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View Full Version : Help Me! How Do I Get Water To My Sump?



keyozoxmfc
10-05-2007, 03:11 AM
So apparently my other thread died, probably due to the title, so I figured I'd start one just for my problem. So if you know my situation, please skip this entire next paragraph.

So my situation is that I have a Seaclear System II tank. It has a built in wet/dry filter.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/Copy2ofsystem2-back-1.jpg
The back Looks just like that, except I have some cheato instead of the Bio balls. A while ago I bought this sump/fuge set up
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0587.jpg
My original plan was to put it higher on a shelf and pump water up to it and have gravity bring it back down. But now my parents would prefer me to have the sump below my tank.

So my question is:: is there any way to move water from my tank DOWN to the sump, without drilling. At the moment, I can't put an overflow on the back, unless there it one that can fit over the side over a 5 inch lip.

Thanks a bunch! Sorry I am such a pest, but that sump has been in my room for half a year already and I want to get it running!

Anything that is unclear, please let me know.

-Mark

V
10-05-2007, 03:20 AM
gravity works, just as long as you have redundancy built it big time.


custom overflow dude. without drilling thats your biggest dance partner.
You can tap off a pump drawing from the display with another in the sump pumping it back, but i wouldn't go that route unless your clearly commited, to much reliance on pressure or float systems, not to mention the pumps themselves need to be able to handle cold stops & starts if it fluctuates.

lReef lKeeper
10-05-2007, 06:01 PM
AND if you use one pump to feed the sump and one to get the water back to the tank ... if one stops running and the other does not ... FLOOD !! i would say to having a custom overflow made to fit over the eurobrace is your best bet too.

keyozoxmfc
10-05-2007, 06:56 PM
im guessing that would require some acrylic work wouldnt it..=( anywhere that might fabricate it for me?

lReef lKeeper
10-05-2007, 06:59 PM
try to see if Manny (thesaint14 here) would be interested in trying to make one for you. he is very good with acrylic.

keyozoxmfc
10-05-2007, 07:00 PM
very cool. i'll see if he pops in here

lReef lKeeper
10-05-2007, 07:01 PM
he is usually on at night, around 9 or 10 pm

rroselavy
10-05-2007, 07:33 PM
B]So my question is:: is there any way to move water from my tank DOWN to the sump, without drilling.[/B] At the moment, I can't put an overflow on the back, unless there it one that can fit over the side over a 5 inch lip.

Here's something radical: Why not pump water UP to your sump/refugium and let the water overflow back to your DT?

Sorry - I just noticed you mentioned that your parents would not like that...

-S

rroselavy
10-05-2007, 07:48 PM
:huh: Wait a second. Your parents don't want the sump above the tank and don't want you to drill. If they knew anything about the fallibility of siphon overflows, they wouldn't want you to have one of those either... It seems as if they really don't want you to have a sumpfugium!!! :p

keyozoxmfc
10-05-2007, 08:02 PM
well they will let me do the above tank one,

BUT theyd pay for whats needed to have it below the tank

V
10-06-2007, 11:21 AM
then drain, QT & plumb propperly...lol

Ether way, a sump by its very nature is only to provide extra water volume, a place to hide gear & to increase the oxygen content without the "so called" risks of having it distributed in the DT. A fuge alone can be achieved above on the side or under with ease, just takes your melon to sort the plumbing & failsafes

keyozoxmfc
10-07-2007, 05:37 PM
maybe i can convince them to let me drain and drill! haha


but i do actually have an overflow box, is there some way i could modify it to fit over the euro brace?

CarmieJo
10-07-2007, 06:47 PM
Mark,

I think some pix and the dimensions of everything would probably help the people who are good with things like this. BTW, I am not one of those people.:)

keyozoxmfc
10-07-2007, 07:06 PM
heres what im working with
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1386.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1387.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1389.jpg

thesaent14
10-07-2007, 11:16 PM
very cool. i'll see if he pops in here

hey i will need some mesuments to be able to help you out more and what type of bofb you looking for

thesaent14
10-07-2007, 11:20 PM
lol i am late i see

V
10-07-2007, 11:22 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1389.jpg

To modify this would be easy, a few extra pieces of acylic & a wider U tube curve & your laughing bud.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1387.jpg
whats all that, soap scum? :huh: lol

keyozoxmfc
10-08-2007, 12:13 AM
Lol Its My Beautiful Coraline!

keyozoxmfc
10-08-2007, 12:17 AM
hey i will need some mesuments to be able to help you out more and what type of bofb you looking for

what is bofb? , but the euro brace is 4 inches thick.

it would actually be cool if i could get the overflow over the back instead of the side. That is about 6.5 inches thick.

keyozoxmfc
10-08-2007, 12:18 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1389.jpg

To modify this would be easy, a few extra pieces of acylic & a wider U tube curve & your laughing bud.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1387.jpg
whats all that, soap scum? :huh: lol



where can i get a U tube that fits over a euro brace 4-6.5 inches thick?

thesaent14
10-08-2007, 12:51 AM
Back,Over,Flow,Box (bofb)

it will be hard for you to get o u tube like that your best bet is to drill i 1 1/2 hole on the brace and glue the box inside at the hi you want it same with the otherone glue it to the back

keyozoxmfc
10-08-2007, 02:35 AM
So theres no way to get some sort of bigger U tube? or even make it? because then if thats the case, i cant put it on the back of my tank

V
10-08-2007, 02:54 AM
abit of heat treatment on some offcut tubing could do the trick i would imagin thesaent?
Just got to watch for crimps so roll it slowly.

although drilling the brace is a good idea, Its still a structual flex brace :huh:lol! also its best left to an empty tank unless your confident you can capture all the shavings.

keyozoxmfc
10-08-2007, 03:37 AM
yeah... would drilling a hole hurt the tank? lol my tank wouldnt fall apart would it..

but id much more prefer to not have to drill at all

clownfish4me
10-08-2007, 05:55 AM
it will be hard for you to get o u tube like that your best bet is to drill i 1 1/2 hole on the brace and glue the box inside at the hi you want it same with the other one glue it to the back
this is what i was going to suggest also. a hole that small in a 6" wide brace would not affect its stability. if that don't work for you try building the u - tube out of PVC fittings? it would be easy with a few short pieces of pipe and a couple 90's good luck....

keyozoxmfc
10-13-2007, 05:57 PM
i was thinking about building a U tube out of PVC, but will that work?

Isnt it also best to be able to see through the U tube?

How about creating a "boxy" U tube out of acrylic?

clownfish4me
10-14-2007, 01:41 AM
i don't know why you would have to see inside the u-tube. i have not heard of anything to give reason to? but i think your idea of a box acrylic tube is a good idea too.

thesaent14
10-14-2007, 09:51 AM
i was thinking about building a U tube out of PVC, but will that work?

Isnt it also best to be able to see through the U tube?

How about creating a "boxy" U tube out of acrylic?

the reason why you need to see in the u tube is because some times there is a air bubble if is not lable


btw i know you don't want to drill the tank but honestly is you only choice because the brace is to big it will not make the brace more weak its only a hole

rroselavy
10-14-2007, 01:18 PM
the reason why you need to see in the u tube is because some times there is a air bubble if is not lable

Speaking of bubbles, er...I mean *cough* impending siphon breaks... Is it possible to safeguard a siphon overlfow by having a water level sensor (like an ATO sensor) in your DT to turn off the return if it exceeds a certain height over your overflow teeth?

I'm pretty paranoid about these siphon overflows. I have talked to people who say they would never use siphons for fear of breaks and others that seem quite nonchalant about the whole thing.

lReef lKeeper
10-14-2007, 01:27 PM
i would not use an overflow box or any type of siphon overflow without also using an Aqua lifter pump. the pump will suck the air out of the U tube.

keyozoxmfc
10-14-2007, 03:36 PM
is it possible to make a clear u tube out of acrylic?

The problem with drilling is that, if you notice in the pictures above, you can see the stands for my PC lighting fixture. To take those pictures, i had to push the lights all the way back, but when they are pushed forward, they would be in the way of the overflow box.

plus there always that reason that its hard to get a parent to let you drill any sort of hole in a 2000 dollar investment

CarmieJo
10-14-2007, 06:23 PM
plus there always that reason that its hard to get a parent to let you drill any sort of hole in a 2000 dollar investment

I can identify with that!

thesaent14
10-14-2007, 07:51 PM
why don't you take a picture of the hall tank and the equipment and we can put the pusle together because i feel you want us to to magic with things you can do i will love to help you but i can see everything in your tank to get ideas think out the box and you will be able to do what you need

btw if you make a u tube so wide it probably will not work because the trajectory of the water from one point to the other one that need to be on a full 90


lol i just got your solution wait ill show you some pics soon

keyozoxmfc
10-15-2007, 07:22 PM
so its more pictures you need right?

keyozoxmfc
10-24-2007, 02:26 AM
so my ideas now

1still the wider u Tube

2have one end of the U tube inside the built in filter.

the second one is kinda hard to get. i will explain it with pictures later when i have more time

any comments?

keyozoxmfc
10-26-2007, 02:04 AM
so about the drilling into the side, i can not do that because of the light stand for my PC lights.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1436.jpg





so i was thinking about taking EVERYTHING out of the back part of the tank, and not having any sort of pumps pumping from the built in filter and instead make it part of the overflow box.. kinda confusing

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1438.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_1439.jpg


any comments very much appreciated!

keyozoxmfc
10-26-2007, 02:05 AM
and iwas also thinking that the overflow box can be put anywhere, its just over there to the side for now since i cant get a good picture anywhere else.

i was thinking it would act sort of as the part of the overflow box thats supposed to be in the tank

CarmieJo
10-26-2007, 10:07 AM
I am not at all good about these plumbing things. But, why couldn't you just siphon or pump water form the existing wet/dry to the new sump?

keyozoxmfc
10-26-2007, 06:42 PM
what do you mean siphon or pump? down?

thesaent14
10-26-2007, 09:19 PM
for what i see in the picture you have room to add a secund overflow box or add a secund u tube to the box you have now with adding a secund one you have to increace the flow

CarmieJo
10-27-2007, 12:11 AM
Where is the part where the bioballs are supposed to be?

keyozoxmfc
10-27-2007, 01:02 AM
Carmie - the bio balls are supposed to be in the area where my skimmer is hanging on.

manny- i think i deceived you. lol. the overflow box is not currently running. i was asking if doing what i showed in the picture would work?

And theres still my question if the idea of using a much wider U tube to just go over the entire back filter, if that would work.

CarmieJo
10-27-2007, 01:29 AM
Oh, now I see. Cancel my suggestion. :)

keyozoxmfc
10-27-2007, 01:33 AM
well if i do somehow get my a sump up, my skimmer and everything else in the back compartment would be put into the sump?

CarmieJo
10-27-2007, 01:40 AM
Yeah, that is where I have all that stuff. Where does that flexible tube on the bottom of the back section go to?

keyozoxmfc
10-27-2007, 01:45 AM
ohh no i think i confused everyone!

that overflow is not running. i was just showing the area id like to have it in. that tube isnt connected to anything its just hanging

MaxSailfin
04-22-2008, 12:53 PM
keyozoxmfc,

Did you ever get your u-tube overflow going for your SeaClear II? I was in the same predicament and what I did was ditch the grooved box intended for the input to the u-tube. There is no way I could get such a box to fit in the tank portion of the SeaClear without making major modifications either to the tank or to the box. In addition, there are some design issues regarding the SeaClear operation that will prevent that grooved box from maintaining siphon the way it does in standard tanks.

Anways, the back portion of my overflow box has a notch, and it just worked out that I could mount the box to the back of the SeaClear right between the built-in sump entry and the skimmer chamber as shown here.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/MaxSailfin/utube/P4220008.jpg

The u-tube fit with no problem. Notice in the photo that the return hose from the sump below leads into the skimmer compartment. This way the returned water is "downstream" of the utube and should result in less churn of the same water. However, since the grooved box that came with the overflow box can't be used, the siphon will always eventually break. In addition because the SeaClear II poses an additional challenge in that the water level in the built-in sump (back chambers) actually ***goes down*** when the tank is operating. When the tank's pump is turned off, the water level in the back area increases. So care must be taken that there is sufficient capacity in the sump below to capture any excess water in case of an unanticipated power outage. This water level differential can be controlled a little by adjusting the grooved plate at the opening where the tank water enters the built-in sump.

I wonder if it is possible to insert a smaller grooved box in the back chamber area so that I don't need to reserve a bunch of extra space in the sump down below to prevent floods in case of power outages. In addition it would be nice not to need to reestablish siphon after every water change. My suspicion is that for this to work, the SeaClear will need to run a bit fuller than usual in order that the tank area and built-in sump water levels are more equalized.

I saw mentioned the option of drilling a hole instead of using an overflow mechanism. I don't think drilling a hole into the built-in sump would work because of how the water level decreases there when the circulation pump is activated. However, there is space to drill a hole and place a bulkhead either at the far left or far right and back of the tank because the built-in sump area of the SeaClear II occupies the back center and leaves about 6" clearance worth of back wall on either side of the tank.

Finally, here's another picture of the set up from the left side of the tank.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/MaxSailfin/utube/P4220007.jpg

keyozoxmfc
04-23-2008, 12:00 AM
wow i totally forgot about this ...thanks for the info!..

i was planning to do the same thing as you but put the hang on overflow on the farr side ...opoosite of where you have it. Wouldnt the back of the tank work as a really big overflow box though? with my tank, the built in plumbing isnt used.. the opening to attach the return pump is plugged up and so wouldnt it act as a really big grooved box?

and why doesnt your siphon hold? i dont see why not

and also ..the grooved box included with my hang on over flow box fits in the back compartment. would you recommend i just use that ?

MaxSailfin
04-23-2008, 12:49 AM
Wouldnt the back of the tank work as a really big overflow box though?

Yes, but the problem is that such a big grooved box represents a lot of water volume that would have to transfer through the u-tube and into the sump until everything equalizes. With a small grooved box, once water gets too low to enter through the grooves, then the u-tube will equalize the water levels on both of its ends without breaking siphon.

If your aren't using the internal SeaClear plumbing, then possibly the SeaClear built-in sump maintains a closer water level to the tank area, and there won't be the water level increase problem that I see when my SeaClear powers off. In that case, it would probably be okay to fit a small grooved box in one of the back compartments to maintain siphon. The only issue would be to make sure that the return from the lower sump feeds to the tank area to guarantee a large turnover of the tank water..

CarmieJo
04-24-2008, 12:18 AM
Hello MaxSailfin, :welcome: to TR.