OK so like if you had a 150 gallon tank(5' by 2' by 2') and you wanted to give this tank the best case sencerio flow,, What would you do and what would you use?????

Closed Loops???
powerheads????
Tunzes with controlellers????
Vortech??????

Money no option!!!!

be sure to set the controllers offset to create a chaotic flow pattern. the more random the better.

i wish money was not an option for me !! lol (maybe soon though)

I have thought about this issue many times and I always come back to the powerheads answer.

Closed loops are great for really large systems where you probably have the space to deal with all the plumbing. You will also need a very large, high power pump (see also: expensive) to get a decent amount of flow out of many outputs. You will also ideally use a device such as an Oceans Motions to randomize the flow, because a simple inexpensive device like a SCWD will not work with the high pressures/flow used in a closed loop. They CAN however be designed to use almost no real estate in the tank versus powerheads.

Power heads, especially propeller types (Tunze, Vortech, Korallia) are great at moving a large amount of water in a wide pattern for relatively little $$. I say relatively, because some of these devices have high up front purchase prices, but they make up for it in their energy efficiency. Plus, some of them can be controlled to create many different amounts and types of flow. They do however, take up some space with in the tank.

For example I have the following in my tank

2 x Tunze 6025- 1220gph @ 12w total
1 x Tunze 6060- 1585gph @ 11w
1 x Tunze 6000- 660-1850gph @ 15w

total max flow- 4655gph @ 38w! This for me is about $4.45 a month to operate @ .16kwh electric rate

Versus
A a good closed loop pump with similar flow numbers...

Sequence Reeflo Barracuda
4500 gph @ 325 watts = $37.95 a month to operate @ .16 kwh rate

Even though my Tunze pumps cost more up front, they made up for it in less than a year based on the electrical savings alone. The longer I own them, the more money I save.

I've had no experience with a closed loop but it seems to me that powerheads with controllers give you more flexibility. I do like the idea of a spraybar behind the rockwork to prevent detritus buildup. I have a small powerhead on a timer behind the rocks that comes on for 30 minutes in the wee hours and this works reasonably well. But, if I ever do a closed loop a spraybar will be a must have.

When you say "mixed" do you mean Stonies and Softies? Or LPS, SPS, and SOME coralimorphs and button type corals?

The reason I ask is that I like to use powerheads in systems mixed with Stonies and Softies. This way, as the corals grow, you can blow streams through stonies, and into the softies.

I've found that if you have flow that is slack, or have softies in front of returns or powerheads, blowing toward stonies, the LPS/SPS suffer. If the softie should shed, the stony corals pay the price. If they aren't shedding, I still see stunted development on the SPS side, facing softies. It's got to be chemical warfare.

I'd rather have the option to reconfigure in a true mixed reef; as the corals develop. I'd have the water rush through the stonies, and then past softies.

Dave

I have no experience with large tanks, but for my tank, I was concerned with making it as simple and as bulletproof as possible. Closed loops no doubt work for many, but to me they look like many points of failure in terms of developing leaks (both at the joints and at the bulkheads), and are rather bulky if not gangly to conceal. This very conveniently fits in with my desire not to DIY if I do not have to...

Needless to say, I have seen some very impressive plumbing jobs that I could only aspire to..

I am pretty impressed by my Vortech flow. You could probably get away with just two on a 5' tank. The only problems I have had are all related to feeding:

1) The wireless wave driver has a feed mode, but the pump doesn't actually turn off. It spins at the lowest speed, which is not what the product page (http://www.ecotechmarine.com/products/wavedriver.htm) indicates.

2) Instead, if you were to cut the power to the pump using a controller - you risk the chance of having a fish swim into the front grill of the Vortech when your not watching. I had my sixline swim into the Vortech and stay there for a minute. Good thing I noticed him before turning the pump back on! There should be a mesh grill option that covers the front of the pump.

3) If you have the battery backup module like I do, there is no way to use a controller to turn off the pump.

OK so this is what I have come up with now. What about a barrcuda pump with a 4 way from OM. This tank build from RC uses this setup in a similar sized tank as mine and he states that he has had to turn down the pump because of too much flow!! Sounds good to me

Reef Central Online Community - Austin goes Rimless - Dudester's 203g mixed reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1148228)

But I think I would do the placement of the returns a little different. I want to hide them better than that. He does have a wavebox in his tank but I think thats more for the show of the wave than for flow. Could be wrong though.

Hello, My name is Mr. Tang and I'm a reefoholic

What have you decided to do Mike?

Barracuda pump with a OM 4 way!! I read some build threads on RC where they have bigger tanks and with this setup,, they needed to turn down the pump becasue of too much flow. Thats what made my decision for me. The fact that I can turn up the flow as the tank grows is really exciting!!

Nice! I bet you will love it!