!

Time for you to get back into the game my friend!

Oh oh oh.. yes... I have always, from day 3-5 begun to provide frozen cyclopeeze... yes.. thank you for reminding me. T

hat is the "bridge" between the lil buggies in the sump to the frozen mysid. I too shaved mysid and adult brine to feed the babes.. they began looking for the mysid and brine EXCLUSIVELY in and around week 6-8.

I wish my seahorses were that eager. I've got some now, at 3+ months that still refuse frozen :(

Dave

Great chronicle Dave!!! Love the photos!! Awesome! :-)

Awesome! Raising them looks like a whole lot of fun.

Fantastic job guys! I have also had success in hatching these little jems, but never the time to raise them, instant fish food for the reef. Makes me want to try harder next time. Great job, again!

Oh you are soooo correct. Hatching and such is easy..and the first couple weeks, as they eat, they begin to grow and fast... but, they are "flaky" fish and can all of a sudden "crash" fast. They are also prone to some weird syndrome.. I had many, that were months old, and as I bagged them for their ultimate destination, they would literally "Faint" and sometimes....never come back :(

Others could be revived by forcing water over them. It's a weird thing.. never fully undertood it... it's like they were frightened to death!

Dave

they would literally "Faint" and sometimes....
is that like those sheep, that faint when you scare them.. :)..lol

sorry, didn't mean to stray the topic...

back to your regularly scheduled forum post.. :)

Smartguy... :)

Actually, here's some text from Dr. Frank Marini. Although he doesn't know it, he's been my "breeding mentor" for some time now.

Q: My babies "faint" after being scared (or they look like they are having a heart attack)

I have been asked about if the babies will have a heart attack if any stress is introduced into the tank, i.e. capturing the male after baby release, or even tank cleaning. Yes I have experienced this on many occasions, and from my experience about 90% of the time the babies recover in about 10-30 mins. I'm not sure, but I have read that this could be a defensive response (a bluff) or in fact a true heart attack. Another situation where this problem arises is in feeding, I have overfed the babies with baby brine nauipli and the babies greedily gulp it down and then just fall over dead (or worse, some one wrote me that they were feeding the babies adult live brine-and that the baby banggais would capture it and half of the brine shrimp was hanging out of its mouth-then drop dead on the bottom). In my experience, this is a serious problem, these fish are going to die if they are not dead already. I try to feed the correct amount of baby brine each time, its very empirical, I add a little baby brine and watch for it to disappear, then add more, and repeat until the baby banggais stop eating, sometimes leave them a little hungry. I have been unable to revive most of the babies which have over eaten and dropped and the babies which have been fed large food like the adult brine).

Enjoyed the story and the pics Dave. Thanks for sharing them.
I cant wait to get my tanks back up. Dave and you (Stephen) and this site have put the bug big time back in me.

JIM

Good... we love to make those landlocked, tornado fighting, dusty trail, kind o' folks into salty dawgs ;)

Dave

LOL Dave.
JIM

LOL If I sleep late again, I think you guys will have solved world hunger too!

Excellent info Dave, keeping the babies fed hi protien foods (cyclopeeze, PE Mysys, and day one hatch bbs) seems to help the sudden fright syndrome in the little bangers.

I have not had to deal with it very much unless I do something stupid like drop a large object in their tank (done it).