Jasonanatal's Rimless Aquarium Journey.

[Jasonanatal]

Hello everyone, I have been recently pondering with the idea of setting up a Rimless Reef Ready Aquarium with Starphire Glass. I have been doing some Internet searches and the only company that I can locate that sells Rimless Reef Ready Aquariums with Starphire Glass is Glass Cages (Glasscages.com - Home (http://www.glasscages.com)). I'm curious to know what are everyone's thoughts on these types of Aquariums and if there are other vendors that manufacture them within the United States. I'm personally interested in a setup that is about 50 gallons of water (not including the sump or refugium) and a square setup as oppossed to the traditional wide and tall Aquariums that are currently dominating the market.

[V]

i cant help with the suppliers, cause where i live on mars they dont have glass for obvious reasons, But i'll ask the question on the rimless idea?

[Jasonanatal]

i cant help with the suppliers, cause where i live on mars they dont have glass for obvious reasons, But i'll ask the question on the rimless idea?

Veriann, Thank you buddy it is much appreciated. :agree:

[Danamck]

Use google (or whatever you prefer) and search on "trimless aquariums". I did and found this link:

Blue Series Aquariums and Packages (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/blueseries.htm)

I'm sure there were more. Check it out.

IMO, in theory the tanks look very cool. I have seen them in person and they really stand out. My problem with them is that the ones I've seen don't make it easy to hide your plumbing. Many don't even have overflows. What's the point in having a beautiful tank if the plumbing is going to be obvious? IMO.

[rroselavy]

Hello everyone, I have been recently pondering with the idea of setting up a Rimless Reef Ready Aquarium with Starphire Glass. I have been doing some Internet searches and the only company that I can locate that sells Rimless Reef Ready Aquariums with Starphire Glass is Glass Cages (Glasscages.com - Home (http://www.glasscages.com)). I'm curious to know what are everyone's thoughts on these types of Aquariums and if there are other vendors that manufacture them within the United States. I'm personally interested in a setup that is about 50 gallons of water (not including the sump or refugium) and a square setup as oppossed to the traditional wide and tall Aquariums that are currently dominating the market.

Jason-

"Rimless" tanks are a bit of a misnomer. I once said to my brother "I'm considering getting a rimless tank." He scratched his head, and after some thought replied - "I'm trying to visualize a tank without a rim..." At that moment, I realized that I meant "frameless" instead of "rimless".

On nano-reef.com, DIY frameless tanks seem to be the cutting edge, no pun intended. Further research revealed that people interested in the very Zen-like "Planted" tanks[/url] preferred the clean lines of frameless tanks. Most frameless tank owners prefer the clearer "Starphire" (low-iron) glass since the frameless design typically requires thicker glass.

Manufacturers of frameless tanks that are available in the US include (but not limited to) ADA, Lee-Mar, and Elos.

ADA (http://www.adgshop.com/Cube_Garden_90_P_OVERFLOW_p/102-8582.htm) specializes in Planted Tanks, so they have limited models with built-in overflows. Some models are available in "high clarity", and the prices are reasonable for very good construction. One criticism is that their glass is a bit thin.

I have only heard great things about Lee-Mar's premium tanks, but they are only available as custom order from LFS's. They may have models that are standard, but most LFS do not know enough to guide you, and Lee-Mar's website (http://leemarpet.com/) is useless. Many Lee-Mar tanks I have seen have very clean Euro-bracing, but I assume you can get them to do a truly frameless tank. I am not sure if they are widely available outside of California, but they are sweet. Not cheap, however. Lee-Mar also makes nice stands (http://www.aquariumpw.com/brands/33.asp).

ELOS (http://www.elosusa.com/) is an Italian premium maker of frameless tanks. They specialize in turnkey systems including tank, overflow, sump, stand, skimmer, ATO, and plumbing. Very expensive, but very nice. Many of their models have been offered in "Crystal" (low-iron) for little to no extra cost. They also do custom tanks and stands, but at a extra-premium. ELOS has a presence on RC (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=399), and their rep (Jesse) is very diligent and knowledgeable.

Some Nano manufacturers, such as older glass Finnex (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=920321&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) models, Cadlights (http://www.cadlights.com/index.php?cPath=2) (bowfront) and now Current USA (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=131359) have made or are now making frameless models.

Some nano enthusiasts have decided to build their own, and several have purchased glass from Nano-Paul on NR (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107789&hl=nanopaul&st=0) with great success. I have not seen any enthusiast create silicone seams as well as ELOS or Lee-Mar yet. :)

Ordering frameless tanks from Glasscages is an option. I have heard not so great things (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126515&hl=glasscages) about their Acrylic work and customer service.

[rroselavy]

Blue Series Aquariums and Packages (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/blueseries.htm)


Ooops. Good catch! I forgot to mention them. Their custom page (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/customtanks.htm) has some pictures of their fabrication shop and a couple of tank pics.

Aquariumobsessed "Blue Series" tank packages are very expensive, but it is obvious that the components are all hand-picked premium items. The only thing I am not a fan of are the stock package DT dimensions. I am not a huge fan of the cube...I'd rather have a bit more length than height.

[rroselavy]

Use google (or whatever you prefer) and search on "trimless aquariums".

LOL. I have heard them refered to as Rimless, Frameless and Trimless. I think the proper terminology should be "braceless", since it has neither a frame-brace nor a euro-brace.

-S

[rroselavy]

Ordering frameless tanks from Glasscages is an option. I have heard not so great things (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126515&hl=glasscages) about their Acrylic work and customer service.

One follow up before I shut up... :)

One post I found on reefs.org (http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=645017#645017) is consistent with reports I have heard from several other glasscages.com customers. Their glass work is decent and inexpensive, acrylic work a bit sloppy, and their customer service a bit tempermental. Perhaps this is the price you pay for their aggressive pricing? I have never dealt with them myself, but I would not deal with any company with a short fuse when it comes to dealing with customer problems. I would rather pay a little extra for the support that may be required after the sale.

YMMV

[Russel P]

4 in a row!!! That's gotta be a record!

[Danamck]

roselavy -

I agree that "braceless" is the proper term.

And yes - ELOS was the other brand I was trying to think of. I have seen these tanks and they are stunning. Everything about them is first class, including the price. Yikes!

[V]

sweet posting rose:up:

[CarmieJo]

I was quite impressed with the Elos display at MACNA. The Zero Edge acrylic tanks were neat too. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/CarmieJo/DSC_4376.jpg

[Russel P]

Did you guys see the tank that had water flowing over the sides at MACNA?

[rroselavy]

Did you guys see the tank that had water flowing over the sides at MACNA?

If that wasn't Zeroedge, they should really check their ATO... :tongue2:

[V]

what gives the bouble reflection in that shot carmie>?

[CarmieJo]

That is the ZeroEdge! The top lip is turned in and set at an angle, the water flows over the edge and down the outside. Seems to me you would just have to scrape coralline off of the inside, top edge and outside but they look really cool. I took the shot looking over the top of the tank and the upside down is the reflection off of that top lip. I thought it was a pretty neat picture.

[rroselavy]

That is the ZeroEdge! The top lip is turned in and set at an angle, the water flows over the edge and down the outside. Seems to me you would just have to scrape coralline off of the inside, top edge and outside but they look really cool. I took the shot looking over the top of the tank and the upside down is the reflection off of that top lip. I thought it was a pretty neat picture.

That is a neat picture. Are those two Vortech pumps mounted on a submerged tower? If so, the tower must be dry inside for the pump motors. The inside of the tower must be accessed from below the tank. Pretty neat...

I assume that ZeroEdge owners are best off wiping their tanks (inside and out) on a regular basis with a floss pad (or equivalent)...as a preventative measure...

[Danamck]

That is a neat picture. Are those two Vortech pumps mounted on a submerged tower? If so, the tower must be dry inside for the pump motors. The inside of the tower must be accessed from below the tank. Pretty neat...

I assume that ZeroEdge owners are best off wiping their tanks (inside and out) on a regular basis with a floss pad (or equivalent)...as a preventative measure...

Yes. A LFS had one set up. It was stunning, but they hated it. They said it was a pin to install (it has to be PERFECTLY level, otherwise it's not going to function properly. And it's a pain to keep clean, basically your cleaning it a min of once a day. And they were constantly putting snails back into the tank that wandered over the edge and into the drain section.

And yes, the center tower was dry and accessable fromunder the tank.

They still are stunning tanks, though.

[Jasonanatal]

i cant help with the suppliers, cause where i live on mars they dont have glass for obvious reasons, But i'll ask the question on the rimless idea?

Veriann, thank you for the assistance. I think that I'm going to go with Glass Cages at Glasscages.com - Home (http://www.glasscages.com). They offer some very competitive pricing and shipping cannot be beat since they offer pickup of your aquarium at their booths at local conventions.

[Jasonanatal]

Use google (or whatever you prefer) and search on "trimless aquariums". I did and found this link:

Blue Series Aquariums and Packages (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/blueseries.htm)

I'm sure there were more. Check it out.

IMO, in theory the tanks look very cool. I have seen them in person and they really stand out. My problem with them is that the ones I've seen don't make it easy to hide your plumbing. Many don't even have overflows. What's the point in having a beautiful tank if the plumbing is going to be obvious? IMO.

Danamck, beautiful packages but extremely expensive and just a little bit out of my price range. The company Glass Cages Glasscages.com - Home (http://www.glasscages.com) actually allow you to customize the Rimless Aquarium to include Overflows, Starphire Glass and even Black Silicone Edges. I'm actually choosing them to go with my new setup.

[rroselavy]

I'm personally interested in a setup that is about 50 gallons of water (not including the sump or refugium) and a square setup as oppossed to the traditional wide and tall Aquariums that are currently dominating the market.

LOL. I just got a 55g, and I've been thinking the opposite after keeping a 24g nano for 1.5 years. I thought "Most nanos are these (small) cubes that are hard to get enough LR in without restricting flow. I think I want some thing longer than it is wide."

With that said, a 50g cube could be 22.5" in width, length and height. Keeping the LR 3-4" away from each side leaves you with a 19"x19" foot print to get 50-75# of LR into. This seems reasonable. My 55g has about the same area (24"x16") to work within.

-S

[Jasonanatal]

LOL. I just got a 55g, and I've been thinking the opposite after keeping a 24g nano for 1.5 years. I thought "Most nanos are these (small) cubes that are hard to get enough LR in without restricting flow. I think I want some thing longer than it is wide."

With that said, a 50g cube could be 22.5" in width, length and height. Keeping the LR 3-4" away from each side leaves you with a 19"x19" foot print to get 50-75# of LR into. This seems reasonable. My 55g has about the same area (24"x16") to work within.

-S

Rroselavy, thank you for all the information. I would love to go with the Elos brand but I cannot locate any prices for them.

[rroselavy]

Rroselavy, thank you for all the information. I would love to go with the Elos brand but I cannot locate any prices for them.


Jason-

This thread in the sponsor section of Reef Central (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1180463) gives you recent prices on the various ELOS stock systems. Recently, ELOS USA has been selling their low-iron "Crystal" glass for little to no extra. These systems are expensive, but they include the DT (with overflow plumbing), 4-stage Sump, return pump, hefty Protein Skimmer, ATO, and a basic (but very sturdy) stand. You just add lighting and supplemental flow. I think a good chunk of their cost is in the high level of craftsmanship and also the shipping costs, as the systems come from Italy.

Jesse Sirra is the USA rep. Feel free to PM him on RC with any questions or quote requests. They do custom work also, but you could be waiting a few months for a custom system to arrive.

Here's a picture of my 55g (System 70) (I am in the process of actually putting water into it, please ignore the dangling vortech pump and lights not in their final position):

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/aquascape3Q.jpg

[Jasonanatal]

Jason-

This thread in the sponsor section of Reef Central (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1180463) gives you recent prices on the various ELOS stock systems. Recently, ELOS USA has been selling their low-iron "Crystal" glass for little to no extra. These systems are expensive, but they include the DT (with overflow plumbing), 4-stage Sump, return pump, hefty Protein Skimmer, ATO, and a basic (but very sturdy) stand. You just add lighting and supplemental flow. I think a good chunk of their cost is in the high level of craftsmanship and also the shipping costs, as the systems come from Italy.

Jesse Sirra is the USA rep. Feel free to PM him on RC with any questions or quote requests. They do custom work also, but you could be waiting a few months for a custom system to arrive.

Here's a picture of my 55g (System 70) (I am in the process of actually putting water into it, please ignore the dangling vortech pump and lights not in their final position):

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/aquascape3Q.jpg

Rroselavy, beautiful aquarium. Would it be at all posible to request some photographs of your aquariums adges and bottom. I'm thinking about ordering supplies myself and building mine.

[rroselavy]

Rroselavy, beautiful aquarium. Would it be at all posible to request some photographs of your aquariums adges and bottom. I'm thinking about ordering supplies myself and building mine.

Sure. The System 70 is about 29.5"L x 22.5"W x 19.7"T. It is constructed of ~3/8" low-iron glass, with a single overflow. One unique aspect of ELOS tanks is that they have DRY overflow towers. The bottom of the overflow tower is simply an opening to the stand/sump area. This is handy for getting electrical cords down to the stand without having them leave your tank. The tower is constructed with 2 pieces of the same 3/8" glass, drilled for the overflow and return bulkhead. The tower is sheathed in textured PVC(?), and has a cover.

The water simply flows through a removable grate into the overflow fixture. The fixture (the big grey box with the corrugated flex) has a hole to help prevent gurgling. I do not know if this compromises the surface skimming performance by not having a wider overflow opening, but I have heard that the ELOS tanks are quiet and surface skim like champs. I will report back over the next few days to confirm this.

At the bottom of the tank, ELOS has black acrylic bracing to reinforce the overflow and tank seams. This used to be an option, but now ELOS seems to sell this on all their tanks. One cannot say that these tanks are truly braceless! :) Does this make an ELOS tank a bit unattractive to BB enthusiasts? I'm not sure. Someone could cut more black acrylic to hide the bracing...

The most important thing I would stress about the ELOS tanks is the quality of the seams. There is 1/16" space between the edge of one panel of glass and the face of the next where the most of the black silicone resides. There is only a very slight and very clean bead running down the inside corner of the panels, and just enough silicone on the outside of the seam to fill the beveled edge of the glass. I am not sure how ELOS fabricates this, or what adhesive(siicone) is used, but I cannot imagine building a braceless tank any other way. Many DIY tank builders assemble their tanks by taping panels together and applying silicon to ONLY the inside corners. I think that is a big mistake for braceless tanks.

I apologize for my questionable picture taking and lack of prep. I hurried to take these pictures, and did not even clean up the manufacturing/warehouse dust/debris before shooting.

HTH,

-Scott




http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/overflow.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/overflowDetail.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/overflowPlumbing.jpg

[rroselavy]

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/bracing.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/cornerDetail.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/cornerDetail3.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/.public/system70construction/bottomCorner.jpg

[rroselavy]

One last note: The width (front to back: 22.5") of the SYSTEM 70 is really great for my purposes. It allows me to have ample space all around my LR for flow, which was one of the things I really wanted in a new tank after having a rather cramped nano.

I started filling the tank, and will have all the equipment up in the next day or so. I'll post more pics...

[CarmieJo]

Nice. Being able to run cords through the overflow is a cool plus.