Shananagans 65 Gallon Adventure

[Shananagans]

Well, here I go. So I am starting up a 65G reef tank. I currently have the tank filled with salt water made from my newly purchased ro unit. I also (about 5 min ago) added a 20 pounds of live sand to be followed by another 80-100 pounds. The salinity in the tank is currently alittle high, but will be corrected. And around thursday I will be adding roughly 50 pounds or less of super fiji rock. I have a 20 gallon wet/dry that is about 3/4's full. I will also pick up my protien skimmer on weds. In about a month I will be picking up my light (roughly when the tank is done cycleing.)

Does anyone have any objection with useing limestone as base rock?

Here is a rough idea of what I will be putting in the tank.

65 Gallon Tank (begining plans)

Crabs

Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab (2)

Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crab (4)

Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crab (4)

Electric Blue Hermit Crab (2)

Red Boxing Crab (2)

Porcelain Crabs (2)



Snails

Cerith Snail (8)

Nerite Snail (6)

Astraea Snail (6)



Stars

Marble Sea Star or Blue Star Fish (1)



Anenome

Rose Anemone (1)

Sebae Anemone (1) or Plate Coral (white with purple tips)(1)





Corals

Frogspawn Coral Green (1)

Blue Xenia (1) or Silver Branch Pumping Xenia (1)

Clove Polyp (1)

Colony Polyps Super Color (1)

Elegance Coral: Colored Tip (1)

Red Brain Coral Ultra (1)

Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral (1)



Shrimp

Red Banded Pistol Shrimp (1)

Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (2)



Fish

Yellow Tang (1)

Six Line Wrasse (1)

Banner Cardinal (3)

Ocellaris Clownfish (2)

Orange Stripe Prawn Goby (1)

Midas Blenny (1)

Bluestripe Neon Goby (1)

Spoted Mandarin (1) (after established) maybe



Options

Carpet Anenmone Blue or Green (more experience)

Short Tentacle Plate Coral (pink)

Blue Spruce Caulastrea

Bubble Coral, Green



Any advise or suggestions, I'm all ears.

P.S. If someone could tell me how to upload a pic from my pc, I could show you some pics.http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07003.jpg

[keyozoxmfc]

i have a question..i dont know if im wrong or not. but wont the sixline wrasse eat all of the mandarins food? because i would really like to get both as well.. of course the mandarin in an established tank. and i have heard of agressive sixlines as well.

and i found a LFS that has the goby shrimp pair, so i will check that out too. and i think maybe your tank may be too small for a tang.

[Phurst]

I agree about the tang, you probably also want to stear clear of the blue Linckia starfish, as they have a very poor survival rate.

What are your plans as far as lighting?

[Shananagans]

I did not know they would eat the same food, well if thats the case I will only get the wrasse. I thought Spoted Mandarins eat copepods?

I really think I'm going to get a tang. Realisticly in my tank I think I would be better off with a yellow tang, but have dreams of a purple. But I want to get the tang very small as that will increase my chances with him, he will also probably be my last (fish) addition to the tank, so I will not get it for quite some time.

I think I'm gona go with the marble star, I just threw the blue one up there as an option.

I'm not sure what kind of lighting. Theowner of my LFS has been helping me with purchasing my equiptment, he even made a free house visit to check out my tank,cool guy. Anyway he should me 2 lights both of which im not to suer about 1 was $225 or so the other around $450 or so. He said the higher of the 2 would allow me to do hard corals. I dont know if I really want to do hards but regardless I think I will go with that option, just incase. I will let you know when I find out which light it is.

[mikellini]

Wrasse, dragonettes, and gobies all eat copepods. So there is a chance that the wrasse may eat the mandarin out of its only food supply, and then eat prepared food

[Shananagans]

If I just go with the 6line wrasse, the neon blue goby, and shrimp goby I shold be fine, correct. They will all eat prepared food? After the tank is cycles, should I also buy some copepods for the tank?

[keyozoxmfc]

just saying, when i was talking about getting a tang for my 50 gallon, people said that it was too small and at least a 75. i really wanted one too, but i got over it because if it lives to be that big, i wouldnt want to give it away after raising it to be so big. i am gonna get a foxface now since it would be better for my tank. but i am no expert

[Shananagans]

Ya, I would't want to give it away either, I'm just going to be very careful with how I aquascape and try to maximize my swiming room. Most of the the other fish in the tank will also not really get over 3 or 4 inches, If I play my cards right, I think I'll be ok. Thank you fo the warning.

Does anyone have any other comments other then the tang? Not that I am upset, I appreciate the advise and do consider it, but I know it is matter that will forever be arrgued. But does anyone have any other suggestions for the fish, or corals, and anemones. I only know about corals and anemomes from what i've read. So if anyone has any likes or dislikes from the ones i've listed above, please let me know.

[CarmieJo]

My corner tank won't make a suitable home for a tang. But I seem to remember that back when I kept FO the rule of thumb was that you needed at least a 48" long tank for a yellow. Sixlines eat prepared food but they like to snack on tasty pods. :)

[Shananagans]

Should I purchase copepods when my tank is finished cycleing to ge the populations going?

[CarmieJo]

You can post a picture to the Photo Gallery (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/gallery/index.php) by clicking on the upload button, the second from the right, and browsing to in on your computer. Or you can use a service like Photobucket.com and upload them to there using much the same technique.

[mikellini]

personally, i think copepods are a bit pricey. but having said that, they are a natural part of the diet of the fish you want to get, so it's a good idea to get a population going. if you have enough LR, they will reproduce at a rate that will keep up with their predation. so, although the initial investment may seem a little high, buying a few bottles may be the best way to go. I have bought from Ocean Pods, and the service was good.

[Seahorsedreams]

Set up a fuge and you will not have to add pricey pods all the time.

[keyozoxmfc]

so how about setting up a fuge and putting about 5-10 lbs of LR.. and dump like 3 bottles of pods in there

[Shananagans]

I don't think a fuge is an options for me, 1 because I dont fully understand it yet, and 2, I don't have the room for it. So dumping some copepods in there sounds alittle better. How much is expensive?

Also I just added another 80lbs of LS. I now have about 3 or 3 and 1/2 inches of sand. Do I need exactly 4?

I also picked up a coralife 125g skimmer, I know its over kill but for $110 what the heck. The only issue now is me fitting both my return pump, skimmer pump and heater in the wet/dry. I turned it on for a bit just to see it in action. How do I get rid of the bubble being pumped into my tank?


I also think the light I might be getting is the 36" Aqualight Pro 150W HQI, but that may not be the light my friend at my lfs showed me. But something close to that.

Any other fish, coral, or anemone suggestions anyone?

[keyozoxmfc]

i have the CSS125 on my 50 gallon. and yes the micro bubbles are a pain. i use a like large plastic box thing that is lifted at one end at about a 30 degree angle ish, and the skimmer outlet points into the box and the box is tilted away from the return so the bubbles flow away. yeah that didnt really make sense, but i would say not to use the bubble defuser because it gets really gross and smelly.

and i was told that one 150 watt wouldnt be strong enough for my tank and i have a 36in long 20 inch tall 50 gallon, soo

[Shananagans]

I love how everyone says something diffrent about everything. My LFS said it would be great and I could put any coral or anemone in the tank with that light. So you think that light will not be good for the tank? It is 24in deep. What light did you go with then.

"Also I just added another 80lbs of LS. I now have about 3 or 3 and 1/2 inches of sand. Do I need exactly 4?"

The salinity is still alittle high, and I know I should correct that before putting in the LR. Should I take some of the water from my tank and put it in my 10g tank ( to be the quarantine tank) and then take some ro water and add it to both to get the correct salinity. Sound like a plan?

[mikellini]

you don't need a refugium for the sole purpose of cultivating 'pods. the size of your tank should be great enough to hold enough LR to ensure safe spots for pods to reproduce, just make sure you put enough LR in there. As for the light, a 150w MH can grow any coral, regardless of tank size. It all comes down to how far away the coral is from the light. You also need to consider flow and feeding when caring for coral, and so light may not be the only factor. If you're worried about the lighting, get two. Usually, one MH can cover approximately 2'x1' of the tank's area, but again, it all depends on the placement of your coral in relation to the light.

Your sand will compact over time, so you may want to put more in. Personally, I believe LR is a more effective method of filtration, so I'd save room for the rock, and just leave the sand bed as is.

As far as changing the salinity, sounds like a plan... just go slow, take a little at a time

[Shananagans]

Will that be enough for fish to borrow in. I might get a shrimp goby and pistol shrimp.

[keyozoxmfc]

ohh yeah okay my mistake, mikellini is right about the lights. but i really doubt in a 24 in tall tank, you could be very much corals at the bottom, an sps i would think would need to be at the top.

i would love the goby pistol shrimp pair as well, but my sand bed is only about 1 inch or 2 inch max. so if anyone knows how deep of a sandbed they would need thatd be great. but also i read on drsfostersmith that they can be dangerous to other shrimp, so id be scared for my peppermint shrimp. but i know drsfands have been wrong sometimes.

[CarmieJo]

I started out with about 4" of LS but in a year it has compacted to <3.5" and I am adding 50# more. (We are painting the interior of our house and have to move the tank away form the walls. I have decided to add the sand when I have everything out of the tank to move it.) So if your goal is a DSB, I'd go with more rather than less. LR is important but your tank is tall, as is mine, so a few inches of sand won't affect how much LR you can add.

[Phurst]

I agree that 1x150 MH is a bit on the weak side. There are pleny of things you can keep up top, but further down.....

My thank is 24" deep too (though it's a 120) and I have 2x150 MH and 2x96 PC and I could really use more light. I'm giving serious thought to replacing the 150s with 250s, and even then, lighting will not be real strong towards the bottom. 24" is a lot of water for the light to penetrate, IMO.

[keyozoxmfc]

if you do a retro fit and use a home made canopy it will eeven be cheaper for you. is the 65 4 feet long?

[Shananagans]

No, I believe it is 36" by 24" by 18". Does anyone have any suggestions for lighting for my tank?

[mikellini]

you could keep pretty much anything with two 250 mh, and maybe some actinic supplement. The main difference between the 150 and 250 is the depth of penetration, so take your pick. Current USA has a great lineup of MH fixtures, with or without supplementation, so check out their stuff. As for the goby/pistol shrimp, I've read that they can burrow through 6" of sand right down to the glass... but does this affect their health/viability? I don't think I've ever seen a report of a problem related to this, other than the fact that you can see the glass. I highly doubt it would be detrimental to the fish or shrimp, and you could always just add a little more sand around the area they decide to host on later...

[Shananagans]

how much would something like that cost? the light.

will the shrimp or goby cause problems with other shrimp?

[keyozoxmfc]

current fixtures like that with 2 250s will be pretty expensive. at leeeassssttt 700 i would think. it would probably be cheapest to have a retrofit kit like rob has

[Shananagans]

Can anyone explain a retro fit is? Rob....

[Phurst]

A retrofit is just the balast, bulb socket and reflector sold as a kit to be retrofit into an existing hood.

[keyozoxmfc]

yeah its basically a light fixture without the casing.

[Shananagans]

Im still not sure I'm understanding it. And I do not have a light as is, so either way I would need to purchase one in some form.

[keyozoxmfc]

light fixture (http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=aqualight_2x65_30&Category_Code=d2&Product_Count=11)

retrofit kit (http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=esu_96w_quad_retrofit&Category_Code=d3&Product_Count=2)

[Phurst]

Nice illustration.

A fixture, you can buy, place on your tank, plug it in and go.

A retrofit, is just the socket, balast and reflector. It will need to be put in an existing fixture or hood and (in some cases) wired up.

[Shananagans]

I was told a 150 would be enough for my tank and that 250 would be over kill on the light.

I added another 20lbs of sand bringing my total to 120lbs and is now 4 inches.

I also hooked up the skimmer. I'm not exactly sure how high I should set it. the top is to dirty inside, but only a coating, not full, for me to tell if I should turn it up or down. And every once and awhile when I look at it it will be full of water, any suggestions. It is hard for me to take it in and out too, there is not even a mm between the top of the skimmer and the bottom of the tank. And I finally got both pumps to a "minimal noise" so I want to move things as little as possible.

[Shananagans]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07044.jpg




http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/fliptank.jpg

[keyozoxmfc]

well just saying that many people here told me that a 150 watt wouldnt be enough for my 20 inch high tank, but you can always try? and you have a coralife superskimmer right?..haha okay i just check yeah you do. does the sump water level go up and down a lot?, but then again, the water level would have to go up really high to overflow a lot, and usually it will go down from evaporation. ill take a picture of my skimmer and show where i have my water level. the water level is only supposed to be like 4 inches or so above the pump

[keyozoxmfc]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0484.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0486.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0488.jpg

so thats where my water level in the skimmer is. its about at that dark gunk line in the skimmer neck. i recommend keeping it around there, because i found everywhere else isnt that great. theres my skimmate that i get, but its pretty watery since i dont have too much of a bio load ithink, or im just skimming wet?

got anypictures of your tank to show us?

[Shananagans]

Yea, I don't have any rock or fish in my tank, only 120lbs of LS,so my water is still clear in it. Should I have the foamy bubble coming up over inside tube into the cup or just making it halfway up the tube and as it get dirtier it will push it up more? How often do you empty the cup? I also have the little tube at the bottom of the cup going into a gallon container.

Hopefully I will be getting around 50lbs of super fiji LR tomorrow morning ($4.99 a lb). I will then see how much more room I have and maybe order more frim him.

I tried to post pics but it did not work. I put them in the photo gallery under my name and then use the URL to put them on this post, but it did not work, any help with that would be helpful.

[keyozoxmfc]

uhh well you cant just post the picture. or i dont know how it works here, but i use photobucket and they have a specific thing for you that shows you links for how to post in forums,webpages, etc. i am sure its like that here.

as for the skimmer, i dont empty it out much, and i dont use the drain either since mine is up high as hang on, the tube was too short, and i also like to know what kinda of skimmate i get.

dont have the water level too high, like i would say not even into the collection cup, more like in the neck of the collection cup, because i noticed it doesnt seem to produce foam too well that way, but i guess i dont have a a larbge bio load so i dont really know. i believe in the manual it tells you what to do. i would try the dry skimmate instructions they give in the manual, the wet one i never got to work and it would just give me water. like i said earlier, my water level is in the neck. you can look in the picture that iposted. its about at the spot where all that grime is, maybe a little higher.

good lluck

[Shananagans]

I just added about 35lbs of LR into my tank.

I just placed it into the tank, was I supposed to do anything special with it?

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07054.jpg

[keyozoxmfc]

so hows your skimmer?

[Shananagans]

Seems to be doing good, I lowered the water leverl to where you said.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07056.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07055.jpg

[keyozoxmfc]

looks better

[CarmieJo]

It looks like your tank is really shaping up. Was your LR cured or uncured?

[Shananagans]

I'm not to sure, I can try to find out tho. My friend at the LFS told me I could just go home and drop the rock in the tank, and (in a few days) if I need to take a toothbrush and clean the rock later if it starts growin to much crap.

[CarmieJo]

That sounds like it may be uncured. This should help to start the cycle on your tank. :) Are you monitoring it yet?

[keyozoxmfc]

ohh haha i didnt even look at your tank, looks good. you are going to add more rock right?sorry if i missed that in your posts

[V]

Keys, its expensive buying up rockwork all @ once, besides that time brings about a great tank, & rock shopping is no different than any other shopping, hand pick your pieces brother, If or when you do load up with more, take a photo with you so you can model in your head what the new pieces could look like with rockwork arrangments.

Looks good irishman, Is this the first tank?
If it is, id suggest you wip out the test kit so you can see your visual peaks in the testing range.

also try investing in a decent kill switch, & move the power cables to higher ground if you havn't already, makes for a wise investment in regards to your health & the health of your future animals.

Hows the skimmer going now?
I always aim for the water level (or rather the tip of the bubble mass) right @ the base of the central flute in venturi style skimmers, its called bottle necking for a reason & leaving it to low or too high can be ineffective.

looks good, will definatly check in on your thread & see your creation take shape

[Shananagans]

No I have not started monitoring it yet.

Yes I will be getting more rock.

Yes this is my first salt tank.

I will move the power cords, that was actually just for temp usage, I will be getting a outlet with 2 timers on it for the lights.

The skimmer seems to be be working but not really doing to much, But I assumeing because it has not bio load.

And veriann, are you assuming I am irish or is that just a common name you give to all? For infact I am Irish, but mostly German then Italian then Irish.

[iglowce]

is it still recycling? let us see some new pix after you add coral/fish =]

[Shananagans]

Yes the tank has only been cycleing for less than a week. And I would def put pictures up when I add new additions.

I actually just got recieved a rock that I ordered from Marc and put it in the tank. I am very pleased with it.


Also I just picked up a 33G tank 48" -12" - 13" any inexpensive ideas what I could do with it? I was thinking of useing it as my quarentine tank, but always keeping a handful of chromis in there or something. Would there be any issues with that? Any ideas or suggestion let me know.

[keyozoxmfc]

yeah true, live rock is VERY expensive. i bought about half then a week later just bought the rest.

about the skimmer, i would think that adding live rock would get you some action on the skimmer..but maybe not.

and a 33 long for a QT sounds great, but a lot to maintain. mine is only 10 gallons. but i dont plan on getting a tang. i would think something as long as your 33 would be needed for a QT for a tang. or it could always be a fuge or sump of somesort

is it acrylic or glass?

[Small Fry]

sorry i haven't read your earlier posts (i will after i post this, how much sense does tat make :p )

But a 33 long would be great for a QT tank. I would say even for a tang, provided it is not in there for long (the whole point of a QT tank)

if you dont have one already (even if you do) my vote goes with a fuge all the way, i have 2 on my 120 (almost done :D) and together they bump the whole system up to 240.

QT tanks do not generally need to b that big. they are only used to keep fish for maybe a week to ensure nothing bad is introduced to your system.

Another idea.
This may or may not work. But if u have a bigger sump then ur golden. Have cut offs on all the plumbing coming to and from this sump device to/from the tank.

And also have stuff lying around. This way, in the case of an emergency, u can seperate the two systems, and run the sump/fuge as a Temp QT to protect your display. I dunno, it's just a thought.

I have three tanks lying around and have considereddoing that lol.

Btw, i would imagine the skimmer would pull alot of stuff out (u put in LR right??)

The die-off from the rock would probably make up the bulk of the skimmate, besides, what would running a skimmer on your tank ever hurt?????

[keyozoxmfc]

haha yeah i think itd be SIC WIT IT!! lol cool if you made that 33 an above tank fuge and gravity feed it back to your tank. i think it would make an amazing sump, heaven for a mandarin

[Shananagans]

The skimmer is pulling out alittle but not a huge amount. Maybe I will try turning it up alittle.

I don't thnk I will use it as a fuge as I dont have the room for it around my tank. I have a 10g and the 33g I could use as a quarentine. As i was saying b4 if I use the 33 as a QT tank could I permanitly keep some chromis or something in there or would tha tbe a bad idea? Cus if I cant permanity keep some type of fish in there, a 33 is alot of work just for a QT.

Are there any forms of anemones or corals that would be ok, if I simply left the tank by a window? Meaning if I put the 33 by a window would there be enough light for any form of a reef tank. I dont want to have to buy a another whole light just for that.

[keyozoxmfc]

well i heard on a podcast that keeping fish in the tank will make you want to turn it into a fish tank and if you need to qt something, the meds wouldnt work too well with the LR or in a perminant tank.

i read somwhere something about having a natural sun light tank, but does your area get enough light for that? but having it in sunlight sounds risky with the algae..

is there a way you could put the 33 above you current tank..like on a self or somethign above and do the fuge?

and is it acrylic or glass?

[Shananagans]

No, there is no way I could put it above the tank.

Sorry, the tank is glass.

[Shananagans]

So I just picked up 12lbs more of LR and i have Marc's 8lb rock. Brining my rock total to 55lbs.

I was wondering... If i were to put LR in my wet/dry (turning it into more of a sump) by removeing the bio balls in the 2nd chamber and adding rock to the second and the first chamber is that acceptable? Will the LR need light or be fine wihtout it. I would like to add more LR but dont want anymore in the tank, it will take up to much space.

Now I also come to my cycle wating, the only other major purchase I will need to make is the light, other then that I'm just waiting for the tank to cycle, which is good because I am moveing my 37g cichlid tank into a 55 and up a flight of stairs.
But during the cycle is there anything I should be looking for? Should I start testing the water? And would it be a good idea for me to drop a raw shrimp or 2 into the tank for a couple days?

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07059.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07060.jpg
that is marcs rock (the whiter one)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07061.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07062.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07064.jpg

[keyozoxmfc]

very nice caves! make sure you have an anti siphon hole on that return! its really low. and i believe that putting LR in the wet dry works

[Phurst]

Yes, you should begin testing your water now so you can monitor the progress of your cycle. I have heard that if ammonia gets to about 1.0, you should do a water change to keep it below 1.0. Mine never got that high, so I have no practical experience there.

You can put LR in your sump. it will still work as biological filtration, just dont put rubble where the bio balls would go. If you did that, it would be the same as having bio balls in there. I have about 20 pounds of LR in my sump, it's just sitting there in the same chamber as my skimmer. There are lots of sponges on it.

[Shananagans]

I was going to put some LR in the first chamber, the only thing in there is the heater. The second chamber has the bio balls, if I remove the bio balls and put LR in the second chamber but completly under water would that be ok?

I have turned off the pump and it has not really siphoned back into the wet/dry.

Also how much do you think the rocks will move. I shoock them alittle and they seem pretty sturdy, should I glue them?

[Phurst]

If they remain under water, they should be OK.

A lot of people do glue or epoxy some or all of their rocks in place, but i opted not to because i like fiddling with things :-) it's all personal preference....

[Shananagans]

The tank(with water in it) has been running for about 2weeks or so, there has only been LR in the tank for a week. Would it be ok for me to just remove and replace all the bio balls with LR, or should I do it slowly?

[Reefbaby]

Since your setup is still so early, I would just remove all the bioballs at once. You should still be going through your cycle and have several weeks to go, so you may as well just get it over with. Were you wanting to fill up that area with live rock? How much space do you have?

Just a suggestion re: your aquascaping. You set-up looks good, I would just try to move the rocks away from the back wall so that they're not touching. You'll be much happier if you can clean all areas of glass and also the rocks will start to scratch along the glass after time.

[Shananagans]

I will move the rock away from the glass.

I think I could fit around 15-20lbs of LR in the sump.

Should I drop a raw shrimp into the tank?

[keyozoxmfc]

uhh i am not sure about the raw shrimp. i am PRETTY sure that a cycle will start with just LR, but the shrimp may not be a bad idea? wait for someone who has experience to answer that.

as for the siphon...when you turn off the pump, it doesnt siphon at all? or just very little? because judging on the location of your return locline, it looks like about 1/4 of your DT would drain in to the sump, and if you fill up your sump, it might overflow.

you could always...get a different sump and make it a fuge or something, or make the wetdry intoa fuge or do what you are planning to do

[Seahorsedreams]

Don't throw in a whole shrimp if you are going that route. You don't want your tank going totally toxic.

[Reefbaby]

In case you haven't already listened to it, Rob's done an excellent podcast (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/podcast-episodes/938-cycling-podcast-episode-50-a.html) on cycling a new tank...take a listen. He has some great tips!

[Shananagans]

I have turned the pump of on several occasions and checked and the water trickels down into my sump for alittle, ten stops. But I will take another look and make sure, better safe then srry.

Should I throw a piece of shrimp in there, not a whole one?

[CarmieJo]

Have you tested for NH4? If you have and it has been present I don't think that there is much need to put a raw shrimp in the tank.

I agree that you should pull the bioballs now. My sump is a wet/dry and I have caulerpa in the bioball chamber and LR rubble in the area under that. I don't think it would make any difference which chamber you put the LR in as long as (like you said) it stays covered with water. I think it would only work like bioballs if it was partially exposed.

The top edge of my Loc-Line return is right at the surface of my DT (good air exchange) and I only drain about 2 inches of water into my sump when the pump is off.

[keyozoxmfc]

yeah i think like if its not too hard though, a anti siphon hole sounds like something easy to do and just an extra insurance anyways. i see it a bunch of times how rooms flood from that. one of my moms friends with a reef has a wetdry, and she didnt have an anti siphon hole, and sure enough, she flooded the floor. and eversince then, i could never talk my mom into letting me get a sump, and she always sayss that ..OHHH well remmber she flooded the house. but now she has an anti siphon hole.

[Shananagans]

So I just tested my water and well I'm not sure what to look for or if I read the colors right. Well here it is...

PH 7.8-8.2 (can't really tell either way i think i should raise it alittle)
NH4 .25-.50 (again can't really tell)
NO2 2.0
NO3 10

I also removed the bio balls, which was a pain.

[Shananagans]

Did another test (and I really think I suck at reading the charts, so I had my romate help me) and I'm kinda confused by my results. I dont know if th amonia is on the way up or down,(i think up) The ph needs to go up( I think, again truoble reading) And the nitrate is really high, but I believe accurate.

Ph 7.8 (I think)
NH4 .25 (ish)
NO2 2.0
NO3 30

[CarmieJo]

It is good to get used to reading the colors but don't worry about the pH until your cycle is complete.

Are you reading your tests against a white background and in cool white light? I always put my test tube right against the card and look at the color bands through the water in the tube. To me it seems like the correct color disappears when you do this.

My hubby is partially color blind and could never read these tests. To him colors all look the same.

[Reefbaby]

your nitrates will rise and peak towards the end of the cycle....it looks like you're on your way.

check out Amphibious' thread (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/member-tank-projects/412-amphibious-135-gal-reef-2.html) - he's nicely shown how the levels change according to the cycling of the tank....plus his thread is loaded with awesome info!

[Shananagans]

Ph 7.8
Nh4 .25
No2 1.5
No3 20

[CarmieJo]

Your cycle is moving right along!

[Shananagans]

Should I be doing any water changes? Or still waiting on that? I have added some fresh RO water becasue it has gotten altittle low a few times, but no salt water.

[CarmieJo]

I recommend topping off with RO but not doing a water change until your NO2 falls to zero.

[Shananagans]

PH: 7.8
NH4: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 20

Almost there... Should I now do water changes? I was also probly gona use some carbon bags in the sump. I should also be coming across my light pretty soon.

[CarmieJo]

You could go ahead and do a water change now. I run Chemi-pure in my sump all of the time.

[Shananagans]

So yesterday I did my first water change. I changed about 5g. My tank is 65g and with my sump another 10-15g, so i did roughly a 6&#37; change. I also added something to raise the ph, and I added a bag of carbon to the sump. (I will probly add another bag as reccomended by the directions. I also ordered my light, which should be in Fri. My LFS also ordered me blue leg hermits and astrea snails, which I may be able to pick up and put in the tank today. I think I will put maybe 6snails and 10hermits in. Then I will add other hermits and snails later.

As of this morning my readings are as follows:

75 degrees F (will raise up when I add the light.)
PH 8.2
NH4 0
N02 0
NO3 20

Is water changes the only thing that will bring down the nitrate? And how often should I be doing it to bring it down?

Also I have heard lots of mixed stories with Banggai Cardinalfish. I was thinking of putting 3 in my tank. And I was told that is fine, odd #'s are better with them (3,5,7 and so on) And then I have heard others say either you keep 1 or a maited pair. Does anyone actually know? Doesanyone also know how much they will add to the bio load, they are a small fish, so I would not think they would much, but you never know.

[Reefbaby]

no, water changes aren't the only thing that will bring down the nitrates (although that is one way to help acutely!). Keeping a low bio-load, fostering the production of good bacteria (Nitrobacter/Nitrosoma spp.) through the use of live rock and deep sand bed, and having a good clean-up crew. Your levels are looking good and they've reduced as they should. You probably just need a little more time for your NO3s to completely go down. Go really slow with adding fish. You've got time. Add one......wait awhile, see how things adapt and adjust and then add another one. If you're interested in adding a fish, such as cardinal fish/anthia/chromis that prefer to be in a school, then add the school and wait awhile for things to adjust before adding something new to the system as well.
Many people make the mistake of just filling up their tank with all their dream fish and them a few months later they're reaping the price of having put their system on too much of a bio-load.

Re: Bengai Cardinalfish - make sure you're getting captive bred. They're much more hardy.

Here's an interesting article on Bengai Cardinals and breeding. (http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/f_marini_020799.html)

[V]

exciting times bud, whats your feeling on your progress, both in the physical & in the knowledge department?

[Reefbaby]

exciting times bud, whats your feeling on your progress, both in the physical & in the knowledge department?

????Who and what are you referring to my dear friend?:unsure:

[Shananagans]

That is sort of a strange question please elaberate.

So, last night (around 8) I added 5 Astraea snails, 3 blue leg hermits and 2 scarlet hermits, just to get a feel of exactly what I'm doing and acclimateing etc. I came home around 12 and they seemed fine. But this morning The snails did not seem so hot. 2 were on thier shell on the sand, I fixed them and they seemed to barley even move. I found a third motionless but attaced to a rock. (when snails die do they still stay attached or let go?) The hermits on the other hand(I only saw 2) seemed just fine. Any ideas? Is this normal behaviour for a snail?

I should be recieve more of a cleaning crew, my light, and maybe 2 clowns and a neon blue goby on fri. Depending on how everything is going until then I may not pick up the fish right away, just to play it safe.

Reefbaby that was a good article, although I did not see any answer to my question. (1,2,or 3)

I just did a water change the tuesday, would it be to early for another one?

[Reefbaby]

If the snails are still attached to the rock, then they're alive. if it's at all difficult to pull at them, then they're doing good. Snails are kinda slow...so, it's not like they're moving around all over the place (of course dependent on what species). Some species have more of a difficult up-righting themselves, especially when falling on sand and don't have anything to hold on to.

From what I've read, if your choice of Cardinals is 1,2 or 3, I would go with 3.

You can do water changes as often as needed. If you feel that your water quality dictates that you need another one, then go for it. plus, you only did a 6&#37; water change last time anyway.

For the future, I would suggest to rather do a 10% change on a weekly basis....

[Shananagans]

I agree about the 10&#37; its just that I had a 5g bucket full of ro water so thats all I had ready to go at the time. Plus I forgot its not just a 65g tank, I also have the sump with at nother 12ish in it.

So in you belief Banggai Cardinalfish are better in groups of 3? They will not fight etc? I was told pajamas are better in 3s , but Banggai Cardinalfish are diffrent.

[V]

????Who and what are you referring to my dear friend?:unsure:

.
The irishman of course RB. I wanted to know how he's coasting with the hobby. Targets, plans & outcomes. You know, simple progress...... both with your physical equiptment , and knowledge, do you have a quest to expand your knowledge in future specifc topics. yeah you know, stuff like that, simple chit chat to make it seem like im interested..lol

[Shananagans]

So I went home last night and this morningand checked the tank, both snails and hermits seem to be doing great. But this one snail could just not right itself, I put him upright at least 10 times before he was on the move.

I was also in my lfs, and watching a tank looking for hermits when I saw a amphipod run across the sand, very exciting to actually see it, at least for me.

I prepared some RO water last night, so I will probly be doing a water change today.

As for you veriann, again with the irishman! (jk) I don't mind being called it as if you were to look at me it is the first nationality you would associate me with. Although I will immediatly correct you and say my heart lies to the german in me. So I give you permission to continue with the name. Anywho...

I feel fairly comfortable with it. I have always loved animals, and science so it gives me alittle more patience then others may not have. I have had cichlids for awhile so I;m not new to fish altho there are great leaps and bounds between brakish and salt. My goal is to get this up and running and to look amazing. And in a few yrs (in which I should be married, if plans go correctly) I will hopefully get my hands on a 220g or so, probly not reef tho just fowlr. I still have my cichlids in a 55g. My sw set up and equiptment seems to be fairly simple, simple is good, so I feel I have a good grasp on it for now. And of course I will expand my knowledge and continue in my path. The only form of reading I do is subtitles on movies and articles. I do not read books for stories (that is what movies are for) I read for knowledge and to furthur my understanding. Topics, well I like tangs alot, maybe someday have seahorses. I would also like to furthur understand how and why sw tanks function the way they do. I was almost considered chem eng as a major (then I stopped going all together) so I enjoy that asspect of it as well. I can also guarentee when I see new creepy crawly critters in my tank you see me posting pics trying to identify ther little buggers as I will have no idea what they are. Is that enough chit chat?


Can't wait to see what critters my lfs has for me today!

[CarmieJo]

Astraea snails can't right themselves. When I set mine up I always put them in the rocks.

[Shananagans]

I just picked up my light last night, and hooked it up to the timer. WOW! It looks amazing. I will def get some pics up for everyone, I just did not have the time. My critters did not come in tho, hopefully on weds.

I have the light timer set up as the following.

Atinic 9am-9pm
Halide 12pm-4pm
lunar led 9pm-9am

Right now I only have the halide on for 4hrs a day becuase I have no corals or anything yet, so there is no real need for it.

[keyozoxmfc]

what lighting are you going with again? did you pick the 175? or was it the 250?...and i usually put the astreas back on the side of the tank. if you hold then infront of it, theyll go over there. for me, if i leave them on the sand..they usually die. i have seen it happen. they will be trying to move somewhere, and out of nowhere my nassarius,peppermintshrimp,couple of blue leggged hermits, and my conch are all attacking it ..and it might be because im not actually feeding the tank for them specifically. but yeah i started out with 7 snails, one died, and then i got 3 snails from the lfs, and 2 died. got another 3, and 2 died. its weird. now i have 8 though, and the buy 3 get one seems to be my thing, but i havent bought snails in a long time.

also watch out when they die, since the larger hermits will go for their shells(which is probably why they attack them?) and my only hermit in a snail shell dominants all the other ones and i have seen mine in the snail shell murder smaller hermits, but that may just be me

[Shananagans]

I believe I got the 36" Aqualight Pro 150W HQI/2x65W PC/2x1W Lunar. When the halide is on it is almost to bright to look at. When the atinics are on at night the whole 2nd floor (the floor the tank is on) illuminates blue. My roomates and I were going out sat night and as we drove away we looked back all the windows were blue. Hope the cops dont get the wrong idea....

[Reefbaby]

you might want to just keep the MHs off until you get some corals...no sense in running up your electricity bill for nothing! The fish will be fine with the actinics...of course the lighting looks different....

[Shananagans]

I know, thats why I only have them running for for 4hrs. Just to get some growth goin b4 I completely stock my cleaning crew and fish. How much will it raise the electric bill?

[CarmieJo]

Here is an aquarium cost calculator that lets you enter the cost you pay for electricity. Practical Fishkeeping magazine | Electrical / Electricity costs calculator (http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/electrical_costs.php) Make sure the cost is set to dollars. If you aren't sure what the cost is here is another Generic Electrical Energy Cost Calculator (http://www.csgnetwork.com/elecenergycalcs.html) that uses the average cost for electric in the US.

[keyozoxmfc]

ohh just wondering but i thought that the 150 watt was going to be too weak? or i guess theres not going to be any corals near the bottom then?

[Shananagans]

I'm pretty sure the 150 should be just fine. It is quite bright.

I took some pics, i hope to have them up tom. I'm just to lazy.

So I used that calculator, and its looking like it may cost me $25 a month for the whole tank to run. Maybe even less. So im not to worried about that, just try to justify it to my roomies.

PH 8.2
NH4 0
NO2 0
NO3 20 or 15

[keyozoxmfc]

ok then the best of luck to you with that lighting? are you planning for some sps? wheres these pics man

[Shananagans]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07065.jpg
New light (leds)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07068.jpg
(atinincs)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w143/Shananagans84/Museumandtank07073.jpg
(150w halide)

So as you see the shadow in the middle of the tank is created by the center divider on the top of the tank.


So finally I'm hopeing to get my first fish tom. My LFS supplier is not very reliable and I have been waiting since last friday to get theses. Lets cross our fingers.

[keyozoxmfc]

i wish you luck! looks really nice! i hope that center brace doesnt effect you light performance

[PSH]

I can't understand why the lighting manufacturers build 36" light fixtures with a single metal halide in the center. Almost every tank has a some sort of center brace. I am not sure about you, but that shadow would drive me nuts. In the last picture is the actinics on?

BTW tank is looking great. I love the 65 talls.

[Reefbaby]

I have a center brace in mine as well, but the reflectors seem to take pretty good care of deflecting the light back to the center again....

do you have good reflectors?

[V]

mirrors @ a 45deg angle get around that problem in some cases where you have stubburn coral that collonise under the brace, ive have the same problem, concider yourself lucky, i have 12inch @ least to contend with> old school tanks with double glass reinforcement. move any animals if possible. however, dodgy manufacturers as PSH mentioned only have a centre HQI. better to have twins in the mid end sections.

[Shananagans]

The atinics and halide are on in the last pic. The pic does not do it any justice tho. It is almost to bright to look at. The halide does have reflectors above it, but still does not make it around the brace. I can always put some sort of coral that requires little light there. Not really much else I can do.

Thanks for the compliment, it is really starting to come along now.

Now if I could jsut get some fish in there. I have been waiting for a week for my fish to come into my lfs, but the distributer that he uses for reef fish (because he is cheaper) is not very reliable. On 3 seperate occasions he simply never showed up. Haveing a good relationship with the owner of my lfs I hinted politley that it is not acceptable for his distributer to do that, as it only makes my lfs owner look bad. He then cancelled the order and placed another one with his normal (trustworthy) distributer and (cross your fingers) it should arrive weds. But it is a good experience for me teaching me patience not to just go out and buy every fish that I see, and it is giveing my tank more time to get established. My order should contain 2 clowns, 1 yellow banded shrimp goby and what should be the rest of my clean up crew.

[Shananagans]

So I just wanted to post this because I'm very happy when I saw the results.

Water
72 degrees F
PH 8.2
NH4 0
NO2 0
NO3 0

[Shananagans]

In the past 3 days I have had alot of hair alage and brown diatom form on my glass, the diatom is also on the sand and rock. I was told it was from the charcoal I added about a week ago. I this true? He said it was causeing the phosphate to spike. On a good note I am seeing amphopods all over the glass.

[Shananagans]

So there is now brown diatom everywhere, on the rock and sand. And parts that had color are now white. I removed the carbon to see if that helps. Does anyone have any suggestions... Please!

On a better note, I got fish! A mated pair of clowns (the male is mush smaller), I'll get pics up when I get a chance. I also added 2 more astrea snails, 6 scarlet hermits, and 1 electric blue hermit. All seem to be doing good. Clowns really did'nt seem to eat very much at all. Hopeful they get more of an appetite tonight.

[CarmieJo]

Diatoms are a normal part of your tank's maturation. When my tank was new we went away for the weekend and let the tank take care of itself. At that time I didn't have my lights on timers and they were off from Friday night to Sunday afternoon. When I came home my tank looked pristine! Try cutting back on your lighting.

[Shananagans]

Alot of the rock and sand is brown, alot of the rock is also white now. I did not have the halides come on today, and instead of the atinics being on for 12hrs i think I will drop it down to 6, does that sound ok?

Also the male clown (about 1/3 the size of the female) seems to be doing fine, but the female is not eating. I got them on weds and they were both fairly active, now the female is very inactive, and still not eating. The male will eat frozen brine, but not the veggie pellets i put in, the femal won't eat either. Any ideas on how I can get her to eat, or what I could?

[CarmieJo]

Was the female eating when you got her? Are you soaking your food in garlic? That will often stimulate appetite. Have you tried flakes? No matter what I am feeding I soak it in garlic and vitamins. If your pellets are floating I would at least soak them in tank water because eating at the surface is not natural to the fish.

[Shananagans]

Garlic? like fresh garlic, or powdered?? I've never seen her eat. I got new pellets that are supposed to sink fast, hopefully that will help.

Do you know what the white on the rock is?

[CarmieJo]

I always ask to see fish eat before I buy them. You can crush fresh garlic and soak your food in the juice but I think that is a big hassle. I just buy Garlic Guard at the LFS. A bottle of it lasts for a L-O-N-G time.

[petunia]

how long was it since your cycle was done and you put fish in the tank?

(i'm lazy, and didn't read the entire thread.)

[Shananagans]

About 2 weeks since the cycle ended, and the fish went in on weds. I have had snail and hermits for awhile.

I was told a cleaner shrimp may help too.

[CarmieJo]

I wouldn't add anything else to your tank until you are sure what is going on.

[Shananagans]

So its been about a week, i still have not seen the female eat, but she must be eating something to be alive still.

I also picked up some more snails to combat my diatom problem.
12 tourch
4 cerith
12 nassarius (which are very fun to watch)

[Shananagans]

Good News update.
I finally saw the female eat live brine today. I has been just over a week, so she had to have been eating something. But she finally ate brine. But its almost as if she is blind, the brine will swim right up to her face and she will swim right by it, but occasionaly will eat it.

Also adding the more snails and sutting back the lights seems to have help rid alot of the excess diatom. But there is still more then I'd like left. I also added a bag of phosphate remover.

Has anyone ever put live brine in the tank and then watched them, esp at night under the led lights. Very fun I must say, same with the nassarius snails, very fun to watch.

[CarmieJo]

I love to spy on my tank after lights out. Are you enriching the brine?

[Shananagans]

When I feed frozen yes, not when I feed live.

I also added 2 new additions to the tank, a neon blue goby and a randalli goby. So far doing well. Does anyone have a recomendation on what they feed a randalli?

Diatom is just about gone, not much left.

[CarmieJo]

Unless you are feeding baby brine live should be enriched too. It isn't very nutritious, especially if you have a picky eater.

[petunia]

i love the nassarius snails... they are like 'the living dead'.

[CarmieJo]

Especially when they are dragging strings of sand along with them.


i love the nassarius snails... they are like 'the living dead'.

[mikellini]

Is your water still at 72 degrees farenheit? This seems a little low to me, might be ok for some of the inverts but the fish will not be happy at that temp for long...

[Shananagans]

It is closer to 78 F now.

So on wednesday I picked up 6 more blue leg hermits and a sebae anemone (about 3" by 3"). I put it in a very high current area, and figured it would move if it did not like it. I cam down thurs morning and it did not move, it was holding onto the rock for dear life and flatend out. So I change the current up a abit to help, I also figured it would give my clowns a better chance of hosting it since they might blow away trying to get in there.
Yesterday morning I took a peek in the tank, and the femal clown was playing in the sebae. =) But the male will not leave thier original corner! Will they host it together? Is there anyway I can coax him in there too? I know its a small anemone but I would like to see both of them in there. I feel bad for the male in the corner of the tank. (Hes like the fat kid with asthma that no one wants to pick for kick ball)

It does not look as if the femal is bringing food to the sebae, how often should I feed the anemone and what should I feed it? I have read clam, shrimp, and (silver sliders?) are good. Do the they eat alot, or just small pieces?