i have finaly chosen to go with natural sea water i live close to the soth coast of england and we have the gulf stream go past our door. all the paramiters apear to be the same as most reef systems. :agree:
but (there is always a but) , i was reading a string where it was sugested that the slinity will be afected by the sand bed and live rock:huh:
is this true? and would i still have to use the procesed stuff. as there is surley quiet a large leway. as in the wild there is rain storms river / land wash.and shurly sun evaperation will make surface water contain more salt on some days.
there was a note that appeared to sugest that is the stability that was more important to maintain?

opinions please:shout:

I would be far more concerned with pollutants! Most people that use natural seawater use water collected a ways offshore and not at the surface. Try getting the water tested by a gas chromatograph or a mass spectrometer. This will tell you what you are putting in your tank! HOWEVER, pollutants not there today could spike dractically at any time. Are you sure you really want to try this?

First and foremost my dyslexic friend, WELCOME to the Talkingreef. Glad to have you here. Big shout out from New England, to good Ol' England.

While there may be residual salts in the sand and rock, it is not going to be enough to affect a reasonable sized system. It should NOT raise the SG much, if any at all.

For what it's worth, I've found that natural salt water (NSW) is a little low in the salinity and often have to let mine sit and evaporate some, or add some Instant Ocean or other product to help raise the salinity.

Keep in mind that if you are using two part additives or other additives, you MAY have a small increase in salinity anyways.

As with anything else you do in the hobby, you'll want to test, adjust, and test again.

I'm a fan of NSW. I use it as often as possible. You just need to make sure you match the salinty, alk, calc, etc. to that of the natural waters where the specimens you keep are found. Whether it be Red Sea, Pacific, Carib etc.

Dave

thanx justdave, good to hear from a pro NSW user. there is mention that you should let it stand to allow you to raise the temp and allow setlement. and that this should be done while airting to keep alive all that good free food.
also while sihponing into the tank allways leave an amount at the bottom so as not to disturb the settlement.

is this true and do you have a set time? or is it best to reach the paramiters as quick as posible so as to preserve as much free floating live stuff?

sorry dave ive just found your podcast and listning to you as i type , many thanx

Hi kodocat and :welcome: to TR.

No worries...

Yeah... when I collect, I let it sit, in 5 gallon buckets, with NO airline, for a few days. I then siphon it out (all but the bottom 1/2 inch of sediment) into a 20 gallon bucket, where I adjust for temp, ph, calicum etc.

Dave

as this is my first SWT , i have decided to reuse an old fresh water and upgrade it!
ive bought a "prizum pro"this is masive over kill for a small 45 tank, but all the forums sugest that by big now so that i can up grade later at little extra cost ha ha! the built in cerculation pump behind the skimmer ive swaped for a chep pond pump .with the hope that its not to manly for the job but if it goes it hasnt cost me to much?and the strips are now "3ft T8 marine x2". the only thing left is to replace the existing heater with a new one. there is just to many hora stories about what happens when they go wrong.
id like to thank you all in the comunity for getting me this far if it wasnt for all the talk in such an open maner then this would be a dauntig hobbie even for people used to FWT.
thanks.
ps: this is going to be a long drawn out log book as i am doing this on a shoe string. and ive just busted my ankle while rock pooling.

Hi,

One thing to be careful of when you used the tank for FW did you ever use a med containing copper? If so you will want to be careful as the Cu can be in the silicon seals and will then leach out into the water. Cu is poison to invertebrates.

I have a VisiTherm heater. For safety I run it with a temperature controller. But I still had a heat incident when the controller failed, my chiller didn't run and my tank when up to 90 F (about 30 C).

found a company in england that make reflectors for all types of marine lighting. they had a list of shops that outlet for them. and one of them was just down the road. it clips on to my t8's one for each of them. great salotion. also got me new heater again its rated well over the tank size so should not be over worked. keeping the old one to pre heat water topups etc.

next is the water and all this theory start to get real!at last.

dose any body know if you should run the protine skimmer with air while cycling the tank? or isit best left off compleatly! or maybe runit with the air off?

tryed to listen to episode 50 TR but cant down load any think it keeps asking for a pass word? never done that before,
foots getting better so should be able to hall the 45 gallons of water from the sea soon.

it is really up to you. i say not to, but Justdavidp say to, so it is your call.

ive decided to run the protine skimmer without air .So that i get maximum flow through out the tank, but without exstracting any protine .That i need to help feed the bacteria! the hope is that this should help with the cycling. many thanks bobby for your imput.

crying shame about the pod casts, they were the thing that atracted me to this site in the first place hope the lack of access dosent put any other newbies off? and more to the point i hope the team get this sorted out soon. as it is one of the worlds best and i for one am desperate to listen to the next........................ones.

Can you still not download them?

yes tried to down load ones i have watched before, but sorry no go .

I thought that the problem was resolved but over the weekend it has reared its ugly head and I have heard of others having the same problem. Rob is working on getting it resolved.

good luck with the podcast's, rob & carmie

got me water gravity 1.0225 no adjustments

took two trips with my 6yr old, she realy enjoyed helping dad by throwing the bucket into the sea. untill she saw the size of the fish a bloke next to us caught.

my son got the pleasure of turning on the pumps, and lights for the first time!

every body got well fasinated by the water flow moving my nice flat sand into a mini shara desert. i will asume that when i get my live rock the obsticals will slow the flow down?

and my wife got the pleasure of sniffing the roting prawn i put in last night. lol.

first job day 2 open the windows, glad im not doing this in the winter or i would never be forgiven.

day 3 clearing nicely ,but i exspect it to go uck! again when the algy starts to bloom.

nitrit up to 0.3 and nitrate at 10. hope this sounds right ?

when do i remove the dead prawn roting in the corner?

Greetings from the Colonies,
I would remove it now. I have never been a big fan of that rotting shrimp trick. Get your LR ASAP. Run your tank as you would normally, but without lights. This will keep down the blooms. I would also advocate not using a skimmer until your tank has cycled. It just removes the bio stuff you want to get the good bacteria eating. Back in the day, we used to toss in a blue DAMNsel fish as a sort of salt water parakeet. They can provide all the ammonia you need to get the cycle going, are fine with no lights, and you can take him back to the LFS when you are ready for real fish and corals. Much more fun for the kids than dead shrimp too.
OBTW.... I thought they spoke English in England?:up:

technowledgy thanks for the quick reply.

will take your advise as the little lady will apreciate the loss of the shrimp.
but will continue to use the skimmer as a circulation pump,without air.
nice point about the lights.
though iam really going to have to talk nicely to my LFS we obviously dont have the same return policy that you enjoy in the usa.

by the way justdavid hit the nail on the head being dislexic seriosly damages your writting abuility. but i can paint a mean picture, so lifes not so bad. and it dosent efect my speach ?

LOL! I agree that you should add the LR now. It will be your primary filter and is needed to really establish the nitrogen cycle. I recommend NOT using fish to cycle your tank. It will work but you are then keeping the fish in a toxic environment and there are far kinder ways to introduce the ammonia needed to start the cycle.

im glad i didnt put a fish in! as the readings are now sky high.

nitrite 1.6, nitrate 110? this appears exstreamly higha the topof the scale for nitrate, but this could be a good thing?

cristal clear and waiting for the readings to drop!

rob & carmie
good news the pod casts worked at last, cant wait to catchup now.

I'm glad you are finally able to download the podcasts. Have you added the LR?

what is your ammonia reading?

it was a bankholiday this weekend .so shop was shut! unable to order the LR. and back to work today :-( . the dock says foot okay ! if not he has threatend me with phisio.

on thursday before the BH weekend. i did by an ammonia test kit but it was void of the instructions. so imposible to use. so no idea what the reading is , but will keep u posted as soon as i know.

What brand is the kit? Maybe one of us has the instructions.

it was a bankholiday this weekend .so shop was shut! unable to order the LR. and back to work today :-( . the dock says foot okay ! if not he has threatend me with phisio.

on thursday before the BH weekend. i did by an ammonia test kit but it was void of the instructions. so imposible to use. so no idea what the reading is , but will keep u posted as soon as i know.

try to get it before adding anything.

Since you have nitrite you know that you have had ammonia. What you don't know is if the ammonia spike has come and gone. Keep monitoring the nitrites and nitrates and watch to see nitrite peak and recede. If nitrite starts to recede that means that you hape passed the ammonia spike.

live rock orderd and on its way for tommorow.

listened to the early pod casts on nitrite cycle, and deep sand beds. from them it clearly says that you need live rock to establish an anerobic bacteria as it takes so long for it to establish in a deep sand bed.

still havent had time to get the amonia kit. but it is the weekend and a payday, so looking good.

found a new product for aclimatizing fish, it a big pot that slowly sinks over a one hour period , taking on board water from your own tank, they strongly say to do this with the lights of the tank and room off! and keep them off for anouther hour after you have removed the pot.
it is sugested that this should remove stress and make for a smother transision?

was going to get some miliput to make a cave and a stack with the rock, but got no shopping time ? so will get it after delivery and introduction to tank. and the sizes of the peices will dictate what i want to do.

The sinking pot sounds convenient but I NEVER put the water from the LFS into my tank. Many LFS use copper and other meds in their tanks and these are not things you want in your display tank. So if it is going to just dump the water into your tank I would not use it. Leaving the lights off in your tank makes for a more gentle transition and may help reduce aggression from tank mates.

live rock arrived 5 good sizes lots of coraline. very nice! thanks reef store .

looking good will probably rearange when the sand has settled again. but one stack and the opposite corner looks like the final arangement. and should allow room for growth off corals later in the tanks life. as well as giving shade for the anenomies foot.

first in will be , snails money coweries for the alge, and some scavengers for the deep sand bed. pluss hermits for my kids! they have been collecting small spiral shells, some of them absolutly miniture i think they are hoping for babys? i'll start surfing to see how to or if you can breed them?

but as that is why they want the clown fish, knowing my luck you cant do both!

thanks carmie just the rock makes all the diff.

It can happen but hermits are not likely to reproduce in your tank. Clownfish can be bred and reared in captivity. They aren't guppies but they aren't impossible. You need a separate tank to raise the fry. Were you able to get the clownfish podcasts?

pod casts all working now .
down loaded the instructions of the net for the test kit.

the clown fish and anenomie were great pod casts i know its robs thing but his pashion is contagious.
hermits hatch as very small plancton size, so i imagine that all the preditors will goble them up before any mature. as they will have nowhere to hide.

since the live rock went in worm trails have apeared in the sand, found one very small anenomie the size of a biro tip. and a feather worm? some nice coraline as well.

my little yellow freind dashing in and out of his hole is fasinating, cant wait for the bigger stuff, but as every body tells us , patients it takes time.

Make sure the anemone isn't aiptasia.

carmi the one i spoted wasnt, but the tube my wife found was and as it was only one ive pulled it off! so i hope that will be the end of it? though there is allways the chance that i might of made it stronger! i hope not.

i have a dusting of green alge over the sand bed and all my readings say go ahead.

in the back of my head there is a note about puting in a small bit of food to test the population ,so ill go surfing to see if i remember right or not?

then its time to tell the kids the good news, and shop for some snails/ hermits.

i was thinking about what you said carmine about the worrie of shop water, and the sinking pot. and what i might try is to stop just short of full sinking and then scoup out what ever ive bought? though this has the worrie of a suden shock, from the big mit of god plucking them from the water. and giving them stress any way! cant see away round this, especialy with inverts that are very susceptable to this.

may be a bucket of water from the tank to sink the pot into? then it can be throwen away as long as ive set myself up for a small water change first.

any thoughts?

What I do is put the fish in its bag into a bucket or if there is enough water in the bag I gently put the fish and water into the bucket. Then I start a siphon in a tube like this http://www.kentmarine.com/assets/005/8758.pdf because it is easy to control the drip rate. You can also use airline tubing with a valve. Here is an article Reefreaders - Acclimating Fish (http://www.reefreaders.com/content/view/39/1/) that will help and has pictures of the airline/valve setup. Over the course of an hour or more I triple the amount of water. When the water level reaches about double I remove about half so that by the end there is mostly my tank water with the fish. Here is an article Reefreaders - Acclimating Fish (http://www.reefreaders.com/content/view/39/1/) that will help.

I NEVER introduce new critters directly into my display tank. I have a cheap 10 gallon tank with NO florescent lights for my QT (quarantine tank) tank. It is kept empty on the shelf in the garage unless I have something in QT. Here is an article on QT. Reefreaders - Quarantine Now! (http://www.reefreaders.com/content/view/22/1/).

BEWARE if you "Ordered" live rock and it was shipped to you...DO NOT put it directly in your tank! There is a lengthy process for curing live rock. The die off will cause ammonia spikes that will NUKE your tank!

thanx for both of your replies.

phil i bought the rock direct from the suppliers to lfs , it is fully cured. that was the sad point as it is very hard to get uncured rock strait from sea/outlet/home. this is my first tank so i was hopeing to use uncured. and have some suprises along the way iether good or bad!( though maybe more good.) how ever i am very happy with the rock i got good shapes and coulor.

to reasure you both i will be waiting another week to ensure that the tank is balenced, but i was asking do i feed the nitrogen cycle?our just add live stock ( invertrabates)to keep it ticking over untill im ready for fish anenomie or whatever!

lots of info on hermits, the one that suprised me was how few you should add( one or two for my 45gal tank)! as most stores offer them in packs? that was a thread on this site thanx for just being here for me. makes keeping koi look like...........well when i had them all i did was feed them and they bread like rabbits.

qt tank will come later when i have somethink to protect! and ive built the shed at the bottom of the garden to hid it.

You will want to add a tiny bit of food to keep your tank's cycle going. What are your parameters now? Once you have zero ammonia and nitrite and the nitrate has fallen off you can go ahead and add a couple of hermits or snails. Watch your parameters carefully to see if any of them move. If they stay the same you could add a small fish or two the next week. Otherwise wait for them to return to their previous level. Clowns are quite hardy. Anemones are sensitive and you should not add them for 6 months to a year.

thanx carmie

temp 80
nitrite 0
nitrate 5
gravity 1.0225
ph 8
po4 1

and the bloom is brown not green.

dose the garlic trick realy workwith moving the clown fish?
as me and the kids realy liked the idea of housing them as a pair. (anenomie & boy, girl ocellaris) is the 6mnt - year to ensure enough food within the system?

and if that is the only reason ,will the fact that all my water will coming strait from the ocean negate that reason.
isit because people are relying on a deep sand bed to feed!or that the anenomie dose?

sorry if its a lot of questions.

carmie
i was following a thread on hermits and found anouther helpfull note from you to anouther newby.
you said that you have a large population of various types of hermits! in your tank.
so here is my inevitable list of questions.

how do they get on?
is their inter species rivalry?
are their any two types that you would definatly not put together?
and would red leged and blue leged get on?
there appears to be camps for both so i thought one of each?
as this is the what im hopping to buy this weekend, at lfs as they just arived today. and it will give them 4 days to settle after there trip!

The six months to a year advice about anemones is because they are really sensitive to water quality. Even though you will be using NSW you will still have to have a fully mature tank.

I don't have any problem between my hermits. They are fun to watch and good reef janitors. Make sure to give them extra shells so they can change houses when they want to. Some people don't like them because they may kill snails for their shells. I've never ran into this myself.

well we buy the hermits today :cool:and get some FSW .

mother inlaw is moving and we will try to buy her house. this is so good she has an exstension with a small gap of 4ft x 8ft traped between walls. i am salivating about the idea of moving as this would make the most perfect wet room to a lg fishtank on the inside of the extension.:eek: as it has drainage water supply and is in 24hr shaded ,to become perfect all i have to do is roof it ( clear sheeting ) & light dome.and a door.:blush:

wife has agreed though i dont quite think she comprehends the exstent of the plan.:love!:

so its just down to how fast we can sell ours.

this small hobby can realy get a hold of you cant it!:up:

Yep, you definitely have been bitten! :D:D

bought two turbo and three narsisus snails, which promtly buried themselfs in the sand. probably not to be seen again! kids got well excited naming them ++++.

next week percular clown fish, boy and girl (big and little). cant gues wich the kids will chose though ive seen nice black ones with orange heads, that are said to be tank raised. though in the tank next to them were the comon orange, wichi suspect will be their choice.

welcome to True performers down under bud, no wait, thats me.
Welcome to TReef, good going, you found a safe & secure home in order to call home & learn, the guys here a top notch! take it slow, read, listen & watch & you'll be up able to avoid most of the down sides of the hobby.

both hermits have set up stations! the blue has changed shells so must be happy.

the narsisus come out at lights out. but stopped eating the rotting prawn so ive removed it.

the turbo's dont seem to eat much so ive scraped off the front glass as there is plenty of alge else where.
all my paramiters remain constant though my nitrate is staying at 0.5 safe but not "0".

fish this week end then i will wait for a few weeks and water changes before starting on soft corals. and an alge eating fish maybe a tang?

thats nemo rearing its head again!

Nassarius are my favorite snails.... I know.. useless info. I was just checking up on your tank progress.

Dave

thanx looking good well happy with the tank,but it dose test your patience waiting a week between criters.

surfing for money cowerie, though i do like nassarius,as well. its the cute tube poking up from the sand bed,sniffing like an elephant. that gets to you.

I don't remember how big your tank is. A tang will not be happy in a tank that is < 4' long. I'm not sure which system of measurement you use in UK these days but that is about 1.2 meters. In a smaller tank the fish will be stressed and it will likely be prone to parasites and illness. I like tangs but don't have any in my 54 corner tank for this very reason. I would not worry about nitrate of 0.5, that is fine.

43 gal / 163 lt
3ft x 16"x16"
exsternal hangon protine skimmer
small corner box with small pond pump and wave simulator

tis a small setup but its a start.

what would you sugest to control the alge specialy hair

Tangs are big swimmers and fast growers and I would not add one to a 36" tank. There are many fish that eat algae. Also some people have good luck with hermit crabs eating HA but none of mine seem to. The question always is will the individual fish eat the algae in your tank????

I currently have an Atlantic Pygmy Angel in QT and it is a dedicated herbivore. I am on the downside (hopefully) of a HA outbreak and have pulled some from my DT and given to him but he mostly ignores it. Maybe it would be different if the HA was still attached and he could graze it from the rocks.

I think that good husbandry and growing macro in a refugium are the best ways to control nuisance algae. And not going on vacation and having someone else take care of your tank. :)

bought 2 clown fish one lg one small, the bigest diff i could get in the juvinile tank.
both get on fantasticly and follow each other round all the time.( they did chose the common orange ones but with good strong markings ). the extra to this is that the baby tang ( sorry carmie) that we bought the week before has now come out of hidding and insists on swiming with them. though she dose run back to her hidey hole as soon as the lights go out.

found a rouge small claw that pops out to trim alge round the holes in one of my LR .havn't seen the rest of him
so dont know what ive inherited? be it crab ,shrimp, lobster or what?
must be very hardy to have survived the cycling proces?one day he will show us more! cant wait.

kids are naming things, dorie, nemo and coral +red legs and moon light for the blue hermit. both of the turbos died. but the narsisus are doing well. i wont replace the turbos but i am keeping an open eye out for money coweries as they are my favoret.

Good luck. Pictures please.

realy sorry cant work out how to get pictures :pic:from my pic folder onto this page! atach/ insert image, dosent work.? the real shame is that im sure its me not the system. lack of knowledge is unforgiving!:cry::silly:

blue hermit has changed his shell again, i thought that they only didthis as they grow out of the last? so iether he is a fast grower ,or he cant make up his mind.:confused:

salinity is kreeping up ,but im sure thats from not owning a good fresh water supply? but ill keep looking:wow:

id like to put a pic next to me name but same again? i cant work it out sorry.:blush:

I host my pix at Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com). You just copy the img code and past it into your post an viola! a pictures appears when you click post quick reply. The little picture by your name is called an avatar. To add one go to "User CP" on the left side in the second box just below the TR logo. Once there click "Edit Avatar" in the nav box and then you should be able to upload the picture from your computer or a website. It has to be less than 120x120 pixels.

tank nemo 1.jpg
tank nemo 2.jpg
tank nemo 3.jpg
tank nemo4.jpg
tank nemo5.jpg
tank nemo 7.jpg
thanks carmie you are the best.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/tanknemo2.jpg
lets try this?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/tanknemo7.jpg
got it! horra
bought our first soft coral.

Nice! Glad to be able to help. Is that your little girl?

yes thats my little girl in getting well trained?

lots of visits to the coast, though she wants a crab? not good!
the claw is a crab but it moves round inside the rock only poking out its claw at lights out.
we use the room lights as the sun rise/set .and see alot of critters,dore is strait to bed when the tank lights go out. the clowns take a while to settle in their corner, but we start to see worms in the water collom and outher bugs including the claw! my sun found a slug like criter .
thinking of getting an infared light so we can see more? have you tried this?

bought 3 shrimp ( the transparent ones?) i was hopping that they might breed and at 15p each i thought it was great value! during the day they were great entertainment but by morning there was only the shells left, one was definatly got by the blue hermiy as the shell was right next to him half eaten! ( thats guilty in my book.) dont know who got the other 2 but the big clown ( coral) did try a couple of nips during the day.
life /death can be tough!

Sorry about the shrimps. It is possible that they molted and the others are hiding.

I don't think you would necessarily want infrared because I think that they make a lot of heat. But, I have a red head light (a flashlight (torch) on an elastic band that you use hands free) that I use for spying on my tank at night. You can also buy hand held red flashlights.

I realize that the shrimps may be goners ... but don't forget that they do molt. And I have found that they oftem molt shortly after moving into a new tank. My most recent shrimp purchase molted the evening he was placed into the tank. I thought for sure he had died as there were numerous hermit crabs picking at the shell. Imagine my suprise when he turned up, at feeding, a few days later. Now he eats out of my hand and is even offering the occassional cleaner service to several of the fish in the tank.

That crab in your tank has me worried, though. Keep an eye out for him.

Your local military surplus store or Bass pro shop will have lots of options for your lighting needs. I saved alot of gear from the ARMY that will come in handy now , he he he he

military store is a great idea. we have one in our small town of poole. as its the countrys marine/ comando base.
being that we have the bigest natural harbour in the world ! though i know our freinds from austrailia will argue that point.

starting to find worms and even larger slug types, its amazing how fast they have grown from a small bag of live coral sand? as i made the rest up from a mix of play sand and dry coral sand. good budgeting! and the efect mixed in with an asortment of shells that ive had my kids beach comb. looks realy natural.

that blue hermit has changed again into a larger shell ! so the visual efect has had some benifits on top of saving a lot of money. its got to the point that im going to have to take the kids out again so the little scoundrel can, grow even more and move house/ shell again? the strange thing is the red hermit though more active in his eating .is still using the same shell! go figure?

here is the question!:rotfl:

my soft coral has shrunk as the LFS said it would ,and i have deliberatly placed it in a high flow/ high up (sunny) spot . as he said it would encourage a clumping type growth as aposed to a elongated thin growth! (personall choice, he told me what would happen . without any bias)
but its only been 2 days and i am starting too see some lose/ blown off mini branches in the water collom?

is this normal ? is it part of its a climating? should i worry:roll:

I don't think you should be seeing branches blown off your coral unless something is not right. What are your water parameters? Is the coral right in front of the outlet from the powerhead?

parameters are still constant and reading very good.
no2=0
no3=0
salinity 10275
ph 8
its a good 8" from a wave simulator outlet. so though the flow is good its not constant.
but to be honest im not worrying now as quiet a few have attached them selfs to rock and sand. and continue to mouth the water, they apear to be routing if thats the right word?

thnx for the quick responce ill let you know how their doing when they have had more time!

Attaching is a good thing. :) Keep us posted.

Xenia elongata is the name of the soft coral,

lost our regal tang:(
all paramiters double checked and still good.
so got some fresh SW and gtoing to do a big water change:raining:

every body else in the tank doing fine as far as i can see:o

i will not be replacing him with anouther regal tang. but will get a couple more red leged hermits, as the one ive got dose a good job of triming the hair alge but cant keep up with the production.

the small crab finally showed its self. and apears both coulorfull and harmless.

I am sorry about your fish. :( A water change is always beneficial. Keep an eye on your parameters just to make sure everything stays OK.

lost my clown fish to what appeared to be "clown fish disease"? this was after putting in a copper remover into the fillter so that i could feel safe when adding topup water. it might exsplane why the turbos went within a week of being added! all guess work to be honest.

so im going to work on the janitor crew for a while before trying fish again! give the sand a chance to diversify.

the SC is establishing well, and its babys are fatning up nicley, one has even got a small polip growing at its base.

Did you put copper in the tank?

no ! but the tap water comes through copper piping! and i also dont trust the fish shop not to have toped up from the mains?

if i had some cleaning shrimp, would they have eaten all the paricites/bugs? is there a good chance that the fish would have survived?
would leaving it fallow for a few months help the next time i try to introduce fish?
and are there fish that are not suseptable to the same diseases as the clowns . that might be a good start? like an " enginering gobie" for example! i read that they are very hardy.

Brooklynella, clownfish disease, is a protozoan. Here is some information that may be helpful. Brooklynella (http://home2.pacific.net.ph/%7Esweetyummy42/brookynella.html) BrooklynellosisArt (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm)

nice to know that leaving it fallow for only 4 weeks, should work!

but the tip to reduce the salinity level bellow 1.0225 is an easy to follow instruction.

great artical recomend it to any one.http://home2.pacific.net.ph/%7Esweetyummy42/brookynella.html

nice one carmine

hi this is the ,anenomie , i think?
if not let me know what it is!
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/DSC00539.jpg

this is the much awaited replacement to my much missed clowns.
a golden wrasse.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/DSC00531.jpg
this is the mother pulsing soft coral,
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/DSC00513.jpg
and this is one of her may babies, all doing very well.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/DSC00523.jpg
and this is my red hermit crab.
he hasent changed his shell once,even though he has shed his exo once.
unlike the blue leged that has changed his shell 5 or 6 times.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/DSC00516.jpg
enjoying the shows even if im at work every sunday, as i can catch them later in the week when it suits.
thanx to you all, and to thoes that call in to ask the questions.

hi this is the ,anenomie , i think?
if not let me know what it is!
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/kodocat/DSC00539.jpg
I believe that it is a zoanthid.

Yep - sometimes called a button polyp.

most excelant! we were going to buy a colony soon,
this one mouth has grown from scratch, do we know how long it will take for it to start spreading?
ta.

It depends on the tank and conditions, of course. In my experience, if you want them - they grow slowly. if you don't want them - they grow like weeds!

Some of mine will take pieces of mysis. Next time you have your trukey baster in your hand and are feeding see if your's will eat. If it will feeding will encourage the budding of daughter polyps.

just a little update.
getting to see much more of the coral crab, iether he is getting bigger or braver? not shure wich. but he appears to eat the live rock! this is going to get exspensive if he grows! the first time i saw a pluem of dust in the water, i thought that their was a spawning going on ? but now i realise it was "the claw" eating.;)

had to get up at 5.30am in -1. to catch the tide right at the harbour mouth:snowmaneek:

the golden wrass takes dried food , to whit i am very relived, as he desimated what i thought was an over abundance of live food throughout the tank.

the feather duster is moving around but after several moves appears happy with the spot he is in now.

it still suprises me at the abundance and variety of life, that you get. and not having to spend to much. (so far!):D:santasmile:

still enjoying the live casts. even if i can only listen in retrospect.

Wow, 5:30, that is too early in the cold for me!

the good thing of doing a water change, was the discoveries that followed.

my tank has a corner box that has a small gap running up it? very small inverts run up and down the gap as a safe haven. last night after the water change i spoted a a small (didy) star fish, not sure what type as its only 1.5mm from center to tip of one leg!

my lovely claw is no longer singular as today i noticed that , their were three claws ? the extra one coming from a compleatly differant hole! after a long watch one crab moved off to anouther rock while the shy single claw continued to feed. they were both grabing at food paticals that the wrasse missed.

Very cool! I have some small starfish but they are 20-80mm. I always see them grazing on film algae.

hi their is a view that the anenomie help clowns by killing off
paracites/bugs , ive only read this once , and not here? and im wondering is this
just a very plausable wives tale or is their truth in it?

iam happy to have just an anenomie and a pair of clown fish to add to what is in the tank. as i hope this will be enough to hold the intrest of my kids.

my tank has so far.............

1 golden wrass
1 cleaning shrimp
2 black coral rubble crabs
1 blue leged hermit
1 red leg hermit
1 medium mushroom sft coral
1 medium ( spreding) sft pulsing coral
2 mini turbo snails
1 micro brittle star
2 mini clams

and a partridge in a pear tree!

I have not heard that about an anemone. I believe that the anemone offers the clown protection from predators. What lighting setup do you have on your tank? Anemones that clowns will host in need a strong light source.

30w t8 marine glow.
3ft long x2.
with reflectors.
depth to sand from lights with an air gap of 1.5 inch. is 14" and a sand bed of 3" for the critter to get its foot in.

so far very disapointed with the lfs as they are iether very limp or no brown (this is the internal alge coulor ?).
and should you always ask for the rock they are atached to? as i dont want to get a healthy specimine and then get it hurt while being removed from the shop!

also my son likes the bright florecant green/yelow bubble tip. but the ones he likes have no brown in them see above question.

carpets change coulor depending on the depth and light! what is the coulor of the deaper ones ? as even though i would love a blue i doubt if my lighting is good enough.

i'll invest in some blue spounge at some point, to give me the variety in coulor in the tank.

what about the bright white with pink tips ( anemone) their tip's allways seam bulbous and ridged. do you think they would work with my lighting?

thanks carmie.

i think that you need to upgrade your lighting before attempting ANY anemone. the 30w lights are no where near intense enough to keep one alive (over a period of time), much less have it thrive in captivity. i would recommend at LEAST t5 lighting to successfully keep an anemone.

i have never heard of anemones cleaning parasites either. the anemone protects the fish and the fish feeds the anemone. it is a win win relationship between them.

Bobby's quite right, you will need more intense lights for an anemone. The ones that may need the (relatively) lowest amount of light are bubble tips. I have a rose BTA. When I got it 18 months ago it was a little guy. (Click on the pix under my signature.) Here it is today. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/CarmieJo/DSC_8250.jpg
It is 10" (25cm) in diameter!

Anemones (http://fins.actwin.com/species/anemone.html)

bobby ,
thanks for your imput, just found this artical on the web. i like it because it sugests that their is a range of likes and dislikes that anemonies have.

as i have three very small self seaded anemonies, i think i will try the "saddle back" as his matches my lighting purfectly. ill keep you posted on my sucsess.

one day i might adventure into strong lighting and hard corals. but for the moment i will stay with my thriving soft corals. and the diversity i have. you never know the lady of the house might let me have a second tank in a year or two?
wich would definately be a bigger and brighter one.

happy new year to you all.

Good article Peter. I never kept the saddle-back carpet but I would would still be cautious about keeping one under NO fluorescents.

Happy New Year to you too.

Black coral rubble crab (Paraliomera dispar, Xanthidae)

good photo on yahoo, been unable to photo mine and un willing to upset the tank by trying to capture! though to be honest the speed he hids when somebody comes in the room. theirs no chance of geting him any way.

but as he only grazes on alge and left over food, i wont worry.:D

left my red light on all night, came down at 6am in the dark:roll: to find a real strange creature swimming around.this was following the show last week, talking about sturring the sand bed.
it was fast furious and looked like a cross between a fish and a worm?:wow:
3" pink and white ( under red light ) no eyes with a flat eel like tail. i do have one of those worms in the sand that all you see is a bundel of short tenticals sticking out of the sand? it might have been him.

dose any body know of a good site for pictorial recognition:shout: please let me know.

Try this Melev's Reef - Visual Identification (http://www.melevsreef.com/id/index.html) for pictorial ID's.

long over due update on my diary. though fun to see how small the pulsing coral was when first bought?

lost my golden wrass:cry:

though jhave bought a potential pair of clowns, 2mnts ago . both doing well and paired up ,the small one had his dorsal compleatly bitten off. but has fully grown back now . and the two of them are inseprable now.:) they use the pulsing coral as if it were an anemonie. and though i dont think he is ready she is cleaning the face of one rock. to the point that i have had to stop moving clumps of alge aroung to feed the crabs as she keeps pulling at it and cloging up the filters.

Sorry about your wrasse.

Clowns have been known to host many things. :) My single maroon clown is always cleaning and fanning the sand so it doesn't surprise me that you are seeing this behavior. Are you going to eventually try to raise the fry? If so, you may want to put a tile in front of the rock she is cleaning to make it easy to remove the eggs.