I have way too much to write in here than I am actually going to take the time to write, but I have so many miscellaneous questions, and I feel like I'm just all over the place on this forum right now.

A quick question I just had on my mind, that I didn't know where to post was:
I'm COMPLETELY allergic to sand fleas. The last time I went to the Cayman Islands, I almost went into anaphylactic shock (from what I hear). My body swelled up like crazy... so I read that amphipods are sand fleas... Are those the same little guys that I'm allergic to? If so, that terrifies me!

So anyhow, I inherited an 80-Gallon salt water tank, fish / invertebrates / live rock when my roommate moved to Hawaii.

All that was living in it was one 3-striped damsel fish and one rock boring urchin. He hadn't cleaned his filter or changed his filter media in probably about 6 months when I got the tank, and he used to only test his water parameters when he saw the urchin's spikes beginning to droop.

It needed a lot of work, and I've never maintained a tank before... so I had a lot of learning that I needed to do, and fast. I mostly read things on the internet, and bought two books for beginners. I started using his water test kit, and got to work on lowering the ammonia / nitrites with additives and frequent canister filter cleaning / water changes. After I thought all was well (ammonia, nitrites 0), I added some fish. The damsel fish had to be caught and taken to the LFS - he wasn't havin' it. The urchin soon started dying. His spikes started falling off, and not long after he died. About that time I read that low DO was symbiotic to high nitrates. I realized that he didn't have enough oxygen in the tank, so I set out to get a second air pump. I didn't know yet that the main source of gas exchange happened at the surface. When I was shopping for air pumps, I found that the air pump I did have was for a 30-gallon aquarium, and the only other source of current was from the canister filter.

I immediately ordered and installed a protein skimmer, which was a huge chore in itself, because the tank had to be moved forward by an inch and a half to make room for it on the back. The stand is completely unfit for a salt water tank, and there is no room for a sump or refugium under it. I emptied the tank to just above the substrate and moved it forward - it's a glass tank - still pretty damn heavy. After that, I installed 4 maxi jet 1200's and a wavemaker. My boyfriend is BEGGING me to find a better placement for the powerheads, because he thinks they look atrocious with two in the front of the tank. I currently have two in the bottom back corners, aimed up and towards eachother, and two in the front, about 1/3 down, aimed up and towards eachother. The wavemaker is set to alternate between the two left and the two right powerheads right now, but there are a lot of other options.

My nitrates are still high. 80 ppm. I'm working on lowering them, and when I stirred up the sand and blew off the rocks with a turkey baster, there was an insane amount of detritus coming up. There still appears to be a lot of detritus in the sand. Speaking of the sand - I don't know what kind it is, but it's black. I don't know if it's a detritus trap or what. I like the way the black sand looks, but I'm guessing it might not be the most functional sand.

There is also not enough LR in the tank - my guess is it had about 25 - 30 lbs of LR in it, and I've added 41 pounds since, with more to go. AND speaking of LR, there is a little plant-like thing growing on my newest piece--it's kind of clear, and shaped like a small flower with tentacles that reach up towards the light. I saw someone else's aquarium today, and it looked like a smaller version of things that he had growing all over his rocks. (Aptasia maybe?) He told me to kill it immediately - that it's a nuisance. He said to inject it with hot water. Do I need to use DI water for that, or boil tap water, or... ?

I've seen some weird things living in my LR already - some weird bright green slug thing that dropped from a rock I was holding in my hand into another and just sucked RIGHT into a hole so fast I couldn't really see what it looked like, and a rainbow colored worm. Also, there are a LOT of bristle worms... a LOT. Those were there before I added my LR. I've gotten an arrow crab to eat them. I saw him eating one already. He munched on it all day.

I'm interested in buying lights for my tank (to support anemone / coral), and according to some calculations I found at one point I determined that I would need 2 x 250 MH (well, MH by choice - just seems like a good light) and for the actinics, I'm open to a couple different options, but I want a hood that also has nighttime LEDs, and I want it all hooked up to a timer to control them. Right now my lights are weak, though I do have them hooked up two two timers which slowly become out of sync.

The thing is - I'm not happy with the stand for my tank (dumb freshwater stand - water damaged, too), and I'm not even really happy with the size of my tank (it's standing against a 70" wall, so I think a 60" tank would look better than a 48" tank. Therefore, I'm reluctant to spend over a grand on lights when I should really just save up and get a whole new tank... but I'm still undecided and want the lights. I should focus on lowering the nitrates, but I'm not sure what else I should do aside from the frequent water changes. I put some denitrate rocks in the canister filter... Doesn't seem to do much, but maybe they're keeping it at a stable level. Who knows?

Also, when I clean the canister filter, I take all of the media and rinse it out in water that was removed from the tank. Then I put it back... Is that not a good enough way to get the detritus out? One guy told me he put a piece of sponge-like filter media in his washing machine with no soap on the gentle cycle... I don't know if I should do something like that (one media piece at a time, of course), or if rinsing it off in my used water is enough.

My tank is overstocked... especially when considering grown sizes of the fish, but maybe I'm just on the verge with the current sizes, so I should probably go ahead and work towards upgrading the tank and making it just how I like it anyway. I will list everything in my tank right now, as long as you don't yell at me for it being overstocked. :P

And everything has names, except for 15 of the hermit crabs, but I won't list those here. :mrgreen:

Inverts:
Arrow Crab
~18 small hermit crabs
Skunk-striped cleaner shrimp
Scarlet cleaner shrimp (fire shrimp)

Fish:
(Also, I'm aware that I'm not supposed to have all these clowns together. I was told I may have good luck with them if I added them all on the same day, so I did, and they have coexisted pretty peacefully, except the tomato clown is starting to get out of hand and I'd like to catch him and bring him to the LFS. If the hierarchy changes after he's gone, I'll do the same with the next until they're coexisting peacefully.)
1 Sebae Clown (I think)
1 Tomato Clown
1 False Percula Clown
1 Gold Striped Maroon Clown
2 Firefish Gobies
1 Purple Firefish Goby
1 Lawnmower Blenny
2 Banggai Cardinals
1 Royal Gramma
7 Green Chromis

And last but not least, here is a video of my little guys just after I added the powerheads:
YouTube Video

Some things have changed since that video - most significantly the addition of a single 35-lb piece of live rock, but that's still a general overview of my tank - also note the intrusive powerhead placement that my bf hates (I zoom in on them because the main purpose of me having those videos is to give tank updates to my roommate who's now in Hawaii). Does anyone have any suggestions for the best places to put these 4 powerheads?

I'm COMPLETELY allergic to sand fleas. The last time I went to the Cayman Islands, I almost went into anaphylactic shock (from what I hear). My body swelled up like crazy... so I read that amphipods are sand fleas... Are those the same little guys that I'm allergic to? If so, that terrifies me!NO, the Amphipods and Copepod in your aquarium are not the sand fleas that caused you great harm in the Caymen Islands. I can't give you any background on them but what did you harm live on dry land and not aquatic. They bite, Amphipods and Copepod do not.

Nitrates - 80 ppm is quite high and borderline trouble for your fish and invertebrates. The probable causes are detritus in the sand bed, water source, foods, and the biggest culprit is the canister filter. Canister filters have been coined, Nitrate sinks, meaning the source of your problem. In order to reduce your Nitrates under the current situation is massive water changes often. Not an easy thing to do in an 80 gallon.

You need to seriously think through getting that 60" tank and setting it up the right way. The right way would require you to thoroughly research the subject here on TR. Here's a link to my tank thread - http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef.html - This will give you an idea of other methods we employ to filter our reef tanks.

Also, here's a link on Deep Sand Beds (DSB) - Sand Bed Secrets (http://www.theculturedreef.com/aragonite.htm) - Click on the thumbnail picture of the book.

Aptasia - A pest!!! You can try the hot water thing but something many have found that works better is Joe's Juice. I've used it to completely eliminate the pest from my 135. Here's the link - Joe's Juice (http://www.theculturedreef.com/joesjuice.htm)

I'll post more suggestions at a later time. Got to run right now.

Dick

That's good to know about the amphipods - I didn't want to die, haha.

With the nitrates,a t least I know it's not the water source - tests 0 before I mix it into my tank... and I was doing 25-gallon changes every week - I thought that'd be big enough to get it handled by now, and my patience is wearing thin! (In the beginning, though, I didn't know I had to disturb the sand and blow detritus off the rocks.)

The canister filter: Shouldn't I be able to handle it by cleaning it frequently? I have a feeling that my method of rinsing the sponges in used salt water isn't enough to get all the detritus out and maybe I should try to put it through the washing machine like someone (from wetwebmedia) once suggested to me.

Joe's Juice: I'll give it a try - but I SO hate paying for shipping when I buy stuff. It's actually preventing me from buying some replacement suction cups for an old powerhead - NO I won't pay $8 shipping for a 65-cent item - ew.

Speaking of small powerheads - if I DID have to pay $9 for suction cups for an old Rio 600 powerhead, does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement small powerhead instead? It's just for the 12-Gallon quarantine tank. I was thinking a Maxi-Jet 400, since I like my Maxi-Jet 1200's in my DT...

I'd say the sand bed and LR were big storers of detritus, supplying the nitrates. It had probably been building up for a year without being disturbed when I got the tank, and there is always plenty of white detritus coming out of the sand when it's stirred. Also, I have no snails - will that help at all?

Oh I will DEFINITELY design my next system by the book - substrate and all - but still, I need to find a good deal on a tank / stand on Craigslist or something. It's just crazy expensive. My boyfriend thought I was insane for spending $200 on a rock... luckily he didn't ask me what it cost until 2 hours after it was all situated. :P

LIGHTS: Does anyone know whether I should look into buying these lights (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/for/570126098.html)? I wanted 2 x 250-Watt MH, but these are 2 x 175 Watt, and I don't know that they'll be enough to support Anemone / Coral. I also had my heart set on lights w/ night time LEDs... but those lights are only $250 - the fact that it says "retrofit", though, means I can't use them, if I don't have a canopy, right?

Thanks for the response - I'll be sure to check some of those other links you posted later, when my company isn't paying me to sit here and read this forum. :P

That's good to know about the amphipods - I didn't want to die, haha.I knew you'd like that. :agree:

The canister filter: Shouldn't I be able to handle it by cleaning it frequently?No. The canister filter can help eliminate Ammonia and Nitrate because it in colonized with the aerobic bacteria necessary for converting those substances to Nitrate. The Nitrate continues to build up because there isn't anaerobic conditions necessary to convert the Nitrate to Nitrogen gas, the final stage in the Nitrogen cycle. You could clean it every day, that's not going to solve the problem.

I understand not wanting to pay shipping on one item. That's why we price our items to include shipping. You'll find our J's J competitively priced with your LFS, if they even handle it. Joe's Juice (http://www.theculturedreef.com/joesjuice.htm)

I'd say the sand bed and LR were big storers of detritus, supplying the nitrates. It had probably been building up for a year without being disturbed when I got the tank, and there is always plenty of white detritus coming out of the sand when it's stirred. Also, I have no snails - will that help at all?
I think you are correct on the sand bed and LR holding detritus. If you go with a DSB in the future tank (4" minimum), then you will add a clean-up crew. The clean-up crew will include snails of several types. Here is a link to my tank thread which will help you understand much of what you need to know - Amphibious' 135 Reef (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef.html)

My boyfriend thought I was insane for spending $200 on a rock... luckily he didn't ask me what it cost until 2 hours after it was all situated.I'll bet he gets what ever he wants regardless of the cost. What good are boyfriends, anyway? :rotfl: :eek:

LIGHTS: Does anyone know whether I should look into buying these lights (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/for/570126098.html)? I wanted 2 x 250-Watt MH, but these are 2 x 175 Watt, and I don't know that they'll be enough to support Anemone / Coral. I also had my heart set on lights w/ night time LEDs... but those lights are only $250 - the fact that it says "retrofit", though, means I can't use them, if I don't have a canopy, right?
You are correct about having to have a hood to mount the retros. Too many beginners think the brighter the MHs the better. Most of them buy insane (there's that word again) lights and wind up burning corals or having the bleach out. I would say start with 175 watt MHs with 2 110 watt VHO actinic florescent. You are going to be able to keep any coral you will likely run into and the anemone will be fine, too.

Hope this helps.

Dick

I would say start with 175 watt MHs with 2 110 watt VHO actinic florescent.

Well - I don't see the option for 175 very often - I usually see either 150 or 250... so you think I should go with the 150 or search out some 175s?

Also, I no longer have three cardinals. I came home from my brother's soccer game to this:
YouTube - Cleaner Shrimp Steals Arrow Crab's Dinner

I'm looking through your thread right now - your advice on the drilled PVC pipe to support the LR - BRILLIANT. I tried to push most of my live rock all the way down to the bottom surface of the tank, but that idea is so much better.

Also, is the high fin blenny more difficult to keep than a lawnmower blenny? It's a lot more attractive. That's for sure... not that I don't like my little guy. :P

he Nitrate continues to build up because there isn't anaerobic conditions necessary to convert the Nitrate to Nitrogen gas, the final stage in the Nitrogen cycle.

But can't that anaerobic bacteria colonize elsewhere?

I think, under the circumstances, if you can't find 175s, I'd go to the 250s instead of down to the 150s. The 250s will burn more energy and create more heat. You may have to be very watchful with placement of corals near the top of LR. Place them low and move them up as they acclimate to the light.

Thank you for the accolades on my LR placement. Doing the LR off the sand like that allows for circulation under the LR and less chance for dead areas.

The Randall's high fin goby is easy to keep as long as he can find his own hiding place. They are very shy/cautious in the beginning. When settled in, they will hang at the mouth of their cave and venture out for food or to defend their home. They are really nice reef inhabitants, in my humble opinion.

But can't that anaerobic bacteria colonize elsewhere?
Anaerobic bacteria require oxygen depleted areas not found in canister filters, wet/dry filters or anywhere there is sufficient dissolved oxygen to support aerobic bacteria. A DSB of 4" minimum will provide that condition in the lower 1" or 2". If provided with the correct fauna a DSB is a great way to eliminate Nitrate.

Dick

if you can't find 175s, I'd go to the 250s instead of down to the 150s.

Is there another light that you would recommend I use aside from MH that would support full coral / anemone growth?

A DSB of 4" minimum will provide that condition in the lower 1" or 2".

I recall reading somewhere that anaerobic bacteria also forms deep in LR?

Also, my sand is black - it looks like live black sand is hard to find - and I don't even know if my sand is suitable for all of the sand sifting critters, though I'm pretty sure it's made of coral. Have you ever seen suitable black sand for substrates? Should I look into replacing it w/ a more typical sand?

I've heard people proclaim the benefits of T5 lighting. I am not familiar with them but have seen corals and anemones under them seemingly doing fine. The one word of caution I've heard is get a unit that has reflectors for each bulb and also get enough bulbs to cover the width of your tank.

Yes, Anaerobic bacteria is present in the deep layers of LR but, flow of water to those depths is not reliable. That's why some of us rely on a DSB and the worms that crawl through the sand pushing and pulling water with them.

If your black sand is crushed coral, it is part of the problem. Crushed coral traps detritus and food and causes high Nitrates while not promoting the correct living conditions for the worms. It seems the best sand is aragonite oolitic sand. It is oval in shape without sharp edges, which is best suited for the fauna of a functional DSB.

Dick

I have black sand in my 46g bow front, my nitrates are zero. But then I am also growing cheto and other macros. Not to say aragonite is bad, I would go with it now, but this is what I have and it works okay. My tank also has many bristle worms eating all that detritus. I am guessing all the problems with nitrates and detritus are due to your tanks former owners maintaince schedule. If you want to stir your sand you could get a sand sifting goby, a pistol shrimp (my favorite), or many snails/stars. A randalls goby or yellow watcham (what I have in my picture) will pair with a pistol shrimp and live together. Very fun to watch!

You could look into getting a pepermint shrimp to eat the Aptasia. They ate all of it in my tank. I have heard you can also paste over the aptasia and kill it. If you go for the boiling water any boiling water should work since you only want to use a very small amount. If you heat RODI do NOT use the microwave. I have seen it flash boil/explode. Since it is so pure it doesnt boil until impurities are introduced, like a metal spoon, then it all boils at once causing a vigorous reaction.

I think if I get a sand sifting goby, it will starve to death. I've never even seen any copepods or anything like that in the sand or around the rock - only bristleworms. I currently have only one aptasia, and I bought Joe's Juice, so hopefully that takes care of it. I have a feeling that too many shrimps in with my arrow crab may cause problems (for the shrimps). I was thinking of adding snails, though.

If you want a sand sifting goby get one. They adapt very easily to frozen foods such as mysis shrimp. You want to stay away from all gobys with tiny mouths such as the Manderin gobys that require live foods. The Randall's goby in my sig is a good example of what to look for. There are many others.

You are right about the Arrow Crab and the shrimp not being compatible. Snails would be OK as long as you kept the crab fed properly.

The Joe's Juice will definitly take care of the Aptasia. (Thanks)

Dick

I just got your Joe's Juice in the mail, so I can work on getting rid of my single Aptasia pest.

The instructions say to place applicator tip over the center of the oral disc. So I just drop some in the center and add enough to cover the center until there's enough to reach the base of the tentacles? I always second (third, fourth, etc.) guess myself before doing anything new.

Jen,

Shake the devel out of the J's J before opening it. It settles. Then take a small amount in the syringe and feed the Aptasia. Be gentle in placing the JJ in the tentacles so as not to scare it into retracting. Just drop some into the oral disc. He will eat it and twenty minutes from then, there won't be much left and in the morning it will be gone. If you don't give enough to kill it, no worry. when/if it comes back feed again.

Let me know how you do.

Dick

I put a bunch of it on the center, and it immediately started dropping down, and its tentacles seemed to shrink down immediately. Then I went to the Ducks game, and when I came home - poof, it was gone. :D

when I came home - poof, it was gone.

Poof, just like that. :eek:

Jen, it sounds like Dick has answered all of your questions. I would like to say don't worry about the bristle worms, they are good guys! Also about the LED moonlights, if you run across a light fixture that is a good price without them I'd buy it. You can always buy the moonlights separately.

I bought those MH lights from a guy on Craigslist, but when I went to pick them up, it was missing the power cord(s) that run from the ballast to the electrical outlet. I only noticed because I wanted to turn the lights on real quick before I bought them...

I called him and he said he must have left them at the old house, and he'd look for them and he'd know by 2 weeks. I paid for them anyway - $225 (he left the lights at his friend's shop after he moved out of state). I went to Home Depot and they didn't have anything like it...

The company that makes the lights (Cool Touch) is no longer in business. I don't know how I would find replacement cords!

It says that the outlets on the ballast are 120-Volt, and the shape of the cords is different than a standard 3-prong. Soooooo - if he doesn't find the cords at his old house when he comes down in a couple weeks, I'm not sure if there's any other way for me to get them. I should've taken a picture of the outlet on the ballast to post here, but I forgot before I went to work. I took a picture of the model number sticker thing, though.

These are the lights I bought:
48" DUAL METAL HALIDE 175W DUAL 110VHO AQUARIUM REEF LIGHT (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/for/570126098.html)

His description says there is one cord for the MH, and one cord for the VHO, but the light fixture actually has 3 cords coming off of it - looks like each MH has a cord, and the VHO has a cord...

OK - So I would just like to take the time to say that I'm officially retarded...

For a little background, I work in Pharmaceutical QA, but I design/maintain web pages and build/repair computers on the side...

Now this power cord output that I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE--It uses the same freaking power cord that you use for computers/monitors/printers! :doh:

I really feel officially retarded... Especially since I took an extended lunch break to go show the ballast to show someone, and they pointed out what it was almost immediately. I didn't even notice on my own!

/sigh

So I haven't verified that my new $225 lights work yet, but when I get home from work today I can plug them in to one of my 10 or so extra power cords to verify their functionality. :blush:

Also, I'm still in no rush to use them on my tank - (1) My friend's boyfriend is going to build me a canopy to mount them in, and (2) My nitrates are still too high and I don't want to deal with an algae bloom.

Speaking of algae blooms - are they actually harmful to anything or just unsightly?

Oh yeah - and my LFS has some grape caulerpa for sale, which I couldn't use UNTIL I got new lights (right?), but I was thinking of adding some the same day I start using my new lights... in the main DT. Thoughts?

Since I'm going to have my canopy custom-built, are there any features I should strive for?

E.g., Is a taller one like the one shown here (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/for/610711534.html) going to be easier for me to work with than one that looks like a "typical" one, more like this (http://www.aquariumguys.com/sedona-black-canopy3.html)?

I like the looks of the shorter one better, but the taller one seems like it would give me more room to work and make the lights farther away from the water, reducing the heat transferred to the water.

In addition to that--the main design question--is there anything else I should keep in mind? E.g., making sure I have spaces on the ends cut out for cooling fans... Things like that?

:lol: on the connector cord. Isn't it funny how you don't see something like that because you aren't looking for it?

:o

My tank is 85.1°F right now!

It's 10:30 P.M. Room temperature is 79.3°F.

I just verified the water temp w/ the mercury thermometer too (other is digital).

The lights turned off an hour before I expected. I went over to investigate, and the lights looked normal - the timer had actually turned them off - not sure what happened. Then, I took a quick look at the temperature - and it was high! My tank is always a bit high - was 78°F - 79°F before I added 4 MaxiJet 1200's after that it was always around 80°F.

There didn't appear to be a power surge, but when I took a look at my dual-pak skimmer, only one side was making bubbles, so something happened to one of the motors, I think. It may have been overheating, although it didn't <i>feel</i> warm when I took it out.

It says the high today in my city was 86°F, with a low of 46°F, and it (yahoo weather) says that it's currently 54°F outside (feels like 70 - I think I may have fallen into the twilight zone - I feel all discombobulated--I just asked my roommate what temperature he thought it was outside, and he guessed 75°F).

I opened up the accela powerhead that came with the bak-pak, and it didn't appear dirty or clogged anywhere. I'm too scared to try to plug it back in right now, though. Maybe tomorrow. I'm also scared to put a fan over the water, since I don't have any DI water on-hand to replace the evaporation, but if I see the temperature actually rise I will.

Hope this is just temporary.

P.S. I felt the heater, but it didn't feel warm to me - unplugged it anyway - lid is open on top, but it's still holding a steady 84.9°F for now.

Any change this morning, Jen?

Hey Jen, how's the tank temp??? My tank is always a few degrees warmer than room temperature. I like my Koralia pumps because they draw few watts and produce very little heat.

are the new lights on the tank yet ?? there are only a few things that would drive the temp up that far. lights, pumps, and heaters.

Eek I'm so sorry- for some reason I didn't know there were responses to my thread!

So - my tank is still hot. It was 85 point something yesterday when I came home - with a water change, I lowered it almost 4 degrees, but didn't finish replacing all the water, because I didn't want to change the temperature that drastically. This morning when I left for work, the tank was 80.2 degrees F.

I haven't put the new lights on the tank yet because of the high nitrate level, but if all works out, I'll be able to buy a 180-gallon tank w/ a chiller from a guy on Craigslist for $900 on Monday/Tuesday. Only problem is - someone else called just after me all excited to buy it, whereas I was more hesitant because budgeting that money out was difficult for me, and I didn't know until last night that I would be able to budget enough out of my paycheck to buy it. The tank's beautiful, though. If I'm able to buy it, I will be incredibly excited. I left him a voicemail this morning telling him that I would have the money as of tomorrow, and that I have two friends lined up to help me pick it up on either Monday or Tuesday.

Cross your fingers for me!

If I get this tank, I'm going to set it up right, with appropriate sand and amp's cool pvc stand idea for the rocks.

Here are some pictures of my critters:

Arrow crab eating a dead cardinal fish:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/arrowcrab_29mar08.jpg

Lawnmower blenny:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/blenny_29mar08.jpg

Cardinal fish (cleaner shrimp, sebae clown). This was the last cardinal fish, but he died the other day. He seemed very healthy, too! He was the only one that was eating all types of food, including flake and pellets - his other buddies were only eating brine shrimp:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/cardinalfish_29mar08.jpg

Green chromis - I have a total of 7:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/chromis_29mar08.jpg

Firefish Gobies:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/firefishgobies_29mar08.jpg

Purple Firefish Goby:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/purplefirefishgoby_29mar08.jpg

Will add one more picture in a separate post due to the 6-pic limit.

Not pictured: Fire shrimp, maroon clown, false percula clown, royal gramma

Last pic:

Cleaner Shrimp - Francois, my favorite. He hasn't eaten in 2 days, and he molted last night. I don't recall him not eating before/after any other molt, so I hope he'll be OK:
http://whitenebula.com/photos/pets/francois_29mar08.jpg

I just got done doing the happy dance - the guy told me I could have the aquarium. I don't have it in my possession yet, but if one of my friends with a truck can help me pick it up on Sunday the 27th, that's the magical pick-up date. I'm excited.
A picture of it is attached.

Well, yeah, I guess. Congrats big time!!!:dance::jester::clap::w000t::cool!::yikes:

Dick

I don't like the clear back, but I get the feeling that it's hard to color/paint the back of an acrylic aquarium (since you always have the choice of blue, black, or clear when you buy). Is there anything I can do besides add a paper background behind it, does anyone know?

I can't believe I'm getting that aquarium for only $900 - I love Craigslist!

You can paint an Acrylic tank with Acrylic Latex paint. That's what I did with my clear back Acrylic tank.


http://www.theculturedreef.com/Dsc_0001.jpg

I used the same paint on the stand. This pic will also give you a reminder of the LR stands. :agree:

Hehe - thanks. :D My biggest worry now is being able to find flat rock.

Good deal! I was just thinking, a couple months ago you were wondering what to do with this inherited tank and now you've bought a 180!

Haha - I know, right? I'm fully obsessive in whatever task I undertake, though. I feel that this hobby is probably more useful and enjoyable than my most recent obsession of buying hundreds of dollars of makeup and skincare products each month. :P ...although I'm not going to sacrifice ALL of the prettiness for the fishies.

Update on two of my critters: My cleaner shrimp is A-OK, swimming all around the tank and eating hungrily. However, my royal gramma just up and disappeared. :(

I'm very excited to go get the tank - luckily the weather for the last couple of days hasn't been too hot and the tank has been around 80 - 83 degrees.

I know I only inherited the tank, but most of the time I've had it I've been frustrated at its limitations. I can't wait to start up the next one and use better substrate and actually have a sump/refugium! This freshwater stand has been the bane of my existance. Heh.

My boyfriend insinuated that I could keep BOTH of my tanks. I wonder how likely it would be to be able to maintain both of them, plumbed into the same sump.

Then I could get the pufferfish I've always wanted in the old 80-gallon. It's tempting. :D

Hmmm, I hear the wheels turning. Better be careful or you won't have any "pretty" budget left!

OK I have the new tank here, and I have no idea how to plumb it together. It has a chiller, in-sump pump, in-sump protein skimmer, and UV sterilizer.

I want to find example plumbing diagrams. Any pointers?

I know that some of the things were hooked up to eachother, like I think that the UV sterilizer and the chiller were plumbed together... I don't know much more than that. The tank has two black cylinders on either end of it associated with the circulation/filtration.

the 2 larger holes are going to be your drains that go to the sump, and the smaller holes are going to be your return lines coming in from the sump. i do not run a chiller so someone else will have to help you out there, but i would think that you would run your chiller with a separate pump but i am by no means sure of this.

OK so my setup appears to be VERY similar to the diagram here (http://www.vividaquariums.com/filtergeneral.asp), except I don't have a second pump or a spray bar.

My tank has two places for aquarium water back in, though, and the one pump has a T-fitting on the output. Therefore, it looks like I can either (a) run the first line directly back to the tank, and the second line through the UV sterilizer, chiller, and back to the tank or (b) run the first line through the chiller to the tank, and the second line through the UV sterilizer to the tank.

I don't know which way is better, but I would think (b) would provide more even return flows on each side. I am pretty sure the previous owner had the UV sterilizer in-line with the chiller, though, so I don't know if there is an advantage to that.

My biggest worry now is being able to find flat rock.

I am having NO luck with the flat rock search. I think I may have to skip on trying out the pvc stand method.

Also, the (pompous) LFS owner told me that I shouldn't try the deep sand bed method, because it's difficult to maintain.

AND - I need to buy aragonite now. Does anyone know of a good place to buy it for a good price? I have no idea how much I need, either, but this 180-Gallon tank seems HUGE to me!

Here is a calculator Sand Bed Calculator (http://www.garf.org/calculators/SandBedCalculator.asp) to help you figure out how much sand you need. I have never used the garf grunge so I can't comment about it. Check The Cultured Reef Index (http://www.theculturedreef.com) for your sand. They are a TR sponsor and had a sand shipping trial going on. Try Marco Rocks The finest aquarium rock available, base rock, live rock, reef rock, marco rock, reef tank saltwater fish, live corals, Marco rocks, Fiji live rock, Tonga Live rock (http://www.marcorocks.com) for the flat rock. They have great rock and are a TR sponsor.

Ooh, thanks - my hope is restored!

I'll look into buying flat rock from them after I get my tank all plumbed together.

In the meantime, it's 1:00 a.m., and my 80-gallon is 89°F. I floated a frozen bottle of water in the tank, and i had no effect.

I have this chiller sitting here now, and it would be nice to hook it up!

According to the chiller manual, it can be hooked up to the return flow from my canister filter or hooked up with a separate pump.

According to the chiller specs (http://www.hydrosreef.com/pacific-coast-cl650-14-hp-inline-ch65014.html), the minimum flow rate is 600 gph, and the maximum if 1000 gph.

My canister filter (http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/gr/aaprproquaticsc.htm) reports to only be capable of 240 gph, so according to the chiller specs, I can't just run my return line from that filter through the chiller.

My pump (http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/itemdetail.asp?itemid=WP-KSP20000A) outputs 2000 gph, which is above the maximum of 1000 gph for the chiller. (That explains why the pump had a T-fitting on its output.)

Therefore, if I want to hook up this chiller now, I need to use the pump with the t-fitting on its output to reduce it by half, right? And then I have to figure out what to do with its other output line... Actually, I also need to figure out how to run a line from the tank to the pump in the first place... so I'll have to buy some tubing and something to filter the intake hose so fish don't get sucked in... But is that much pull going to be too strong to have in the main DT anyhow? Will fish just get suck to the intake? If so, I will have to work with a sump as well, with the pump in the sump...

I have a 30-gallon rubbermaid I could use as a temporary sump, but how will I get the water from the DT into the sump? :confused:

Therefore, if I want to hook up this chiller now, I need to use the pump with the t-fitting on its output to reduce it by half, right? And then I have to figure out what to do with its other output line... Actually, I also need to figure out how to run a line from the tank to the pump in the first place... so I'll have to buy some tubing and something to filter the intake hose so fish don't get sucked in... But is that much pull going to be too strong to have in the main DT anyhow? Will fish just get suck to the intake? If so, I will have to work with a sump as well, with the pump in the sump...

I have a 30-gallon rubbermaid I could use as a temporary sump, but how will I get the water from the DT into the sump?

Oh how I wish you lived closer. My specialty in life is helping women in distress. :love!: I hope we can work you through this dilemma.

You have me really confused at the moment. Can you take some pictures of the 80's plumbing system? The T on the discharge of the pump should have a ball valve on the two sides that direct water to your chiller and tank so you can regulate the flow.

I want to say more but pictures would help me a great deal.

Dick

The 80's plumbing system is nothing but a canister filter with an in and an out flow...

The pump I am referring to came with the 180, and was previously used to: Return water to one side of the tank, and return water to the other side of the tank through the UV & chiller. It was submerged in the sump and just taking water from there.

Here is a picture of the pump. I don't think there are any ball valves anywhere...
http://whitenebula.com/tr/P1010164a.jpg
(I think that other thing next to it is part of the protein skimmer.)

It looks like it just has a check valve to T-fitting. The previous owners probably didn't have to regulate the flow, with one line running through the chiller / uv and the other headed straight out.

To use it as a temporary fix for my 80-gallon, though, I would definitely have to regulate the flow... because I have nowhere else for the other 1000 gph to go.

Here's a picture of my 80-gallon right now - I think the chiller may fit in the center compartment. The left side has the canister filter in it, and the right side is a bunch of shelves - only power strips are in there right now.
http://whitenebula.com/tr/P1010167a.jpg

Here's a picture of my 180-gallon. I'm going to paint the back black.
http://whitenebula.com/tr/P1010169a.jpg

Hi Jen,

I am going to let someone else help you with the plumbing because that is my weak spot. But, I wanted to say, NICE TANK!

Thanks! I'm excited - in particular, I'm excited at the prospect of someone finally figuring out how to get it set up - haha.

Next I just need to get my hands on 350 pounds of sand.

Hi Jen,

Thanks for the pics, they will help. Getting water from the 80 to the chiller with out sucking up a fish or two will require an overflow box. Personally I don't like them but, they serve a purpose in situations like this. Next, you need a sump of some kind. The tub next to the 80 will probably do. Looking at the picture of the pump, I would do the following. Because you have way more flow than you need, I would add a T to one side (left or right) of the return lines and drop that line back into the sump. Put a valve on all three lines. By adjusting the ball valves, you can get the flow you need to the chiller, other side of the tank and the excess will be directed right back into the sump. Does that make any sense?

Dick

Isn't adding an overflow box to a glass aquarium incredibly difficult? Requiring drilling? It sounds to me like my most reasonable solution is to get the 180 up and running as soon as I possibly can.

Here is my "To Do List":

1) Paint the back of the aquarium.
2) Figure out the plumbing and hook it up.
3) Fill with tap water and let the circulation run for 48 hours to check for leaks.
4) Empty the system.
5) Add 300 pounds of aragonite.
6) Buy some tonga shelf rocks from marcorocks.
7) Build PVC stands to go under the rocks.
8) Add 50 pounds of live sand.
9) Add the shelf rocks/PVC and purchased, cured live rock and fill with salt water.
10) Let the live sand cure for ~3 weeks.
(Add food to the tank during this time for the sand critters?)

Things I'm interested in getting:
1) Refugium - then I'd have to figure out how to plumb that in, too. The sump that came with my tank doesn't have a divided area for one, and doesn't appear to have room for me to add a divided area, since the skimmer and pump take up the whole bottom of it. I really want a refugium, though. I don't want to mimic the nitrate problems I had before w/ my 80-gallon. I wonder if I should add a separate refugium or replace the sump with a divided partition sump so they can be in the same container. I don't know enough about plumbing to make that decision on my own.
2) Refractometer. I don't trust my hydrometer.
3) RO/DI system. I'm currently buying salt water from the LFS by the gallon.
4) Water top off system.
(If I add a water top off system or a refugium under the tank, I may not have room for the chiller under there, and then I'd have to figure out how to plumb it in outside the tank and slightly around the corner. I know the chiller is not supposed to be under the tank, but there are cooling fans inside of that area that are supposed to compensate for that.)
5) Monitor/computer system that lets me view my tank parameters via the internet. One can dream.

Besides giving off heat chillers tend to be noisy too. You might find that having it around the corner is better.

Thanks. Maybe, but around the corner isn't really more out of the way than than the tank, and the tank stand has sound insulation installed, so we'll see.

Wow, I can't believe I've missed two pages of this project already. Looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you. I'll toss in my $.02 on the chiller. It sounds like you're considering putting it in the stand? I'd have to strongly reccomend against it. A chiller is a heat pump, and generates significant ammounts of heat. It requires good circulation of cool (room temperature) air to be effective. It will heat the air in the stand very quickly and cease to be very effective.

I only have one return, and so have my chiller and UV plumbed inline with my return, but I'm thinking in your situation, you'll want the chiller on one side and the UV on the other, or one return will be considerably more restricted than the other. A pair of ball valves could help even it out (you"ll probably want them anyway, just to tune the flow), but I thik you'll be better off with one device on each return.

I had previously read that they shouldn't go in the stand because I know they output heat, BUT, the only reason I'm considering it now is because that's how it was set up in the previous owner's house, and they have cooling fans blowing through the stand. The previous owner said that the chiller was hardly ever on, too, and he lives in the same environment I do, so I figured I could give it a try.

Thanks for the advice on putting one on each return line... Before your post I was considering putting them on the same line again, because I figure that much resistance on that line will bring it down to a lower flow rate than the line w/ nothing on it, but that may be good in optimizing the cooling effects of the chiller - bringing it down closer to 600 gph instead of up at 1000 gph... although really, it's hard to figure out how much is going where without any flow meters. My brother suggested to put one on each line for the same reasoning you did, and he is who I'm depending on to essentially figure out all of the plumbing and get it running. He's very handy, but not an aquarium expert by any means, which is why I'm asking so many questions about it here to get us some guidance.

ANOTHER plumbing question:

If I add a refugium as a separate, 10-gallon tank, what's the best way to move water between the sump and the refugium?

the bigger the fuge ... the better. i prefer using drilled tanks (drilled up high) for my fuges, it makes it really easy to plumb in. let me see if i can get a quick pic of mine for you. brb

hope these help some ... of course it helps if the fuge is a little higher than the sump for gravity feeding, but i think you can get the just of MY setup.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/lReef_lKeeper/fuge.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/lReef_lKeeper/fuge2.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/lReef_lKeeper/fuge3.jpg

OK I see... but do you have a pump in the sump dedicated to returning water to the refugium?

Gravity is really the only way to go if they're going to be searate tanks instead of a cobo sump/fuge. Dont even consider complicated schemes using pumps and siphons, as something somewhere will fail, and you'll be totaly screwed. I don't recall the size of yur sump, but if you can get someone to drill the 10 for you and set it on top of your sump, you're golden. Then, you can just direct some of the overflow water into the 10, through the fuge, then out the drilled hole(s) and into the sump.

my pump returns water to the frag tank above the fuge, the frag tank drains into the fuge and the fuge drains into the sump. it is the same sump that my DT uses. the return pump for the frag tank/fuge is a mag7. i like low flow in the fuge for more contact time with the macro, thus more nutrient export.

but I'm thinking in your situation, you'll want the chiller on one side and the UV on the other
Thanks! As of tonight, that looks like exactly what we will be trying to do.

It sounds like you're considering putting it in the stand? I'd have to strongly reccomend against it.
the bigger the fuge ... the better
OK thanks - my plan now is to get the biggest fuge I can, take the chiller out and plumb it behind the tank (around the corner), and just leave enough room underneath to also add an auto water top off system.

I notice now that in the sump, I could easily add a divider (there are slots for one) and make enough room to convert a portion of it into a refugium by changing the connecting hose from the skimmer's pump from a straight hose to a U-shaped piece, but it wouldn't be as large as it could be if I were to buy a separate fuge, so I am still leaning towards the separate fuge for now.

Then, you can just direct some of the overflow water into the 10, through the fuge, then out the drilled hole(s) and into the sump.
of course it helps if the fuge is a little higher than the sump for gravity feeding
Thanks! The images were perfect! I'm going to try to emulate that and incorporate the split in the overflow water, directing some to the fuge.

Thanks everyone for being so helpful! And I am nowhere near done asking questions, LOL.

Edit: Speaking of questions, here's one more for tonight:
I bought 2 cans of this paint in gloss black tonight to spray the back of my tank. Does anyone think that using this particular paint is not a good idea?
RustOleum.com (http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=178)

Oh look - another question already!

Tonight I bought a 10-foot piece of 2-inch white PVC pipe to use as rock stands.

Then, I was just reading this website (http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/liverockberlinsetups/qt/qt_raiserocksup.htm) about raising rocks off the substrate, and it says to use 1/2 to 3/4 inch Schedule 80 (gray) PVC.

So, I just want to double-check. Am I going to be OK w/ the white 2-inch PVC?

Should be fine with the white. They gray is just rated for a higher PSI inside the walls.

Using the 2" is actually better because the wider diameter is more stable. I'm pretty sure you've read my tank thread but, incase you haven't here's the link - http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef.html Scroll down the first page to find a picture of my LR stands. I use 1 1/2" standard sch 40 PVC. Your 2" is fine.

While I respect the people at about.com, they seem to think they know everything there is to know about everything, If you've broused their site.

Scroll down farther and you will see a picture of my plumbing and sump/refugium.

Dick

The paint should be fine, just keep it out of the tank. Also, make sure the glass is as clean as possible before you paint it. Scrape it, wash it, rub it down with rubbing alcohol or acitone, just make sure there's nothing at all on the glass to get the best adhesion.

Using the 2" is actually better because the wider diameter is more stable.

Perfect. Thanks - Yes, I've definitely seen your thread, and that's still what I'm aiming on modeling mine after. My brother was wanting to buy 3" pipe, for even more stability, but they didn't have any anyhow. I thought that seemed a little large for my taste, though.

Also, make sure the glass is as clean as possible before you paint it.

Thanks - I'm a little scared to scrape it, because this is my first experience with acrylic, and I'm scurred, but I'll definitely use IPA to wipe it down and make sure nothing's stuck on it.

P.S. Love your sig pic.

OH, forgot it was acrylic. In that case definitely skip the acetone, unless you'd like to melt the back of your tank :) You could certainly use something like 2500 grit wet/dry sandpaper, since you're going to paint it anyway. That should create a good surface for the paint to bond to.

I know a ot of people use Krylon: Products: Fusion for Plastic® (http://www.krylon.com/products/fusion_for_plastic/) with good success.

Wait - do I really need to sand it to give it a good surface? That idea shares sht sh*t outta me. I figured since plastic is listed as a compatible surface I could just spray it on!

The paint I bought seems equivalent to that, based on description anyhow, so hopefully it works out OK for me!

No, you don't have to, it would just be an alternative to cleaning it really well. the back of the tank hopefuly won't get much wear, so it should be just fine without sanding.

You don't need to sand it. Just clean it real good with an acrylic cleaner and paint.

Dick

wow, thats alot to read, just like phursty said, i dont even know if ive seen this thread in action, which asks the question if ive even said hello! umm, hello!

Im going to watch this space! :eek:

I read somewhere else today that a good way to feed water into the refugium is from one of the skimmer outputs. That sounds like a good idea to me - I'll probably look into that instead of splitting the overflow drain tubing (and still drain the refugium w/ gravity into the sump).

One of my brother's friends maintains salt water tanks for a living, but he's so busy that I haven't successfully gotten him to help me out with my tank yet - either of them. He may be coming over late Sunday night, though, to give my brother and me some advice and look everything over. That would be nice. :D

clean it real good with an acrylic cleaner
Oh great - now I have to go find acrylic cleaner. It never ends. :eek:

i dont even know if ive seen this thread in action
Yeah well, in your defense, it probably hasn't actually been going on very long--I'm just kicking out the questions rapid-styles. :P

umm, hello!
Hi! :whazzup:

I read somewhere else today that a good way to feed water into the refugium is from one of the skimmer outputs. That sounds like a good idea to me - I'll probably look into that instead of splitting the overflow drain tubing (and still drain the refugium w/ gravity into the sump).

One of my brother's friends maintains salt water tanks for a living, but he's so busy that I haven't successfully gotten him to help me out with my tank yet - either of them. He may be coming over late Sunday night, though, to give my brother and me some advice and look everything over. That would be nice. :D


Oh great - now I have to go find acrylic cleaner. It never ends. :eek:

Personally, I would run some of the overflow water through the refugium. A refugium should be looked on as a first line of defense to suck out excess Nitrate and Phosphate through plant uptake. Chaetomorpha, Gracelaria and other macro algae are used to remove those substances and others. Your skimmer does the same thing in a different way. So, the macro algae in your refugium may not grow as well. The macro algae becomes home to pods where they reproduce so, you want a nice large growing colony. When it grows too large you simply take some out and give to other reefers. They're are always reefers looking for macro algae. Especially if it's free.

You are going to want an Acrylic cleaner for the outside front when the tank is up and running. Might as well get it now. Read the label make sure it says "For Acrylic" or something to that effect. You are right, by the way, it never ends.

Dick

Actually, the tank came with an acrylic cleaner/polish that's applied the same way as any glass cleaner, but it says it leaves a protective coating. I was going to avoid that product for this due to coating/residue.

And if you're right about the water from the tank being more desirable then the people from about.com are totally off-base again. :silly:

Update.

In my 80-gallon tank, my arrow crab died two days ago. He was very stressed out from the move of the 80-gallon, where we had to empty it and refill it in one day, and he just never recovered.

In other news:

I (well, my brother and I, and by my brother and I, I mostly just mean my brother) hooked everything up last night and decided to do a water test.

http://whitenebula.com/tr/fillingup_lights.jpg

The lights that came with my new tank weren't sufficient for growing coral, and I still had that 48" MH fixture I bought on craigslist, so I added that to the hood, too.

I'm hoping that's enough light to support some SPS corals once I get it up and running. What do you guys think?

http://whitenebula.com/tr/almostfull.jpg

Uh oh - found a leak!
http://whitenebula.com/tr/crack.jpg
Not sure if that bulkhead came cracked, or if we cracked it when attaching the return line, but either way, I have to go grab a new one at the LFS. In the meantime, my brother switched that bulkhead with the bulkhead on top of the overflow box connecting the return flow outputs... The leak is much less critical there, since it just leaks into the overflow box...

Don't worry stand, I'll save you!
http://whitenebula.com/tr/catch.jpg

Pretty UV Sterilizer powered up:
http://whitenebula.com/tr/uv.jpg

Don't have a refugium yet, but tried to plan for one by splitting this drain line. Not enough water was entering it, but we had a small piece to place in the pipe to back up the drain line a bit that we haven't tried yet. Thought we'd try it unobstructed first.
http://whitenebula.com/tr/split.jpg

Continued in next post, since I have one more image.

Update (Cont.)

Protein skimmer and pump powered up.
http://whitenebula.com/tr/sump.jpg

The protein skimmer definitely didn't output very many bubbles... The impeller on the pump seemed OK upon inspection. Is that normal when a skimmer is hooked up to tap water?

We turned the chiller on. My brother noted that the flow coming out of the return line that went through the skimmer was noticably less than the flow coming out of the return line that went through the UV sterilizer. The side with the chiller, though, was also the one with a broken bulk head on the return line, so I'm not sure how much that had to do with it.

The room temperature in the house was 78°F, and the temperature of the water was 73°F. We set the chiller to 65°F, and when it didn't appear to be working, we set it to 70°F. The temperature of the water actually raised to 74°F during the hour or two we had everything running. The chiller made a very loud noise occassionally, which we thought was it shutting off, but according to the display, the chiller was still running. Either way, the chiller is supposed to stay on until target temperature is reached, and it's supposed to chill the water, so I hope my chiller isn't totally ineffective! Is there somewhere I can get those serviced? A typical HVAC place for instance?

You'll have to refresh my memory on what the lights are.

Skimmers do not work properly in fresh water due to the difference in surface tension in FW and SW.

What's the power of the chiller, and does it have adequate airflow? I'd imagine an HVAC technician could troubleshoo to some large degree, since it's just an air conditioner with the cooling coils in the water.

You'll have to refresh my memory on what the lights are.
I put what I knew about the lights in some text edits to the image.
Came with new tank: 72" w/ 2 x T12 VHO: 1 white, 1 actinic. (Not sure what wattage.)
Bought previously: 48" fixture w/ 2 x T12 VHO: 1 white, 1 actinic, + 2 x 175W MH

Skimmers do not work properly in fresh water due to the difference in surface tension in FW and SW.
Phew

What's the power of the chiller, and does it have adequate airflow? I'd imagine an HVAC technician could troubleshoo to some large degree, since it's just an air conditioner with the cooling coils in the water.
1/4 HP, and we had the stand open while we were using it, so it should have had adequate airflow.

72" VHOs are 160w each. 46 1/2" - 48" are 110w each.

SPS should be fine from mid-level on up to the top. maybe some lower light SPS even lower in the tank.

Was the chiller putting out any heat?

SPS should be fine from mid-level on up to the top. maybe some lower light SPS even lower in the tank.
Thanks!

Was the chiller putting out any heat?
Yep!

How long did you have it running?

I'm pretty bad with keeping track of time, but I'd say for 2 - 4 hours.

I would definitely think you should have seen a change for the good in that time period definitely shouldn't have gone up. The chiller could be low on freon or whatever refrigerant it uses depending on age.

I would definitely think you should have seen a change for the good in that time period definitely shouldn't have gone up. The chiller could be low on freon or whatever refrigerant it uses depending on age.

Agreed. Something isn't right.

*Sigh*

That chiller is the main reason I bought the 180-Gallon in the first place.

i would not worry to much about that,right now, unless the lights make the tank seriously overheat.

have you had the lights on yet ?? how hot did the tank water get ??

you would be amazed at what a couple of $5 fans from WalMart can do for you.

i would not worry to much about that,right now, unless the lights make the tank seriously overheat.

My 80-gallon's overheating consistently, which is why I wanted a chiller so badly. My 80-gallon's already been slightly over 90°F mostly because of the weather here, and it's only going to get hotter. My 80-gallon has pretty weak lights, too.

have you had the lights on yet ??
Nope - actually the pump tripped the GFI outlet off twice while we were running it, so we didn't even think to turn the lights on yet. Actually, we haven't gotten the ballasts situated yet so they can be plugged in yet, either.
how hot did the tank water get ??
N/A

you would be amazed at what a couple of $5 fans from WalMart can do for you.
Yeah, I just need to get some DI water to keep on hand to do manual top-off, because the water's evaporating pretty quickly even without any fans being on.

ok, just wanted to make sure that you knew that a chiller is not the only means of cooling a tank.

My 80-gallon's overheating consistently, which is why I wanted a chiller so badly. My 80-gallon's already been slightly over 90°F mostly because of the weather here, and it's only going to get hotter. My 80-gallon has pretty weak lights, too.

that does not sound like a light issue to me, is the heater stuck on ?? what type of pump is in the water ??

ok, just wanted to make sure that you knew that a chiller is not the only means of cooling a tank.
I tried melting frozen bottles of water on top of the tank, too - didn't even knock it down half a degree.
that does not sound like a light issue to me, is the heater stuck on ??
Heater's been unplugged since the first time I found the tank above 85°F. I think I inherited this tank in August, and the tank was always at an even 80°F with just the heater plugged in, with hardly any variation. Once the room temperature started rising, the tank temp started rising too (of course). I came home on a hot day to find the room at something like 85°F and the tank at something like 86°F. It's consistently a degree or so above room temperature, and our air conditioner doesn't work.
what type of pump is in the water ??
It has a canister filter, 4 maxi-jet 1200's which are on 2 at a time w/ a wavemaker, and 2 small accela pumps (whatever came with the BakPak dual pak protein skimmer). They're probably slightly weaker than the maxi-jets.

I found out that running all of this equipment on the same circuit isn't working out. Delay of game!

I'm hoping my brother can re-wire things for me - maybe switch what circuit the outlet near the aquarium is on. Having both aquariums turned on is already causing problems (and I haven't even turned on the lights yet).

I'm going with DSB in the 180, and I've ordered the aragonite for the bottom layer, but can someone recommend a good place for me to buy live sand to seed it?

I wouldn't worry about LS, just throw in a cup or 2 of sand from your old tank as long as there aren't any problems with it, and between that and the LR you put in the tank you will have a sandbed working in no time.

i agree, LS is not really very LIVE. i mean it is stuck in a bag and shipped. then it sits on a store shelf until someone buys it. i may have some anaerobic bacteria in it, but when you add it to the tank and turn the lights on ... it will probably die off because anaerobic bacteria needs low oxygen levels and low light levels (which is why it is found in the lower level of a DSB).
just throw in a cup or two from the other tank to seed it.

I second that advice. Just load up on the aragonite, seed with some live sand, use established live rock and you will be good to go in just weeks. I just set up a 38 gallon tank and did the same. I used ONE scoop of live sand from a friends tank and within a month, I have spaghetti worms, and other worms in the bed. I have pods galore from the rock, and even have some smallish bristle worms cleaning the nooks and crannies.

Personally, when setting up the new tank this summer, I'm going will all base rock, all sterile aragonite sand, and doing the "Seeding" thing again. You get a neat, clean start, free of most pests, and you can use friends for adding small starfish, pods, mysid etc. therefore making your OWN little eco system.

Dave

just throw in a cup or 2 of sand from your old tank

seed with some live sand

My old tank had black crushed coral, so that's not really an option, and I don't have any friends who have salt water tanks.

then it sits on a store shelf until someone buys it

When I say I want to buy live rock, I don't mean I want to buy one of those bags from PetCo that supposedly have live bacteria in them... I want live rock that is cared for and shipped the same way that live sand is. I want worms and what-not to help stir the sand...

I don't have any problems finding live rock, so why does it seem so tough to find live sand?

What do you guys think about using something like this for a refugium (Clear Rubbermaid Container (http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/product/product.jhtml?prodId=HPProd100210))? I figure it'll be a lot cheaper than finding a small acrylic tank... For the lights I could probably just mount them to the top of the stand...

A lot of those rubbermaid products are soft sided and will bow and possibly fail causing you great amounts of grief. You want a more rigid plastic for a sump or a glass tank that you glue partitions into.

On the LS issue...When you get your 180 up and running I will ship you a quart of LS out of my system for the cost of shipping. Plus, I'll separate out some LS worms and bag them so they live through the transport. Just acclimate them like any live critter and your sand bed will be live in short order. Most of the "live" things needed will come off your LR anyway but, this will insure you get a good start.

Dick

On the LS issue...When you get your 180 up and running I will ship you a quart of LS out of my system for the cost of shipping. Plus, I'll separate out some LS worms and bag them so they live through the transport. Just acclimate them like any live critter and your sand bed will be live in short order. Most of the "live" things needed will come off your LR anyway but, this will insure you get a good start.

Dick

if you end up needing more (which i doubt because Dick is so generous) give me a shout, i will do the same.

A lot of those rubbermaid products are soft sided and will bow and possibly fail causing you great amounts of grief. You want a more rigid plastic for a sump or a glass tank that you glue partitions into.

Thanks - don't need to partition this one, though, since I have a sump and want to add a separate refugium. Actually, my sump is set up to be partitioned, but I'm not happy w/ the small size the refugium would be if I used the pre-set partition. Plus, I'd have to modify the setup of the skimmer/pump to squeeze it in. I want it to be acrylic so that I can drill it and put a gravity drain out of the side of it. I just don't know where to get a cheap acrylic tank yet (which is why I was hoping a clear rubbermaid would do the trick), and I'm not sure how large I want it to be and still leave room for an auto top-off system.

I will ship you a quart of LS out of my system for the cost of shipping.

if you end up needing more (which i doubt because Dick is so generous) give me a shout, i will do the same.

Thanks guys!
:thanks: :clap:

Man I'm glad I found this place.

Wow, some of the greatest minds in hobby helping in some one on one time. Sweet effort, even i feel humbled by these guys & thats saying something! ;)

Which is why I'm glad I found this place. Teehee. :D

The people here are nothing but awesome!

Oh no! The weather has been very mellow lately, but my fishies and I are in for a rough week:
http://whitenebula.com/tr/weather.jpg

definately add a couple of fans to the tank !! i would spend the $1o or so at wally world and be safe rather than sorry.

GET THE AC FIXED !!

OK thanks - I have some small fans I can use - I just need to go buy some DI water to use to top off the system, too.

The good news is that my boyfriend's parents are going to buy us a whole new AC... The bad news is we have to clean the whole house first (including my boyfriend emptying out and organizing an entire wall full of boxes that have been there for 4 years), and we might actually finish that by this weekend... this hot weekend...

Ha! I have boxes in the garage from when we moved 14 years ago!

for some reason it seems like when we move ... not everything gets unpacked !! think it is because of or tanks be redone ??

Naw, it is the farm kid in me that says "I don't need it now but I might some day".

True story: My Grandpa had a auction when he got out of farming at age 75. He had a dry sink in the workshop that someone had paid him to haul off. Grandpa was tickled pink because that old dry sink that he had used to hold paint cans for years fetched $500 at the auction!

i dont know whats scarier, the fact sheol has a boyfriend & my chances are slim or the fact carmies grandfather got $500 smacko's for an old sink..lol

i dont know whats scarier, the fact sheol has a boyfriend & my chances are slim or the fact carmies grandfather got $500 smacko's for an old sink..lol

i would say that your chances are NONE, unless one of you moves to the other side of the PLANET, but even then ... still slim, VERY slim.

$500 for a sink is INSANE!! it better have been solid GOLD.

lmao, well im not moving. Ive got to many old sinks im currently trying to stuff into a container bound for US soil!

A dry sink is a kind of cabinet that was used before people had indoor running water. The cabinet was designed to hold a wash basin and pitcher, the top is recessed maybe 3 - 4 inches.