Well, I have finally finished cycling my new 156g SPS Dominant Reef Aquarium. I planned for a couple months while waiting for delivery of the tank and time waiting on construction of a custom stand and canopy made of pine. The cost of the aquarium itself was expensive, but the canopy and stand were quite reasonable. Matt of Sho Tank Aquariums in Mundelein, IL set me up nice. He made the stand 36" to the glass from the bottom of the stand and the canopy is 20" from the top to the water. I really like this route because I was able to get the stand and canopy just the way I wanted it. No, I did not build it myself. It was $700 which I feel is pretty cheap considering the quality and the equal cost to Oceanic's offering. I feel best trusting those that know how to brace a couple thousand pounds with that part of set up. I did stain the stand and canopy myself in honey pine only to help Matt out because he is certainly a busy guy. I also needed it for a specific weekend to get some expert plumbing help. Something I also trust to those that know how to make things work the way you want it. I am really excited again to get this new project started. I hope you enjoy the thread:thumbs:

A little over a year ago I took down my 65g reef tank that had been going for eleven plus years. I downgraded to a 30g cube to house the first two marine fish I had ever kept, my two captive bred clownfish. Due to space reasons - girlfriend was not as into the tanks at the time - I concentrated on this 30g cube that has been going a bit more than a year. It is now a thriving reef tank of its own and my clowns could not be happier. I caught the bug again and started looking around for my dream tank.

I stopped into one of my favorite LFS's just north of my work - Sho Tank Aquariums. Matt had an unfinished 120g All-glass tank set into a beautiful custom stand and canopy that were actually connected. It looked really cool.

I took a picture and brought it home to my girlfriend and she wanted it just as much as me.:eek: I was totally shocked and we decided to go up to see Matt the next day. I wanted a Starphire front so we asked on the price of a 120g Oceanic and found it was the same price as the 156g Oceanic. So that's what we decided on - our new 156g Aquarium::p

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/TankGarage.jpg

It took about 3 weeks to get the tank in and then we waited another 4 weeks for the stand and canopy. In the process, I started plannig out the tank and how everything would work from circulation to lighting and of course, the choice of inhabitants.

When researching lighting I came across a thread where a fellow reefkeeper displayed his tank under 5 metal halide bulbs - 500g 10ft aqaurium.

That thread soon turned into this:

Tank of the Month - September 2007 - Reefkeeping.com (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/totm/index.php)

I loved this set up because it was an example of a reef tank that functioned with one lighting scheme. I PM'd Mike and he asked me to call immediately. He convinced me that after viewing the Coralvue 12K Reeflux bulbs I would have found my perfect 50/50 Metal Halide bulb. He asked me if I wanted to come over and of course, how could I pass up the opportunity. I was in awe of his tank from the first second I saw it. I was immediatelty drawn to the natural look of single MH bulbs creating a view that reminded me of "swimming in the ocean on a sunny day."

I took about 250 photographs of Mike's tank that day and from there I visited several more times to take additional pictures for the article as well as just rapping about reefkeeping. It is amazing who you may meet in this hobby. All by chance in looking for the perfect bulb for me.

The reason I mention this series of events involves how my mind changed about planning for the new 156g reef. I had an extra Icecap 660 ballast so I was convinced I was going with VHO's and 10K bulbs. Not anymore.

The design for the stand increased from 30" to 36" to allow for a larger skimmer and the canopy was raised from 12" to 20" to compensate for 400w bulbs instead of 250w bulbs.

The last couple months has been a hell of a ride. Most importantly I have a new reefkeeping buddy that I can rely on for sound advice. I have always felt that having one or two reef geeks in close contact is best to reference the flood of information we are exposed to every day.

Finally the stand and canopy were close to finished. Matt was particularly busy and did not have the time to sand and stain everything prior to a key weekend that Mike was available to help me plumb the tank. It all worked out after two whole days of sanding and staining the stand so we can get this little baby plumbed.

Here is the end result of the stain job. I used the Minwax Polyshades - Honey Pine(2 coats) along with 3 coats of polyurethane.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/FrontStandStaind.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/SideStandStaind.jpg

And here is the stand and tank in its final resting place. It was the heaviest tank I had lifted to date. It slides into the stand instead of on top. I really liked this design. Makes for a cleaner look. While lifting it to slide in the stand, Mike had jerked a bit and the tank was on its way down:unsure: Luckily my knees broke the fall and all was well except my knees of course.:showoff:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/TankPlacement.jpg

Well, here we are finally ready to plumb on Sunday - August 19, 2007

Just a little tangent. I will be posting several posts that will not be direct answers to people's questions, but to furthur explain the project in general. I will answer any questions seperate from these types of posts. Enjoy everyone - the journey begins...:cool:

Wow, that looks like a really great setup! I'm looking forward to following your progress.

So, the day started out with drilling the sump. I have never drilled acrylic - only glass - so Mike to the rescue. He used a hole saw - drilled a pilot hole - and used olive oil to lubricate. Pretty cool.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Drill.jpg

He drilled 4 holes total -

Hole #1 - 2" hole for a 2" bulkhead for the Reeflo Dart pump on the return side. This was the toughest hole to drill apparantly. The bigger you go I guess greatens susceptabiltiy to crack the sump. The drill wanted to jump often. Olive Oil helped and was only used for this big hole. Whew - sump in tact:up: Nice job Mike! I can tell drilling the other holes were secondary as we had one shot to get the 2" bulkhead in as only one sump in the house. It was definitely a relief and the drilling continued. You can see the 2" bulkhead fastened to the sump in this shot:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/SumpDrilling1.jpg
(ESHOPPS - 37 gallon capacity - Reef Sump)
--------------
Hole #2 - 3/4 inch bulkhead - possible chiller in the future on the return side
--------------
Hole #3 - 3/4 inch bulkhead - used for an external pump - I will be plumbing a refugium or a frag tank - have not decided yet - still planning it out. You will notice a bit more than 3ft on the right side of the tank for a 24-26" custom cube or 45 tall cube refugium. I wish I could have done it all it once but money talks and everything has gone towards the main display. I may just end up plumbing the 30g cube in, but I know it would be better off as an ongoing quarantine tank. More to come here...

You can see Hole #3 and hole #2 connected to a ball valve here:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/HoleDrilled.jpg
--------------
Hole #4 was a surprise - the intention was to use the mag 7 as the feed pump for the skimmer "inside" the sump. I figured why not, so the hole was drilled for another 3/4 bulkhead right where the drain lines come in. Problem is the pump after glueing was going to hang off the back of the stand by the length of the pump. I jerry rigged 3 pieces of 2 x4 that set the mag 7 up right where it needs to be.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Mag7rig.jpg

Easy enough. The skimmer called for about 350gph to operate optimally. Using a mag 7 - the flow needed to come down and putting it in the sump would have meant heavily restricting the pump with a ball valve. I still have a ball valve on but have it kept wide open. In the sump a mag 5 would have been best to keep the flow down feeding this particular skimmer. Skimmer running well. More to come later...

So some flexible Spa Flex PVC was line against the back of the stand with horseshoe clamps reducing flow just enough for the skimmer to do its thing. I would say about 4-5 ft head loss - have not measured it yet. The flexible PVC Mike uses is excellent - bendable but sturdy providing a much cleaner set up than I have seen with most rigid PVC setups - more to come here as well...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Mag7plumbedbacktank.jpg

So there you have the four holes. Mike did an excellent job on the holes and made it look too easy. All we had left to do is plumb it...

Wow, that looks like a really great setup! I'm looking forward to following your progress.

Thanks Pearson!

I think you will really enjoy this one - I could have gotten started several weeks ago but decided not to as days go by and not much is happening. After the cycle is complete things get going and there is more to explain. Now I can catch up and start from the beginning as my thoughts are gathered and I can get each step of the project out collectively.;)

And just for everyone to note - If qouting something try to copy/paste it - Some of these posts are going to be pretty long and full of pictures and I really don't want to bog down Rob's server - just looking out for the man.:up:

I originally planned on a Panworld 150 for the return. After realizing the amount of watts this pump produced(1100gph - 180w & I am sure just as many amps as the Dart), I enquired about the possibility of putting a Reeflo Dart(3600gph - 160w & 1.4 amp max.) as the return. There are 1" drains so the increased gph they are able to manage was made possible by expanding one of the drains to 1.5" into the sump. I had the Dart cranked down for the first few weeks and am now able to keep the Dart almost all the way open. This has created a ton more flow than I had expected. I knew I would have powerheads inside the tank so the return pump was meant to be supplementary. Now the returns are a whole circulation system on their own. This is where I trust the experts. The Dart is rated much higher than the Panworld 150, but was made possible on these 1" drains with Mike's experience. So there you have it, a high rated pump on a return. You may ask if there is a refugium down below and there is "one", just not customary to what people typically keep - macroalgae. My goal was to free up space in the aquarium and place about 30lbs of live rock in the sump. I can still manage another ten pounds in there. This is where hooking up a macroalgae or seagrass refugium will come in later in the empty space to the right side of the display.

Here is a side view of the dart. We came in 2" from the bulkhead to get full flow. The union Mike used is much shorter than the average 2" union. This helped get the dart in the stand with some breathing room.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Dartsideview.jpg

Here is a top down view with the two ball valves for future equipment. I really like this approach as you can turn the water off right at the sump. The main reason for going in the sump is to leave room for external plumbing and equipment. It would not have been possible to put in a 2" ball valve for taking off the Dart. Simply, the sump must be drained below the Dart before servicing the pump. An extra step yeah, but no problem as we got this to work.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Dartand3-4bulkheads.jpg

Here is a good view of the return section of the sump. Later a curved 45 degree bend is put in for the Dart aimed down for the intake on the Dart. The Dart comes off at the 1.5" union and shut off by a 1.5" ball valve.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Dartremoval.jpg

Here is the dart partially plumbed. You can see a 1" ball valve after being reduced form 1.5". This Oceanic tank had four 1" holes drilled on the bottom of the overflow boxes which allowed us to come back into the tank at 1" instead of 3/4", as would have been if we used the cheap 3/4" bulkheads given with the overflow kits. The ball valve cranks down the closest return so the flow would balance out with the left side return. You can see the 1" drain increased to 1.5" at the top of the sump on the left hand side. The Mag 7 is right where the drains come in for the skimmer feed. You will also ntoice the open sump perfect for 30-40lbs of live rock. Again this will be an SPS Dominant reef and the fish will have there room to do their thing as well.;)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Dartplumbed.jpg


The stand is about 62" inside the 2x4's so the sump(36" long) and the skimmer(22" needed) left little breathing room. The skimmer is also 30" tall and the floor to the stand was put in afterwards to fit all of this under a five foot tank. The skimmer had to get in to make this work. :up:

Beautiful sump you have going! Flexible PVC is new on me, I'm setting up a big tank too -gotta track down that. Can't wait to see how this progresses!

Initially I was thinking of doing a custom 48" sump/refugium which would also house a skimmer. Wanting enough room for live rock in the sump, I needed everything to be external so that live rock could be placed there. Mike suggested an open sump for live rock and a recirculating skimmer to be plumbed externally.

The Octopus DNW-200 Recirculating Skimmer

Specs:
- 7.8" Diameter
- 29.64" Tall
- Footprint 9" x 21"

I know ratings don't always realistically display the threshold for effective operation. This skimmer was rated to 400 gallons. This system is currently at approximately 170 gallons. I wanted a skimmer that would skim hard to allow for a larger bioload. I always manage to reintroduce trace minerals regularly through weekly water changes, ESV B-Ionic 2 part & Magnesium, and Ecosystems Reef Solution. I have been using this method for the last 12 years and have been pretty successful doing so. I have a skimmer rated for 125 gallons for my 30g cube as well.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Skimmervertical.jpg

This is a fabulous skimmer. Well constructed, tight fittings, and a skimmer cup that comes off without having to lift it up out of a tube. I only have two inches to the bottom of the tank so if it needed to be lifted, I was out of luck.

Here is another shot of the mag 7 feeding the skimmer:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Mag7plumbedtopdown.jpg

This shot shows you the end of the spa flex connected to a ball valve to turn down the skimmer feed if need be. You can also see the ball valve on the closest return to balance the flow.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Skimmerplumbed.jpg

looking great, i am looking forward to following this thread. do you think that the mag7 is going to be strong enough to supply that skimmer with that much head pressure ?? i would estimate that is going to be running about 450 - 500 gph with the head loss.

Thanks Bobby:p

The skimmer asks for 1.5 - 2x tank volume - figure 170-180 gallon system - so 350gph is probably optimal. I am at a bit more than that with the head loss which is why I left the option to turn down the feed if need be. It seemed to me that putting the mag 7 right where the drains come in would be best for effective skimming. If we went with a mag 5, I definitely would not have enough gph with the head loss. Just for reference - their is an additional pump on this recirculating skimmer connected at the base of the skimmer to create the bubbles. The mag 7 is simply just to feed the skimmer water from the sump.:up:

i guess if i would have paid more attention to the pics ... i would have noticed that !! DUH

looking great !!

Beautiful sump you have going! Flexible PVC is new on me, I'm setting up a big tank too -gotta track down that. Can't wait to see how this progresses!

Hey Russel P.,

Thanks for the complement. I just wish it was me that designed it;) It was a pretty tough decision deciding upon whether I would do a sump/refugium or not. I guess knowing I was going to use a Dart for a return helped make the decision. Adding a refugium in the sump would have way too much flow through it to be of any use. Besides, my main reason for the sump is to keep rock out of the tank as well as a place to grow copepods and amphipods. The removal of nitrate will come later when a refugium is set up next to the tank. The bioload will be so low for a while that I am not concerned. My 30g cube has been going a year now and my nitrate tests 0 and without a refugium. I feed twice a day as well. The skimmer is over rated which I feel helps to keep the nitrate so low.

I will see if I can get some info. on the flexible PVC. Mike brought it over to use. He does all of his tanks this way:up: I will go into more depth onthe spa flex in the next section...

That is giong to be a great setup! What are you tank dimensions?

And that tank of the month is awesome. When I saw it I started considering the reflux also

That is giong to be a great setup! What are you tank dimensions?

And that tank of the month is awesome. When I saw it I started considering the reflux also

Thanks David, just waiting on the 12K Reeflux bulbs and ballasts - will be fired up this coming wekend.

Mike's tank is quite amazing. I have not seen that kind of color and growth since the guy that taught me 12 years ago - His name was Jason - knew him for a year - never got his last name - moved to Florida to become a marine biologist - still trying to track him down - I would love to see what he is doing these days.

The tank dimensions are 60.5" long x 25" wide x 24.5" tall - I really contemplated going with a 30" tall tank. My arms are long enough to do any necessary maintenace with ease at 24.5".;)

hey bubble

progress looks good bud, arr the journey once again hey!
looks like its all coming together nicely. id suggest while the skimmer & sump are still being worked on, you get yourself a drip tray under it all. saves hassles later, essecially cause you have wood.

nice job, look forward to your progress. glad your keeping the DT on the lighter side, no-one likes to keep it simple anymore do they!

hey bubble

progress looks good bud, arr the journey once again hey!
looks like its all coming together nicely. id suggest while the skimmer & sump are still being worked on, you get yourself a drip tray under it all. saves hassles later, essecially cause you have wood.

nice job, look forward to your progress. glad your keeping the DT on the lighter side, no-one likes to keep it simple anymore do they!


Sir Veriann,
Argghh! We meet again!:master:

How's it going man - took a little hayetus(don't think that is how you spell it:roll:) from the forums for a while. Back in business my friend.

It has actually come a long a lot farther than you have seen. I have been past the initial cycle and have my herbivores in the tank. I started this thread up a little late on purpose as it just drags out during the first month or so. I wanted to have a lot more to see right off the bat so people can get an idea of the system without having to surf through several pages. If you remember my posts in the past Veriann, I am very thorough;).

Thanks for the tip on the drip tray. Unfortunately like I said everything is installed and it would kind of be a pain to slip one under(not impossible - just a pain) - any recommendations on here to get one? I purposefully coated the flooring with 5 coats of polyurethane so I should be alright. Luckily I have not had any spills so far:p

Enjoy the thread Veriann - I will be caught up soon...

good thinking bubble,hey...always ahead of the times bud. i'll check in often to see your master piece:eek:grow

I have always beleived as Skimmer technology got better and better that "heavy" skimming is a good way to keep water conditions optimal. Currently on my 30g cube I am using a skimmer rated at 125g. Now I am sure that figure is based on a medium load aquarium of 125g. Skimmers are typically rated this way so to estimate - this skimmer can probably handle a heavy load in 75g of water tops. That would mean I am still skimming very hard for the system in place. It is important to mention that I have not run a refugium in the past year on this cube and my nitrates always test out at 0. I have two different nitrate test kits(API and Salifert) to compare. So basically the biological system in this cube can handle a couple feedings a day and still maintain 0 nitrate. Again, I like to skim hard.

The biggest concern most people have with oversizing protein skimmers is the reduction of trace elements throughout the system. Again, I have only known B-Ionic, reef solution and regular water changes(weekly). I know by the regular introduction of trace elements, that heavy skimming does not effect the system. I should add that I run carbon 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Yes again, I realize they strip trace elements, hence the regular supplementary additions to the system. Reason for running carbon(changed regularly) is to allow for water clarity that is so high that light can easily penetrate and reach the corals optimally.

After talking to Mike Leonard(9/07 TOTM winner) for several days, we both realized our philosophies on reefkeeping were quite similar. We both beleive in heavy skimming and heavy feeding(slowly increased over time of course) of the system(read TOTM article with the section on feeding to get the picture). For so many years reefkeepers have been told to lighten the load or your coral will suffer. Hogwash:huh: Corals thrive when we can mimic what our oceans have to offer as much as possible. I am not saying more is better. I am saying that more feeding of the system built up over time is a good way to build a balanced ecosystem with high biodiversity.

So on to the important stuff - what skimmer to choose. I was really considering a becket style skimmer as I thought I was going to need to place the skimmer in sump. I am pleased to say that we were able to get this skimmer:

Octopus DNW-200 Recirculating Protein Skimmer* - AquaCave (http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=985)

outside of the sump so that I can free up some space for live rock. This is what I wanted but thought was not possible under a 5ft tank. We were able to create a very manageable system with plenty of room for maintenance.:agree:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Tankplumbed.jpg

This skimmer is rated for 400 gallons so this skimmer should do well for this 175g soon to be 200 - 225g system.

The skimmer operates with two pumps, Mag 7(see previous posts) and an Octopus 3000 neeedle wheel pump. It has been very efficient so far and was extremely easy to set up. The most plug and play skimmer I have ever used. I spent a week doing a vinegar wash which consisted of running the skimmer offline with a gallon of vinegar and filled up with water. This certainly helped get some of the oils out of the acrylic, but it still took the skimmer 2 weeks to break in after the cycle started. The lid comes off the neck without lifting it which was key to fitting it under the stand. You can tell why we needed 36" under the tank while raising the floor to accomodate this skimmer. All in all I am very pleased with the skimmer. I am sure it will get plenty of use.;)

Skim or die trying:madmad:

looking good bud, removeable panels on the sides, or just front.

you got modular tubing coming up from the overflows?

Jim,
Great looking setup, first time I looked at your journal. I like how clean it is, you have put alot of thought into it. Looks like you may have the same issue I have, just a single duplex outlet. I made up my mind that when i do mine, I am going to make something custom for power. I have way too much reliance on multi-outlet strips!

Awsome, can't wait to see more!

Oops - double posted...

Jim,
Great looking setup, first time I looked at your journal. I like how clean it is, you have put alot of thought into it. Looks like you may have the same issue I have, just a single duplex outlet. I made up my mind that when i do mine, I am going to make something custom for power. I have way too much reliance on multi-outlet strips!

Awsome, can't wait to see more!

Thanks Wildone:p

I had a fellow reekeeper/electrician come out to put in an extra 20 amp circuit. So the outlet is split with a 20 amp and a 15 amp. About 3 amps is used on the 15 amp circuit potentially with other outlets in the house. I will have just enough power for this set up and a refugium or frag tank plumbed into the main display. There is no way i can do 2-400w bulbs if I did not have at least one dedicated circuit. He only charged $180 for 6 hours of work. Pretty cool! I did give him a bunch of frags. I was going to give them to him regardless of the price though. Glad you like the set up. I am almost done with my spiels on planning out this system.;)

And then we will focus on the livestock....

Skim or die trying:madmad:

looking good bud, removeable panels on the sides, or just front.

you got modular tubing coming up from the overflows?

Skim Hard, Reef hard!:showoff:

Thanks V.,

I wanted removable panels on the side but decided since it was so open in the front that it was an unnecessary cost - especially after seeing the estimate:huh:

There is pseudo locline provided by Oceanic for the returns from the dart - regular locline will not work with it - kind of stuck with what they gave unless I want to swap out for original locline.

The amount of pressure coming out of those returns is simply amazing - the Dart is creating a significant amount of flow. :p

upgrade planning spiels never end bubble, you know you have the bug brother, & it will bite again in about 2 years im tipping, they should do a reality show called reefkeeping overhaulin

upgrade planning spiels never end bubble, you know you have the bug brother, & it will bite again in about 2 years im tipping, they should do a reality show called reefkeeping overhaulin


You know what brother, I have had this bug deep inside me after I got my first pair of Jack Dempsy's when I was 5 years old. The bug keeps getting deeper and deeper. I don't think I will ever have a chance to get it out.;)

I think two years is right on the money as I will surely outgrow this tank and look into a 300 - 500g in the future. Need a bigger house though:p

Plumbing the tank went pretty smoothly. Mike used a special flexible PVC that I have to say is absolutely fantastic. It is not your typical flexible that you buy at Home Depot. It bends a great deal more but is sturdy enough not to create and creases in the tubing. The amount of head loss saved is signifcant considering the amount of elbows and 45's that were avoided due to the use of the spaflex. At Menards you can buy these horseshoe clamps that really helped to create a clean set up allowing for maximum workability under the tank. The Spaflex was easily tacked to the stand to get it out of the way. I will never use strictly rigid PVC again - the spaflex made for a much more manageable system.

Here is a link I found to purchase some for future tank builds. It is a bit more expensive than rigid but well worth it. I am sure there are other places to purchase it - do a search and I am sure you will find other options.

Buy flexible pvc pipe at FlexPVC.com PVC pipe, hose, & pvc fittings online @ wholesale discount prices (flexable) (http://flexpvc.com/)

You also need a different PVC glue than you typically buy because the spaflex likes to push itself back out. You must hold it in place with force for a minute or two to make sure it stays in place. The PVC glue is in a baby blue container made by the same brand as the typical stuff you buy at Home Depot although you can't find it at Home Depot. It is a bit more expensive as well. It says WELDON PVC 795 on the front of the container.

Here is a shot of the left side of the sump showing you how everything is tucked away - notice the horse shoe clamps as well. I have no PVC right over the sump allowing for easy siphoning and clean up.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Plumbingshot1.jpg

In this next shot(already seen) you can see everything tucked away so that the pvc was not a factor in fitting the skimmer into place

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Skimmerplumbed.jpg

After getting the system started it was obvious that the Dart was too strong(turned it way down) and the sump was creating a ton of noise. I only had one sock at the time that came with the sump and it really did not do the greatest job of keeping the detritus out of the sump. I purchased several socks so I can have some for back up. I also teed off the the one dangling drain to help vent it more to reduce the gurgling noise. The socks have eliminated all microbubbles in the display and is about as quiet as any sump I have ever heard. I also rigged a 200 micron bag on the skimmer return filled with purigen - there are two phosban reactors on the back side of the sump one filled with Phosban and the other with carbon. I have to say this tank after being cycled is crystal clear I am sure the carbon and purigen are responsible. Notice about 30lbs of live rock in the sump - I threw in all the small pieces I did not want in the display tank - more on this later. I know the socks are dirty - just took the pic this am and will be doing a water change momentarily.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/FilterSocks.jpg

The Dart has 2 returns that are teed off with pseudo locline giving me 4 jets to strategically place in the aquarium. I love this approach as they can be adjusted however I see fit - and did I mention how powerful these things are:up:

Here is a shot of the whole system while being filled with water - this was a happy day for sure:p

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Tankfilling.jpg

Jim, your new tank it great! It is obvious that you have really done your homework and it shows.

Jim, your new tank it great! It is obvious that you have really done your homework and it shows.


Thanks CarmieJo:p I had almost two months waiting on the tank and the stand to plan everything out. You always run into a few obstacles along the way no matter how well you plan. I am glad I was able to trouble shoot any issue that came up:up:

sweet, how did you get black water? lol

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Tankfilling.jpg

sweet, how did you get black water? lol



You probably can't see the octopus that I cycled the tank with - I think he was a little upset with me and squirted dye all over the place:tongue2:

Octopus! LOL!

good one bubble

good one bubble

Not really:rolleyes:

Hey V. , I am trying man:p

I have heard of many successful ways of cycling a new tank and curing live rock.

People have cycled tanks by:

1. Adding fish to the tank - I feel this is cruel to the fish no matter how hardy the species especially prior to the first two weeks the system has started cycling.

2. Adding table shrimp or something to decompose in the tank - I have never tried this method although I am sure it gets the system going.

3. Actually urinating in the tank - I know it is hard to beleive, but I recently heard a guy say this is what he does. Personally, I would not want to begin the life of any ecosystem by desecrating it in such a rude manner.:unsure: I can imagine their is quite a bit of ammonia in our urine, but please people I think we have other options.

4. and finally adding uncured live rock for the cycle - this is the only method I have tried and I am definitely not changing my ways. If it aint broke, no need to fix it. I know people have reasons to cure their rock outside of their system, but I feel their is so many benefits to curing the rock inside of the display tank that I don't want to trouble myself with setting up another system just for the live rock. It is not that I have not done this before, but the bad experience I had caused me to never do it again. First off, most people will use an inadequate container in regards to the total water volume possible which creates enormously high ammonia levels. I am not a bioligist, but can imagine that all that is left alive inside the pores of the rock would certainly not be able to survive ammonia spikes that are undetectable by test kits. All of that good stuff that is the reason we choose to use live rock in the first place needs to be in the display tank in my opinion. I was taught to start out a system this way twelve years ago by Jason(from previous post) and man did I have a lot of life when the lights went off - w/o a refugium mind you. I can remember coming home in the middle of the night(I was young once too) and turning on the room lights and seeing swarms of buggers all over the tank. It was like marine locusts had swooped in and taken over the tank. I can safely say that the quality of the live rock was definitely responsible. Jason cured his live rock for sale in a 200g tub connected to a 150g refugium(12 years ago - a man before his time). When I took a piece of rock out of this tub my arm was crawling with little buggers to the point where I had to drop the rock. To this day I have never seen a tank with swarms like this or live rock of this quality.

Now, I can understand if people have had bad experiences with pests that come in on rock that after this experience they don't ever want to risk getting this into their system. Fair enough but again if you know how to get a hold of quality live rock from reputable people the benefits of uncured live rock for a display tnak far outweighs the risks in opinion.

Meeting people in this hobby can be very helpful especially when they have connections. Mike was generous enough to call me in some quality Pompeii live rock and Pompeii fused branch that so far has paralleled the quality I received from Jason.

Here is a shot of the three 50lb boxes I got from Mike - The uncured live rock I purchased from Jason 12 years ago came in the exact same kind of box - I have not seen boxes like this in all of these years.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/LiveRockBoxes.jpg

Here are some shots of the rock that came in each box:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/LiveRockbox3.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/LiveRockBox2.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/LiveRockbox1.jpg

Mike had them pick out very large pieces - I got several 12" pieces and a couple that were more than 14 inches. Wow was this rock porous - tons of holes. I have to say one thing is for sure, I have never gotten rock that smelled like the ocean right out of the box - No joke - this rock did not smell like decaying rock what so ever. Very cool! I can certainly remember thanking Mike several times. So we finally got the rock to start the system - I decided to go a little less than 1lb per gallon to free up space in the display for particular fish. In the next part I will go into my live rock cleaning routine and the rest of cycling the tank...

I am not a bioligist, but can imagine that all that is left alive inside the pores of the rock would certainly not be able to survive ammonia (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/5012-jims-bubbletip-156g-sps-dominant-tank.html#) spikes that are undetectable by test kits.


im assuming you meant detectable here.

I think you unestimate bactera to some degree my friend, its been around since the dawn of time & will be around till the end of time, namely because adaptation for survival. Even it a paticular strain succumbs, another rises in its place. although the levels we experience, even though they may appear high, its not like they are sitting in pure ammonia! ( if i cracked open a bottle & let it sit for a week, i think even then you'd fine a strain of bactera in that bottle)
I say this like you have a slush puppy smile that needs wiping, prob the biggest note to remember- one's toxin is anothers bounty. They use these raw elements to reproduce.

nice rock bud,if your going to do it, do it big!
i guess your on a rice diet till next pay day now..lol

Hey Veriann,

I was awake during 3rd grade biology and do understand that bacteria will stay alive no matter what we do to it. And I did mean undetectable as far as the ammonia reading so green it almost looks black and you can't tell if it is at 7.5 or higher. I did get some bad rock and unfortunately used a rubbermaid to cycle it. Good thing it was only 25lbs of rock. It was literally off the charts - must have been half baked or sitting on the docks in the live rock sale pile or something.

That was not what I was referring to. The talk of hitchhikers is constant with reefkeepers. Some good and some bad. People are most worried about the bad - understandable. What I was referring to is all the good little creatures that comes with live rock. Eggs will exist in rock and if it has not been sitting on the docks baking in the sun for a week in the islands the chance of getting some of these good microcrustaceans is much higher.

Again, I do not bake rocks to kill everything that may be lurking and I don't like the idea of raising ammonia to the point of doing the same. We talk about identifying hitchikers because they may be desired by other reefkeepers or beneficial to our systems, but we still decide that sticking rock in the oven or raising ammonia levels so high that they cannot survive is a good idea. Kind of contradictory don't you think?

I was going to wait until the next part but will add here that my ammonia never went over .5 (and only for two days - tested daily) throughout the whole cycle:cool: Curing rock in a 170-180 gallon system really helps to keep the ammonia down. Most reefkeepers have been told if your ammonia goes above this point you should do a water change - in a 40-50g tub that would mean changing 40-50 gallons of water. Ouch if you have to or should have done that 4-10 times while curing the rock.:eek:

Again, I can poop in a tank to get the "bacteria" cycle going but I can't get all of the "good" stuff by killing everything in the live rock that can't handle big ammonia spikes, leaving the rock in the sun, or baking it. I didn't pay $3/lb(most people are spending $4-$6 for ultra premium) to kill everything that came with it. Again, if you know where your live rock is coming from your chances are better of not having to worry - I do realize most people don't have that luxury.

I was on Ramen noodles for a few weeks:rotfl: Rock was purchased almost six weeks ago.

Rock vs Ramen, there is no comparison!

good work bubble. i need someone to crack that wip at times.:cool:

good work bubble. i need someone to crack that wip at times.:cool:


No whip crackin' brother, just tellin' it like it is as usual:cool:

Rock vs Ramen, there is no comparison!

I was actually joking about the Ramen:p I had two months to save prior to picking up the tank and stand. Also, the girlfriend has become much more interested in reef tanks seeing the success of my 30g cube that she has also pitched into this project:love!:

I actually feed myself as healthy as I feed our dogs and fish/reef tanks. :up:

Here are some additional live rock pics taken by Sam(gf) Pretty nice shots she took. I really like that they give a different perspective of the size of the rock to my arms and hands. Nice work, Sam!

This is a sweet piece of rock - it was bright green. This was uncured rock mind you direct from the islands. I never smelt decaying rock out of the box or when the tank cycled. I know the rock will bleach the green coraline and it already has but it is nice to know what was growing on it before putting it into the system. I find the same coraline algae tends to come back to life.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/GreenCorallineLiveRock1.jpg

This is a particularly nice piece of rock because of all the beautiful 1" to 2" holes that pass all the way through it. This rock is now placed in the center of the display perfect for effective filtration for water to pass through. When rinsing this rock out, the water clearly passes through many holes as the water came out the other end. Pretty sweet piece...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/MassiveholeLiverock1.jpg

This is a nice piece of that Pompeii Fused branch. This is the top piece for a pillar I made for the right side of the display.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/PillarLiveRock_.jpg

Here is another shot of the green crusted piece.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/GreenCorallineLiveRock2.jpg

And here is another shot of the large piece with many holes. The purple coraline has all held up pretty well so far. Again nice to know what was growing on it before it fades away.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/MassiveholeLiverock2_.jpg

Yep! and thats me about as geeky as ever with my little led head lamp and painting the Chicago Bears all over me - so much for the Super Bowl contenders. Head lamps like this are great for looking inside the rock when initially searching for critters. No need to hold a flashlight and the rock. You can have both hands on the live rock with light wherever you want it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/JimLiverock_.jpg

i just wanted to say i have enjoyed this tread so far. the rock is awesome! i wish my lfs would get some nice rock like that in. and you have had a lot of compliments about the tank and plumbing so i guess i really don't have to tell you that it all looks great also! :up:

Looking great, Jim.

About the live rock - it looks really good. It's amazing the difference between a really fresh batch of live rock and one that's ... ah ... not! BTW - you are a much braver man than I - handling live rock with no gloves!

Oh, and about the Bears, it could be worse. Check out my Niners.

i new i left my beer somewhere:up:
nice mug shot to bubble, your a very sexy man, bears not withstanding:huh:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/FrontStandStaind.jpg

i just wanted to say i have enjoyed this tread so far. the rock is awesome! i wish my lfs would get some nice rock like that in. and you have had a lot of compliments about the tank and plumbing so i guess i really don't have to tell you that it all looks great also! :up:

Thanks clownfish4me! I am glad you have enjoyed the thread so far. It will get better for sure.;) The rock I got was definitely premium rock set aside to be shipped immediately without having to sit on the dock baking in the sun. This is why the odor from the box and during the cycle only reminded me of the smell of the ocean. I have already observed much life at night when the lights are out - microcrustaceans and worms. Keep chiming in because the next few weeks will get into livestock and coral.

Looking great, Jim.

About the live rock - it looks really good. It's amazing the difference between a really fresh batch of live rock and one that's ... ah ... not! BTW - you are a much braver man than I - handling live rock with no gloves!

Oh, and about the Bears, it could be worse. Check out my Niners.


As I said in the previous post, very fresh rock. Right out of the ocean:up: Still completely crusted with coraline algae and most of the coraline seems to be holding up and not bleaching even after a couple weeks under the lights.

What are you afraid of holding rocK? I probably should use gloves. typically my hands sting for a few days after cleaning uncured live rock.

And lastly, the Bears showed some life against the Packers last sunday. May be a turn around but I am not getting my hopes up. Sorry to hear about your quarterback. It looked like San Fran might have a good year this year.

i new i left my beer somewhere:up:
nice mug shot to bubble, your a very sexy man, bears not withstanding:huh:


Are you hittin' on me V?:shout: I am spoken for man. :cool:

If your ever in Chicago and want to pick up your beer, just let me know;) Got to love Pacifica:up:

yeah no worries you know me, always up for a brew!, if i am ever to go to the o' us of a, i'll have to make time for the wirl wind tour as well.:sailing: or some of the other TR crew will slog me for 6

Ok, where did I leave off. A lot of the live rock pictures you have seen are ones that were taken after the rock was thoroughly examined for any unwanted critters, brushed off of any detritus, and then rinsed several times before adding it to the tank.

Here is a pic of my live rock cleaning station. I have done it this way for 12 years. Each time I clean live rock ,I pull out my old box containing my nylon brushes, an old metal probe that I have had since I started reefkeeping, long nose pliers, short nose pliers, 3 buckets of water from the tank, some tote tub lids, a desk lamp, and of course my geeky head lamp(probably the most important item as it allows me to look in the rock for unwanted crabs, worms, or shrimp.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/LiveRockCleaningStation.jpg

I wanted to do something different to test exactly how much water is lost to the addition of the live rock and to really know how many total gallons this system holds. I purchased 150lbs of uncured rock if you remember. So what I did was fill up 2.5 gallon buckets with water from the display as it was running full of water with nothing in the display. I first took out 7.5 gallons thinking that I was going to at least need to do this 1 or 2 times more. The water was used to rinse the rock out of detritus:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/RockSwirling.jpg

Surprisingly, after cleaning all of the rock and adding it to the tank, 7.5 gallons is all I needed to take out to get the water level back to where it was with all of the live rock in the display and sump. Wow was I shocked. I really thought this amount of live rock would at least take out 15-20 gallons of water. Just proved another point to myself that this rock is highly porous, filled with holes which did not require much water to be taken out. I now have a pretty good estimate of a 180 gallon system with water in the pipes, sump, skimmer, and display. This will allow me to accurately measure out any additives that I use in my reef systems.

After all of the rock as cleaned and thoroughly inspected I placed approximately 120lbs in the display and 30lbs in the sump to free up display space for swimming room and coral growth.

Here are some shots of the first aquascapes of the tank on its first day fo cycle:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/FirstAqauscape2.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/FirstAqauscape.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/FirstFullTankShotPlumbedVertical.jpg

You will notice no sand on the bottom of the display. This is my preffered method for cycling. Reason being is I can clean the rocks off with a strong powerhead(mjmod), blowing off all of the loose detritus that I can easily vacuum off the bottom of the aquarium. I will have certainly blown sand all over the place if I added the sand while cycling. This method also keeps detritus out of the sand bed which I feel is a major cause for sand bed problems that people face. I really feel that if you can blow off as much detritus as possible during the cycle, your sand bed will be much more manageable down the road.

As stated int he previous posts, the ammonia level never went above 0.5 and was completely cycled in 3 weeks time. I did weekly water changes of 30 gallons during this process. No livestock was added during this time as well. While the system was cycling, I had time to work on finishing up the stand and canopy for lights/fans. I do not run lights myself during the curing/cycling until the cycle is complete. I did run 2 daisy chained Phosban Reactors filled with carbon in the first chamber and Phosban in the second. This is the first time I have used Phosban during a cycle thinking it may prevent a brown diatom bloom. The brown diatom bloom came as usual, so my thoguhts on this are it is a necessary step of the cycle that is unavoidable. I have heard people say they have cycled tanks without a bloom. I have never seen this myself, especially when cycling with uncured rock.
So there you have it, cycling inside the display using uncured live rock with no apparant problems noted to date. During this time I also tested levels and made additions to get the system where it needed to be.

I as well as most reefkeepers are rarely satisfied with the first, second, or even third aquascape that is attempted. I will show some other pics of different aquascapes I attempted in the following post.

Jim,
Thanks for this informative post.

BTW, I agree you can't avoid diatoms.

Yep, great post. Fascinating theory on the detritus buildup in the sandbed from cycling. There may be somthing to that. Also a really cool thought on the phosban and the diatom bloom. Didn't stop it, but very interesting none the less.

It's looking really good. Thanks for sharing.

Jim,
Thanks for this informative post.

BTW, I agree you can't avoid diatoms.

You know Carmie at this point, I try to post as much useful information as I can. I am also always open to suggestions, willing to answer questions, and available to give sound advice as best as I can. It was certainly worth a try to prevent diatoms.:up: After only 15 Astrea snails added the brown diatoms are pretty much gone in less than a week. So not bad overall. These Astreas went to town leaving bare rock behind.:) May be the phosban reactor helped. Hard to say without a control.

Yep, great post. Fascinating theory on the detritus buildup in the sandbed from cycling. There may be somthing to that. Also a really cool thought on the phosban and the diatom bloom. Didn't stop it, but very interesting none the less.

It's looking really good. Thanks for sharing.

Pearson,

I have made the mistake of putting sand in with cycling rock and had nothing but trouble with the sand bed. You would not beleive how much detritus came off during the cycle:eek: Even with rinsing and brushing off quite a bit before putting the rock in the tank. I used a MaxiJet 1200 modded with the rated 2400gph kit. Man these things are great to blow off detritus. The socks I use in the sump catches the majority of what was blown into the water column leaving a very clean tank.:) I had to change the socks out every 4 days when cycling typically after blowing off detritus a couple times every other day.

As far as the Phosban Reactor, I don't beleive it can harm anything during the cycle. It may have limited the bloom but like I said in the previous post it is hard to tell without a control. Again, I daisy chained two Phosban Reactors and filled the first chamber with carbon to reduce the organics in the water and filled the second chamber with Phosban. The carbon is great for cycling and keeping water quality up which may have helped to prevent a huge ammonia spike as well.

After the cycle was complete I then added the Purigen on the skimmer return to reduce nitrate and also to help polish the water. I have heard of people using Purigen when cycling and thing it is counterproductive. The whole idea behind cycling is to get nitrate to increase to levels that build the bacterial colonies in the system. If you use Purigen during the cycle you may reduce nitrate to the point that it takes longer to build up the good bacteria we all want. I would recommend starting it after the nitrogen cycle is complete for this reason.

Thanks for the comlpements, Pearson:)

redefined the word "rag-doll'd "
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/RockSwirling.jpg

Pearson,
I have made the mistake of putting sand in with cycling rock and had nothing but trouble with the sand bed. You would not beleive how much detritus came off during the cycle:eek: Even with rinsing and brushing off quite a bit before putting the rock in the tank. I used a MaxiJet 1200 modded with the rated 2400gph kit. Man these things are great to blow off detritus. The socks I use in the sump catches the majority of what was blown into the water column leaving a very clean tank.:) I had to change the socks out every 4 days when cycling typically after blowing off detritus a couple times every other day.First of all, very, very nice setup. Thank you for documenting your design and process. Awesome looking tank so far. I can't wait to see what your tank will look like after it cycles!

Anyway, your theory about problems with sandbeds that have cycled with LR is very interesting. It makes total sense. When you have uncured LR, it's going to have a ton of die-off and where does all this die-off go? It's got to decompose still, right?!?! When I cured my LR on my first tank, it was with "pre-cured" live rock in 5 gal buckets. I got it mail ordered and of course it had to go through another set of die-offs and the gunk it left behind in the buckets was amazing... amazingly disgusting! :P So I can totally see how this would overload a sandbed right from the get go.

Yeah, I cycled with UNcured LR, and there was tons and tons and TONS of detritus. I was still blowing it off rocks every couple of days 3 months after the cycle. I try to blow the rocks off weekly now, but it's nowhere near as much gunk.

I agree with both of your points. Things can die off six months or longer into the life of the tank. The method I used with a strong powerhead really helped to speed the process. Blowing of the rocks as much as possible is still necessary. I just don't use as strong a powerhead in areas where there are coral. Otherwise I use a turkey baster and this seems to help as well.

First of all, very, very nice setup. Thank you for documenting your design and process. Awesome looking tank so far. I can't wait to see what your tank will look like after it cycles!

Thanks Jeff for the complements:) I am glad you have enjoyed the thread. The tank has been up an running actually for 9 weeks tomorrow. I am just a little slow to put it all together in this forum. I want to cover lighting in the next section than I will get into live stock.

sweet, great read as usual bud.
you havn't sold me on the uncured rock in with your virgin sand bed though dude. detritus -yes i can understand, gangy coating material settling & infiltrating the bed during your initial sand shifting i belive to be a very benifical thing. just food for thought you could say.;)


I love the headlamp idea, bad excuse for not eating carrots as a kid, but love it just the same :D

;)sweet, great read as usual bud.
you havn't sold me on the uncured rock in with your virgin sand bed though dude. detritus -yes i can understand, gangy coating material settling & infiltrating the bed during your initial sand shifting i belive to be a very benifical thing. just food for thought you could say.;)


I love the headlamp idea, bad excuse for not eating carrots as a kid, but love it just the same :D

I agree wholeheartedly that the detritus can help to seed your sand bed. Feed,Feed,Feed! There was so much detritus and still is if I blow the rocks off now that I am sure the sand bed is getting plenty of what it needs. The problem lies with areas of the sand bed that microfauna don't get to that end up turning into a big bloom of green or red algae that everyone is trying to avoid. Just for the record, I did save a bit of detritus for the little buggers ;)


Glad you like the head lamp and yes I am a -8.5, pretty much blind without contacts:wow:

Hey Jim. I found you. You are a sexy reefkeeper. Nice shots as always. How do you like the VorTec you picked up from Reef Specialty? Were are the vortec pics? Keep the pics comming.

Hey Jim. I found you. You are a sexy reefkeeper. Nice shots as always. How do you like the VorTec you picked up from Reef Specialty? Were are the vortec pics? Keep the pics comming.

Hey Jeremy,

Do you have to spoil it for everyone?:cool: We have not gotten to circulation yet my friend:tongue2: And stop calling me sexy:unsure:

Soon enough Jeremy, most of the content here will be shared on the SPS forum on RC. I did not want to start a thread with a bare tank sitting for 3 months on there. So in good time I can get a lot of info. out there at once.

How are your 2 Vortechs you picked up? I also heard you finally got over to see Mike's tank. Pretty sweet huh! The second pillar is awesome:up: If you still have my number, give me a call and let me know what you are doing with the Vortechs.

Also check out the 30g cube thread on here as well:

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/2474-jims-30g-cube.html

Jim

Jim the thread looks great.........Love the plumbing job....

Mike

RS welcome to the club bud, fancy that, im a poet & didn't know it, & again..lol how did saying hello turn into a conversation about me:unsure:

Welcome Mike good to see you on TR. Mike you should start a thread on your tank here on TR. For all that don't know Mike is Acropora nut on RC and his tank was Septembers TOTM.

Jim, I saw your cube thread, Looks great. I also tried calling several times last week, no answer. Look forward to talking with you though.

RS - welcome to Talkingreef.

V - what exactly is a V-series Production? Here's my guess:

50% beer
25% humor
15% knowledge
10% ego

:D

Jim the thread looks great.........Love the plumbing job....

Mike


:whazzup: Mike! Welcome to Talkingreef. You finally made it. Hey we all start as curious reefers, right Mike?;) This is a real good opportunity for Talkingreef. I have been in this hobby a long time and have not met anyone that can grow coral like Mike can. It is pretty amazing what he has been able to do.

I had read a thread on RC regarding MH bulbs and Mike had a pic of his tank with 12K Reeflux bulbs only over his beautiful tank. At the time I was deciding on my lighting setup, I PM'd Mike and he did not even want to answer with a private message. He gave me his phone number and asked me to call him. From there he gave me daily advice, we worked on getting his TOTM photos together, and to this day we pretty much talk on a daily basis. What I have noticed is Mike is very open to questions and really likes to help people work towards becoming as successful as he has been. I thought I knew a lot before I met Mike. I guess we have learned a lot from each other actually. At any rate take advantage TR folk of the opportunity. Mike has got some golden tips for people.

I am glad you enjoyed the thread. Long winded as usual,huh?

And I should thank you again for helping me plumb the tank. You say I could have done it without you, but I still felt safer with your expertise to bounce ideas off of when we did it. Thanks Mike!

I am sure Mike wants to take a break from writing about his tank on here with pictures as the TOTM was a lot of work for both of us. I am sure everyoen can get a good idea from the Sept. TOTM aticle on RC.

What I think would be nice Mike is if you ever get that frag tank started to show what you are doing with that.

Welcome Mike good to see you on TR. Mike you should start a thread on your tank here on TR. For all that don't know Mike is Acropora nut on RC and his tank was Septembers TOTM.

Jim, I saw your cube thread, Looks great. I also tried calling several times last week, no answer. Look forward to talking with you though.

Glad you liked the cube thread:) Sorry I was not available most of the weekend starting Thursday. My brother got married and there was a lot of family in town. I will PM you with my cell phone. Easier to get a hold of me that way. I gave you my home phone number and I was just not home at all. Sorry Jeremy:rolleyes:

I would have to agree that putting the TOTM article was a lot tougher for me than figuring out how to grow coral. I will definitely get my frag tank started soon and will start my own thread. I love helping newcombers to the hobby and share as many of my positive and negative experiences that I can. Thanks Jim for all of the complements and thank you for helping me with the TOTM.



I don’t want to hijack Jim’s thread even though I am sure he does not mind, but until I get a thread started I will be posting on the forums and anyone can PM me with questions about the TOTM or anything else that revolves around reefkeeping.



Rob, looks like you got a great thing going here and thank you for keeping it real. Seems like a great forum for the experienced and the newcombers. It is kind of a nice change of pace to some of the other reefkeeping forums. Looks like a great community with many helping individuals, which is pretty much what I am al about. I will have to check out some of the podcasts I keep hearing about.:up:

RS welcome to the club bud, fancy that, im a poet & didn't know it, & again..lol how did saying hello turn into a conversation about me:unsure:

Thx's for the kind welcome V .....

:D

Mike

Hi Mike and :welcome: to TR. This is certainly the place to be if you enjoy helping others and it's even better that it happens in an environment where you are not likely to get flammed. Although we may tell someone that we disagree with them we won't tell them that they are stupid.

V - what exactly is a V-series Production? Here's my guess:

50% beer
25% humor
15% knowledge
10% ego

:D


OOOoooo! so close

50% beer
20% spirits
10% attempted humor
15% ego
2.5% knowledge . slipping fast
2.5% spare to load shift into other areas,

RS wrote "Rob, looks like you got a great thing going here and thank you for keeping it real. Seems like a great forum for the experienced and the newcombers. It is kind of a nice change of pace to some of the other reefkeeping forums. Looks like a great community with many helping individuals, which is pretty much what I am al about".


you know, i couldn't have said that any better! ;)
We are the punch bowl, experienced & green alike all in the same bowl.
No-one can tell whats in punch, it just tastes weird, but you keep drinking it anyways...lol
You wont hear any..... " never fear, cause i is here" BS like some of our other cyber locations. The worst these guys have to put up with is me :D.
Pull up a chair bud, beers are........on rob, & belt out a few cracker posts so i can start asking my "but why" questions. :raining:

Lets see some more picks....Jim

I'll second that! :D
How are the rocks coming along?

I will definitely get some pics up soon guys. Hold on to your panties, Jeremy:p Let's see what you got brewing up in the meantime,Jeremy. Heard the tank setup went really well.

Hey Jeff,
The rock is doing really well. Surprisingly the majority of the purple coraline algae did not bleach. I was not expecting this at all. Typically the coraline will bleach out and especially under 400w bulbs. The green coraline algae did not stay however. I am interested to see if it returns.

I have probably reaqauscaped this tank ten times already. I always think it is the final display until I have to move a coral around and then feel the need for a change. Hopefully I can pin this down soon so I can start glueing the colonies in their final resting places.

...in their final resting places.That sounds so... I dunno... final! How about their happy sitting places. :D LOL.

But that's good to hear about your rocks! When I get my tank going I think I'm gonna set it up like how you did! Bare bottom first.

Have you added sand yet? Or are you going bare bottom?

I did add a 50lb bag of ESV sand("Fine Grade" Ultra-White Calcium Carbonate Reef Substrate (http://www.esvco.com/prod5.html)) and a 40lb bag of Ocean Direct. I really feel I have too much sand and will likely take out 20lbs or so over the next couple months. It came out to about 3 inches of sand throughout the tank. The sand bed calculator on RC does not factor into account the rock structure so I would not recommend basing your sand purchasing on that. I actually have another bag of Ocean Direct just sitting here as it would have been way too much to add to this 24 inch deep tank.

The main problem I am having right now is keeping the sand in place with only one Vortech pump, the Dart return and a MJmod. The Vortech is an awesome pump for a tank this size but it is just tricky to place in a way that keeps the sand down. Oceanic makes a 30 inch tank(178g) with the same foot print and I wish I would have went this route to make it easier to work the pumps and keep the sand still.

What I do to make sure that I have a cloudless tank when adding the sand is using a drink pitcher. I rinsed the ESV sand off about seven times in 10lb increments in a 5lb bucket to wash a lot of the dust away. I then scoop out as much as will fill up in the pitcher. I then slowly lower the pitcher in the water so the sand stays in the pitcher. I then lower it down to the bottom and slowly shimmy it out onto the bottom of the tank. I continued this until all of the sand was place din the tank. I did not rinse the Ocean Direct sand. In about 3 hours my tank was completely clear.:up: