Algae Removal Question

[rroselavy]

Hello all,

I've heard mention of this method of turning off your lights for 3 days every month or so to kill nuisance algae. Even more often I've heard of pruning LR by either grabbing clumps of nuisance algae out of your tanks or removing LR from your tank to scrub the LR with a toothbrush. What I seem to hear the least is a recommendation for the tank owner to address the nutrients that are feeding the algae.

My question is this: If you are aggressively removing/killing back nuissance algae, wouldn't you be causing a spike in your nitrates or posphate levels soon after? Wouldn't it be advisable to add more macroalgae at the same time to compensate?


BTW: My Nano had a moderate case of brown wafer algae a while back that was handily removed by reduced feeding and the addition of a Sally Lightfoot Crab. I've saw very small instances of bubble algae during my tanks first six months, but none today. I have one very small yet persistent tuft of what must be hair algae (or Maiden's Hair?) that has not grown at all in the last 6 months. No real worries right now, but I am beginning plans on a tank upgrade that will finally afford me room for a refugium...yay!

[JayBeDriften]

Rroselavy, I'm sure that nutrients and lighting are definitely a problem especially with a nano aquarium being that the amount of total water volume attributes to increased issues with algea. I have personally never tried the method of turning off lights for a period of time. I have heard of removing rocks and scrubbing them but then you start to upset the natural balance of things in your tank and have to redo your aquascaping and hope you don't crush or ruin anything in the process. My questions for you are below:

1. Do you have a cleanup crew within your Nano Aquarium and if so what does it consist of?
2. What is the photoperiod of your lighting system now on your Nano Aquarium?
3. Do you or will you consider adding some sort of Phosphate Sponge into your Nano Aquarium>
4. Do you us RO/DI water in your Nano Aquarium?
5. Do you or have you though about running an Ultraviolet Unit on you Nano Aquarium?

[rroselavy]

JayBeDriften-

My question was hypothetical, as I do not really have a notable algae issue right now. I was confused by the common recommendation that I have read (here and elsewhere) to remove the effect (nuissance algae) instead of preventing the cause (excess nutrients).

Needless to say, I will happilly answer your questions:


1. Do you have a cleanup crew within your Nano Aquarium and if so what does it consist of?

Yes. Currently 5 Nassarius, 7 Astraea. 2 Tonga Fighting Conch, 3 red legged hermits, 1 Sally Lightfoot Crab, and 1 Cleaner Shrimp.


2. What is the photoperiod of your lighting system now on your Nano Aquarium?

7 hours (3pm-10pm). It has been that way for 10 months.


3. Do you or will you consider adding some sort of Phosphate Sponge into your Nano Aquarium>

Yes. I already use PURA pads, and refresh them with every water change. It is the only sponge-like media I have in my nano. I cut two pads, rinse them in RO/DI and stack them in my overflow chamber with the white side up. I've only been doing this for the last month or so.


4. Do you us RO/DI water in your Nano Aquarium?

Yes. I have a Aquasafe Maximus RO/DI unit I bought and installed over 6 months ago. I use this for top off. However, I do buy NSW since I get fairly cheap prices ($0.60 per gallon) and it simplifies my maintenance. I am currently looking into getting a new source of NSW...my current LSF sells me this water they say is "Catalina" (Real Ocean - SG 1.026) water, but I am not so convinced. Another LSF sells NSW that they get from Scripps Research here in Southern California. The SG for the Scripps water is 1.023. I am not sure if this is optimum when I start keeping corals. Right now my tank is FOWLR.

5. Do you or have you though about running an Ultraviolet Unit on you Nano Aquarium?[/QUOTE]

Hmm. I've read that UV sterilizers are not necessary, and may actually kill some beneficial bacteria...but I could stand to do more research into that.

Thanks,

-Scott

[wwest]

I turn my lights off almost once every 2 months. It really helps the tank. In my situation anyways. I would give it a shot. Everything in your tank can live for 3 days with out light and also during this time do not feed the tank. I have recommended this to people locally and this has gotten rid of small amounts of air algae and red slime. This is a great method for first line of defense.

[rroselavy]

Everything in your tank can live for 3 days with out light and also during this time do not feed the tank.

I did not know that you should not feed the tank. This makes perfect sense, but leads me to another newb question:

How long can your fish go without being fed?

Will this cause the fish stress?


I have one Ocellaris Clown (1.5" long), 1 PJ Cardinal (1.75"), one Yasha Haze Goby (2") and 1 Cleaner Shrimp. My regular feeding is 1/4 cube of frozen food, 4 times a week. Pretty spare. The longest I have ever gone without feeding them is 2 days.

Thanks,

-Scott

[wwest]

No they should be fine, Most fish will scavenge for them self if they get hungry. I usually just keep a close eye on mine during the day and make sure movement and everything stays the same. I only have a pair of ocellaris in my tank and while they do love the day when the lights come on (because its food time) they don't seem to mind the black out. I usually make sure mine doesn't turn on the first morning and then when time is up i wait till about 1:00am and get the lights ready to turn them selfs on the next morning. I also feed mine the day before i turn the lights off. Just make sure it the same amount you always feed it. Sometimes people will think that because of the next few days they won't have any food so they feed them more. Well that kind of defeats the purpose of turning the lights out lol. But i can understand where they are coming from.


Shouldn't cause stress at all. They will just look around for another source of food to snack on or just wait it out. I don't really see mine looking around

[CarmieJo]

I agree with Wes that your fish will be fine for 3 days without eating. I would not recommend this on a more frequent basis but as long as they are being fed regularly otherwise they will be fine.

There is another side to the coin of your question. I was on vacation for 10 days. My fish sitter overfed and I came home to a tank of HA. It's a real pretty green color. :)

The environmental factor has been removed, I'm not overfeeding now but neither am I willing to starve my fish. I rinse the mysis that I feed and my other foods don't show phosphorus or nitrogen in any form so the only nutrients come from the fish. I've already done a lights out and am manually removing the stuff but, 2 weeks after returning home, I'm having a hard time getting rid of it. In this situation it is hard to test for common culprits because the HA is exporting all the nutrients. However I know that before I went on vacation PO4 and NO3 were both zero. My plan, continue with manual removal and twice weekly water changes and if that doesn't work lights out again in a couple more weeks.

It is interesting to note that my water is crystal clear!

[V]

i was the first cab off the ranks last night, wrote a rather long write up outlining a fair bit actually in the usual v-series flair, only the have a server timeout that dumped everything......so im going to say hello now! hello:o

[CarmieJo]

Rrrr, I HATE it when that happens!

i was the first cab off the ranks last night, wrote a rather long write up outlining a fair bit actually in the usual v-series flair, only the have a server timeout that dumped everything......so im going to say hello now! hello:o

[rroselavy]

i was the first cab off the ranks last night, wrote a rather long write up outlining a fair bit actually in the usual v-series flair, only the have a server timeout that dumped everything......so im going to say hello now! hello:o

Thanks for your efforts V. For longer posts, I make it a habit to periodically select my entire body of text and copy it into memory (A quick Command-A & Command-C on my Mac) so if something happens, at least I don't have to start from scratch...

-Scott

[rroselavy]

There is another side to the coin of your question. I was on vacation for 10 days. My fish sitter overfed and I came home to a tank of HA. It's a real pretty green color. :)

We are about to try a new Dog/Fish sitter this week while we are away. Your starting to get me worried... :o

I've got everything pre-measured, so hopefully it will be a no-brainer.


I rinse the mysis that I feed and my other foods don't show phosphorus or nitrogen in any form so the only nutrients come from the fish.

I should start rinsing again. I tried once but my procedure was far too tedious.


Thanks for the input!

-S

[CarmieJo]

I've got everything pre-measured, so hopefully it will be a no-brainer. I did that but apparently feed every other day wasn't really clear because 4 days into a 10 day vacation she called saying "there is only one more package of food." Since I really don't like to starve my fish I told her to feed the package in 2 days and then every other day feed a teensy tiny pinch of food. I guess one gal's pinch is another's pound. I'd suggest labeling the pre-measured food with dates!


I should start rinsing again. I tried once but my procedure was far too tedious.I use a small kitchen sieve and thaw the mysis in it over a cup. I then give it a quick rinse with RO, discard the thaw/rinse water and tap it into the cup and away I go. :)

[lReef lKeeper]

We are about to try a new Dog/Fish sitter this week while we are away. Your starting to get me worried... :o

I've got everything pre-measured, so hopefully it will be a no-brainer.

Thanks for the input!

-S

i JUST wrote an article on this subject (preparing for vacation in this hobby) for reefreaders.com, but unfortunately ... it wont be out for a month or so (i think).
BTW ... i agree with all of the advise that you have gotten so far.

[saltreef29]

Hello,

I am not new to reef tanks although I had taken a 5 year break from having any fish tanks at all so relearning a few things. I am currently having a bad red slime and green algae problem in the tank. I am not sure if this had to do with over supplementation or over lighting but I have decreased my lighting time by 4 hours during the day. I do believe the problem comes from the fact I switched to MH lighting on the tank. I have also reduced feeding to once every two days. I am also trying out the green machine, UV Sterilizer, suppose to kill the algae directly as well as cleaning up the water and remove its food supply. I am running one seaclone skimmer on it and by the way have had mixed feedback about those some say they work great others say they are garbage, I get about half a cup of black green thick scum everyday, seems to be working. The tank has been going now for 3 months. I do have a question though, can too much dissolved oxygen in the tank cause growth of this kind of algae. The seaclone does put out fine bubbles which are carried through the tank by my powerhead. I have since put a good size piece of fine wadding in a mesh bag and with an elastic band fit it around the spout of the skimmer effectively catching these bubbles before they are allowed to spread through the tank. This method seems to work well and catches about 75% of the bubbles coming out. Also I have stopped all supplementation except for Kalkwasser which seemd to make the skimmer work better and gets rid of phosphate. I do this once a day making the mixture at night and applying it to the tank in the morning when nitrites would be lowest. Should I turn off the MH for a while and go strictly with my two T5s that are on the tank as well? Thanks.

[Reefbaby]

Hi saltreef29! Welcome to TR! It's great to pull in old hobbyists and get them back in the game!

So...is there any reason that you need to have the lights on at all right now? If so, maybe you could cut back all lighting until you gte a hang of the algaes...both of them. You say you have it going for about 3 months now, but do you already have fish and corals? What are you feeding? In terms of the green algae, if you were to get a clean-up crew, I'm sure they would devour that within a few days. With my tangs and my clean-up crew, I have a hard time keeping any green algae going in my tank...

Cyanobacteria (red slime algae) is almost always a sign of high nutrients. This can be caused by many things: over-feeding, phosphate-rich food, low nutrient outtake, low water flow, lack of nitrate-reducing bacterial population, etc. So, it would be good for you to figure out which of the factors you could try to work on. Obviously feeding is something that you can reduce, provided the fish remain healthy. Rather feed less, but more often and make sure the critters are eating everything up within a few minutes.
It sounds like your skimmer is working well, so I wouldn't worry too much about that, regardless of what the "jury" claims in terms of its performance.
I doubt that the switch to MH lights would cause the cyano bloom, unless the bulbs are all old and running at a different spectrum now.
What kind of flow do you have going through your system. It often helps to get a little bit more going, especially in the areas where you have red slime and high algae growth.

In terms of dosing and supplementation...Kalkwasser is great and will also help you to keep your KH in the good range. It's also been shown to help precipitate out the dissolved phosphates. But, what about your other parameters? Are you measuring for things, such as Magnesium, pH, phosphates, nitrates, etc.? I find Magnesium a very good supplement and I try to keep the values at about 3X the calcium levels.

Are you using RODI water? Tap water can often have high amounts of phosphates...it's crucial to use RODI water in a reef system.

okay...I'll stop babbling now! Best of luck!

[CarmieJo]

Hello saltreef29 and :welcome: to TR. The only thing I can add to Christi's excellent answer is to ask your tank parameters.

[V]

hey RB, you've been my book havn't you? lol & ive even paid rob on the side to get in front of bobby's editions so i can steal some of his talented thunder!
Is that spit i feel?:raining:


Welcome to the club SR29

[Reefbaby]

hey RB, you've been my book havn't you? lol & ive even paid rob on the side to get in front of bobby's editions so i can steal some of his talented thunder!
Is that spit i feel?:raining:

you mean like your own drool??! :tongue2:

[saltreef29]

Hello All,

Well I would like to thank you all for your input. I seem to be having a problem viewing icons on these posts I would like to thank you all for your advice and hit the piece sign but they are not showing up on my computer nor my friends computer I am writing on now. Anyway I will have to try to figure out why or I will be saying this every post.:)

As far as the reef tank goes all is good. I am getting green coraline, maroon and lots of purple now. No more red slime since I switched to RO water. And you were right 1 day a week would not have been enough for the MH so I cut the time daily in half and it is only 4 hours now daily. Other then that I have only 3 strips, two actinic and one 6500k. The two t5's come on first in the morning then another comes on an hour later then the MH comes on at 10:30 and goes off at 2:30 then the two t5's go off at 5 and the one actinic goes off at 7:30. This seems to be working great, my clam looks very healthy and I notice in the morning that he has the most beautiful greenish color come out on the edges very nice. My two anemones are doing great and love on occasion to be fed mussles, the clown bites at it as the anemone is eating it. I also have a Ricorda mushroom in there I didn't mention before but he/she seems to be dividing now and looks healthy. I do have one question though. My Octo bubble coral looks great and opens up great in the day but I am not sure if this should be fed like anemones. These do have a mouth in the middle and I did notice a piece of mussle that got away from me hit one and it disappeared in the tenticles. I am assuming it was eaten so my question is do these need to be fed like anemones? I thought that they didn't but not sure now. Also the only supplements I use on a weekly basis are Kalkwasser and Combi-Sans I was told with these two nothing else is needed although I do use Magnesium from time to time. Thanks all. Robb

[saltreef29]

Ok got the button problem fixed I think not sure what was going on there but I will use the buttons from now on. Thanks!

Robb

[THEJRC]

Most algaes will tolerate strange photoperiods and some even benefit from a dark cycle to rest but yes jumping out of swing will stunt them temporarily and in many cases it works to kill them off as other competing nutrient grabbers get a head start during that period. To really keep it in check you need to do more than one thing and removal of course helps as it gives whatever is competing that chance.

It's all about the competition in a smaller reef environment, many people with nano's have a harder time simply due to the smaller space and lack of bio-diversity to compete with nuisance algaes, a simple peice of macro in the display that you can keep in check (look at some of the red kelps or something that's appealing) may be the tide changer that you need. Keeping nutrients in check and physical removal of the algae as well are other facets to the approach.

Funny but this is the third thread today I've brought this up but a great removal tool I put together is to rubber band a hose (airline or larger) to a nylon bristle brush, during your next water change pick out as much of the algae as possible with your fingers and then start a siphon and brush the affected areas clean. It works great and it's a lot easier than any other method I've tried!