I am in the process of slowly setting up a 180 gallon reef. I am currenty in the sump design stage and could use some help deciding what direction to go. The only thing set in stone is the return pump which will be a sequence snapper which requires a 2" input.

Right now I am leaning towards using two 20 gallon sumps connected together, one for a fuge and one for skimmer, heater, etc...

Do you see any problem with this idea?

Or any suggestions at all?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Sequence Snapper pump will have about 2,000 gph at your height, maybe more. It's rated at 2400 gph at 0 head. If you divide 2000 by 60, you get 33 1/3 gallons per minute. So, in about 1 minute and 15 seconds your 40 gallons of sump/refugium water is going to be gone, replaced of course by the water returning from your overflow which must be sized to handle 2000 gph. OK, that can be done but, there are other problems with your design. Transferring 2000 gph through two twenty gallon tanks is going to create a rushing river effect. Of course transferring 2000 gph from one 20 to the next presents a problem.

Sumps and refugiums work best when water flow through them is gentle allowing time for bubbles to surface, nutrients to be absorbed and gasses to be exchanged.

OK, enough, I think you get the idea. While you are think along the right lines, you either have to reduce your flow through the S/R and add internal flow to the DT by closed loops, power heads or the newer Koralia pumps. Also, in my humble opinion, two 20 gallon tanks are too small for a 180.

There is no need to have a separate sump and refugium. Many of us combine the two. With a sump/refugium combo you reduce your piping configuration. I'd rather see you convert a 75 glass tank into a S/R and I think you would be happier, too.

Dick

Thanks for the response. You bring some very good points to light. The reason I had considered 2 20's is becasue they can fit in the stand through the doors or the back whereas I can't fit any thing else through those areas. Also I already have the 20's so it was a cost saving attempt. However after you explained the amount of flow that will be heading through those sumps it makes me nervous.

My design had changed however to have the pump in between the two 20's, drawing from each sump equally and thus eliminating the concern of the flow going from one to the next.

The other issue I have is my stand inside dimensions limit me from fitting anything too large. the inside will allow me to fit a stand around 18 wide by 48 long by 18 tall(preferably 15 so I can get the skimmer cup in and out easily). Any standard tank fit those dimensions properly?

I really want to do it right the first time so any more input would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a firm believer in using the largest S/R that will fit under the DT. Sometimes that involves dropping it into the stand before setting the tank in place. It does require forethought in planning your layout.

Drawing from each 20 wouldn't lesson your problem by much. It would create a new challenge, getting the same amount of flow to each 20 from the overflow. This problem could be eliminated by having an equalizing line between the two 20s. However, I still believe you are going to experience too much flow through the twin sumps.

I can appreciate wanting to do it right the first time. I can't tell you the long learning curve I went through (anyone with experience). Every tank set up is different, every piping system offers several different challenges, pump sizes, skimmer water flow needs, UV sterilizers. It's a challenge, no doubt. I've set up literally hundreds of systems in LFSs, homes, bars, restaurants, offices and my home. While similarities certainly existed (you eventually settle on a "system" that works for you) there was enough differences to make me have to think things through every time.

I hope what I present to you helps to keep you from making any major mistakes and flattens your learning curve.

Dick

I guess I should mention it is a reef ready with two overflows so the equal drainage shouldn't be a major problem.

After the issues you have brought to light, I am pretty sure I won't even attempt the 20's.

I would really like to fit the largest sump as possible(which can be brought down through the top of the stand after removing a brace or two) but I'm not sure what size aquarium would fit appropriately in the dimensions available.

Also in an effort to control costs I plan on basically building my own sump from a standard tank(adding baffles and holes) but I'm not sure what standard size tanks would work out for my available space range. I do want to leave enough room to have my calcium reactor and hopefully some sort of top off system in the stand as well( which may not be possible). A four foot tank would leave me a little less than two by one and a half foot square area for these accessories.

What about a 40 breeder? Its basically a 3' version of a 75 IIRC. I would still pass on the snapper...its too much pump. Unless you have a REALLY big sump, or are moving the water long distance, you will have to throttle that thing way back. It would be like buying a Corvette and then never driving it over 25mph.

Well the snapper is already on it's way so that's not really an option. However it only uses 98 watts of electricity which is amazing for the flow it puts out. My current submersible pump does about 700 gph at 125 watt/hr.

I am seriously considering adding a twenty breeder along side the 180 for a frag tank as well which would help disperse some of the flow. And now that I think about it, I can put the Calcium reactor under that stand, creating space for a larger sump.

So the snapper would split three ways, one into each return on the 180 and one into the frag tank. Seems feasable to me. However it's looking more and more like I'm looking at a custom sump to accomidate water flow.

The Snapper will certainly work and the more you split off of it the better to control the flow. You will probably need to put several ball valves on the output side plumbing to control the flow to the 180 and frag tank. You can then dial flow to the maximum that your sump can handle without causing problems.

Also, the Reeflo pumps are know for their quality and reliability, so at least you shouldn't have to worry about it for a long time.

Kewl, You guys have been great help. Any more suggestions are certainly welcome.

I looked up dimensions on stardard tanks and a 75 would probably work quite well as a sump.

Does anyone know if they temper the sides of a 75 gallon?

If so, is it a stupid idea to run a pvc line from the sump, over the rim of the sump, and back down to the pump? Seems dangerous, but I don't know.

Also, would it be smarter for me to just bite the bullet and buy a 75 size prefab sump or a DIY sump. Acrylic vs Glass?

Most likely a 75 will not have tempered sides and should be easy to drill with the proper bits. I would not attempt to go up and over because you would have to prime the pump in order for it to work.

I would look for a good used 75 if I were you. Check your local club or Craigslist.

I agree with poppin_fresh, get yourself a used 75 gallon and put the money you save on the sump to good use elsewhere. If you are leery of drilling the glass yourself, research for glass shops and LFS in your area that will drill it for you. It sounds like a great idea to me to use one of the 20 gallons as a frag tank, I was going to suggest that you turn the other 20g into a quarantine tank. I am a total reefing newbie but can assure you that you have found the friendliest forum on the net.

Check ebay for a tank. I have seen "very scratched" 180 go for as little as $100. The more water the easier the tank goes, in general.

I am in the process for getting quotes for a custom sump/Fuge for under my 6ft 125. It will be 60 inches long, 14 deep and 18 high. Skimmer on the right, fuge on the right, and the center chamber will be for the pumps for returns. I am excited but nervous to see the prices.

I have a very similar setup (210 w/ 2 -20ga sump & fuge) and found that when I slowed down the flow through both I got much better results. I see that the snapper is on the way but maybe there is a way to split off some of that flow to a loop that will keep the flow in your tank moving (that is where the flow is most important)

Just my 2 cents.........

Used 75s make for KILLER sumps. Heres' mine:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/CuringRock.jpg

Now, I do have some true head loss, pumping up another floor, so that pump would be a sweet deal on my system, but I too feel that your workhorse wouldn't be proper for any smaller sump.

Keep in mind, that if you DON'T torque it down with ball valves etc. you'll have fast flow through the sump. This could result in a lot of micro-bubbles making it back up to the display, because they don't have much time to dissapate in the water column of the sump. Make sure you baffle well. I've also used LR in the sump, after the baffles, and before or surrounding the return, to knock down/filter out some bubbles.

Best of luck! Sounds like a fun project.

Dave

reefenthusiast,

I don't know if you have been to my tank thread or not but you might pick up some ideas of how I divert water flow from a powerful pump to various devices via the use of a manifold and valves.

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef.html

Using a pump like the Sequence is a good idea, learning how to pipe the system to take full advantage of that flow without causing too much turbulence in the sump/refugium comes with research and experience.

Dick