I've had my 120 gallon tank for about four months now. I bought a new fox face and some triggers.

The Bursa trigger looks like it's dying, it's laying on its side and shooting all around the tank.

The Fox Face is Yello and black (normal) then randomly goes BROWN like something in a video game when you get poisoned. LOL

I've tested the Nitrates and they are at 0/0 (tested with a test strip twice)

The ammonia is low as well.

The PH is at 7.8 - 8.0....

What is going on here!?

:eek:

First off

http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gif

Second, slow down. The tank is only 4 months old , and adding too much at once can throw things outta whack and result in death.

I bought a new fox face and some triggers.

How many triggers, and what kind/kinds?

The Bursa trigger looks like it's dying, it's laying on its side and shooting all around the tank.

How was this fish acclimated? Are you using a Quarantine tank?

The Fox Face is Yello and black (normal) then randomly goes BROWN like something in a video game when you get poisoned. LOL

Its normal for foxface to change color when stressed, sleeping, or scared.

The ammonia is low as well.

Ammonia should be undetectable. What is your ammonia reading?

What is going on here!?

Too much livestock was added at once. Now some questions.

1) Is this a Fish Only FO tank
2) Does it contain any live rock
3) Is there any other livestock in there already?
4) What kind of triggers
5) How large are these fish

Test strips are known to not be that accurate. You should get a regular testing kit.

hm did u get a whole bunch of fish at once?

got to be fish only surely, we're talking about triggers here.
once you answer the below questions we should be able to dirrect you towards safe guarding a crash. it could be something simple like to much feeding not enough water changes or something far worst. clearly youv'e made the commitment to the cause, 120gal is a decent chunk of water.
giving the background, your approx experience level, mentioning anything thats happen in the past week (eg. change of procceedures, house if being painted ect ect) then others will be able to make better educated guesses. Most of all dont panic, you have some hardy fish there, they bounce back reasonably quickly.

First off

http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gif

Second, slow down. The tank is only 4 months old , and adding too much at once can throw things outta whack and result in death.



How many triggers, and what kind/kinds?



How was this fish acclimated? Are you using a Quarantine tank?



Its normal for foxface to change color when stressed, sleeping, or scared.



Ammonia should be undetectable. What is your ammonia reading?



Too much livestock was added at once. Now some questions.

1) Is this a Fish Only FO tank
2) Does it contain any live rock
3) Is there any other livestock in there already?
4) What kind of triggers
5) How large are these fish



We purchased two triggers, the trigger I mentioned in my original post ended up dying today.

I took a cup of water to my local fish store and they tested it. The water is FINE/PERFECT apparently. Four days ago we did a water change.

The guy at the store said it was most likely an issue with the fish and not the water/tank. This makes sense because all other fish are alive and swimming calmly (as opposed to darting across the tank because their gills are being burned)

We do have quite a bit live rock. We have a Bursa Trigger and a Niger Trigger.

These are the fish we have in our 120 Gal:

Powder Blue Tang
Bursa Trigger
Niger Trigger
Fox Face (rabbit fish)
Yellow Tang
One angel fish, (I forget it's exact name)
One LION fish (that ended up killing our starfish)
We have four False percula clown fish that hang out with each other!

Two Pink Tip anemone's which have been placed at the end of the tank (we have a tank separater so that they aren't eaten by the lion fish) We have the required light for the anemones and they seem to be thriving thankfully.

The diatom issue has gone away, (thank god):p

We've had the tank for four months, as you can see we went all out....

You stated that ammonia should be undetectable so we went out and bought the remover and I will be testing it shortly. (thanks)

What do you guys think about "aquaripure" from aquaripure.com - it claims to remove nitrates!?!?!?

No more water changes!

"Denitrator"

Check this out on ebay. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Aquarium-Denitrator-for-Tanks-up-to-133-Gallons_W0QQitemZ160004455393QQihZ006QQcategoryZ46 310QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

bring nitrates down to undetectable levels?!

What's your opinion on this? If this works, it is everyone aquarists dream.

:o Almost speechless.

I wouldnt use the ammonia remover, it may affect the bacterial populations which you will need to keep the ammonia in check. Nitrates arent a huge issue for the fish, but for the anemone they could be a problem. This tank really isnt appropriate for an anemone.

I think the fish stocking is going to be a problem in the long run when the fish grow up possibly even sooner. Thats alot of fish for a 120g tank.

I think you're just taking things too fast with your tank. I've had my tank up and running about the same length of time and I don't even have a quarter of the livestock you do, and I'm still putting off making my next purchase (which I've decided is gonna be a mandarin goby... YAY!). Its like a growing child... you can't expect it to be able to do everything you want it to do from the get go. Give it time to mature and settle between additions.

The brown spots on your foxface are probably just because of stress. My yellow tang had the same problem his first week in the tank, before he staked out a home territory to sleep in and feel safe. Most likely that'll stop... if you want to help him, try making a little cave or sticking a piece of PVC in the tank for him to feel safe in. He'll be fine.

Edit: Oh yeah... I would not go ANYWHERE near additives in your tank, especially when you're having problems with your livestock and you don't know why.

Hi thud,

:welcome: to TR. It sounds like you have a really nice setup. Can you tell us a little more about your filtration and lighting? You have started out rather quickly and it sounds out like you may not have received the best of advice. For instance the clowns & the lion are incompatible and the test strips are known to be unreliable.

So where do you go from here? Well you have made a good find in TR. There are lots of very knowledgeable hobbyists here that are happy to share their knowledge with you. This is a great hobby and we want to help you make your little bit of ocean a success!

You will probably hear our favorite proverb "The only thing that happens fast in a saltwater tank is DISASTER." more than once. (In time you will even find yourself repeating it!) We are going to ask you lots of questions and sometimes we are going to tell you that you have made a mistake. You will find out that sometimes we disagree with each other. That is because there are legitimate options in this hobby. There are also people who do things wrong and still have success.

One more thing, if something promises to eliminate basic maintenance it is worthless at best and possibly bad for your tank.

Your right Carmiejo, since I have come on to TR that what all the people who know what they are talking about say about additives. It's like weight loss, there are all kinds of pills out there who promise that all you have to do is take thier pill and poof, weight is gone. In reality for the majority of people it's just working out and eating healthy. There is no magic bullet out there. Except for flatworm exit lol

Flatworm exit?

Flatworm exit?
its a chemical used to kill flatworms
and its nor miracle.. while it works to kill flatworms it can be dangerous to use if not prepared properly

Somebody please ease my anxiety, but I cant help but continue to think about the livestock in this tank.

Powder Blue Tang - 9 inches, min tank size 100g
Bursa Trigger - 9 inches
Niger Trigger - 19.7 inches, min tank size 75g ( this makes no sense, full grown it would have trouble turning around)
Foxface - 9.4 inches min tank size 75g
Yellow Tang - 7.9 inches, min tank size 75g
Angelfish - This could be a dwarf or a giant, hopefully not the latter
Lionfish - again this could be a dwarf, large or a giant
Finally the Percs - I feel really bad for these guys, no wonder they hang out together.

Thud, I think you are the victim of misinformation, cause I cant imagine that anyone would knowingly put all of these fish together let alone in a 120g tank. Two of the larger fish would be enough for this tank IMO.

Well, for what it's worth, I've never seen a niger nearly that big. I worked at an LFS for 6 years (back in the early 90's), have scuba dived, and have been in my share of wholesalers places. I've seen some freakishly big specimens of a lot of species, but never a niger over 12-14 inches. Not saying there aren't 19 inchers somewhere out there in the wild, but I'd love to see the biggest ones in captivity that were purchased at a small size.
At any rate, it does sound like that will be a packed house when all those fish grow.

i agree its a lot, and too much..
is this a list of the actual fish and there actual sizes?
i thought some of them died, and some were replacements, and i dont see where any sizes were given (not that it matters cause they will grow)

That's a list of the fish and their full grown size as listed in Marine Fishes.

The list of fish in the tank was posted after stating that one of the newly purchased triggers had died.

What concerns me, the fish are going to be stressed and will suffer high mortality rates, Thud is getting very poor information from his/her LFS, Thud has spent alot of money on fish which are likely to die IMO due to crowded conditions, Thud is going to get very discouraged and potentially leave what should be a more or less relaxing hobby.

lol.. yes, i agree...
i think Thud needs to slow it down a bit, and take a close look at what he's doing...

Thud, please take some time and research these species. you should not listen to just one source (TR, LFS, or anything) its best to do your homework and learn whats best.. :)

and here at TR we can help with out the factor of making a buck off ya.. ;)

even though i agree with the others in principle, i have to mention that you guys worry to much! 454lt or 120gal is still a fair chunk of water, & even though he hasn't mentioned the sizes of his fish, the figures quoted below are full adult sizes, which by all accounts can up to and exceed 10years to grow that large (very species dependant)
His first worry is free swimming space, he's egg created off an area for the anems so as long as the others still have the swimming space he's ok. Yes thats alot of fish, & i'll admit i wouldn't have stocked it quite so fast or in such numbers, but hey, he's not me, so i'll give the advice instead that if your happy with your set-up, just put in play the safe guards to ensure you dont have many future problems.

Firstly, your tangs are usually the first to show signs of trouble on the horizon, so besides keeping an eye on the indivual temperments of each fish, pay particular attention to those guys. secondly, ensure the rock work doesn't restrict swimming space, thirdly, cause youv'e got so many fish, water changes are at the top of the list every week or ever second. You cant afford to be complacant in that area. Auto top-off units are handy in this regard.

basicly if you have the master test kit & pay attention to what your doing & how your doing it you might be ok, just keep in reserve that you may need to cut back on your lifestock if the bio-load starts overloading your means to combat it!
:up:

Talking personally, the first to trade would be the lion and the angle. those combinations take up alot of space

The fish are all very much alive, I check the water for ammonia, check the PH and Nitrates EVERY day.

None of my fish are over 6 inches in length. We assumed it would take quite a few years for them to grow. The lion fish is about 4 inches and the bursa trigger is only 4 - 5 inches as well.

If they should get out of hand and need more room; buying another 150 gallon or larger is not an issue.

well in this case it sounds like your biggest issue is with compatibility, but with them all being small, the aggression issue might just be ok as well..

ok, i think the root issue in this thread has gotten a bit lost (at least to me) under all this talk over fish sizes, load and compatibility

can you, one more time for us, list out the tank parms (actual readings) and whats going on (besides the bursa dying)

The bursa died, we've concluded that it was just the fish. The water was and is perfect, no other fish were showing signs of stress or ... dying.

As of right now the fish are all behaving as they should.

Oh by the way, Rob. This is "Thud" from AOL IM :)

The two anemones are doing good, we bought special lighting for them.

thud,

Glad to hear that things are going well with the rest of your critters. It sounds like you are conscientious and have the desire to have a beautiful tank. I would advise that you buy some test kits as opposed to the test strips. The kits are acknowledged to be more accurate and will help you keep everything running smoothly. Personally I use API for pH, NH3, NO2 & NO3 and Salifert for everything else.

Are your clowns segregated to the side with the anemones? If not I think that I would. Your lionfish might decide to that they look like lunch. :)

If they should get out of hand and need more room; buying another 150 gallon or larger is not an issue.

sweet!:up: n/p then