dwarf seahorse

[Larry Mc]

I have started raising dwarf seahorses. I have been out of the hobby for afew years so I decide I wanted to get back in and raise seahorses. I will try the small one first to get back in the grove and then the wife says we will move up from there.I don't work now so I have time .We got our horses at the first of the month .We started with 8 adults (3 male)and 7 babys. We have 35 babys now. We lost 2 males after giving birth to 2 big birthings( 11 -15 ) and we lost 3 of the very first babys at 22 days old and then we lost one of the new ones from getting stuck on the siphon tube net. I have a nylon stocking over the tube.

[Skurvey Dog]

:welcome: Larry Mc! Sea horses have always fascinated me, but I have never considered working with them. There are several horse people here that you will probably enjoy sharing with and a forum just for seahorses and pipe fish. It'd be awesome if you started your own tank journal so everyone can follow your progress. (If you haven't already done so.) Again, welcome aboard!

[CarmieJo]

Hi Larry Mc and :welcome: to TR.

[JustDavidP]

Watching with great interest :) Welcome aboard Larry from Okie! Glad to have you here.

Dave

[Larry Mc]

Well we noticed the male and a female was doing their quivering this morning so I guess he most be ready to do more courting. It is really getting hard to count the babys because some of them has started to change color already. 3 of the adults have changed from white to a brown or a salt and peper color. The hard part is trying to get rid of the slime algea but I guess that is some thing I will have to live with since we have to feed these little guy so much food. I do a water change every week of 2gal. I was changing every 3weeks. I may have to do 3gal. every week. They are in a 5gal. tank connected to a 10gal. simi-reef tank. It has some Mushrooms and snails and a purple cactus gorgonion in it plus about 10 to 15 lbs. of rock. The substrate is Black Tahitian Moon sand.

[JustDavidP]

You can still keep decent flow, enough to keep the cyano at bay, reduce the light/photoperiod until you have it under control and siphon out any food left after about an hour. You can get it all in balance... we know you can ;)

Dave

[JustDavidP]

Saw your thread on the other site....

If you can add another airline in there, with rigid tubing at the end, you may be able to create more, safe flow for the ponies.

You also use a normal output light over that tank, the "kind" of light may be the issue. The spectrum may be feeding to the cyano. See if you can get one of those compact bulbs in there.

Your gorgonian isn't dying because it's "flaking". They shed. This is a normal part of their growth and development. You'll see that they come back more colorful and thicker after the shed. This is much like softies do.

Your "polyp" looks like an aptasia anemone. Kill it. They will kill your Hippocampus zosterae, babies and adults alike. As will hydroids if you have them. Both pack a whallop in their sting. The aptasia will sting and then consume them.

Dave

[Larry Mc]

The light on the small tank is a plant light thar ya get at walmart. I got them for the mangrove and to help light the seahorses.If I took out the excess brine from the tank after a hour would the baby dwarfs be fed . they pretty much eat all day. That polyp is white tenecles and they have little feelers on the arms too.We couldn't get a good pic of them. The base of it is red ,all the aptasia I've seen weren't like that . The polyp when it was on the gorgonion look like some kind of a coral polyp so I wasn't sure.I've been watching it evry day since qwe found it and it has not grown any at all.Usaully with all the brine and pods and other micro that is in there it would have grown by now if it was a anenome wouldn't it?
Oh I forgot on The Reef Tank I had asked the guys there if they heard of any one having trouble with the black moon sand. Mine turned the bottom of the live rock black. Does anyone know anything about this stuff??

[JustDavidP]

You're right... the polyp looks like its from a gorg or a coral.

Plant lights are in the best spectrum to grow plants..or in this case, algae. The mangrove propagule will grow fine under compact flourescent. I have a standard 60 watt flourescent spiral type bulb over my fuge. No problems with algae. It's a cooler light, away from the greens/yellows that grow plants, but again, the macro and mangroves I have are okay.

Dunno about black sand. I've never used it.

D

[Larry Mc]

Well i went in and fed the little ones this morning and everyone seems to be doing fine. I did change the bulb out . Alittle on the yellow side to me. But we will give it ago. We are thinking of going to bare bottom in the tank since that sand turned the rock black. That still has me scratching my head. The rock is back to noral color this morning ,I have it in the 10gal. tank because the skimmer is in it and it did alot of skimming last night to . I had a 1\2 inch of gunk in it to pore out . I usauly don't have that much over night.I don't know.... We are going to do a water change today.

[JustDavidP]

I'm guessing that just by moving the rock around, you released some "schtuff" into the column and therefore sent the skimmer into overdrive. Also, in small-ish" systems, just the introduction of the oils on your skin etc. can cause the water's surface tension to change, and therefore send the skimmer into a frenzy.

I've read a LOT about black sands... because I was going to try it in my seahorse tank. I guess, from what I've heard, that there are two kinds. One, distributed by a well known commercial source, is actually aragonite sand, that is dyed black. Most say that it eventually washes out, and turns grayish over time (people report more so under intensely lit tanks).

The second is sand that is found naturally, in and around Hawaii and other volcanic islands. It retains its color but some don't like to use it because it has no "buffering" qualities and, having come from volcanic origins, some feel it may be either nutrient or metal rich, causing problems with the water chemistry. Finally, black sand, being silicate based, is actually sharper in form than the smooth profile of oolitic. People who are fans of sand bed critters feel that silica based sands may irritate the soft bodied inhabitants of their sand bed.

I love the look of black sand, but haven't had the opportunity to try it. I'll follow your journey before I make a decision for any of my systems. I think it would look incredible in a shallow clam tank, making the colors of the tridacnid mantles POP against the background.

Dave

[Larry Mc]

I think we have the scond tpye, it came from PETSMART. So I think it will probably go...

[Larry Mc]

Well I think the male is preg. again. He looks pretty full to me. Him and a female were doing thier thing up on the mangroves the other day.
Everyone is doing good but 1 female I found this morning. She was propt up between 2 roots but not stuck. I thought she was dead but not so. I moved her to the front of the tank with a rigid tube that way I could observe her better. Her breathing is real slow and some times she will move alittle. It seems desaster hits at night all the time when the lights are off. She was pretty nomal yesturday. I wonder if I might have stired up the tank to much when I change the water yesturday? I sucked up alot of the gunk off the bottom and some of the sand with it, and had to get in and around where they like to stay. I also sucked up 1 of the babys, boy are they quick,one moment it wasn't there then the next it was and I couldn't get away from it fast enough. I use a air line to do my water changes with, it works good normally.

[Larry Mc]

Well we lost her . By the time I got back in there she was a gonner.

[JustDavidP]

Sorry for your loss :(

[Larry Mc]

Well I went in and fed the little ones this morning and they all look good.They really look strange when you see one of them hanging upside down like a monkey. Ya just can't help but get a kick out of them.They are very entertaining. I was just wondering how many generations it would take for them to be CB instead of WC? Would it be the second generation or what? I guess you could call my first babys a scecond gen. because they were born in shipping.They have been tank raised all their life. So far 29 days old.
We are taking the black sand out. We are doing just alittle at a time. That sand the snails don't like either, we have lost 3 snails in there.We don't seem to have the same trouble in the 10 because they stay on the rocks. I DON'T KNOW.....

[Larry Mc]

We did loose 1 baby ,it was one of the older ones. It was a little male . Chacked the water and ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10. That wa the one hanging upside down...I 've seen him do that so many times I just figured he was OK. That means we have 3 older babys left. That ain't good...

[Skurvey Dog]

[QUOTE= I was just wondering how many generations it would take for them to be CB instead of WC? Would it be the second generation or what[/QUOTE]

That is an interesting question Larry. I really had never thought about it overly much until you asked about it. I am curious to know the details behind this classification. Sorry bout the little guy. I guess everything in life is a learning experience and know that as problems are approached, solved and time moves on, you should be well on your way successfully. It's just the disappointments that get you along the way when you are trying so hard. You're doing a great job and I know you'll figure out things. Wishing you perseverance, and much success!

[CarmieJo]

Sorry to hear about your losses.

[Larry Mc]

Well we seem to be doing good today. At least no losses. The last male is preg. So the week after this we will have more babys. The little ones are growing pretty fast. I have noticed a few of them doing alittle rubing but I 'm not to sure if it might not be from the brine in there. They sure do collect on everything. I was watching one of the adult females and she had them on her head so I bet they get to bothering thier gils and head at times...

[Larry Mc]

Lost 2 older babys this morning and a adult female acting up. Tested water for ammonia and nitrite both 0. We decided to take that sand out so it is gone now.Every time you disturb the sand we lose a horse ,now there is no sand to disturb.

[Larry Mc]

Well we took out the sand yesturday. We lost accouple of babys .I haven't looked in on them this morning ,lights off.They hang around the bottom I don't know if they see thier self or the brine is there.The male is getting big.next week should be it.I also disconnected the 10gal from it .We put 3 snails in there and they did good all day yesturday.I put 2 small rocks in there that I had in another tank to help filter. I did not pancur them .I need to get some .

[Larry Mc]

Everyone seems to be doing ok this morning. I cann't get a good count on them anymore because of the reflections. I seem to get a count of 21 or 25. Snails still doing good.

[Skurvey Dog]

Glad everything seems stable today. I wish you could find a camera and pop off a few shots. I'm dying to see your horsies. :heart:

[Larry Mc]

As soon as the snails can clean the tank up alittle I'll get some pics. I Don't want to take any now , It don't look to good with the algae all over. I haven't been able to have snails in there and since I took out the sand the snails are having a hay-day...I have 3 in there now I probably should put accouple more in there. The male is due sometime after monday. We still have 1of the first babys that is 34 days old,and we have 21 of the younger babys left, and I think 4 adults, we had a die off.

[Larry Mc]

Checked the tank . Doing good . All acounted for. It is wierd that some of the babys really grow so much slower then the others, I know there is a accouple of days differents in some of them, but there is some that don't even look like they have grown any. Runts. All the horses were white when we started , now we have only 1 or 2 that is white and that is counting the babys too. They realy bend in. I have to count them 3 or 4 times to get a good count. Some are so small that they look like part of the root of the Mangrove trees.

[JustDavidP]

:) Some of the fry are probably hitched or associate with differing areas of the tank and therefore have differing opportunities to catch prey. H. Zos don't travel much to catch foodstuffs. They are kind of lazy in that regards. They just wait until the shrimp or whatever come to them. Maybe feeding the tank, introducing the brine in a different area, or changing up flow a little could help.

Dave

[Larry Mc]

Just davidp
I will Try that. I just wonder if I have lost all my copods that was on the glass and plants. I got some from Aquaculturestore.com. Have you tried any of their pods? I put some in the 10 and the 5 back in Dec. and they were all over the glass. In the 10 there is still some and when I turn the pumps off for a few minutes you can see them zipping around in the tank.
Sachs Systems Aquaculture Welcomes You! (http://www.aquaculturestore.com/index.html)

[JustDavidP]

No, I've tried tiger pod brand from someone else, but not from Sachs. Personally, I like to keep a couple "offline" tanks, with rock and algae etc. and keep pods going there. I do the same for mysid shrimp. I use chaeto balls in the systems and bring them to other tanks and "Swoosh" them around. The buggies come flying out into that system.

Dave

[CarmieJo]

Hi Larry, how are they doing?

[Larry Mc]

BOY THAT S$@#!... I had logged in and made a replay and it didn't take. ........
We have 7 babys and 3 adults . The male is due anytime. We put some Methylene Blue in the tank since we don't have any sub in it. We figured it would be less stress on the male. They get to rubing sometimes and I thought it might be due to so much brine geting around thier gills or something, but they also sometimes start to spasam alittle.

[CarmieJo]

I hate it when that happens. And it is never when you made a one sentence post, it is when you have written a book! Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

[Larry Mc]

I found 1 of the babys died this morning, it was a rael small one . I thought they all were eating good . I change water again this morning (2 gal).We have 1 of the babys that swims around and swims right for the air bubbler and then goes back after it is pushed away from the curent.I'm not sure what else to do so I guess I just keep on trucking.....

[CarmieJo]

Bummer. Sorry for your loss.

[Skurvey Dog]

I use chaeto balls in the systems and bring them to other tanks and "Swoosh" them around. The buggies come flying out into that system.Dave

Dave, that is such a brilliant idea! Where do you come up with such, simple, easy things? :up:

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Larry, sorry to hear about the baby. I keep hoping that things will stable out. I'm trying to remember all of your posts and your set up there with the horses. I did a little surfing and from what I can tell the #1 cause of infant mortality is parasites because the babies are stationary and very vunerable for the first 14-17 days. I also saw where gas bubbles can get trapped inside of them and cause the bends.

Leslee Matsushige, assistant aquarium curator at UC San Diego's Birch Aquarium at Scripps Institution of Oceanography has done specific research on sea horses and jellyfish with amazing findings and positive results. I'm wondering if a person could contact her and see if she would be willing to point you towards any of her research papers and publications. I'm sure they are full of very valuable information. It's just a thought. I know you probably have cases of books and papers, I just wanted to try to help, because I know you are trying so hard.

Here is the site that I found an article on her.

University of California - UC Newsroom | Aquarium curator doesn't horse around (http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/17151)

[Larry Mc]

Well i thought I'd update this . We have 1pony and 2 adults now. The pony is 35 days old. The male I thought it was preg but when we tranfered him to the other tank he was nolonger preg. Not sure what happened. Any way he don't look preg now. We haven't lost any more for 5 days now.So maybe things are ok now. i'm starting a new filter up in the 5gal. tank while they are in the 2 1\2gal. I change 2gal. of water aday to keep everything in order. They seem to be eating good . I need to figure away to get the older brine out of the tank with as little disturbing action to the horses as possible.Right now I sifon it out with a airline, about a gal. and then gravity flow back in with a airline. They don't seem to get to stressed out that way.

[Larry Mc]

We still have the 3 horses so I guess the die off has stopped. I started useing the HOB filter to get all the old brine out of the tank. I use a stocking on the end of a siphon tube in the over flow side to the tank. Works good takes about a hour and nomore brine in there. I think the filter is trying to kick start now because yesturday it showed a little nitrite and ammonia. I'm still changeing 2gal a day of water.
The pony is 39 days old now and looking good, I haven't seen the male and female courting anymore so I guess they decided it was time yet.

[Larry Mc]

Well we have lost the pony at 40 days old. We just have the adult male and female. I tried some of that BIO-SPIRA bacteria and it did not seem to do much good with the filter. I still after 3 days have a high nitrite level so I don't think much of it. maybe some one else has had better luck with it but I used a whole pouch in a 2 1\2 gal tank and it didn't work....So much for 15.00. So I'm back to 2 gal. water changes. This will be my last up date on this thread. I thought we had the die off taken care of but ....... I'm not going to give up on the DSH, I will try some more . hopefully we can feep these 2 adults.