Wavemaker types and usages by TR peeps

[Astrivian]

I wanted to create a thread on wavemakers and variable flow controls people use in their aquariums. From what i gather, there are several options ranging from timers to unique devices like the Wave2k. What kinds of things have you all done and how do you think they work?

[saxman]

we have been running a SCWD for years on the reef. works quite well, never misses a beat, and is quiet. we'll be using them in at least two more projects that are in the works.

[Astrivian]

I was just looking at the SCWDs online and was going to ask about them. They mechanically alter the flow right? Do you have yours on a closed loop?

[saxman]

the one that is running is on the main return, but we're planning on running one on a closed loop for Renee's 50 gal pent SH setup...we've actually tested it and it works nicely.

[Rob]

the only thing i used was a SCWD too, i liked it..
dont have it hooked up currently but i thinking about putting back on

[BrianPlankis]

I am planning on using the Corallife 8 outlet power strip with timer (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/ESU-01690.html). I use one now for my light setup and it has been running my lights (MH when ON, Fuge bulb when OFF) for over a year now, kind of like, well, clockwork :D

Only four outlets are controllable by the timer (2 are on and the other two are off and then switch depending on the timer). It can do as low as 15 minute intervals, although I'll probably set mine to every 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. I'm planning on running one Tunze 6060 and a maxijet on two outlets and a Tunze 6025 and Tunze 6045 on the other two outlets.

The tabs on the dial are hard to manipulate, but once they are set, you are good to go.

Brian

[PSH]

I have a Natural Wave timer with 3 maxijets. It works well. Sometimes the maxijet will click before the impeller starts the right direction. Making you think you have a huge mantis problem.

[Astrivian]

How quickly do the SCWDs alternate the flow?

[George]

How quickly do the SCWDs alternate the flow?
Since it's driven by the water flow, that's dependent on the water pressure you put through it, to a point. They operate mechanically using the water flow to drive a screw.

I used to use one on my 75. If I recall right, it was 5-7 seconds or so for me at about 600-700 gph, but I never actually timed it.

[Rob]

yes, as George alluded to, the faster the water flow threw it, the faster it will switch
mine was about 5 seconds at 800-900 GPH

[Astrivian]

yes, as George alluded to, the faster the water flow threw it, the faster it will switch
mine was about 5 seconds at 800-900 GPH

Oh okay, so you could use these to make waves if you wanted to. One thing i was listening to on reefvideos (http://www.reefvideos.com)' Anthony Calfo video 2, is that turning on and off powerheads can really reduce the life of the motors. Has anyone noticed that?

Has anyone tried the Wave2K (http://www.wave2k.com/product.htm)? This thing seems really cool but it will not fit on my tank.

[Small Fry]

wow, that looks like a very good idea, and i dont see how it could ever clog.

However i wouldnt imagine you would get a whole lot of flow through that.

Im planning on using an oceans motions 4-way on my 120. I looked at the squid but from what i saw they have a limit much lower than my pump (3600) or something??? i just like the option of getting different drums for different flow patterns.

anyhow, alot of other people i know use the OM 4-way on their tanks (generally the larger tanks)

[Astrivian]

Oh that looks pretty cool josh. Wow, those are not cheap though. Do you think you could use them to create waves? I am really biased toward waves after seeing the Wave2k.

I am hoping to be able to alternate the flow from one side of the tank to the other to create the back and forth effect of a wave.

[Rob]

yes, the devices like OM or SCWD's are better than using timers.
as noted they reduce the life. some pumps are designed for this like the MJ pumps are, others like the SEIOs are not designed for wavemakes and you can hurt them.

designed or not, frequent starts and stops can have negative affects on the pump, and IME, its not the motor, but the casing. the impeller tends to shake in there, and it will start to pop into the sides and wear away at the inner casing, once it breaks through you get water in there and fry the motor

[NaClFinatic]

I am planning on using the Corallife 8 outlet power strip with timer ...

Only four outlets are controllable by the timer (2 are on and the other two are off and then switch depending on the timer). It can do as low as 15 minute intervals, although I'll probably set mine to every 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. I'm planning on running one Tunze 6060 and a maxijet on two outlets and a Tunze 6025 and Tunze 6045 on the other two outlets.

Brian,
What size tank are you using those pumps in? I am planning to use the same timer for my 90g but wondering what pumps would be best. I was thinking of just alternating two tunze 6060 but is that too much for a 90?

I posted the question in this thread (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/pump-current-generators/3011-circulation-90-gallon.html)too with some other notes
.

[Small Fry]

yess, they are not cheap, however i will be getting one for (only lol) $275, which is cheap to me because they usually sell for about $500.

At any price, im getting one.
And the reason i am biased towards them is because i do not see how it can get clogged, well i can, but the scwd seems easier to clog to me.

And i do not remember off hand how fast the current switches, but i think the only thing that will have true waves is the wave2k, wave in like, 1.5 inch swell kind of thing. Im more into the alternating current myself.

[duke1231]

Are the wave makers for bigger tanks some then bigger then say my 29gal?

[duke1231]

oh another question I have is about the SCWD how does that work I went to marinedepot.com but didn't understand. The pump you plug into it is a pump like the one I have returning water from sump to my DT? Does it have suction cups how does it sit in your tank? What pump could I use to power it for my 29gal?

[wwest]

The wave maker can be used for any size tank. The limit to GPH is 1300gph i believe. someone correct me if im wrong. I really like the SCWD and i cant wait untill i get off me behind and install mine. I think its a good investment for the cost and is very affective.


The SCWD mounts to your tank however you want it too. All you have to do is make alittle hanger for it. You could use it inline with your return pump. For your 29gal tank you will want a 3/4 inch bulk head which is 300gph and depending on your head loss and without the SCWD you would want a return pump that is around 300-350 I use a 300 on my tank which is a 29gal and it is perfect for the return. However i dont have the SCWD hooked up. Once you add that into the mix you will have a greater head loss so im not sure about the pump size then.

[BrianPlankis]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to pass along an update, the 6060 CANNOT be run on the Corallife timer unless it runs for at least an hour between shutoffs. So I'm just going to keep my 6060 on all the time to be safe. More info:

I asked Roger from Tunze if I could run my 6060 on the Corallife and he said it needs to run for at least 1 hour before being shut off to prevent a shorter motor life. So I'm not going to risk my 6060 on a wavemaker.

Here is the thread:
Reef Central Online Community - Tunze 6060 and Red Sea WaveMaster Pro (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=992519)

I read that the 6025 and 6045 (their new nanostreams are able to be used every 15 minutes on a wavemaker, so I'll just use those on the wavemaker.

A quote from Roger: "The start up wears the drive unit, this can lead to the pump overheating. In theory a fifteen minute min should give a five year life."

In this thread:
Reef Central Online Community - Tunze Nano thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=974262&perpage=25&pagenumber=4)

I'll be running my 6045 and maxijet (and possibly 6025) on the wavemaker on half hour intervals.

Brian

[Astrivian]

Out of curiosity, does anyone try pointing powerheads at each other to get chaotic flow?

[BrianPlankis]

Yep, I do it all the time! I have my return flow, a MJ900 and my Tunze 6060 all aimed at the same spot in the tank to create chaotic flow.

Brian

[Rob]

yep, i do this also.. :)
i believe its one of the methods i described in the powerhead podcast (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/podcast-episodes/149-poweheads-podcast-episode-5-a.html)

[Small Fry]

wow,. i missed that, i guess i have to listen

I GET PAID ON THURSDAY!!! (why iz thiz exciting?? bcuz it meanz i can have the fundaage to pay for ze OM 4-way, then i simply hook it all up and im done, whooohoooo-ness)

[Astrivian]

lol, contrats fry on the OM.

My in-laws got me a Mag 24 pump for Xmas. So now i am all that much closer to completing the sump. Very cool. (my wife, who bought me my new tank, got me a masonic ring...i guess she is getting tired of me talking about what new fish stuff i need :) ).

Oh, on a side note, i checked with the Wave2k peeps and they said he makes a special bracket for the center unit for glass tanks with a eurobrace around the top. i will see if i can get some pics of this, but i am really into the device. If i can, i will definitely go for a center unit.

[Astrivian]

Out of curiosity, the wave2k and the tunze seem to accomplish the same things. How does the tunze make waves though?

[gwen_o_lyn]

Brian,
What size tank are you using those pumps in? I am planning to use the same timer for my 90g but wondering what pumps would be best. I was thinking of just alternating two tunze 6060 but is that too much for a 90?

I posted the question in this thread (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/pump-current-generators/3011-circulation-90-gallon.html)too with some other notes
.

I have 2 6100's in my 72g and I'm not looking back. I'm very glad I got the 6100's, since I was debating between that and the 6000's. It was only about $150 more for the 6100's. I keep them turned down most the time, but I like turning them to 100% and watching the detritus start flying. Keep in mind my tank is BB so I'm not sure if it's too much flow for a SB tank, but I don't think it would be. I mainly bought them for my future tank which will be about 125g.

Astrivian- you can create waves with the tunze streams by using the controller. You can have one pump burst for a sec, followed by another and so forth. With 4 pumps going, I'm sure you could get a nice wave action. If you can imagine it, you can do it with the tunze controller.

Or were you talking about the tunze wavebox (http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_wavemakers_tunze_wavebox.asp?CartId=)?

[Astrivian]

Oh i guess i mean the wavebox. I didn't know there were two devices.

[Rob]

a wave maker controls a few powerheads and is relatively cheap
this is a wavebox
Tunze® Wavebox 6212/6212.50 Wavemaker - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store (http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_wavemakers_tunze_wavebox.asp)

[iglowce]

i used hydor pump.. cheap and quite effective

[Mr. Tang]

yes, as George alluded to, the faster the water flow threw it, the faster it will switch
mine was about 5 seconds at 800-900 GPH

So if it changes flow every 5 second, the current is pretty choppy? I was thinking of putting one on an CL with four outputs. Would that work?

[Rob]

sure would work, you will have a nice alternating flow going.. :)

[ReeferLogan]

Hi guys,
on a lot of my tanks I'm using MJ's paired with Hydor "Flo" rotating powerheads. At usually less than 20 bucks you can't beat the price for variable flow. The little things are fairly simple to clean and rarely clog. On my 180 I have 6 of the combos tapped off a DA ReefKeeper2, along with a squid on the return lines.
Cheers,
Logan

[Astrivian]

Welcome to TR Logan! You will dig this site, lots of great people here.

That's good to hear about the hydor flo things Logan; i have been eyeing them with curiosity for a while now. I've seen some people use them on PHs for a fuge. I guess they wont work with the MJ mod though.

Out of curiosity, would you all recommend going with a closed loop, lots of powerheads, or a mix of both?

[ReeferLogan]

i personally like the redundancy of a mixed return system. if the main return should fail, good water movement can still be met while i change out the pump. my 2 cents.
Logan

[Astrivian]

Just to throw something new in here, i have been listening to some talks and reading articles posted by Jake Adams on his flow studies. He makes an interesting point about turbulence: it will happen given enough time. Essentially, he is coming from a chaos POV; over a large enough scale small, inevitable differences caused at the molecular level will add exponentially to create large scale changes in water movement. This results in turbulence. It is for this reason that the jet of water coming from a powerhead only goes so far int the tank before it is dispersed.

His idea is to move the entire water column in the tank with something called a gyre. He suggested placing four MJ PH's in the four corners of the tank and pointing them in a circle. Visualize a rectangular tank looking straight down. Place a PH in the upper left corner pointing toward the front, one in the bottom left corner pointing to the right side of the tank, a PH in the bottom right point toward the back of the tank, and a PH in the upper right corner pointing to the left along the back. This will cause the water to spin like a whirlpool.

okay, so after all that, has anybody tried this? His results, posted on advanced aquarist (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature), sound promising.

[NaClFinatic]

That was a great article. But I was wondering about always having the flow on the corals in the same direction. I forget if there was anything like that in that article or not. (I read it when it came out.)

I think I was listening to a talk by Borneman on oxygen from IMAC a few years ago (available on their website to download) and it mentioned that having the flow in one direction causes the coral to grow differently because one side is better oxygenated.

Anyway I think the gyre is a great way to get good flow, but I would like to have enough pumps or a way to switch the direction occasionally.

[ReeferLogan]

how would one go about creating bi-directional gyre motion? doubling the number of powerheads doesn't seem cost effective...

[Astrivian]

how would one go about creating bi-directional gyre motion? doubling the number of powerheads doesn't seem cost effective...

I agree. I wonder if a closed loop would be easier for this and using something like a SQWD to change the flow.

[Mr. Tang]

I would like to use a two way squid on my cl. I would like to be able to pump at least 1200 gph thru four outlets. What do you guys think?

[NaClFinatic]

I guess a squid might do enough volume, but the switching is way to fast for the gyre effect. I think you need a good steady flow for at least a few minutes to get the good circular flow going. And then keep it going for a while before changing it.

[Mr. Tang]

so would a 4 way slow it down more or should I look for something different?

[NaClFinatic]

I have heard SCWDs work great for alternating current as long as you keep them cleaned so they don't bind up.

However the more water you put through them the faster it changes direction. So I don't think it is a long enough period to create a good gyre effect if that is what you want. (It might be up to two minutes with very low flow)

For an alternating gyre, I'm thinking maybe the closed loop as mentioned by Astrivarian. You could do two closed loops run by two alternating pumps. I would think the period for each pump would be a half hour or more. Make sure the pumps are made to handle the on/off cycles. Some will wear out faster.

[CarmieJo]

Hi ReeferLogan and :welcome: to TR.