Most SPS keepers have Alk, Calcium, Magnesium, water changes, skimmer, refugiums, Lighting, & flow where they need to be, however, we need more info on lack of growth, recession, & achieving & maintaining colors. I'm not talking about red bugs, RTN, bleaching, etc. It's the slow recession that we second-guess all those above things. If it's tip recession, is it alk swings? Low magnesium? Low flow, light bulbs? From what I understand, most MH bulbs last about a year or more, so why does everyone on every forum ask when was the last time you changes your bulbs (if it's 6 months, what does it matter)? If your alk swings from 3.5 to 3.7 is that really going to cause recession(not likely)? If my flow is 50x versus 75x, does it matter? Most of these answers are no. I believe when people test nitrates with a kit like api, or phosphate with Salifert, & they test 0, they look elsewhere. I know I did, & I almost gave up the hobby because my SPS would not grow, and then slowly die when my phates were over 0.024 & my trates over .5 to 1.0. I spent endless hours, money, & stress trying to figure out why my wild caught $150.00 acro colony was loosing tissue after 3 to 4 months. Can some people keep stonies with nitrates above 10? I have heard that to be true, but mine will die. Why? I have only 3rd or 4th aqua cultured corals(now). They are doing really well now, but twice, I went through the same situation with tips receding & algae forming on the tips. Since I had just upgraded to Tunzes with controlers, I thought it was flow. Then I thouhjt it was microbubbles. Then maybe bugs, lights, Alk, Mag, and then I was right back to what happened before. Nitrates above 0.5 & phpsphates above 0.024! Also, What about getting the best colors. What about feeding fish? Will that supply too much nutrients to the tank? Is 80 degrees too high? One Coral breeder Guru suggests 82-84F, another 72-78F? Where is there more success?

Ralph

oh yeah, if your going to kick off a first posting, why not do it in style whipping out the big guns. Im impressed bud, welcome.
This is a big can of worms that variables play havoc on. Im assuming your suggesting this in podcast form as to where you posted it? or would you like a thread to kick off with this as an opener.?

Hell podcast/forum thread who cares!!!

Those are some hard questions that I don't think you can get the same answer from three people!!! A lot of this hobby/passion IMO is suggestable, meaning what works in my tank may not work in yours. But a good try to these questions would still be nice!!!

oh yeah, if your going to kick off a first posting, why not do it in style whipping out the big guns. Im impressed bud, welcome.
This is a big can of worms that variables play havoc on. Im assuming your suggesting this in podcast form as to where you posted it? or would you like a thread to kick off with this as an opener.?


I'll leave that up to you!
Thanks,
Ralph

I feel this thread will be moved, but where, lol which title or content is most relevant.
I'll pitch in with proper content on this one, as with the others & we'll try to dissect principles, trends, cause & effects ect ect that are global. OH yeah, thread of the year coming up..... *rubs hands together*


Ralph , you threw alot in the air with that posting, lets micro manage the topics of choice. Someone pitch the first discussion topic & we'll start from there.

Maybe general marine discussion hehe. Can we get some input on what kind of system you are running(tank size, lighting, filtration, water movement and livestock list). Maybe we can figure out why your SPS corals are dying out if we know a little more about your system. Weclome to TR btw! :)

web page with pics:

Ralph's main.html (http://webpages.charter.net/mysterybox/)


Fish: Yellow Tang, Royal Gramma, 2 False Pecular Clownfish, 2 Blue-Green Chromis, 2 Dragonface Pipefish, Talbot's Demoiselle

Stony Coral: Rose Millepora, Green Millepora, Blue Tortuosa, 2 Tenuis, blue bottlebrush, Montipora Capricornis, Orange Digitata, Montipora Purple Digitata, Turbinaria Peltata

Other Inverts: Crocea Blue, Crocea Green, Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Emerald Crab, a few Scarlet & Blue Leg Hermit Crabs, Astrea, Cerith, Top Crown, Zebra Turbo, Nerite & Nassarius Snails, Blue Tuxedo Urchin, Black Brittle Star, Various Bristle Worms, Feather Dusters, Euniclid Worms, Pods

Equipment: 55 gallon drilled 48" tank, 30 gallon sump w/ refugium (race caulpera), additional CPR refugium Chaeto & Xenia, ASM G-2 skimmer (mod pump), 2 150 watt AB 13K metal halides w led, 2 phosban reactors 1 phosar 1 carbon, APC 950 backup battery, 3,000 watt generator, Aqua medic doser for 2 little fishes 2-part or B-ionic, Cooling: sump fan, 2 Tunze Turbo Streams 7095 controller 3,360 gallons per hour


Parameters: Alk: 11.2/4.00, Calcium: 450, Ammonia 0, nitrites: 0, Nitrates: 0.470, Phosphates: <.024 (merk), Silica: 1.9, PH: 8.2, Salinity: 35 or 1.026 , Temp: 80F (moving to 82F due to Eric Borneman’s advice and a few other credible sources. Strontium: 9.02, Magnesium: 1300.

Wow! Beautiful tank! Do you have a DSB? Do you have actinic lights or is that what the LEDs are for?

Thanks for all the compliments! I have a 3 inch sandbed, no actinic lighting, hense the Aqualine 10,000 (13K) series with blue led's.

Hi Ralph, :welcome: to TR.

Some of your images are stunning! Are you using RO/DI water?

yes I am. TDS from 0-7 max

Hi Ralph, :welcome: to TR.

Some of your images are stunning! Are you using RO/DI water?

& thanks for the warm welcome!

How often and what % water changes are you doing?

2%-5% every other week

It is difficult to test for every element that a coral needs. What are you dosing? I am a strong believer that water changes are great preventative maintenance. I would bump your water changes up to 10% a week. This will keep your parameters like nitrate and phosphate from creeping up and will replenish trace elements that may be getting deleted.

dosing 2 part 2 little fishes moving to b-ionic. Dose a couple of drops of iron for macro, and I use TMPR salt.

I doubt it is the culprit but my macro, caulerpa, cheato and neomeris all grow fine without dosing iron. I think it may be that you just have a small imbalance in your water chemistry. I would just increase water changes (both frequency and amount) and see if that doesn't resolve the problem.

this is a VERY difficult subject !!

i agree with Carmie every time she says that you should not dose what you do not test for. just a tidbit for you ... you can overdose your tank with iron supplementing. do you know the PAR on those bulbs you are running ?? there are so many variables in this situation that it will be very difficult to get the exact problem.

with that said ... i have a friend that uses the same SALT MIX as you, and he CAN NOT keep SPS alive for more than a few months. i have givin him hundreds of dollars in frags and they have all died within 3 months. hmmm, this kind of has me thinking. i KNOW for a fact that my frags are healthy and they were thriving in my frag tank which is connected to my main system. sounds like i might have a new test on my hands. HTH some.

Bobby might be on to something there with the other account of his buddy having the same problem and using the same salt mix. Here is a study done on WWM by Steven Pro.

New Page 1 (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I3/Salt/salt.htm)

I use Seachem Reefsalt. I was using Instant Ocean but decided to buy a bucket of the Seachem(on sale) since I was putting more corals in my tank. It works awesome! My corals always look great and I only dose the tank with Purple Up every few days.

i can be sure of this diagnosis, and i am NOT blaming Tropic Marin in any way. it was just something that i noticed in the thread. i am planning to to a little test on this with a few of my own frags, but the results will be a few months down the road just so i can be sure of the results.

I've started doing water changes of at least 5% every week. a note on the par of the lights, although I do not know the par, it is a very shallow tank and the lights are 4 inches above the open top. AB hqi bulbs will last at least a year. Thanks everyone!

As Carmie fixes phosphate problem plaguing Ralph's Reef for 2.5 years................just in case you missed the other thread to the same topic...................................



Dear Carmie,

I really appreciate the great.......scratch that.........AWESOME follow-thru that you have given me! That is very rare & special. So, I just want to say, "Thank-you!".

Ralph



corals looking better already! Crazy! Also, Halmeda has just started growing crazy & Calc Algae, too! Thanks so much!
Just a head's up that it was phosphates (again!).
RECAP:
I think you figured out what I was doing to myself! Hikari frozen has very little liquid & stuff in their cubes. I would take 4 frozen cubes of Brine Shrimp (or whatever), put it in a container, drop Selcon on each cube. I would just put it back in the freezer, and I would take out 2 containers at a time and put in frig to thaw. Feeding time, I would just tale out the thawed product, and I would put it in a net to drain. NO RINSING (I wanted the vitamins to stay!) DOH!


I tested phosphates (Merk) about an hour after feeding < 0.024. I also tested my RO water just in case =0.0

dramatic results so far! All corals will recover with the exception of 2. One millie I lost about 2 months ago, and I have a beautiful purple bottle-brush that is 50-50 right now. I think he'll make it. All others are not only starting to heal, but are starting to grow. I think changing the ROWA/PHOSAR reactor every 2 weeks has helped a lot also. However, that was the band-aid, not the fix! Thanks for your diligence! I'd give you a hug if I could!





Corals are recovering already!
Thanks!


let's talk some numbers on the solution (not the band-aids) that FIXED the issue
eric.....3 sites no solution
fenner...no
sprung........no
reefcentral.........no
web sites.................no
lfs...................................no
books.................................no
ARC.........................................no
randy...........................................no
boomer...........................................n o
marine depot.....................................no
tunze............................................. ...........no
ripasso........................................... ............no
prozac............................................ .................no
CARMIE!........................................... ..................YES!

Thanks! But, now I see that the REAL problem was dosing your thank with prozac!

Sorry Carmie, but I think you are finally wrong, I figured out it was actually Ripasso Valpolicella!

LOL! No terrestrial food or drink for marine fishies!

Hi Carmie. Would you happen to know what thread Mysterybox was referring to regarding your advise to him in this thread? Thanks!!! Pam



As Carmie fixes phosphate problem plaguing Ralph's Reef for 2.5 years................just in case you missed the other thread to the same topic...................................

Dear Carmie,

I really appreciate the great.......scratch that.........AWESOME follow-thru that you have given me! That is very rare & special. So, I just want to say, "Thank-you!".

Ralph

corals looking better already! Crazy! Also, Halmeda has just started growing crazy & Calc Algae, too! Thanks so much!
Just a head's up that it was phosphates (again!).
RECAP:
I think you figured out what I was doing to myself! Hikari frozen has very little liquid & stuff in their cubes. I would take 4 frozen cubes of Brine Shrimp (or whatever), put it in a container, drop Selcon on each cube. I would just put it back in the freezer, and I would take out 2 containers at a time and put in frig to thaw. Feeding time, I would just tale out the thawed product, and I would put it in a net to drain. NO RINSING (I wanted the vitamins to stay!) DOH!


I tested phosphates (Merk) about an hour after feeding < 0.024. I also tested my RO water just in case =0.0

dramatic results so far! All corals will recover with the exception of 2. One millie I lost about 2 months ago, and I have a beautiful purple bottle-brush that is 50-50 right now. I think he'll make it. All others are not only starting to heal, but are starting to grow. I think changing the ROWA/PHOSAR reactor every 2 weeks has helped a lot also. However, that was the band-aid, not the fix! Thanks for your diligence! I'd give you a hug if I could!

Corals are recovering already!
Thanks!


let's talk some numbers on the solution (not the band-aids) that FIXED the issue
eric.....3 sites no solution
fenner...no
sprung........no
reefcentral.........no
web sites.................no
lfs...................................no
books.................................no
ARC.........................................no
randy...........................................no
boomer...........................................n o
marine depot.....................................no
tunze............................................. ...........no
ripasso........................................... ............no
prozac............................................ .................no
CARMIE!........................................... ..................YES!