hi all!
my coraline algae turned white, like a lot of it did, i still have some purple. and then igot some free coral from my LFS and that started to fade. and then my zoos that were green and purple started to fade. i will check my parameters tonight, and get pictures tomorrow. but does anyone happen to know what happened?

ok so my calcium was 380-400( i have troubles with colors like that, the test requires purple to blue, which are my hardest colors)
carbonate hardness-13/14
ph was 8.3-8.6
nitrates was less than .3mgl is what ever it is mg/l
ammonia- was 0
SG was 1.023
i feed 1/2 teaspoon of zooplex and 1/2 tea spoon of phytoplex by kent marine twice a week.

hm hav u tried using another test kits?

uhh no..i didnt think mine would be wrong...but what do you think is wrong with it? like what do you think is the problem? i use the tetra test kit ..i think

If i remember right coraline algae can turn white with high calcium levels. You might want to start with buying a new calcium tester. I would suggest using Red Sea test kit. The colors change from a type of maroon to a orange. It might be easier for you to see the lighter colors.

i use the Hagan test kit. even IO has a test kit out now, and i use that one as a backup. gotta go to the LFS now, the mother-in-law is on her way over !!

I started in saltwater back in march of 2006 and when i first started i thought, Hey a test kit is a test kit. Since then i have read a lot of articles on test kits and i have trained myself to stay away from test kits such as tetra, However i do use the cheaper test kits for ammonia, Nitrates and nitrites. For the other stuff such as Calcium, Alk, Phosphates, Ph, Iodine and Magnesium i use the more expensive test kit like Red Sea and Seachem. They are harder to use and take a little more time but i feel they are more accurate and while all levels in a salt tank are important i feel Ca, Alk, Phos, PH, Iod and Mag are more important then Nitrates, Nitrites and ammonia.
IMO

Does that make since?

uhh okay. well i will try to get another test kit. i heard that the salifert ones are good?

but does that explain the corals fading colors? only some of the coraline is disapearing though, and its still grows on my walls and equipment. my calcium test is by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals,INC.

The only Salifert test kit i have is for Iodine. I have never used there Ca test kit.

I'm not sure about the corals fading colors. If the water isn't right then it could explain it. When corals start to die they start to loose there bright colors, ultimately turning to brown and then death. Without myself being there in front of tank its hard for me to suggest whats happening.

Try doing 10% water changes every 3 days. That reminds me, what type of water are you using?

Have you made any changes to lighting? What is your water change like? i have found that some corals, ones which prefer lower light will lose color under my halides. Also an increase in nitrates can also cause corals to lose color. Other nutrients like iron depletion may also be responsible. I would start with changing water if no other changes have been made. Several back to back 25% water changes over the next week should help deterimine and fix any deficiencies in your water chemistry.

Most of my test kits are Salifert, they're pretty simple to use and read.

well i use instant ocean salt, and i do use tap water. but it was never a problem before. ihave PCs and all these corals were normal before, and i dont know what happened. i did a water change like 5 days ago that was 25%

could it be anything else at all?? or is it for sure something wrong with my test kit?

o and btw my coraline started to fade way before my corals did

here are some pictures
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0360.jpg
that rock was purple before, not white like that
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0059.jpgbefore
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0359.jpgnow
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0026.jpgbefore
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0358.jpgnow

i have had some corals longer than these so i dont know why is only effected them?

I seem to have SPOTS of coralline bleach and then color back up but nothing like what you are showing. The pix are really helpful, btw.

If you have trouble with the color I would recommend the Salifert kit. It starts out pink and changes to blue or purple. My only complaint is that the directions are not that great. It says you are looking for clear blue when what you are looking for is the change from pink to blue/purple. My husband has a lot of trouble seeing color gradient but he can easily tell when the color changes on this test.

Any chance you did a major water change or cleaned the tank recently so the rocks were exposed to air for a while?

nope not at all, not even close. the closest it got to the outside world was getting touched by my hand that was in a glove. lol ohh yeah thats what mine says, but it says it will turn purple, then it will turn blue after about 2 more drops, but it does start out as pink. so i guess i should assume when it turns purple?

I think so. If you add one chemical to the water and then add a second with the results being based on the amount used it is probably the same concept. Then what you are looking for is the color change and not the exact color. If you are comparing it to a chart with colors on then the exact color is important.

well they do have a little color box that shows what color im supposed to get . but i really dont know if the real problem is my test kit? is it?
if anything i would think ffrom my tests the calcium was low...

im just worried for my corals. i really like them and i had to use my own hard earned money

Did you watch this podcast? http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/podcast-episodes/2134-salifert-ca-test-kit-podcast-episode-68-a.html Does your kit work like that?

uhh its basically the same, just i have to count the drops and every drop is 20, so its about 20 drops to get to 400 . i got uhh like somewhere like 18-20 drops to get the change. like 18 was the initial change, but it was obviously purple and then afterthe 19th drop is where i still think its kinda purple ,but its not

man ithink my hammer and frogspawn is fading too now... or maybe its just my worried mind playing games with me. but either way. im worried. could it be not feeding enough, am i feeding them the wrong way? i use the kentmarine liquid calcium, is that not working? just anything besides my test kit so that i could think about it

How are you testing SG, and can you get a test for magnesium?
Also what kit are you using for alkalinity, 13/14 seems a little high is that measured in dkh, or meg/l?

I think I recall that depleted magnesium can cause what you're experiencing, but I'm going to check around.

Mark,

What lighting do you have?

I'm gonna throw out one more thing, but I have no idea if or how it might apply to your situation.

Something the zeovit users have found is that lowered potassium levels may contribute to coral fading (you know how those SPS guys are about coral color). Anyway this a relatively new thing and may apply more specifically to zeo users and extremely low nutrient tanks. Personally I would think your problem lies elsewhere, but this is a remote possibility.

ok thanks a lot guys. i dont have a mag. test. what can i do to help that if i test and its low? my lights are PCs. yes i do use a hydrometer. but my salinity is pretty consistent over time. and my corals were fine before? and my carbonate hardness is..actually i dont know. i think its dkh..but i dont know

hm boi i have that problem wt my ex torch.. it seems to be like some major bleaching. hows ur lighting> did u change anything?>

nope not at all. 96 watt 10000k and 96 watt actinic. replaced them in maybe November??

could it possibly be i dont have enough light?

I would get some readings with Salifert test kits and do some water changes.

It seems like you have enuff light. I have galaxia at the bottom of my tank with 4 - 65w pc's.

Have you tried spot feeding them and turned off the pumps/ph's?

Do you see hair algae in your tank?

I think that it may be that you are using tap water. I would try a few water changes using RO water.

i dont have access to RO water. i went to the fish store today and got some trace elements. could that be the problem? also maybe the zoos were bad from the start and just slowly were getting worse and worse? could it be that when i did a water change, some particles got into the corals and damaged it? and also the LFS didnt have a salifert test. so i would have to order one anyways

thanks for the help everyone

More water changes would be safer than adding things you cant test for. Although you're using tap so who knows. Are you on city water or a private well? If you have city water there should be a concern that it may be chlorinated, are you using any dechlorinator? Also the water quality in a residential well can change from season to season.

If it is city water you should be able to get specs from them as to whats in the water.

yeah i use prime and kinda overdose that. i have seen many amazing looking reefs in my city water, so im not exactly going to get an RO unit now, but in the future. i am going to do a water change though. but this still has been over some time now. and i did do a water change recently when i saw it? but i will do one anyway soon

The thing about tap water is that its hardly ever the same in diferent areas. Same building maybe, But when i tested the water were I live i tested my house, my neighbors and the kennel here on the property. None matched with each other and we all have the same main feed of water coming in. I would look into buying R/O water at krogers or wally world. Its makes a big difference in the tank.

Differences in plumbing alone can make a difference in water quality out of the tap. Copper pipes can leach copper into the water, Iron pipes corrode and leach iron. Properly treated/filtered water is very important. All kinds of stuuf you cant test for can slowly build up. Remeber the water (top off)you put in evaporates, but the stuff which inadvertently gets added with the water doesnt.

yeah. well i still need to convince my mom to let me get an RO unit ..lol..yeah definately. i want to get that one from that ebay store for like 200 bucks that has the pressurized tank for drinking water as well. maybe i can bribe my mom with AMAAZING DRINKING WATER! lol

Hi Mark,

Around here the supermarkets and Wal-mart all have water machines that dispense RO water. In Ohio some drug stores have them. Depending on the store they can be "hidden" so I would ask at the information desk if they have one.

so i should go and get RO water just for one water change? is it really the water though? cause it wasnt a problem before, cause i had one of the corals pretty much since i got the tank and it was doing great before?

I wouldnt say it wasnt a problem before. There could be something in the water which has slowly been building up in your system over time. Also your water company may have changed something in the water. There's way too many unknowns, having a water filtration unit will eliminate a huge gray area and give you some control.

I would suggest that you always use RO water. If you buy it here at the lfs it is $0.45/gallon for RO / DI and at the grocery store or Wal-Mart it is $0.33 - 0.40 for plain RO.

uhh okay. well im working on getting an RODI unit. how many times do you have to change the filters? and is it hard?

The filters are not hard to change and the frequency depends on how much water you make. You should get a TDS meter when you get the unit and use it to monitor the water you are making.

I try to change the filters, and DI resin in mine every 6 months, they're not very expensive. The RO membrane should last a couple years.

Check this site. Melevsreef.com This is where I got my unit from. I know you want the expansion tank, but that can be added later. I think places like Home Depot sell them. My first RO unit came from Home Depot it was only 10GPD, but on my first tank that was plenty.

ehh well looks like its hopeless. because i was just at the LFS and there were some other veterans of the reefing hobby there. and iwas chatting with them and one said he didnt use RO and the other said he did. they said it does make a pretty big difference. but once the one who used it said he needed about 100 gallons to make 5 gallons, my mom said no. he also said that he was sent a letter from the water dept. that he was in the top 20% water users in THE CITY! and also they said that they think maybe my problem is not enough iodine for the zoos and not enough magniseum for the coraline. so i will see how that goes. i bought some kent marine TECH-I and then i will start using a more REEF salt that has more of the elements in there

Well, I think that guy has a pretty bad RO unit. Mine is about 4:1. That would be 20 gallons of water used to make 5 gallons of RO. That is less than one load of laundry in a typical washing machine. I also use the waste water for my houseplants. If you are dosing for iodine and magnesium you should have the kits to test for them. Mg needs to be kept in the proper ration to Ca and I have heard that you can overdose on iodine.

yeah well the guys i was talking with said that no one uses the iodine test
and then magniseum i would just rely on the kent marine salt or reef crystals. well i can try to convince my mom then. i will see how it goes.

costco has started selling a waste-less unit, i cant say anything about the quality because i have never used one, but maybe worth looking at if they still have it

Recently there has been a surge in people moving towards DI only systems ( no waste, and the DI resin is rechargeable). Ususally a couple Sediment/Carbon canisters are employed as well.

RO/Di discussions (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic25081-13-1.aspx)

DI only systems (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic54351-13-1.aspx?Highlight=di)

Recharging DI resin (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic53825-13-1.aspx)

I have been dosing iodine for some time without using a test kit, however when I started dosing I did use a test kit to monitor levels in my water. Now that I've established how much to dose and still stay at or below NSW levels I dont test as frequently. ( Just a point, my dosing schedule for iodine rarely even shows on my test kit).A test kit should be employed at least during initial dosing. Every system is going to take it differently so just following manufacturers dosing instructions wont necessarily be appropriate.

Iodine dosing discussion (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic48723-13-1.aspx)

With the Magnesium, regular testing is a must IMO, Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium go hand in hand, and having one off can screw up the other two.

Here's a couple articles worth reading. Also for future reference solutions for dosing Ca, Mg, and Alk can be made very inexpensively and safely at home.

Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnsium (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php)

Do it yourself supplements (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php)

yeah well the guys i was talking with said that no one uses the iodine test
and then magniseum i would just rely on the kent marine salt or reef crystals. well i can try to convince my mom then. i will see how it goes.


I test on a regular basis for Magnesium. Salifert makes a great test kit for this. In order for your Calcium to be used efficiently by the corals, the Magnesium levels need to be about 3X the level of the Calcium (in terms of weight or ppm). For me, Magnesium is as important to measure as nitrates, phosphates and calcium. I would strongly recommend measuring before dosing anything.

I use Tropic Marin's Magnesium supplement. It comes in a powdered form and you can add it slowly to your tank to get the levels up and then dose on a regular basis to keep the levels there.

Your pH seems a bit high to me as well. I would try to keep it between 8.1-8.3.

Here's a great article on the importance of Magnesium in the Reef Aquarium (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php)

By the way, I know it seems like a big investment to get a RO system for your tank, but it could end up being one of the most important factors in keeping your system healthy. Over the years, you will end up investing a lot of money in fish, corals and the general maintenance of your system. The quality of tap water is a constant variable and although it's usually "good" enough for us to drink, there are many chemicals and metals in the water that can be extremely detrimental for our reef systems. If anything, we should measure what goes into our own bodies based on how these delicate ecosystems react to certain substances! Because we are maintaining our reefs in a closed system, a lot of these "factors" will also become more concentrated over time in the tanks and can "suddenly" reach levels that are toxic.

Before you invest money in new lighting, I would seriously consider trying to rather invest in an efficient (the least water wasting) RO system. It's just one more factor that can hopefully help you beat the odds and continue to maintain a thriving, healthy reef aquarium. It's definitely worth the money spent!!

yeah lighting is really far away. but i seriously have to convince my mom to let me get the RO unit. when i finish my homework i will definitely look at those DI on articles. yeah and i have been meaning to get some salifert tests, but the stores around me dont carry them so i am going to probably get it online. ireally appreciate all this help everyone! thanks a lot.

and also im not dosing magnesium yet though. but are those "reef" salts better?

oh yeah and rob, are those costco systems really expensive, because the aquarium my mom works at told me they have a recirculating RODI unit or something like that, but it requires an expensive and break prone pump?

mark,

I have a 40 gallon reef that is about 3 months old now. I started with tap water and had several salifert tests. They are the best. VERY accurate and fairly straightforward. As Rob mentioned in the podcast you are looking for change not for color making it a bit easier to see the results.

I can also tell you this...I have changed to R/O water. I get it for $.35/gallon at the LFS. It has made a HUGE difference!! More than anything else I have done with the tank. Lighting, elements, etc. It is very important to get to water in the tank. I would just get some simple 2.5 gallon spring water containers from the grocery and dump the spring water. the LFS will fill these and make it very easy to measure your water change and use the rest for top-offs (also a great place to be sure to use r/o and not tap) This is a very cheap and effective way to get R/O. Measure how many gallons you will really use over a year and how much you are going to pay for a unit vs. buying it at the LFS. I think you might be ahead if you get it at LFS and don't have to deal with the unit/filters, etc.

Also I have been using Kent Lugol's solution iodine. it really helps with your soft corals. Perhaps you could try this. I use 3 drops for 40 gallons once a week and have had good luck.

Finally I might suggest Instant Ocean Brand Reef Crystals for your water change. this will add several trace elements and items to the tank to hopefully improve your corals. It is an all in one easy solution and you don't have to buy so much stuff individually. you can check the bag to see what is in it. (1/2 cup/gallon)

Anyway sort-of long winded but topics I have recently experienced.

great info ! thanks! well id prefer to get the unit instead just because of convenience that i dont have to go to the LFS to get water. i do plan to either get the reef crystals or the kent salt for my water changes soon. and i too have heard of lugols, but the LFS and other reef vets that were there said 1 drop per 25 gallons so id just thought i tell you what they said. they also said it was probably a little too much for me and i should try the other one. they said that was for the "pros". but i guess if it works for you?


and i am sorry to say my mom is being B#$#@. im sorry for my language but its just really really pissing me off. because she always talks about my tank and says " oh mark that look like brown hair algae, that cheato doesnt look so good, that corals looks like its fading, that looks like its dying, your coraline is fading "and many other things that might be wrong. then when she finds out the solution costs money, she says ohh thats not hair algae, you dont have an algae problem. that algae is normal. ohh mark the coral is fading cause you just should do water changes everyweek. ohh mark you dont need a better fuge, your cheato looks good , its growing. i just cant explain to you how ANGRY i feel. its like FDKSHFNKLJKLDSFJDKLSJFKLDSNHJKLHLSDFJDSJFDJSAFJDFK HJKLAVJALIEUTINIAE

Mark,

I have read the lugol's and it is 1 drop/25 but I have had good luck with my 3 drops. but only 1 time per week. The LFS guys helped me with the dosing and assured me I would have good luck and I have. I have even gone to using it every 9 days sometimes since I might forget some days. I figure some of it might end up in my filters?? The bottle is very clear about dosing and be careful not to overdose. Doesn't mean it will work for everyone but just my thoughts on how I have used it.

Again it is convenient to have the R/O at home but is way cheaper to get it at LFS and a lot less hassle to deal with. I guess you can't drive and would have to get a ride to/from water shop so maybe it would be nice at home...

Mark,

It is tough being a kid. It is also tough being the mom:). I think the best thing to do is to just give your mom the facts backed up by research. Whatever you do don't whine :cry: or argue:madmad:. That just gives her ammunition to say you are too young and immature.

Research the salt. I find it is more cost effective to use IO and supplement than to buy a "reef" salt. Look mom, I can save this much... BTW, I do weekly water changes although I know other people who do them less often. I think it is cheap tank insurance.

haha yeah...just like BLAHH though. well apparently my LFS doest even use RO water. and the aquarium where my mom works doenst either! so i guess i am really really going to have a hard time with that. =( really i noticed the "reef" salt is barely more expensive than regular IO?

gluck wt ur tank mark. i hope we can do our best to help ya

The best way to get your mom's support is to get her more involved. And to show her that you're well-read on the topics and to point on the benefits of "A" and/or "B". I even have to justify the costs to my husband kiddo! But, it's all good...it shows responsibility in decision-making and money-spending. Maybe you could work out some deal with your mom to do something extra around the house??

So...back to the Magnesium. As with everything in reefkeeping, DON'T DOSE WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW! I highly recommend dosing for Magnesium, but you've got to check your current levels first and continue to check on a regular basis. In my experience, the reef salts still aren't able to completely compensate for the amount of Magnesium that is needed (the same goes for Calcium). So, even though it might be a component of the reef salt mixture, it's likely to not be enough. Order a Salifert Magnesium kit online, measure your levels, and then you can make a better decision about what needs to be done. I use Tropic Marin's Bio-Magnesium
http://www.tropic-marin.com/web/produkte/prdpic/biomagnesium.JPG

My canister usually lasts for quite awhile...

Good luck!

thanks Christi. i will check them out. yeah my mom is really into my reef actually. whenever someone comes over to look at it, she always explains everything to them and how my setup is and stuff like its her own. and the money is actually my money, but its just in the bank which she controls.she just thinks everything can always be solved with water changes. and that i dont need RO water, and that i dont need a sump. just becaause some people we know dont have them, she uses that as an excuse

hahah looking at my previous posts, i was pretty frustrated. but good news is, i think the corals are improving. i will have pictures later. but its still not exactly the same.

well how are they looking! i snapped some pictures, and i think theyre improving!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0026.jpg
AT first

then
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0358.jpg

now
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0406.jpg

first http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0059.jpg
thenhttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0359.jpg
nowhttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/keyozoxmfc/IMG_0408.jpg

Improvement Right Guys?!?!

awww so sorry to see that happen to u , mark

Things are lookin good, so what did you do?

ALRIGHT its just not my mind thinking its better
so what i did was
1 STARTED SHAKING MY BOTTLES OF PHYTO AND ZOOPLANKTON! LOL
2 i started to add some iodine
3 trace elements
4 upped my water changes

aww man now they are both faded again...the zoos arent AS bad...but faded..the other one i dont know the name of, is pretty much just as bad. i ahvent changed anything...AHHHHH reefs are such headaches

Do you treat your tap water? Lots of the cheaper "tap water conditioners" don't get rid of chloramine, just chlorine -- and they add some formaldehyde-type chemical to trigger fish into producing slime coats, which (theoretically) protects them from the chloramine, but your corals and zoanthids will still be subjected to a slow, steady buildup of chloramine. Chloramine also won't evaporate out with the old "leave the tap water aerating overnight" trick.

I'm still using tap water (our water here is pretty good) and with a bright light over a white bucket I can actually see the colour cast of the water go from a slight green to a slight blue when I dump in a capful of Prime and drop in a powerhead.

well it was okay at first...then it got bad...then it got better and nowits bad again. i use prime as well. i actually always does a little more for safety

well actually the zoos look like they did in that most recent picture...still but that other coral that i dont know the name of looks really clear again

OHH!! i have now come to the conclusion that this is a galaxy coral...(the one thats not the zoo ) so is there any info that anyone knows about the galaxy coral and the fading?

hrm... how close is the Galaxea to your other corals? At night those things can produce sweeper tentacles almost as long as your arm, and they can be quite deadly.

If the other "faders" are within 5 to 7 inches of the Galaxea I'd say the Galaxea might be the only coral that actually has some problem with the water quality, with the others simply being victims of a sweeper attack/defense mechanism from it. Have you done any night viewing lately, sneaking up on the tank with a dim LED or flashlight at 3 or 4AM?

Best advice I've heard for nursing a distressed Galaxea back to health is "Stop all chemical and trace element dosing, cut back on phytoplankton and zooplankton usage, do small daily or bi-daily water changes for a week or two while monitoring the coral and rest of the tank closely for changes."

Another option might be to give the Galaxea a brief "vacation". Move it into it's own small tank or rubbermaid for a while. I moved our Goniopora tenuidens into a small 5g tank for few days when I noticed tissue recession along it's edges and it healed quite quickly without any fish or crabs or other tankmates bothering it.

In a small tank a 27W 6500K compact fluorescent Daylight bulb can light most corals since it only has to penetrate a depth of an inch or two; and changing 20% of the water is a snap when 20% = 1 gallon. :)

well on the bright side it was free and didnt have too many heads..so it wouldnt be a financial loss. and the heads really grew a lot and it really was doing well


the only thing its near is xenia and what ithink might be a phavia...im not too sure..but it was free as well