deep vs shallow sand bed

[laurabolyard]

ok, my 'know-it-all' neighbor who talked my husband into buying metal halides for me for christmas :) (I WILL thank him for that). We all know someone who thinks that their way is the only way. Now he feels he has a vested interest in my tank, and is really getting obnoxious with his facts/opinions:madmad: He knows how I need to rearrange all of my rock, how much sand I NEED to remove, and how many bio balls I need to add:o
I HAVE done a lot of research in the last two years, but there really are differing opinions with regard to these things. The first one I will ask is about the sand bed. I have a deep one. Some say good, some say nitrate factory. Help!! I want to be ready when he opines brutishly on this one!

[Phurst]

You're right, there are widely differing opinions on this one. There are plenty of successful reefs with DSBs, SSBs and bare bottom, so I don't think there is really a "right" answer. Each have their benefits and drawbacks. I have a DSB, and a sump with a DSB on my nano. I believe the science behind the DSB theory, and I believe it's working on my tank (the one on my nano is only a few weeks old, so it's not "active" yet). I am also a strong proponent of removing, or not adding bio-balls. Again here, the science supports the theory of why they can turn into nitrate factories. I can give you the quick and dirty on the science behind my opinions if you like.

[lReef lKeeper]

i am in 100% agreement with Pearson on this subject. nothing that i can say that he did not already say.

[laurabolyard]

Thank you, I really wanted another opinion. I am leaving my DSB and NOT adding any more bio balls. I had reduced the amount last year to half, basically because I couldnt decide to ball or not to ball after everything I had read! About the rocks, I think that is half the joy of the tank, having licence to put YOUR stuff where YOU want it. Opinions are helpful (ideas for gaining more real estate, etc). I just wanted to be sure I hadnt missed anything here. I am NOT having a nitrate problem, so I will be leaving things alone for now!

[Phurst]

How is your neighbors tank doing? It's certainly possible "his way" works for him. Good choice on doing research and not letting him have his way with YOUR tank :)

[Amphibious]

ok, my 'know-it-all' neighbor who talked my husband into buying metal halides for me for christmas :) (I WILL thank him for that). We all know someone who thinks that their way is the only way. Now he feels he has a vested interest in my tank, and is really getting obnoxious with his facts/opinions:madmad: He knows how I need to rearrange all of my rock, how much sand I NEED to remove, and how many bio balls I need to add:o
I HAVE done a lot of research in the last two years, but there really are differing opinions with regard to these things. The first one I will ask is about the sand bed. I have a deep one. Some say good, some say nitrate factory. Help!! I want to be ready when he opines brutishly on this one!
The subject of DSB, SSB, and BB is one that creates heated discussions between various pundits of each style. The fact is (My experienced opinion.) I have used each several times over the last 40 years I've been doing marine aquariums. I have come to the conclusion that the overall winner of this debate is a DSB with a minimum of 4" depth of Aragonite oolitic sand. Your neighbor may have a different system that works for him. That's okay. There are big and small differences each of us use in our systems that make up the TOTAL filter system. It isn't just the DSB or the SSB of the BB, it's the entire system that may include wet/dry trickle filters, sumps, refugiums, combination sump/refugiums, skimmers, UV sterilizers, ozone generators, calcium reactors, phosphate reactors, canister filters, etc, etc, etc!!! Each item that is used or not used has an effect on the outcome of your TOTAL FILTER SYSTEM. Your maintenance habits play a roll, as does your water change schedule. Even the brand of salt you use. It's all related and your neighbor is not doing you any favors by adding his unsolicited opinion.

As far as a DSB being a Nitrate factory, that is simply BUNK!!! We utilize a DSB to eliminate Nitrate. Here is a link to my web site where you will find a link to Dr. Ron Shimek's little book on DSB secrets. It's a short but informative read. Your read of it will help you face your neighbor on this subject. aragonite sand (http://www.theculturedreef.com/aragonite.htm)
Click on the thumbnail of the book.

On wet/dry trickle filters and the use of bio-balls. They were all the craze 20 years ago but, when you are doing a reef set-up the W/D with bio-balls, they will not remove Nitrates and thus cause problems. They work okay on FOWLR systems because fish are not as susceptible to Nitrate poisoning and can do fine with high Nitrates.

I hope this has helped.

Dick

[laurabolyard]

excellent! Neighbor is amazed that he has phosphates and I dont, I have a sump and he doesnt, you are absolutely right about the TOTAL system being taken into consideration. We have many differences in our systems, different wants as well, he likes to just look at coral, I love my inverts! I do not really have corals (some tubes) yet, as I did not have sufficient light (do now!!!!!). So maybe I should rethink the bio-balls when I begin to coral (ive just made that a verb!)? ??

[poppin_fresh]

I think you've hit on a good point there... you have many differences in your systems. He might have a lot of phosphates because he overfeeds what he has. The fact that you dont have detectible PO4 means that your tank is suitable for corals (which dont tolerate NO3 and PO4 well). especially high light corals with that 500 watter over a 50 gal!

[laurabolyard]

Woo-hoo, as long as I dont boil them! with these new lights! Problem is, now Im too broke to buy anything else:sick: It does drive mr perfect crazy that I dont have phosphates, or that I was growing correline with my cheap lights, and that my tube corals were spreading. Its kind of funny to watch him stand there scratching his chin "I just dont understabd it" He says. I don't either, but its funny to watch!

[lReef lKeeper]

maybe you should turn him on to this site !! lol

[laurabolyard]

I would love to, but he already knows everything!!

[CarmieJo]

I would love to, but he already knows everything!! :D I am always open to learning something new. However, you are probably not going to convince me that a DSB is a bomb waiting to go off or that I should add bio-balls to my reef.

[laurabolyard]

Hee hee:rotfl: Thank you so much for helping me stand my ground. Ive only had my tank for a couple of years, its been a learning experience, but the biggest thing that I have learned is exactly what you all have said, there is no absolute. There are way too many extreneous variables at work in this hobby, Dick mentioned several. One gathers all of the information possible and them synthesizes to the best of their ability, then trial and error. It IS great to have those that will be supportive along the way!
Incidentally, neighbor was here to check it all out, of course, and indeed mentioned moving all of the rocks around and getting rid of some of the sand! I was ready, sort of. I reminded him that I research EVERYTHING, and the countless hours that I have done just that over the past couple of years. His response was that, "Yeah, thats frustrating and time consuming, thats why I just do what the marine biologists say." Pretty said that he bypasses the bull and goes to the experts, Thanx guys for the great info and experience that I could relate!! WHATEVER to mr. nitrate:D
That aside, I have NOT done enough research on the megadose of halides he convinced my husband that I needed. While I agree (and wanted) metal halides, I think 500W on a 55gl 12 hrs a day may be too much, but I didnt say anything, and wont until I am done RESEARCHING!! So please, give me all youve got!!:love!::love!::love!:

[lReef lKeeper]

now that i think about it ... i think that i would have gone with 175w halides over the 250s for a 55 gallon. i have 3 x 250w halides over my 125 gallon DT, and just picked up a 175w to replace the 150w on the frag tank.

[laurabolyard]

That probably would have been ideal. I wasnt given the chance to research what would be best, they were bought for me under the expert advice of the neighbor,;) and I ultimately had to pay for them:shout: talk about a real kick in the teeth:mrgreen:

anyway, there is a silver lining in this cloud. My husband now feels an interest in the tank for the first time, since he bought me the lights (thats funny, so why am I broke?) and since his friend-the neighbor- is so "into it"

He will be a lot more tolerant now when I bring home new aquatic friends, and I may even get some help lugging jugs:)

But the lights are what I have to deal with now, I just have to make it work. Neighboe says, and I havent researched this yet) that the bulbs have to be replaced every year. I guess next time I will just buy 175's? Is that how it should work?

[Phurst]

The bulbs should be replaced every year, yes, but they're not like regular lamp bulbs. You can't just buy a 175w bulb, it has to be matched to the ballast.

If it were me, I think I would explore returning those lights and going with something less potent, but that may not be an option for you. I just think heat and coral bleaching are going to be issues for you.

[laurabolyard]

JUST GREAT:shout: I guess I just suck it up, make it work. and focus on that silver lining


or

get a 120gl to fit the lights:cool:

[lReef lKeeper]

now there is an idea !! i guess a bigger tank would be the BEST OPTION in the situation !! the 2 250's woul dbe PERFECT over a 120 !!

[Phurst]

JUST GREAT:shout: I guess I just suck it up, make it work. and focus on that silver lining


or

get a 120gl to fit the lights:cool:


LOL, that IS a silver lining!

Wait, how big is your neighbors tank? You could really show him up :D