New to Nano Reefs

[Jerseygirl0398]

Okay so im a newbie :wow: and i have had some trouble i was on the new to salt water forum and i was impressed at the responses i received. I have a 10-15 gallon octagon tank thats the only way i can describe it LOL. i have my water mixed and i put live sand on the bottom and live rock in got my filter going, now i was wondering if i needed anything else. The marine fish store i was at last night told me i wouldnt need a protein skimmer because the live rock already does all that you need it to. I am not sure now what to do if i should buy a protein skimmer or not, and is there anything else i need to have, i have the basics the light the filter the heater that sort of stuff but is there anything else i need?. I could use a few pointers. I dont have any fish in yet because the marine fish store guy told me that i had to wait at least two months before putting anything live in there besides the live rock, he said that after two months i should start with damsels, and maybe a cleaner shrimp to properly acclimate the tank itself. and then move on to clown fish and or a few different kinds of fish. Im kinda iffy about the damsels because ive read that they are okay and easy and gentle when they are young but they get older and aggresive which kind of makes me uneasy because if i want to put any other fish in i dont want them to kill the new fish. Any adivice? ;)

[Phurst]

Welcome back!

A protein skimmer is not strictly necessary, especially if it's going to be a fish only tank. That being said, I would still encourage you to think about getting one. Especially in a small tank, water quality can drop very quickly, and a protein skimmer can help keep that from happening. I don't believe you've ever mentioned having a sump, so I guess you'll need a hang-on model. The Aqua-C Remora is a great little hang-on skimmer, and used ones can be picked up pretty cheap. BTW, LR does NOT do the same thing as a skimmer. A skimmer removes dissolved organic compounds from the water, whereas LR harbors bacteria that break down fish waste.

Besides the skimmer, if you're planning on trying an anemone again, or any type of coral, you'll need a new light. The stock light is not nearly enough. If you're going fish only, then the light you have is just fine.

I'd also encourage you to skip the damsels. They can be very aggressive and a real PITA to catch. If clowns are what you want, then go ahead with them instead of the damsels. They're pretty tough, and assuming your water is settled and stable in a month or two, they should be just fine.

There are just a few other items I'd recommend, that you may or may not already have.

1) a good set of test kits. At a minimum you'll want ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. If you're planning on keeping corals, you'll need calcium, alkalinity and magnesium too.

2) Either a refractometer or hydrometer to measure the salinity of your water. Salinity can change very quickly in a small tank, and should be closely monitored.

3) RO/DI water. I'd recommend either buying pre-mixed salt water from the LFS made with RO/DI rater, or picking up a RO/DI filter so you can make your own. Using good, clean water is key in this hobby.

[CarmieJo]

In addition to what he said ^^ if you do not get an ammonia spike from the new rock you added you will need a source of starter ammonia. There are lots of ways to do this but I just throw a raw table shrimp in the tank for a couple of days.

Water will evaporate from your tank. When this happens the salt is left behind and you will need to replace the evaporated water with plain RO/DI water.

[Jerseygirl0398]

Okay that sounds great! the LFS aslo gave us Started bacteria do you think we should add it he said we should but i dont know if we should. Also we have a test kit for the PH, the Ammonia and the nitrate, nitrate. I hanvt tested it yet but i will when i get done on here. now about the RO/DI water. we have the mix kind and weve been mixing it ourselves and we have the hydrometer and have been using this to make sure the salinity is right. Are we going wrong doing this? man i must sound really dumb LOL

[Phurst]

I don't think it will hurt to add the bacteria. It may not help, but I doubt it will hurt.

I would start testing ASAP so you know if/when your cycle is complete, and it's safe to start stocking. You should see a small ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite and nitrate spike due to adding the new LR and LS. Like Carmie said, if you don't see an ammonia spike in a couple of days, toss a piece of raw, unseasoned shrimp in the tank for a couple of days to kick things off. Once ammonia and nitrite test at 0 for a couple of days in a row, do a small water change, and begin stocking with a few snails/crabs and maybe a shrimp. After another week of steady water readings, you can add your clowns. I will add at this point, that a 10-15 gallon tank will be pretty much fully stocked with a pair of clowns and a handful of snails/crabs/shrimp. You could maybe get away with the anemone once you upgrade to the proper light.

As for the water. You mean you are mixing your own saltwater, correct? Are you using plain old tap water? If so, that's a no-no. It's typicaly cheaper to mix your own water, but you'll either want to buy RO/DI water from the LFS, buy a RO/DI unit and make your own, or use distilled water from the grocery store. Tap water contains all kinds of chemicals and metals you really want to keep out of your tank.

[CarmieJo]

The other option on the water is a water machine at a grocery store like you would refill jugs for a water cooler with. Around here, Whole Foods has RO/DI and Wal-Mart has RO.

[Jerseygirl0398]

Awesome, that really helps. Yea we are mixing our own salt water, but now that you mention the RO i will get that asap. we used water condioner after we used the tap water to fix the impurites the LFS we went to said to use that then add the salt maybe i did it wrong?

[Jerseygirl0398]

the first store did give us pretty crappy advice

[CarmieJo]

There are a few problems with relying on a water conditioner. The first is that it can neutralize chlorine but not the ammonia that is in chloramine. These days chlorine is rarely used, instead most utilities disinfect their water with chloramine. Even if you are using well water with no chemicals added to disinfect it, there are a lot of things in our drinking water like phosphate, nitrite, nitrate, etc that you don't want in your tank. They will just cause you problems down the road. Finally, if the pH of your tap water is low it can cause copper to leach from your pipes and the copper will kill your inverts.

[Jerseygirl0398]

what sort of RO do i get?

[CarmieJo]

Do you mean to buy your own system or by the gallon at the store?

[Jerseygirl0398]

buy my own system

[CarmieJo]

I have a Watts Premier system but a lot of people here have one they have bought on eBay for about $100. I am sure that one of them will post the brand soon. Make sure that you get a TDS meter when you get the unit, that is the only way you can tell it is working properly.

[Jasonanatal]

Jersey Girl, first of all welcome to the Talking Reef. You are in the right place to meet people that will help answer all your questions and guide you to maintaining a successful Marine Aquarium. The first and best advice that I can give you before reocmmending that you run our and purchase all sorts of equipment that you download all of the Talking Reef Podcast and listen to them. They are what I listened to when I irst got into the hobby and 2 years later I'm keeping a successful Reef Aquarium. What part of New Jersey?

[Jerseygirl0398]

Im in Southern New Jersey LOL. .. KInda Near cape may and wildwood and ocean city .. basically near the ocean LOL..

[Jerseygirl0398]

alright so iom trying to check out these podcasts but i cant figure out how to get to where i gotta go to listen to them :(

[lReef lKeeper]

Talking Reef (http://feeds.feedburner.com/Talkingreef) ... or you can download itunes and get them there also

[Jerseygirl0398]

awesomenesss!!!! LOL..I found it and im listening to the first one right now. I jsut have a question if any one wants to answer. Now if i added regular tap water and mixed it myself and added water conditioner what would i have to do to my tank would i need to get all of the water out and redo it using an RO or can i take some of it out and use the RO?. Just curious...

[lReef lKeeper]

i would go ahead and take it all out and redo it, BUT you could just do larger water changes than you normally would do (like about 50%) and do a few of those to remove anything that is in there. the first option would probably work out better though. just be sure that the specific gravity and temps match to what you are taking out.

[Reefbaby]

you can go to iTunes, type in "Talkingreef" in the search and start downloading and/or subscribe to the podcast!:D

[Jerseygirl0398]

Man that would suck bad if i took it all out but i think i might go ahead and do that. Only because im livingin an apartment that is in a basement and its kind ahrd to lug jugs of water up and down the stairs LOL. Plus its like -40 degrees outside. But i think thats what im going to do. just remind me guys next time DONT LET THE BOYFRIEND TOUCH THE TANK LOL. he will ruin it if i let him haha. this process needs to be in my hands and i think if i let him mess with it he will do something wrong LOL i wont even let him test the water cause he dosent know how to do it .

[Jerseygirl0398]

One question now. Well lets jsut strike that LOL im porbably going tohave alot more questions haha. When i remove the water say i remove like 90% of the water but there is still some water int he bottom and then redo the water woudl that work. And if i used filterd water to mix the salt that would be okay ?. nd how do i areate the water

[Jerseygirl0398]

well here are the test resultsw on the water and if you think i should change it i will..

pH: 8.4

Nitrate (NO2): 2.0

Ammonia: 1.0

Nitrate ( NO3): 20

[Phurst]

Sure, it's no problem if some of the water stays. Whatever is in there will be completely gone after a couple of water changes.

Looks like your cycle has started. Good thing you returned those clowns and anemone, they'd be dead now for sure.

[Reefbaby]

Actually, the fact that your nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia are all raised has nothing to do with what water you started you system with. These levels are normal for the "cycling" period. Eventually your bacteria will increase and your ammonia will taper off, the nitrites will reduce, and lastly the nitrates should go down to zero (if you're lucky).

However, if you could measure PHOSPHATES and SILICATES (SiO2) as well, then this would be a better indication of whether or not your tap water was crap and you should start all over.

Of course, you're not testing for chlorine, copper, and other salts or metals, which could be detrimental to your tank.

If it's not a huge expense to start over, it might be a good idea. But make sure you measure phosphate as well in your cycling period.

[Jerseygirl0398]

is there a test system for the copper and the chlorine and other salts or metals?

[Reefbaby]

Yes, Salifert has a copper kit: (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~SF1119.html)

and Spectrapure (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~SearchStr~chlorine%20test%20kit~action ~view~idProduct~SP5553~idCategory~FITKSI~category~ SpectraPure_Chlorine_Test_Kit_With_10_Tablets_Salt water_Aquarium_Supplies_Test_Kits_Specialty_Kits~v endor~.html) has a chlorine kit available.

[Jerseygirl0398]

since ive been contemplating it for like the better part of the day i decided to start draining my tank. Im leaving about 10 % in and im goign to mix new water. hopefully it will work "fingers crossed" im gunna clean the top part of the tank because when i put new sand in it made it kinda funky

[lReef lKeeper]

just make sure that the SG and temp are the same when the water change is done. one of the 2 being out of wack can cause the fish to go into shock.

[Jerseygirl0398]

well i dont have any fish right now jsut live rock and sand

[CarmieJo]

Hi Jerseygirl,

With those numbers I don't think the rock was all that cured. They aren't a problem since there isn't anyone in there to get hurt, it is really just an observations. Since you don't have anything in your tank you should be fine just siphoning the water out and replacing it with new water. But, doing so may stop your cycle dead in its tracks.

So, TR brains, what should she do? Let the tank cycle and then do the massive water change? Do the water change now and risk stopping the cycle? Something in between?

[Jerseygirl0398]

well i did it i cant go back now but i think itll be okay i have paitence i can wait. i jsut want to make sure everything is going to be okay. that is the biggest thing to worry about, the overall health of my tank

[lReef lKeeper]

well i did it i cant go back now but i think itll be okay i have paitence i can wait. i jsut want to make sure everything is going to be okay. that is the biggest thing to worry about, the overall health of my tank

with that attitude ... you will have a long and successful hobby !! to bad more people dont start out that way.

[Jerseygirl0398]

Thanks! i hope to do this for a long time, you know when i was a kid i always wanted to be a marine biologist LOL. I can kinda be one with my tank learn about the fish and how to take care of them. That is why i love fish so much. they are so awesome,

[lReef lKeeper]

if you ask me there is not a more rewarding hobby. i just have to commend you on doing what is best for the animals in the future and not just going out and buying a freshwater setup and adding salt, and throwing everything in the tank that day like a lot of people do. i am giving your research first method 2 BIG thumbs up !!

[Jerseygirl0398]

Woohooo Go me go me haha. No but really, i want this to suceeed and i want the rewards that come with it, i want to be able to look at my tanks and say woah i did that, and have other people come over and be like woah thats awesome. and then to move up get a bigger tank and do it again but bigger and better. they are so beautiful and ive seen some of the pictures of the tanks on here and mY GOSH they are spectacular, i only wish to make what you all have made, a beautiful little reef in your homes and hoes for some cool animals that you really dont get to see otherwise