I decided to make a log of the progress on my 65 reef. So far I have stained the stand, setup my DIY sump, added a skimmer, glass canopy, 60lbs aragonite sand and ~20lbs of base rock.

65 gallon reef ready AGA
20 G Sump with refugium
Coralife Super Skimmer 125
Visitherm 200Watt Heater

ImageShack - Hosting :: 1142008001ui9.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1142008001ui9.jpg)
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The future stock list so far is
2-Ocellaris Clowns
Dwarf Angel (Most likely Flame Angel)
Royal Gramma
McCosker's Flasher or Carpenter's Wrasse
Soft Corals
I'm still unsure about the cleanup crew but would like some peppermint shrimp. I also ordered a powercompact 2x96W fixture for lighting. Hopefully will begin to add liverock soon. Now that the sand has settled I have removed the filter floss from the sump.

just a word of caution ... a flame angel MIGHT nip at soft coral polyps.

the setup is looking good though.

just a word of caution ... a flame angel MIGHT nip at soft coral polyps.

the setup is looking good though.

I know :( , are there other dwarf angels that are less likely to do so?

not really, any angel is a 50-50 shot.

I know :( , are there other dwarf angels that are less likely to do so?
One of my favorite Dwarf Angels is the Atlantic Dwarf. I have never had a problem with them nipping at corals. One of the "secrets" is to feed your fish often (at least three times daily) and feed a variety of foods.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/VeggieClip-1.jpg

Here he is eating Nori from the veggie clip. Many of the larger dwarfs from the Pacific will pick at corals. Like lReef lKeeper said, it's a 50/50 deal, maybe less. Give the Atlantic Dwarf a try, I think you'll have success.

Dick

I too have an Atlantic dwarf, aka cherub angel, aka pygmy angel, (Centropyge argi) and it has not bothered my corals.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/CarmieJo/DSC_5020.jpg

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm definetly going to consider the cherub angel.

they are right on the flame angels but in there defense, I have had one in my tank for over a year and he is a model citezin of the tank. allways grazing on algae and I have ALOT of stuff for him to munch on in the 400 gallon tank. But then again mine might be an exception.

I have a couple of questions. I wanna set up a quarantine tank and was wondering if a 10g would be big enough for stock list. Are there any fish on my list that would find the 10g unsuitable for 2 weeks? Im planning on attaining all but the pair of clowns around 3 weeks apart, so one fish in the qt at a time. Also my lighting fixture was supposed to arrive today but instead wont be here until next week. Does live rock with coraline growth on it have lighting needs? I wanted to start setting up the aquascape.

everything looks like it will be fine in a 10g for a couple of weeks. just remember that if you add something new to the QT while there is anything in there ... they BOTH go back to day 1.

the coralline needs light to survive, but the rock should be fine.

Thanks for the quick response, do you think ill see coraline dyeoff in a week without lighting?

probably, but i would try to add a couple of strip lights or a shop light or something of that nature to the place that you will be holding it (tank, tubs, etc.). that will likely minimize the die off.

Maybe. But, cramped quarters and lack of a feeling of security will hamper your quarantine control. quarantine is not just to isolate a specimen but to condition them back into health from capture, shipping, handling stress through several layers of collectors, trans-shippers, wholesalers, LFSs to you. In my humble opinion, I think a better choice would be a 29 gal or 40 breeder.

You must realize, in most cases, you are taking them from the vastness of a coral reef into a bucket, into cramped holding facility, bagged, shipped to transhipper's cramped facility, bagged again, shipped to American wholesalers cramped facility, bagged again, shipped to your LFSs cramped facility. All the while NOT BEING FED. I don't care what size aquarium the LFS puts them into, compared to the reef it is a closet, even if it's 300 gallons!!! Then you want to quarantine them in a 10 gal??? If you are an experienced expert, MAYBE. I'd go with something bigger like I mentioned above. It doesn't have to be fancy. Give them various sizes of PVC pipe and or fittings to hide in.

Take your thinking to the next level. You will have better success.

Dick

By-the-way, I forgot 2 to 3 weeks is probably not enough time in QT. And listen to what lReef lKeeper said about adding something to the QT tank. Personally, I would not add another specimen to the QT. Each critter needs it own quiet time to recover.

Dick

and even if there is a remote chance that there will be more than one SMALL fish ... go bigger to start with. it will make the QT time less stressful on them.

Thanks for the responses. At this point im looking at the quarantine as just that, a quarantine, not a hospital tank. A place where I can isolate and observe each new specimen by itself for a period of around 2 weeks before adding it to my display.

i would probably leave them in there for about 4 weeks. gives a little more time to observe and for the uglies to show themselves.

I QT for a month too. I think it allows the fish to become accustomed to life in captivity and helps ensure your reef stays healthy.

Thanks for the heads up. Im going to extend my QT time to 4 weeks.

I think this will save you grief down the road.

I QT for a minimum of 4 weeks and evaluate the specimen at that point. If he's eating like a pig and showing no signs of stress or disease he can go in the display. I'm not at all hesitant to extend his QT time.

Dick

Well I wanted to post pics of my first attempt at aquascaping. Theres around 50lbs of fully cured live rock and 22lbs of base rock. The live rock has been in my LFS's tanks for over 2mo. What do think you of the aquascaping? I used two fishies epoxy to secure the stacked pieces together.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2350/1142008111ax5.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1142008111ax5.jpg)
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4751/1142008112iu7.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1142008112iu7.jpg)
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4015/1142008113ms7.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1142008113ms7.jpg)

Should I add a source of ammonia for cycling? The reason I even ask is that the rocks came with a few free mushroom corals and I'd like to keep them alive. Being that this rock spent a long time in my dealers tank im assuming it is full of nitrifying bacteria. Am i better off just cyling by leaving it alone for a 3-4 weeks? Looking for opinions. If I should add a source of bacteria, such as a cocktail shrimp, how high should i let the ammonia levels reach? Right now ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all 0. Before adding the live rock there was 0.50ppm of ammonia.

When did you put the LR in the tank? Do you have nitrite? Nitrate?

Live Rock was put in two days ago, today all parameters are 0. A few days before adding the live rock I was getting the .50ppm of ammonia, 0 nitrities, and 0 nitrates. I have never done a water change.

It is possible that the LR just sucked up the ammonia. Remind me, do you have sand in the tank?

Yes there is about a 2 inch deep aragonite sandbed.

OK, let me make sure I understand. You had the sand and some base rock and then you added the cured rock. Before you added the cured rock you had ammonia but no NO2 or NO3. Two days after adding the rock you have no nutrients at all.

Since there was an existing ammonia challenge in the tank I think that this means the LR did its job and converted it. You could add a cocktail shrimp but since you already had ammonia I don't think it is necessary. I would probably add a tiny pinch of food every couple of days as a source of food for the bacteria and keep monitoring your tank. Give it the 3-4 weeks and as long as it remains stable I think you are good to go.

I used fully cured rock and sand from a tank that a guy in the area was tearing down and never saw a cycle. I doesn't always happen this way but it is not terribly uncommon.

I really appreciate your help Carmie. And yes you understood what happened perfectly.

Great! Keep us posted and don't rush into anything,

Wanted to post an update and show a picture of the tank with the PC lighting.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/newlighting.jpg
My temperature is very stable between 79-80 deg F, is this a good temp or a little too high? I'm sure I can bring it down a lil by having a fan blow across the sump. But I would like to avoid speeding up my evaporation rate if its not necessary. Right now I'm topping off around a gal a day. What do you think?

That tank looks Great! I wish mine looked as clear as that one does.

I agree with Josh, your tank looks crystal clear! Having the temperature stable at 79-80 should be just fine. However, if you keep your home warmer in the summer than in the winter like we do you may battle temperature problems then.

the room is normally never hotter than 76 77f max even in summer

You will probably be OK. Remember to keep an eye on it when the days start heating up. Here is an article Reefreaders - Beat The Summer Heat (http://www.reefreaders.com/content/view/37/1/) that may be helpful.

Just an Update. My first aquisitions are in the QT, a pair of TR Perculas. I'm feeding them frozen brine shrimp. Is this a suitable diet for these guys? LFS said they are too small still for flake or pellet food. Sorry for the horrible pictures, but these guys are FAST. Better pics coming soon.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/newclowns1.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/newclowns2.jpg

Another example of the LFS guy not giving accurate info! They are big enough for flake food because flake food is thinner than paper and when eaten it's volume is extremely small. Pellet food comes in several sizes and when soaked becomes soft and they probably can eat that, too. Frozen brine shrimp, on the other hand, has almost no food value and while feed by almost every hobbyist it should be fortified with Selcon or Zoecon before being feed. Get some flake food and some tiny pellet food and let the fish determine whether it's of suitable size. Frozen Mysis is better than frozen brine shrimp although I feed both after soaking to enrich them.

Dick

Well in all fairness what the LFS told me was that at this size they tend to eat the pellet food then spit it back out. The reason I asked on here about what to feed them is because of what you said Amphibious, ive read frozen brine shrimp does not have much nutritional value. I'm going to look for Selcon or Zoecon, is there a type or brand of pellet or flake food that you recommend?

I feed Ocean Nutrition Formula 1 and 2. My clowns love Hikari info : Hikari Tropical MARINE S (http://www.hikari.info/tropical/t_11.html) pelleted food. I soak everything I feed in garlic and vitamins.

I wanted to post some new pics for you guys. So far so good. I ended up adding a fan to my sump to keep the temps down. After a week of having it in operation I'm very happy with the results, temp is always between 78.0 and 79.0 degrees F. I'm having to top off about a gallon of RO water a day now as opposed to half that. The stock list is up to 2 electric blue leg hermits, 13-? blue leg hermits, 3 turbo snails, 2 percula clowns, a few mushrooms (freebies that came with the LR), zooanthids, metallic green star polyp, and I added a skunk cleaner shrimp yesterday.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/firstzoas.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/macroblueleghermit.jpg

I'll post more pictures including full tank shots later on today. So far I've found 3 blue leg hermit carcasses in the tank, I'm pretty sure they aren't molts. They were very vivid in color and didnt seem hollow. They are either dying or the electric blue legs are predating on them.

I want to gather opinions on how long to run my lights for. Lighting is coralife PC fixture with 1 96w full spectrum 1 96 watt actinic. So far I've been sticking to the suggestion in Robert Fenner's book of 14 hrs on the actinic and 12 hrs on the full spectrum. Any suggestions? My LFS recommends 13-14hrs of actinic and 8hrs of full spectrum. Tank is 24" tall, I intend to keep soft and LPS corals.

I feed Ocean Nutrition Formula 1 and 2. My clowns love Hikari info : Hikari Tropical MARINE S (http://www.hikari.info/tropical/t_11.html) pelleted food. I soak everything I feed in garlic and vitamins.

i have this stuff too for my fish. they go CRAZY over it. not just the clowns...but the tang as well.

I run my PC's on my nano 8 hours a day. My Solaris is on a sun cycle with. In the dead of winter the lights were on for about 11 hours including the sunrise and sunset. At the height of summer it will be daytime for about 16 - 17 hours.

New Updated Photos:
Sixline Wrasse
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/sixline2.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/sixline.jpg
Green Hammer
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/greenhammer.jpg
Cleaner Shrimp
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/Jacque-1.jpg
Full Tank Shot
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/FTS.jpg

My Fish Stock List is two percula clowns, 1 sixline wrasse, and I have a royal gramma in the QT right now. I want to add a flame angel in the future. Im debating on adding a small tang (blue or sailfin) or longnose/copperband butterfly to my list. I'm aware that copperbands are difficult to get to eat, but I've read that once eating they seem to be hardy fish. My concern with the tangs is the reputation they have for contracting ICH and the amount of swimming space they need. Does anyone have any suggestions for me or other things to consider?

As for the tangs the popular opinion is that they need a minimum of 5 feet of swimming space, 6+ is preferred. Many people get them for a smaller tank and think they will "figure it out when it comes time" but from my experiences this usually doesn't happen and the fish suffers. Which if it comes down sick you risk crashing your entire tank. To me the benefits don't outway the risks unless you already have the proper sized tank on hand ready to drop them in. Hope this helps and I'm sure others will chime in also.

Thanks IAreef, I know your opinion is a popular one. I see myself upgrading tanks in the future but as you say, if that doesnt happen its the fish that ultimately suffers. Does anyone have any first or second hand information they can provide me with either long nosed or copperband butterflies (other than copperbands are hard to get feeding)? I was considering the butterflies over a tang as I said earlier because of the long term tank size req. for a tang and because of tang's bad reputation for being ich magnets. However, my LFS owner said he personally has had bad experiences/luck with butterflies and for that reason does not carry them. Also any opinions on my stock list so far? I feel the 6 fish i have selected wont crowd the tank and should get along well, but id like opinions.

Should I start a seperate thread?

I decided to update my log with some new pictures. Let me know what you think. Also any pointers for taking better pictures?
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/finegrape.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/stripedshrooms2.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/gramma.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/hammer.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/pearlbubble2.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/zoas.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/stripedshrooms.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/pf1130/65%20Gallon/4-09-2008039.jpg

I love the striped mushrooms!

Taking good aquarium pix is HARD! I probably discard 20 for every one I keep. What type (basic point & shoot, p & s with some options, slr) of a camera do you have?

My camera is an Olympus sw770 (point and shoot). Its supermessible so some of the pics I posted earlier were taken "in tank." I take most of my shots in macro mode. But was wondering if someone had any other pointers or links to how to take better aquarium photos.

:up: Great tip #1, if you are planning on taking pictures first clean the glass inside and out. Great tip #2, if you see a once in a lifetime event happening rule #1 does not apply! Grab the camera and start shooting.

:pic: Macro mode will allow you to focus closely but gives you a very shallow depth of field. (Depth of field is how much of your tank from front glass to back is in focus.) This is great for corals but often not for fish.
:pic: I think that a tripod is a great tool and use mine all the time.
:pic: Play around using flash/no flash. Shooting at an angle or very close to the glass can help prevent the flash from glaring back at you.
:pic: I like to take pix of my tanks at night because light from the window makes reflections/glares on the aquarium during the day. I turn out the room lights too.
:pic: Take lots of images and throw away the bad ones! But, learn from the bad shots - why is it bad?

Thanks for the tips Carmie. I especially liked the ones on not using macro mode for fish and on shooting at an angle to the glass/close to the glass with flash. I have a hard time catching the fish without flash but I hate the glare I get with flash. I'll be sure to try this out. :up: