I recently listened to the latest podcast live session and the ideas of different sand media was brought up. I have always used the more expensive live sand and mixed with dead aquarium sand in my tanks but I have a 190g i was looking at setting up and buying all that much sand is expensive, however I live in FL within about an hour of the beach...could i simply use beach crushed coral sand/whatever sand is there? I realize this may bring in some fun hitch-hikers but are there any other drawbacks? Is it basically the same as the sand i buy from my LFS or is it more likely silica based?

I'm not sure if the sand on Florida's coast is Aragonite (calcium) or Quartz. According to some experts a majority of the worlds ocean sand is Quartz based and so I dont see the harm in using it. I would make sure that its ok to take it, its a steep fine in some places. I would rinse it really well before I use it.

Is it illegal to remove sand from the beaches? I lived in Florida (Sarasota) for a few years and there was always posted information about protecting the beaches and conserving the sand. I've seen the same thing in North Carolina, also.

I'll have to find out because if it isnt fort desoto here I come

You might also check with Dick at The Cultured Reef about aragonite (http://www.theculturedreef.com/aragonite.htm). Aragonite is definitely better because of it's buffering capacity. I think that he is about an hour away from Orlando.

okay thanks

That has long been debated wether a sandbed which is for the most part "idle", has any effect on the buffering capability of the system. IMO, a sandbed is more useful as a media for bacterial filtration. Most aragonites don't break down until the pH has been dropped down to around 6.5 or so, which is why we use Co2 in our Ca Reactors. Since the pH in our tanks is hopefully higher than that, I wouldn't expect any buffering to be done by your aragonite sand bed.

In this article Product Review - My Dialyseas Saga: Pros and Cons by Ken Feldman - Reefkeeping.com (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/pr/index.php) it states " I don't have a value for the Ksp of CaCO3 at pH = 7.0; Holmes-Farley supplies one for aragonite at pH = 8.2, natural seawater: Ksp = 6.5 x 10-7 M2/L2 at 25°C. (Holmes-Farley, 2002)." This Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine - Chemistry and the Aquarium: Calcium (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/3/chemistry) is the referenced article.

My understanding is that at pH 8.2 aragonite is soluble and able to provide buffering. At a pH of about 7.7 the aragonite (chemically it is CaCO3) begins to dissolve or break into its component elements. At a pH of about 6.7 like you would have in a calcium reactor becomes quite effective at raising Ca levels in your tank.

I have done this. I am no expert, in fact far from it, but I have set up and cycled about 7tanks. Once I used regular "buy at lowes" silica sand for a 65 gallon tank. I ended tearing the tank back down and changing the substrate about three weeks into the cycle. I dont know if the sand was the cause but I will not do it again. From about three days into it, I had a brown diatom bloom which proceeded to get worse and worse. The bloom measured about three tenths of an inch deep and covered the entire sandbed. The rest of the tank was covered also but not to that extent. I delt with it hoping things would get better but they did not. I came home from work one friday to a horrid sour smell coming from my tank. I dont know what caused it but im blaming the sand. It was so bad I tore the tank down that evening and started back over replacing the sand with crushed coral. The tank cycled fine the next time.

Carmie, I believe your info would be fine for a pass through reactor, but our sand beds are not. They are a passive part of the system and I believe that one can not expect much in the way of a buffering capacity just by adding agagonite sand to the tank. I have always used aragonite instead of silica or southdown so I can't comment on either of those.

I use white kolorscape sand(playsand or general use) for my 120 and the bag states that it is mostly slica free. Now my tank has been setup for seven monthes with no bad effects. So with my experience I would say its ok to use silca based sand. The one thing to be careful about is the sand getting between the glass cleaner and the glass. Will scratch!!
The snails seem to enjoy it as will. I think if you're dosing your tank properly and testing on a normal basis, you shouldn't be soo worried that your substrate is buffering your water. And if that the only reason to spend hundreds of mmore $'s, than that in my opinion is not worth it.
Just my $.02!!

Mr. Tang

I have a 18 month old nano with play sand (silica) and aragonite sand. I washed the sand and let it dry and then baked it in the oven at 350 for 25 minutes to steralize it. I have to keep a very close eye on the phosphates. With my new tank, I steared clear of silica and just bit the big one. I am under the impression that silica based sand leaches phosphates in low levels. I do not use tap water in my tank and do not over feed either so it's not coming from food containing this. Just my own personal thoughts. Oh and PhotoJohn, you can call your local DNR and they will give you your local area laws on the natural resources there.

That has long been debated wether a sandbed which is for the most part "idle", has any effect on the buffering capability of the system.
It would depend on the type of sandbed. Deep sand bed and shallow sand bed react differently.

IMO, a sandbed is more useful as a media for bacterial filtration.
Any sandbed or porous media is a media for biological filtration.

Most aragonites don't break down until the pH has been dropped down to around 6.5 or so, which is why we use Co2 in oue r Ca Reactors.
The pH of a sand bed varies. A pH of 6.5 in a deep sea bed is common

Since the pH in our tanks is hopefully higher than that, I wouldn't expect any buffering to be done by your aragonite sand bed.
It is not expectation, but simply reality based on chemistry. Run a tank with aragonite and a similiar tank with riverbed gravel and tell me the results.

I'd use the Southdown if it were available in California. I got some Aragonite Reef Mix (not Caribsea but something like Oceans Miracle I think). My local LFS has the crushed coral sand for $40 for 50lbs. The 20lb bags of arag were $13, so I picked up 60 lbs for the same price. I'm not going to use the live sand since IMO its a huge ripoff and its not like there aren't enough overpriced products in this industy already. I plan on Mr. Dead Shrimp and would like to see about a sand swap with some fellow hobbiests, so if anyone know of someone in the Stockton/Modesto area...let me know :)

Jon, I'd make that call to the DNR from a payphone and have a flashlight and skimask handy just in case the anser is no :)

I use silica based sands in fresh water, to include cichlids, but fear that it's just to "rough" on sand bed critters. It is vastly different in shape than oolitic sands. Look at the two under a microscope and you'd know what I mean. I'd rather slither on soft, rounder aragonite than on the jagged silica.

Dave

I was once told it is easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission

I would also hope that forgiveness wasn't offered after a whopping $1,000 fine. :D

ouch, that would be harsh

Just remember though...only if you get caught! :D

True, true. :D They love to use those high powered binoculars and really get off on using them with that green night vision. They're mainly focussed on tooters and tweeters in the dunes. :rotfl: Stay away from sea oats and straw flowers, another fine to help pay for the 5 year plan on beach renourishment.