Greetings!! This is my first visit to this site and first real attempt to helping my lovely, marine experienced wife set up a reef tank. We have had marine fish tanks in the past, but nothing really to this extent. Let me first set up the situation.

I'm building matching his/her built-in enclosures in our bedroom on opposite side of the room (for balance). These will be approximately 54" wide and 36"deep. In mine goes the computer and my radio hobby. In hers, we are setting up a 70G reef aquarium at eye level. For the purpose of this discussion, and forum, I'm sticking to her hobby.

TANK

So far, the RR tank is ordered and will be picked up on Saturday. It's dimensions are approximately 36" wide, 24" high, and 18" front to back. The stand will be custom-built and open on all 4 sides.

FILTRATION

We have decided to go with a sump/refugium system rather than a sump alone. I'm not thrilled with what is available at my LFS. $269 for an acrylic combo seems like I'm dumping a bunch of money into a brand name rather than function and filtration. I'd rather custom build my sump/refugium and add volume to the system. Sterilite containers would be fine or even another tank underneath the stand and subdivide it into compartments.

OTHER STUFF

A protien skimmer is certainly a must as well as the pumps to move the water, lights to 1)encourage growth of microorganisms and 2) be able to see the wonderful creation that sits in our bedroom, and the rest of the hardware to make everything work.

POINT TO THIS THREAD

The whole point of this thread is a request for help. I admit I have very little knowledge in setting up a reef system. In order of importance and to get water in the system and moving, what equipment type/brand do you recommend to get things going? Please keep in mind budget constraints as we go through this.

Thanks in advance for all the help. I'll post pictures as things move along.

welcome aboard ... just a bit of FYI here ... you are about to be bittin by the reef bug !!

in order i would this ...
1. Lighting (depends on what she wants to keep in the tank)
2. RO/DI unit to make PURE water for the tank. (with a high rejection rate [75gpd])
3. Skimmer (do not skimp here)
4. Hydor Korallia Powerheads (for water flow IN tank)
5. IMO a deep sand bed (5+ inches) is a great choice

i would use another tank for a sump as you mentioned. be careful with sterilite containers, as they have been know to crack under the pressure of water being in them.

KenMedic,

Welcome to TR. A 70 gal is a great choice for a first reef. My suggestion is to research, research and research some more.

Please keep in mind budget constraints as we go through this.
This is going to tough, believe me.

A good place to begin might be my tank thread found here on TR - Amphibious' 135 mixed reef (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef.html)

There are others as good or better. It's a starting point.

We are ready for your questions.

Dick

I second the sterilite warning. I had one split and leak, luckily where it wouldn't do any damage. I would consider a standard glass tank as a sump before I would use something not really designed to hold water.

Please also keep in mind that it is going to be impossible to make the tank silent. You WILL hear the overflow, skimmer, pumps, etc. to some extent. Because this is in your bedroom it may be a problem if you aren't prepared for it.

Good point about the noise level, Jon. Ken, I see you are in San Antonio. It's also very possible you will need a chiller. Chillers make some noise, added to the rest it may be more than you are able to put up with. Also, the chiller takes heat from the water and blows it into the room. It could make your bedroom uncomfortably hot.



Dick

Greetings!! This is my first visit to this site and first real attempt to helping my lovely, marine experienced wife set up a reef tank. We have had marine fish tanks in the past, but nothing really to this extent. Let me first set up the situation.

:welcome: to TR Ken. You have a plus going on there with your better half having some marine experience as it will give you a better understanding of water chemistry and set up.

I'm building matching his/her built-in enclosures in our bedroom on opposite side of the room (for balance). These will be approximately 54" wide and 36"deep. In mine goes the computer and my radio hobby. In hers, we are setting up a 70G reef aquarium at eye level. For the purpose of this discussion, and forum, I'm sticking to her hobby.The matching enclosures sound like a great idea. Were these 2 mini rooms going to have bi/tri fold doors? If so, that could cut down on the "noise factor" if that might be an issue for a sleeping area. Like Poppin mentioned, it will not be quiet. Also, had you thought about tiling the floor in those 2 sections. It could prevent some water mishaps or be easier to keep clean around the tank. (Just a few thoughts.)

TANK

So far, the RR tank is ordered and will be picked up on Saturday. It's dimensions are approximately 36" wide, 24" high, and 18" front to back. The stand will be custom-built and open on all 4 sides.What you can do as far as a sump/fuge will be dictated by the inside measurements of the tank stand where it will be kept. I had a sump/fuge built for my DT and I did not take into consideration the overhead that would be needed for the plumbing. I had to build another stand because of it. Mistakes cost extra money. :sick:

[FILTRATION

We have decided to go with a sump/refugium system rather than a sump alone. I'm not thrilled with what is available at my LFS. $269 for an acrylic combo seems like I'm dumping a bunch of money into a brand name rather than function and filtration. I'd rather custom build my sump/refugium and add volume to the system. Sterilite containers would be fine or even another tank underneath the stand and subdivide it into compartments.If you are a DIY kind of guy, this can save you some greenbacks. If you can find the right size tank w/ correct size WxDxH, you can go to Lowes or HD and they will cut plexiglass to your measurements, or you can cut it yourself. Find an appropriate build plan and make the sump/fuge yourself. And you can save alot doing the plumbing yourself also.

OTHER STUFF

A protien skimmer is certainly a must as well as the pumps to move the water, lights to 1)encourage growth of microorganisms and 2) be able to see the wonderful creation that sits in our bedroom, and the rest of the hardware to make everything work. The skimmer, LR and SB is going to be the stabalizing factor to the whole system. Lighting, water movement, and water quality will dictate the health of your system. Reef Keeper mentioned the Korellas, if you can, they are an excellent choice and use the lowest wattage of any pump that I know of. Energy efficient hardware will save you bucks on your electric bill. Amphibious did have the Korellas and he is a TR sponsor. I don't know if he's sold all that he had in stock or not.


POINT TO THIS THREAD

The whole point of this thread is a request for help. I admit I have very little knowledge in setting up a reef system. In order of importance and to get water in the system and moving, what equipment type/brand do you recommend to get things going? Please keep in mind budget constraints as we go through this.Thanks in advance for all the help. I'll post pictures as things move along.Like Amphibious stated.... research, research, research. If you have more time than money and patience, you will come out much better in the long run. Being impulsive can lead to problems and poor choices. The only thing that happens fast in this hobby is a disaster. There are many ways to save some money. Local reefer clubs are a great place to find used equipment, and anything else related to a marine tank. The news paper, craigslist and E-bay and use your computer to surf the web using bizrate, price grabber and any other comparative shopping. Also most businesses have a "price match" which can save big bucks for something you want. And just make yourself a list of what you need and are looking for and hang tight. Start purchasing those things when they present themselves. In the meantime you can be deciding on how you want to aquascape the tank, what type of LR you want to use, corals you want to keep and fish. Lots of decisions will have to be made, that's why this hobby is fascinating and never a dull moment. ;) And like others have said, TR is a valuable tool, the forums, podcasts, tank journals.

You are with friends now! "Reefers School Together"

Thanks for all the help.

The matching enclosures sound like a great idea. Were these 2 mini rooms going to have bi/tri fold doors?

The upper and lower portions of the tank will be concealed behind a pair of bifold doors, leaving just the tank visible. The inside of the enclosure will be lined with moisture-resistant drywall.

What you can do as far as a sump/fuge will be dictated by the inside measurements of the tank stand where it will be kept.

As of now, the tank should be close to eye level on a custom-built stand, approximately 42" at the base of the tank.. The stand will be bracketed to the wall for additional stability. Thinking about it, a LFS offers a "trickle filter" sump similar to the one Amphibious has for his 135. That might be the way I go, but I'm not sure. I really like the way Amphibious set his up.

Local reefer clubs are a great place to find used equipment, and anything else related to a marine tank. The news paper, craigslist and E-bay and use your computer to surf the web using bizrate, price grabber and any other comparative shopping.

My wife LOVES to do this. She has been looking for many different things to get this going.

Here's an odd question: the tank will be next to an exterior wall. Can anything be mounted outside in a weatherproof enclosure and plumbed through the wall as long as it is protected from freezing and the elements? This would certainly allow for additional water volume. A chiller would be a necessity in this case since the summer temperatures dance in the high 90s.

arrrr yes the saying "the only thing that happens fast in this hobby - is my rise to fame" is right on the money.....now give me thank you kudo's cause im feeling less love at the moment & have to over compensate in other ways........like this all important piece of advice............................................ .......................................
.........................................wait for it........................................
..........building the suspense! lol

This is your bedroom, noise is your first problem, but easily solved by noise cancelling techno-junky things that stick......no - your real problem that will drive you absolute bonkers in no time will be light & more to the point light gaps creating rays in the upper top section of the tank. Keep your overflow pipe length high & definitely adjustable. Just trust me:o Now, i'll take my kudos in unmarked small bills please. lol

welcome to paradise bud. multi cultured & skilled hang out that makes leaving Oz bearable! :p

Well, I went to the LFS and picked up my tank today. I also found a heck of a deal (half price) on a new and complete Oceanic #3 sump to convert to a refugium. It was much bigger and less expensive than the regular prepackaged sump they offered. I had to redesign my stand, which will now be integrated into the structure of the closet I'm constructing. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that triple 2x6 beams spanning 38" at 7 1/2" centers is a tad bit overkill??? Oh well, back to the big box hardware store I go!!! I just LOVE building things!! :D

Hello Ken (Waving at you)

Glad to hear that things are moving along for you and ... Mrs. Ken. :D Sorry, but I don't know dittles with framing, but if you have like insulation, staining woodwork, painting and whatnot, I can help you there. Hopefully some others here will chime in as there are a few building geniuses here when it comes to wood construction. Glad that you ran up on such a good deal and things worked out better than you were expecting. That's always good, so when something goes south for a minute, it won't be so bad. Make sure you take a list with you when you go back to the store, you'll forget a 25 cent bolt or screw! Awe! Nothing like going to the store and buying everything I need, except what I originally went there for. :blush: Can't wait till you snap off a pick of your new tank and sump! Oh, by the way, were you going to paint the back of the tank? I'm just asking because, a day late and a buck short, now I wish I'd of painted mine black.

Hi Ken and :welcome: to TR!

You've already been given lots of good advice. Even though your have the new sump/fuge I would also like to recommend that you check out Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums (http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html).

Your construction MIGHT be just a tad of overkill. Water weighs almost 9 lbs/gallon, you will have a hundred or more pounds of LR and 140 or so of sand, so it will weigh a little bit. :)

Since I have had a flood from both of my tanks in the last 10 days (what's up with that?) I would suggest thinking about the floor. Tile or vinyl would be good and maybe a lip to keep little spills separate from the bedroom. Going by your name you know how big a puddle a little amount of liquid creates. My stands both sit flush on the floor and that means that it is hard to sop up water from underneath them.

If you are going to have a chiller I would think about locating it outside. I wanted to knock a hole in the wall between the living room and the attached garage. However my hubby nixed that idea. But then I got my Solaris light and haven't needed my chiller since. So guess it was a good thing I didn't make any holes in the wall.

I'd suggest you listen to this week's Talkingreef Live, we had a big discussion about electrical safety. Basically it boils down to use GFCI, create drip loops in power cords and keep outlets out of the spill zone.

One more thing, I know that you are 3 or so hours from Houston but I would definitely check out the MARSH board for used equipment.

Well, this is where I am so far. I've completed the framing and had to step back and enjoy my masterpiece.

Me framing the "closet":
2320


The resting place for the tank. I'm still not sure if it'll hold up. ;)
2321


My lovely wife Karrie prepainting all of the exposed lumber. I wanted to make sure the wood was protected from the moisture.
2322


And finally, the aquarium and sump nestled in their resting place.
2323

I realize it is a bit overkill, but if the tank ever comes out, I can refinish it as a built-in media space or rip the guts out and use it as a closet. HIGHLY unlikely!!

What you cannot see yet is an access panel at the rear to allow for service to whatever may be hidden behind the sump as well as a dedicated electrical line to run everything.

Floors here are a concrete slab with vinyl flooring. Since this room is still under renovation from Tropical Storm Erin last August, I'm waiting to install the new flooring until everything else is completed.

Additional hardware purchases have been made. We're waiting on a protein skimmer and pump to arrive.

:rock: Looks like you're making progress in leaps! Glad that it is a family project as it makes it so much more exciting. Awesome framing work there and glad that it does have a rear end access to it. Good idea on priming the woodwork as you know it's going to get wet here and there. :up:

Well, here is my most recent picture.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj175/ksimpsonjr/2008%20Aquarium%20Project/2008ReefAquariumProject032.jpg

I will be adding in support for the horizontal plumbing shortly prior to testing it. As the picture shows, I "borrowed" the general plumbing and idea of the valves for future additions from Amphibious. He is quite the smart guy.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj175/ksimpsonjr/2008%20Aquarium%20Project/2008ReefAquariumProject033.jpg

Here is the sump/fuge back in its spot with lines attached. The sump was designed for dual inlets and returns, but the tank only had one port for each. Rather than plugging one set of holes on the sump, I plumbed it to split the water flow and evenly distribute it across the filtration media as well as for the return back to the tank to reduce the chance for stagnant water areas in the sump.

The protein skimmer is still on its way and the UV will be purchased soon. Karrie has a birthday coming up Friday, so we'll play it by ear on what comes next.

If you have any comments/concerns or helpful advice, please feel free to share. We most certainly appreciate any and all the help we can get!!!

Moving right along! :up: And yes, Amphibious is quite brilliant if I must say so myself. He is a master pipe fitter you know. Tell Karrie :birthday: from the gang here at TR!

Today, I finally got to a point to where I put water in the tank/sump and test what I have done so far. Suddenly, I noticed water on my floor. Apparently, it matters which side of the bulkheads the gaskets go on. Once I corrected that, everything seems to be flowing fine. Now, we wait . . .

hehe...gaskets ALWAYS go on the flange side. :D

Most people will tell you the gasket goes on the "wet" side, but this is not always correct. I know, because I used to tell people to do that, until I realized some people install bulkheads backwards (for me) with the nut on the wet side. That puts the FLANGE on the outside, where the gasket should be (NOT the wet side).

That's exactly what I was told to do. I had to install the return side bulkheads with the flange on the outside of the sump. I put the gaskets on the wet side and that allowed water to flow right out onto the floor. I disassembled the bulkheads and reinstalled the gaskets on the flange side and voila . . . no leaks!!!

By the way, I'm at a point where I am thinking about lighting/controllers/etc. For now, we want to start out with a basic reef. PCs and moon lights are on order thanks to that wonderful online auction site. As far as stocking the tank, LR, a few fish, and a cleaning crew are on our short list. This is where Karrie has experience. As far as other reef life, what can we start with that is most forgiving to early mistakes and basic lighting?

Great thread so far!
What is easy and forgiving? I personally have found clown fish extremely hard to kill. They just thrive reguardless of my water parameters, to a point. You should stear clear of all sps corals but many of the soft corals are easy to keep. Finger leathers, along with other leather corals have always grown well for me, along with mushrooms, recordia, and zoos. They all grow relatively fast and are easy to find.

You talked about noise, I thought you might want to try dynomat. It is a insulator used in vehicles to cancel noice from speakers. I dont know if it would work in this application but its just a thought.

On the latest podcast they spoke about doing a deep sandbed bucket in your sump/fuge, you may want to look into that as a way to lower nitrites.

I'm sure you meant to say Nitrates. DSBs are for lowering Nitrates.

My wife came home with this the other day and I am looking for some info on it if anybody has it. She said she picked it up somewhere for a few bucks as a used protein skimmer. Can anybody comment on this regarding completeness, plumbing, necessary pump for usage, or anything else that may be helpful? All I have so far is an older model Precision Marine protein skimmer.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj175/ksimpsonjr/2008%20Aquarium%20Project/2008ReefAquariumProject034.jpg

Thanks in advance!!

Hello Ken! Everything is coming along quite nicely. It looks that that skimmer is manufactured by Precision Marine and is an older version as I am thinking that they now are using their "Bullit" line for skimmers. I don't see any identification numbers in that pick so can't get any further than this for you. Not even sure what size skimmer that is and what's it load on it. Sorry I can't tell you anything else. Hopefully the hard cores here can readily answer that question for you. :D

The tank is looking great. Keep posting the pics.

The skimmer does not have any model/serial numbers on it. It is 18" tall including the cup, 4" diameter. I'm going to use it for now, but will replace it later with a newer model when I start adding livestock.

Ken, set it up and if it is pulling gunk out of the water you are good to go. Just be aware that it sometimes takes a few days to break in a skimmer.

Well, I haven't posted anything in a while, but have been hard at work. Here is a pic of the tank with MOST of the trim installed. I still have more work ahead.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj175/ksimpsonjr/2008%20Aquarium%20Project/DSCF0017.jpg

As of now, I have a 3" base sand bed awaiting some aragonite to top it off. A few pounds of live rock have been purchased, but are in the hidden sump with some rubble as well for the bio chamber.

As far as a base for LR, has anybody used dry figi rock half-buried in a DSB with LR stacked on it? Since the rock is not live, will there still be an issue with stagnation under the LR?

Oh, one more thing. The shopkeeper at a LFS suggested using superglue gel at contact points when building up my rock to prevent any shifting caused by livestock. Since I have no stock yet, would this be a problem?

As far as a base for LR, has anybody used dry figi rock half-buried in a DSB with LR stacked on it? Since the rock is not live, will there still be an issue with stagnation under the LR?

Oh, one more thing. The shopkeeper at a LFS suggested using superglue gel at contact points when building up my rock to prevent any shifting caused by livestock. Since I have no stock yet, would this be a problem?
Anytime you set rock directly on the sand bed, whether live or not, you eventually create the possibility of stagnation. As long as you are still in the process of setting up the tank why not take one more step and do it right? Here's a link to my tank thread where I explain and picture how to properly set up a DSB. Amphibious' 135 Mixed Reef (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef.html)

I'm not a believer in gluing LR together but it shouldn't cause a problem until you want to move a rock or two. Then you might wish you hadn't glued them together. It's up to you.

Dick

Hey Ken! Lookinggggg gooddddd! Love the trim and wood work. Now the wife is gonna insist that you do the floor molding around the room in the same stain and trim. :up: I agree with Dick... you need to put the rock work on pvc if you are concerned about the circulation, that is if you want to do it correctly. Also, about the glueing..... you can take fiberglass rods, or anything non metal and cut that to desired length as support and use plastic ties to support the rock. I laid out my aquascape design and when I decided on a set look, drill the holes and insert the rods and ties to secure. Down the road, if you should change your mind, you can cut the ties and move the rock. In some areas I also used lighting/egg crate/light disfuser as a support for my base rock. Just another suggestion for twisted minds. :cool: Just use your imagination! The whole purpose of base support is to strengthen support in regards to burroughing critters and an aid in circulation for detrious build up. All rock touching the sand bed is considered "dead space", only to be inhabited by bacteria that dwell within a DSB.

Like CJo said, it'll take a few days for the skimmer to get primed and start functioning as it should. After it does that, just make sure you keep it clean to obtain optimal performance. :love!: Can't wait to see your aquascaping design, just remember LR does not go as far as you think it does and depending on the type of LR, will determine the volume you have to work with, as some rock is heavier than others. Can't wait to see your future progress... you're almost there. I can smell the salt water! :up:

Ken you are making progress. The wood work looks great! I concur with Dick & Lori on the rock/sand suggestions.

The room is going to be finished out in a tropical theme. Once everything is completed, the tank should look like it is enclosed in an armoire. There is going to be more woodwork to come; it has been put on hold to allow the tank project to proceed.

As far as the rock work goes, I was just curious. I am 99% sure I will use the risers to elevate the rock scape.

Expanding on the circulation thought, if the dry rock is set directly on the glass bottom and then backfilled with sand thus eliminating the sand bed beneath the rock, and then the LR stacked on the exposed portions of the dry rock, would this still cause the same problem with stagnation and bacteria growth?

The tropical theme sounds very relaxing and quite fabulous! The LR resting on the DT glass bottom will give it support and help keep it from shifting as it would if it were just resting on sand. The reason why some prefer to use the PVC support method is to raise the LR above the sand bed giving water ciculation to all of the LR surface areas which helps remove an accumulation of possible detrious build-up. If you choose to place the LR on the glass bottom, you just need to provide water circulation to the base of the exposed rock to keep detrious from getting caught between the sand and rock as heavier particles in the water collumn will settle and become lodged there. It really depends on how much maintenance or time one is willing to spend in maintaining their system. IMHO of course. To my knowledge, persons putting the PVC method into practice have been well pleased with the outcome and I have not heard of any negative comments as of yet.

One disadvantage of placing the rock on the glass is that you have reduced the surface area of the sand, and thus the amount of filtration, in your tank. Another is that you will still get detritus built up behind the rock and where the sand and rock meet.