Are you thinking about picking that Vortech pump that everone has been raving about? You might want to read this thread if you have an acrylic tank.


Reef Central Online Community - OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1266688&perpage=25&pagenumber=21)

Not every one is having that issue. I think a lot of might have to do with the thickness of jnarowe's and the fact he cant use the spacers. It will be interesting to see how the whole thing plays out.

True. But then maybe Eco-Tech should revise the specs for their pumps and say that these shouldn't be used on certain tank's thickness.

jnarowe cannot use the spacer due to the thickness of his tank. He also could not run the Vortech at 100% power without the temperature on the motor reaching 140F and more.

Give it time, these are new products and the more people use these on acrylic tanks, in time the more these kind of issues will come up.

LOL what a surprise another RC argument,
There may be some good info over there but I can never seem to get through a thread.

I just read (part of) the RC thread. Man am I glad I don't post over there. Just another example of why TR is the best and most useful online reef forum.
Anyway, I'm no expert (unlike every single person posting on RC), but I have two VorTechs connected with their wireless controllers and the system has been working great - just as advertised. The tank is glass (210gal), but unlike the RC posts, the wireless connection works fine and the pulsing is set at about 7 seconds without any issues. The flow is insane. Just my $0.02. Jay

My buddy has a Vortech and he doesn't have that problem... acrylic tank too!

wow, how many pages of posts....

I've heard nothing but good reviews on the vortechs and havent run into anyone having a problem, from the reading the specifications on the tank are a little on the light side anyhow. I think it's just a matter of operational environments being discovered and adjusted... Like the first guy to find out why you dont take bottles of beer up in an unpressurized airplane cockpit.

I have 2 vortechs on a 75 aga. I did have a problem with one pump over heating and making excessive noise. I talked to the engineer at ecotech and described the problem. The pump was upgraded to the newer version and shipped on their dime.

I think problems will arise with a new product such as the vortech, but they showed me they will stand by there product.

I could'nt finish that thread either...you get a lot of endless arguing at r/c (I think that thread was 30+ pages long !)

That's why I'm here. :p

Two words:

Tunze Nanostream

One last word:

Seio

If it goes bad, they give you a new one. Beat that.

Like the first guy to find out why you dont take bottles of beer up in an unpressurized airplane cockpit.


arrr that was me, & it saved me bringing a bottle opener :tongue2:

I have the Tunze streams in my tank and I LOVE them....great flow!

My word.

Koralia pumps. (http://www.theculturedreef.com/koralia.htm)

Dick

I have two Vortechs recently moved to the back wall of my 110 tall. I had to throttle down to about 10-15% so my torches wouldn't blow away. I love the flow and no heat and I sleep much better at night knowing I have battery backup. Their customer service when I needed it was topnotch. Just my two bits.

I have two Vortechs recently moved to the back wall of my 110 tall. I had to throttle down to about 10-15% so my torches wouldn't blow away. I love the flow and no heat and I sleep much better at night knowing I have battery backup. Their customer service when I needed it was topnotch. Just my two bits.

I also am very happy with my single Vortech (with wireless wave driver and battery backup). Produces enough broad flow around the tank to keep detritus suspended (and push the sand a bit), and I only have it on at maybe 30% on my 55g. I've had to apply epoxy putty under one frag mount (so far) to keep the Vortech from tipping it over. The "Reefcrest" mode randomizes the intensity somewhat, and the battery backup has already proven its use during two power outages.

As far as noise is concerned, once I aligned the wet and dry sides by looking through my tank, its been running extremely quiet. Only in "Pulse" mode can you hear the pump rev up and down, and barely at that.

At 30%, my Vortech doesn't produce much heat. At most, barely warm on the dry side.

Right so you bought the pump to run at 30%? Kinda a waste IMO.

Right so you bought the pump to run at 30%? Kinda a waste IMO.

Flame on dude.

I've got a 55g tank. Should I run it at 3000gph and have my DSB torn asunder?

I estimate it is at 1000g<->1200g right now, and my return is another 300gph. That is 22-28 times turnover of broad (non-laminar) flow in a largely non-sps tank, which is more than enough from what I've read.

The Vortech also transfers nearly zero heat to the tank, doesn't look like an eyesore, and has wave modes so current is randomized somewhat.

Sure I could have gone cheaper with a retrofit maxijet or two, but then I would have cords draping over my frameless, open-top tank - which somewhat defeats the purpose.

[QUOTE=rroselavy;69386]I also am very happy with my single Vortech (with wireless wave driver and battery backup). Produces enough broad flow around the tank to keep detritus suspended (and push the sand a bit), and I only have it on at maybe 30% on my 55g.

RRoselavy,

I had the same problem with the undertow and sand moving quite a bit...I turned the finger guard with the solid part facing the bottom. Problem solved. :up:

I had the same problem with the undertow and sand moving quite a bit...I turned the finger guard with the solid part facing the bottom. Problem solved. :up:

Good idea Gimmito. I had the solid part facing up, thinking that it would reduce vortex action. I just rotated it as you mentioned, and it allows me to increase the flow just a bit more before I start seeing my oolitic DSB particles start to launch into the water column. A little increase is better than nothing!

-Scott

Right so you bought the pump to run at 30%? Kinda a waste IMO.

Not a waste at all. I don't think 95% of the people that own Vortechs need them to do 3000 gph. Since this is the only model they make, it's the only choice you have if you want all the cool features of the pump, which there are many. There is nothing wrong with having overhead in case you decide to rearrange your tank or get a bigger tank in the future. Plus the variability is key. How do I know I need 1763 gph in one set up and 982 in another? I've bought many powerheads that are too big and too little, now I'm done for good. The aquascaping and corals decide the flow you need and with most pumps your stuck with either ON of OFF. Oh, and if you're going to flame anyone, try RC, they like it better over there.

Not a waste at all. I don't think 95% of the people that own Vortechs need them to do 3000 gph. Since this is the only model they make, it's the only choice you have if you want all the cool features of the pump, which there are many.

When I first received the Vortech, I was surprised how big it was. From product photos, I had imagined that it was about 75% of its actual size. I started to think, wouldn't it be cool if they came out with a pump that was 1500gph, and smaller for smaller tanks. Unfortunately, it probably wouldn't be that much cheaper for them to produce, and it would narrow the flow.


There is nothing wrong with having overhead in case you decide to rearrange your tank or get a bigger tank in the future.

Exactly. Just don't tell my wife that we discussed getting a bigger tank. :tongue2:

Oh, and if you're going to flame anyone, try RC, they like it better over there.

Perhaps I over reacted to D's comment. I took it as inflammatory, but perhaps I should just be less defensive. The Vortech does cost a good deal of money; in many ways, much less expensive options could be just as effective.

RROSELAVY:

Only if you promise not to tell my wife how much my new Solaris I4 cost:eek:

I think the vortechs are great and it might be a little apples to oranges but I certainly didn't buy a 500 watt stereo system so I could listen to it at full blast. Where do you guys have yours placed. I'm thinking about moving mine down a bit.

RROSELAVY:

Only if you promise not to tell my wife how much my new Solaris I4 cost:eek:

I think the vortechs are great and it might be a little apples to oranges but I certainly didn't buy a 500 watt stereo system so I could listen to it at full blast. Where do you guys have yours placed. I'm thinking about moving mine down a bit.

My 55g tank is roughly 30"L x 22"W x 19"H. I have mine on the back, which exacerbates my DSB issue, but putting it on one of the ends would make it a curiosity (if not a goal) for my 2 year old. If my tank was 18"W or less, I probably would have found a way to keep it on one of the ends or gone another pump route.

The topmost part of the pump is 5" below the surface. The pump is also 3" to the left of center because my light fixture stand obstruction. This works out OK because I have an open LR arrangement with a gap between the two pieces of LR which helps to channel some flow to the right.

Here's a early FTS

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/front071025.jpg

Nice tank! I've got mine on the back too but I think they might be a little high up to keep detritus off the bottom. I have more of a wall effect going and I think maybe "upwelling" would be better than the downdraft I'm getting. So you're a Solaris owner too? I just got mine Tuesday and love it so far. Already had my 10 year old Ricordias "color up" after 2 days! I'll work on a fts this weekend.

Not a waste at all. I don't think 95% of the people that own Vortechs need them to do 3000 gph. Since this is the only model they make, it's the only choice you have if you want all the cool features of the pump, which there are many. There is nothing wrong with having overhead in case you decide to rearrange your tank or get a bigger tank in the future. Plus the variability is key. How do I know I need 1763 gph in one set up and 982 in another? I've bought many powerheads that are too big and too little, now I'm done for good. The aquascaping and corals decide the flow you need and with most pumps your stuck with either ON of OFF. Oh, and if you're going to flame anyone, try RC, they like it better over there.

I think it's more like you are flamming me buddy.
Chill out already... :eek:

They are great pumps alright if you're into "gadgets" and empty promises like the wireless controller that is not really wireless and has more wiring that my MJ mods... Oh did I mention that it only works by line of sight? What the hell kind of hooptie wireless controller is that?

Oh yeah don't forget that it is expected/recommended that you replace the wetside (at your cost) every 18 months, a pretty expensive ongoing maintenance cost if you ask me.

Firstly id like to say im nutral in this disscussion/ flame match, cause we dont have their newer stuff down here yet.

Secondly id like to discuss this with everyone, although dirrected more-so at D comments so far.

Your points are definately valid on some levels bud, however keep in mind someones got to be on the consumer arm of development. Companies are forever bringing out the new & improved gear based on their R&D & consumer feed back. . Buy it, like it, love it, hate it, each to their own. If your a radio shack kinda person then i guess you have probable cause to bitch about the line of site controller & its functionality, but i ask you, whats the point in changing settings in another part of the house when you cant see whats happening. Its a cool,versatile & funky freedom gimick, nothing more, & its just a suggestion but id treat it as such with the notion that its equiptment with a primary static function first & formost.

Second point id like to bring up is 18 months on replacement parts in my opinion is not a bad shelf life, considering its the life blood of your tank & on 24hrs a day for almost 2 years with little to no incident sounds pretty good to me. If everyone wasn't trying to stuff the entire diversities of the oceans into their tanks you'd find you wouldn't be harping to the same degree about routine costs.

Just food for thought anyways, feel free to flame me though, cause it makes for good threads when you get me started! :)

http://www.allemoticons.com/Evil/flame.gifhttp://www.allemoticons.com/Evil/flame.gifhttp://www.allemoticons.com/Evil/flame.gif

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/787_flame_thrower_gun.gif

how's that for some heat V?! :D

I actually saw the Vortechs in action at the ReefStock meeting in Denver last month. Jake had them set up to produce waves, and I really liked the flow. I have no idea how it would work with a DSB though...it was just set up in a empty tank.

I love my Tunze streams, although I have to admit that I'm having a B of a time at the moment keeping the sand down. Especially after having purchased two sand gobies that swim around the tank stirring everything up. Everything that sifts through their gills gets caught up in the current and swept around the tank. I have to blow off all my rocks now every few days...quite a pain.

I think it's more like you are flamming me buddy.
Chill out already... :eek:

They are great pumps alright if you're into "gadgets" and empty promises like the wireless controller that is not really wireless and has more wiring that my MJ mods... Oh did I mention that it only works by line of sight? What the hell kind of hooptie wireless controller is that?

Oh yeah don't forget that it is expected/recommended that you replace the wetside (at your cost) every 18 months, a pretty expensive ongoing maintenance cost if you ask me.

I don't really understand what you mean by "chill out", as I don't see any heat in my reply but if you were offended, I apologize. No, I'm not a shill for Vortech and I do take offense at that. I like the pumps and I guess you don't so there you have it.

and Veriann, I wouldn't know how to flame you except to say maybe that Foster's is your favorite beer!:tongue2:

Firstly id like to say im nutral in this disscussion/ flame match, cause we dont have their newer stuff down here yet.

Secondly id like to discuss this with everyone, although dirrected more-so at D comments so far.

Your points are definately valid on some levels bud, however keep in mind someones got to be on the consumer arm of development. Companies are forever bringing out the new & improved gear based on their R&D & consumer feed back. . Buy it, like it, love it, hate it, each to their own. If your a radio shack kinda person then i guess you have probable cause to bitch about the line of site controller & its functionality, but i ask you, whats the point in changing settings in another part of the house when you cant see whats happening. Its a cool,versatile & funky freedom gimick, nothing more, & its just a suggestion but id treat it as such with the notion that its equiptment with a primary static function first & formost.

Second point id like to bring up is 18 months on replacement parts in my opinion is not a bad shelf life, considering its the life blood of your tank & on 24hrs a day for almost 2 years with little to no incident sounds pretty good to me. If everyone wasn't trying to stuff the entire diversities of the oceans into their tanks you'd find you wouldn't be harping to the same degree about routine costs.

Just food for thought anyways, feel free to flame me though, cause it makes for good threads when you get me started! :)



V-

I agree with some of what you said about the R&D process and trust me I've been involved in R&D (both software and hardware) long enough to know how this works. That said though, the Vortech has been out for quite a while now and if anything their quality control should have gotten better not worse. Their customer service (provided by IceCap) is second to none granted but a great product should not require so much servicing especially when the pumps are brand new. Just a quick browse to their vendor forum on RC will give you an idea as to the problems people are having Reef Central Online Community - EcoTech Marine (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=501) If you ask me I think IceCap got a lemon out of this partnership with EcoTech.

As for the 18 month replacement period, this is not a sign of a great product, especially after you just shelled out $350 for the pump now you are expected to shell out an additional $60 every 18 months. Reef Central Online Community - Rust on my 2 month ols Vortechs (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1352429)
It is never normal to see oxidation (rust) like that on a magnet. Heck my Maxijets and Tunze never needed anything replaced and they are over 5 years old.

Agreed that most people do not need to run a 3000 gph pump at full blast in their tanks but for some (like me) the flow is definitely required. In my honest opinion, if the Vortech cannot be run at 100% capacity then EcoTech needs to revise their rating of this product and state this accordingly. It's their false advertisement and empty promises that really get to me.

The line of sight thing is definitely a problem when you have things (accidental or otherwise) obstructing it. Try walking between the wireless controller and the pump and see what happens. And where is the night mode that was promised by EcoTech? Tunze can do all these things so why can't these guys get their act together over there at EcoTech?

and Veriann, I wouldn't know how to flame you except to say maybe that Foster's is your favorite beer!:tongue2:


There are much better beers in OZ than Foster's which is the Aussie equivalence to the American Budweiser (aka piss) IMO. :rotfl:

Hey D:

Yes I know about Foster's, that was my subtle attempt at humor, I only drank VB when I was down there. About the wireless feature, I think it needs some explaing as you have it half right. The wireless feature is between two (or more, up to 10 I believe) controllers not the pump and the controller. If you have one pump it is a useless feature. I posted over at RC that I thought it was a little silly since you have wires going from the power supply to the controller and from the controller to the pump, what would another thin wire mean between controllers? Not much considering I also have a thin wire running from my battery backup. I have both controllers right next to each other so the sight line issue (between the controllers) is not a problem but it could be for some mounting options. Do you have the pumps? You started this thread noting that there are issues with some plexi tanks which I think is a horrible problem and you are right to bring it up. I had a plexi tank and hated it but would have hated it even more if I bought my votechs and crazed it. I agree about the night mode but I still like the pumps a lot. The purpose of these threads is for people to give real world experience, right?

Matt

Is there a cliff notes version of the thread on RC? I wouldn't even begin to wade through there.

Is there a cliff notes version of the thread on RC? I wouldn't even begin to wade through there.


You should check out the recently split thread on the Solaris Leds over there, it's why I like TR better.

:bash:

Can't We All Just Get Along ? Lol.

RB, im feeling your love/ warmth already :D

As for Ozzie beer, i try not to drink it much these days, cause its reaching import prices, & its more exotic to drink anything with a tag "import" lol
Besides, you should try some of my homebrew! Ive redefined the blend between ozzie & mexican beer! :raining: Just dont ask what the secret ingredient is? :o


Guys, If you going to banter with each other - thats how to do it! well done!
At the end of the day, after we have ping ponged ideas & opinions back & forth between eachother we walk away with a mutual respect, if not for eachother,at the very least for the site, thats the key differences between us, & say RC.
Now- next person that brings up that parasitical salt board again im going to shootem! .lol No...J/K, Im just going to hurt them alittle bit.:unsure:


Now just to put some perspective on my question here, $60 is a case of my above mentioned import beer, which takes about 4-6hrs socal drinking to consume, I just wanted to add that to put the costs of routine maintanence or renewal of equiptment. Having said that, to replace it due to potential rusting, thats not good. Whats the coating material made from?

You should check out the recently split thread on the Solaris Leds over there, it's why I like TR better.

RC is a wealth of information that is often hard to reach. Tanks threads that are largely comprised of OT chit-chat are a bit hard to wade through. I find it laughable that people congratulate eachother on a thread "split" when it is largely the product of OT banter.

I am not adverse to civil arguments, after all I am part Italian. Our dinner table was filled with passionate discussion when I was young.

---

Regarding the Vortech, I think Ecotech has made the pumps limitations quite clear in the manuals and FAQs. No one has presented clear data on what percentage of Vortechs have QC issues, so I am not sure it is fair to use "lemon" language to describe a situation with which we are not privy.

The Vortech's design clearly exposes vulnerabilities that Maxijets and Tunze pumps do not have, and a company cannot always predict every environment that their product will be used. I know consumers are sometimes quick to take the consumers side, but one cannot assume that Ecotech was liable in this situation. Perhaps they were, perhaps they were not. It sounds as if the pump, despite the tank owner's attempts to down-throttle, got stuck on full blast and went unnoticed until the crazing had occurred. Is this Ecotech's fault that the pump malfunctioned? Perhaps... Is it the fault of the tank owner that there was not enough ventilation for the worst case scenario? Perhaps... It is hard to say without getting both sides and examining the tank.

Does this make Ecotech liars and false advertisers? The pumps can be pushed to 3000gph, and the motor will heat up to 145-150 degrees. The environment has to accommodate that.

Now, let me turn on my own tank. What if my Vortech got stuck on full blast, and my DSB got plowed and ALL my inhabitants died as a result. Would that make me mad? YES. Would that make me seek compensation? Probably, but IMHO, seeking is different than expecting. I know that the Vortech's capabilities (3000gph) can tear my tank up pretty bad, and that it runs by a controller board (computer), which means mechanical error AND electronic error put my tank at more risk than a simple Maxijet. At least with a traditional 1500gph pump, you do not have this type of risk.

Let us take this one step further. Let's say I used Maxijets instead, and deployed the crappy suction cup mounts to hold my Maxijets in place. A few weeks, perhaps months down the road my suction cups fail and my DSB gets torn up - Is the Maxijet manufacturer responsible for the resulting damage?