New Tank

[blev]

hello all,

i found talking reef on google and you guys have really helped me understand more just by reading the forums,

i ahve some questions,

first off when i went to my lfs he had given me saltwater the nutri water and i filled my 30 gallon with it as well as about i think 10 or 15 pounds of live rock, and 2 bags of live sand, he told me come back a few days later to buy some fish, me being new ot this followed his instructions, as well as he sold me a skilyer whihc i honestly hate, in any case the level sin the tank seem to be doing very well and the live rock has color coming on to it and seems to be moving along very well, he sold me three fish a tomato clownfish and blue tang and another clown, they are eating well and seem to have acclimated well to the tank, and he also sold me a cleaning crew,

now i hate the skilter so i purchased the eheim pro 2 canister filter and installed and love it, but still ahve the skilter up as i have not had time to buy a hang on back skimmer (any suggestions?)

again as i said before im new ot this and as im reading all that is written here i should have not gone so fast but now i dont have as much time as i tought i would meaning instaed of 5 hours tinkering with everything i only have about an hour a day, and not every day can i go to the lfs as they are a 20 minute drive from my house and in the evening its no picnic.

so my questions are what suggestion do the experts have for me in terms of keeping this tank going in the right direction, my ph was a drop low so i am using the buffer, btw i found a much better lfs store in the city but cant go there everyday as that would just be commiting suicde, and yesterday i put the cleaning crew into action and now i realize some are missing and my eheim moved all the sand around and covered some of the cleaning crew so the ones that didnt make it i took out and the ones that are still there are just moving their way through the live rock like they havent ever been fed, i ahve trace elements for the live rock and give it about twice a week, and i change the water once a week, please dont come down to hard on me as the guy in the store really seemed to know his stuff, but im reading here that maybe he thinks he knows more than he should suggest.

thanks for all the help you guys can give and a happyt new year

[poppin_fresh]

I am sorry to say that I think you where misled by the first store. That store was looking out for themselves and the quick buck they could make. If they really did you give you that advice, I would recommend you never waste your time or money there again. I'm glad you realized that you needed some more advice and you came to see us.

Putting those three fish in such a new tank may be a disaster. Tomato clowns can be VERY mean and they can get large like the Blue tang. They will need more space than a 30 gallon tank can offer them. I would try to trade them for credit or give them to someone who has room for them. The other clown (I'm assuming an Ocellaris or similar) should be fine in your tank for now.

As far as the Buffer and supplements for the LR...stop adding them. Adding "stuff" with out knowing how and why will cause you problems.

Do you have Itunes on your computer?

[blev]

yes i have itunes on my computer,

also the reason for the buffer is because i measured the ph and it was a little low and the new store i went to sold me the buffer and explained me exactly how to use it and meanwhile levels ahve remained the same.

what fish dou suggest i put in instead of the other 2?

[poppin_fresh]

Because you have Itunes you should subscribe and download the Talkingreef podcasts... just type talkingreef into the search. Start at the beginning and listen to them all, there is a TON of info that you can listen to for free!

What was the PH when you tested it? Acceptable range is 7.8-8.4. If you are with in that range, leave it alone.

I wouldn't add any other fish just yet. Do some more reading and research first. With a 30 gallon tank you need to select fish that will outgrow or not get stressed out from being in small tank. You may want to look at something like Firefish, small Gobies, Chromis, smaller Wrasses, etc., but not all at once! Take your time or you WILL BE DISSAPOINTED.

[blev]

my ph was 7.2 thats why i didnt like that as i knew its to low, i dont plan on adding anything at this point, and the idea for which fish is greatly appreciated, i would liek to get more live rock as i definitly dont have enough an my setup doesn look that great, but im afraid of doing it while there fish and cleaning crew in there but ill figure somethingout, however how does eveyone get the rock in such great formation am i missing something here?

also what do u think about the skimmer ? are you familiar at all with the ehim pro 2?

[lReef lKeeper]

i REALLY suggest that you listen to these, as they are the reason that the site is called TALKINGreef ...

Talkingreef - Podcast Episodes (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/podcast-episodes/)

with iTunes you can listen to them on your computer. they are all free and you can load them to your iPod so you can take them along with you. i guess you can call the podcasts a labor of love for us. i also suggest starting from the beginning, and joining us on the LIVE shows starting on the first sunday of the new year (i think). the podcasts will REALLY help to explain things in great detail when you are getting started.

as for everything else ... i agree with poppin_fresh. that LFS was out to get your money. try to trade in the tomato clown and the blue tang, as your tank will not be big enough for them for very long.

[blev]

i will definitly do that very soon, what do u say about adding ore live rock?

[lReef lKeeper]

i would add 1-2 lbs per gallon of water. so with a 30g tank i would probably go with about 35-40 lbs.

[poppin_fresh]

You can raise the PH by adding some surface agitation for increased oxegenation. This can be accomplished by the use of a powerhead for increased flow in the tank.

Adding live rock is fine as long as its cured. Meaning that its been in a tank for at least several weeks. Many better LFSs LR is cured by them for many weeks before they will sell it.

[blev]

i ahve a powerhead, sorry i forgot to mention that, as for the cured live rock i ahve been to afew place around and cant find anyone who keeps its, i live in brooklyn ny if anyone knows of a good or greatand honest store i can go to andget some more in person help please advise.

[lReef lKeeper]

try Marco Rocks The finest aquarium rock available, base rock, live rock, reef rock, marco rock, reef tank saltwater fish, live corals, Marco rocks, Fiji live rock, Tonga Live rock (http://www.marcorocks.com) as they have some of the NICEST LR that you will find anywhere, but you will have to let it cure in another tank for a few weeks.

you could look through a local fish club's forums for use rock that someone is getting rid of. most of my LFS's sell it, you should be able to find one that has it in stock. just ask someone that works there. they use to hide the rock in the back at a couple of my LFS's.

[poppin_fresh]

Considering that my whole state has a population less than Brooklyn, and we have a couple decent LFSs...you probably have several nearby. I would do a google search for NY city reef clubs.

[CarmieJo]

Hello blev and :welcome: to TR.

Bobby and Jon are giving you good advice.

I have a canister filter that I occasionally use for water polishing but I never run it for more than a day or 2 at a time. I've never used any of the HOB skimmers but Aqua C Remoras and CPR Backpacks have a good reputation.

Your LR is your primary filtration. If you buy uncured live rock you can cure it in a Rubbermaid tote filled with saltwater. Drop in a heater and a powerhead and let it circulate until ammonia and nitrite both equal zero. It will not need more than room light. You can do the same thing with base rock like Marco Rocks sells. Base rock should not take as long to "cure" as LR.

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Blev and welcome! I have a Remora C skimmer on my 20g nano tank and I am very pleased with it. And when it comes to the LFS, do your homework first before you go see them. They are a nightmare in the making. :bash:

[CarmieJo]

There are good LFS but as a newcomer to the hobby it is hard to know if you are getting good advice or not. So come here and ask before buying anything. When the advice the LFS gives you coincides with what the majority of folks here are telling you you know you have found a winner!

[chris]

the only advise i have is be very patient and read, read, read. there are some bad and good lfs out there. looking at their tanks is a good indicator. i have seen some that are disasterous!! looking at them makes you want to buy there fish to save them lol. the podcasts here are a great source of information. dont get in a hurry, read all you can, and ask questions if you dont understand. it takes time for the tank to mature, and even more time to learn what's is going on with your tank.

[blev]

ok,

i ordered the remora c as well as a proper set of testing equipment as i am missing some, my nitrate test shows i am at 0 and phospate shows like 0.75 i dont know if that is to high or what, i think the ph tester i ahve is no good, and my clacium is at 350 according to my tests, some of the cleaning crew died while others are just eating away at everything, some of the rocks are getting great color, however i cant see under them but alof of the cleaning crew has really taken to the underparts of everything, the top of the rocks now alot has happend to it it looks like the color is changing on it but cant really tell.

so let me know what im doing good and what im not doing good here, also i think my power head stopped working but im trying to figure that out, but my pro 2 is also creating waves so im sure that helps and its really keeping the tank clean..

thanks all for the advise and help

[chris]

aqua-c makes a really good skimmer. I have never used a Remora but do have a larger aqua-c. the nitates at 0 is good. as for the phosphates this is what my kit says, " If the phosphate level is higher than 0.04 mg/L the growth rate of corals and calcareous algae may decrease by as much as 90%". And you can get some undesirable algae growing with high phosphates. So yes your phosphates are high if the kit is reading in mg/L which i assume it does. You can run some carbon to try and knock down the phosphates. Do you use frozen foods? If so you should thaw and rinse the foods in a mesh screen if possible. Frozen foods have high phosphates. Maybe check the phosphate level in the water you are adding for evaporation. When you get a out of range reading it's as important to find the source of the problem as getting the readings in range. Hope some of this helps.

[blev]

i need a hang on back protein skimmer and was advised this was a good one, once i ahveall my testing equipment it will easier for me to know whats going on

[poppin_fresh]

I had a Remora when I had a 29. I was always happy with it, especially for its size.

[chris]

ive heard the remora is good. i agree a good kit is the first step. but if you have consistent readings of high phosphate now then i would start looking for the source. and getting them down. as for the stocking of the fish i have made the mistake in the past of getting excited about my new tank and buying either too many fish and not researching fish compatability and other factors. Such as how large they will grow. how hardy they are. what size tank do they require. etc... i think everyone has probably done that once. overstocking will bring on nothing but being miserable. it will take time to balance out. and even then there will be limits to what you can keep. i would add critters and fish slowly. another mistake i have made is getting new equipment and not thinking through the best place to put it and plumbing it in correctly. ive had pipes and wires all over the place lol. try and think down the road a little when you are setting up new equipment. the equipment is gonna have to be serviced regularly so plan accordingly to make life easier. well im tapped out on my advice. that's about all i know. happy reefing. oh and welcome to TR.

[R. Deschain]

Your high phosphates might just be part of the cycle.

When I started my tank, and it was going through the initial cycle, PO4 was 4.0 (not .4 or .04, but 4.0!) The die off on the live rock that is generating the cycle may be releasing PO4. Also, some live rock is saturated with phosphates, and slowly leach it out over time. After 8 months and employing all of the stategies below (minus the kalkwasser), PO4 as of yesterday was .003. :)

Some stategies to lower phosphates:

While cycling...(Some may recommend not doing anything at all...)

1) Frequent water changes -- (dilutes it out)

2) Using a phosphate absorbing media (Phos-Ban for example) -- (direct removal)

After livestock added:

3) Limiting the use of flake food -- (often contain phosphorous containg compounds)

4) Rinsing off frozen food -- (ditto, but less so)

5) Add macroalgae to a refugium (ie cheato) -- (PO4 becomes sequestered in the cheato ball)

6) Using Kalkwasser drip in top-off water to maintain alk & calcium -- (precipitates out PO4)

[Skurvey Dog]

Blev,

When I got my skimmer I also got the box that you could add other mediums to. I used it for a while, but in a nano, I felt that it took up too much room so I did away with it. I have always had problems with Phosphates in my nano due to using simple sand as part of the DSB to cut costs. I know, a stupid newbie mistake, but we all live and learn. You really have to watch those, phosphates, as if it gets high you will have to deal with nuisance algeas and all the problems associated with it. High phosphates also will cause your coraline algea not to grow so well. Water quality, all the way around, is very important. Our course I am not a pro, but in my own personal experiences, this is what I have found.

[blev]

ok, so i am adding some calcium cause my clacium is low, can some explain what the lkawasser is and how its used?

[R. Deschain]

First off, what is your calcium and how are you checking it? (Check out podcast #68 - it's a video of Rob showing you how to check your calcium with a Salifert kit) You should also check your alkalinity.

Unless i'm mistaken, you haven't yet put any corals in your tank, so I bet your calcium requirements are low.

I've never used Kalkwasser before. Just know that it's usually added to a tank by mixing pickling lime into fresh RO/DI top-off water. Probably best added via an auto top-off system or a kalk reactor. I'd really look into it and research as much as possible first. This goes for just about every other aspect of keeping a saltwater/reef tank as well :)

[lReef lKeeper]

i agree with James.

what are you planning on keeping in the tank ?? softies ?? LPS ?? SPS ??

there are all types of ways to raise calcium, the key is not throwing your ALK, or Mag. off at the same time.

[R. Deschain]

You might also check out this article to learn more about Calcium and alkalinity.

Calcium and Alkalinity by Randy Holmes Farley (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php)

[R. Deschain]

Actually, this article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm)might be a bit better.

[chris]

i have read the randy holmes farley article but the advanced aquarist is a good article. i was wondering if it would be easier for a beginner with a smaller tank to just use a 2 part dose for calcium and alk. like b-ionic. i've never had a nano but i would imagine kalk could very easily be overdosed without a ph controller and a good reactor.

[poppin_fresh]

I would use the B-ionic in a small tank. The gallon two part kits should last quite a while on a smaller tank. Plus its a balanced system, so its easier for a beginner (with a decent test kit) to use.

[V]

most definately, some of the bottle or dry store edditions are perfect for small tanks, & many will not overdose you Alk or PH even with mis-management

[CarmieJo]

I use a 2-part in my nano and drip kalk in my 54 corner.