can you start a cycle in a new tank with shrimp when there is nothing alive in the tank
ie.. live sand, live rock?

you dont wanna kill the little shrimp do u? just j/k but if you add shrimp during the cycle it is not likely to survive. you need to wait until nh3/4 no2/3 are all at 0 before that you shouldnt add anything. patience is essential at this stage because the shrimp has to be fed you are adding nutrients to the tank when they are unable to handle them and by they i mean the bacteria.

Justin,

Are you talking about a live marine shrimp or a frozen shrimp to start the cycle?

im assuming you mean the table shrimp method i talk about here and on the show..

you "can" but the problem is you need the sand and rock for the growing bacteria to colonize. it would not be very effective with out sand or rock

yes im sorry i guess i should have been a little more specific...
table shrimp, cocktale shrimp what evere you want to call it...

so there should be some live sand or live rock?

How would you go about starting the cycle when there is nothing in there?

this is my fathers tank he is setting up a fish only with fake rock and decorations.

Should i tell him to add some live sand?

there is regular sand already in there "crushed coral i belive" but its not live

I've used table shrimp and then started using pure ammonia.

Yeah, pure ammonia is a very good method, but be sure to measure the correct doses every day and don't miss one time.
Another method of cycling tanks is to use one of the many commercial starter cultures availabe.
Ex: Biospira by Marineland Labs is supposed to cycle it in "just 3 days" but still a good place to start.

It is tradition to eat that shrimp 4 days after it has been introduced to your tank.

tasty! nothing wrong with a little extra sodium in your diet

Cold Shrimp? Yuck! Put it in the microwave first!

I don't think the sand has to be alive for the bacteria to colonize. I believe the sand is just a medium for the colonization. Kind of like a place to live and grow. Therefore, rthe crushed coral may be ok. Am I right here guys?

Duane, that is what I was going to say. I think as long as there is some place for the bacteria to colonize, dead sand or base rock should be fine.

I agree - bacteria need surface area to colonize otherwise they get suspended in the water and you'll end up with one enormous foggy tank. Also, kudos to you for going with thte table shrimp to start the cycle as opposed to some little critter like a damsel. I am happy to see people moving away from this practice.

I honestly haven't heard of peeps cycling their tanks with live fish in a long time.... it is still common practice? I deal more with a seahorse forum and wasn't sure if the fishless cycle was more prominent in these specific tanks.

Renee...

Yes, sadly enough, it is still practiced. I heard an LFS moron promoting the blue damsels as the "BEST cycle fish, bullet proof etc." just the other day.

Sad stuff eh!? When I hear that, I sometimes offer to go visit and show them alternative solutions to starting the cycle...one of which (if they get "uppidy") includes the use of ammonia, but I'm NOT going to divulge the source ;)

D

one of which (if they get "uppidy") includes the use of ammonia, but I'm NOT going to divulge the source ;)

*trieds to get the image out of her head*

I'm on too many meds so I had to go BUY mine. Finding pure ammonia can be a very difficult task. But if anyone's ever looking for some, put a shout out to your area and I bet someone will know where to find it.

Strange, I was just at my LFS (the one that I hate, if you've seen my other posts) to get a cleanup crew for my tank, since its just finishing its cycle (YAY!), and the dude there asked what I had in the tank to cycle it, and told him about my dead coral that came on the LR (it was uncured, apprently...) and the dead shrimp, and he told me that I needed a live fish to cycle the tank, and that my tank hadn't cycled yet. Of course, I've been testing for the last month, and the cycle has gone through nicely... this guy was a moron. He told me to get a few blue damsels to cycle the tank, and, since the cycles done anyway and they're cute, I decided to get them. Still... its frusterating having conversations with people like that.

You've got to be kidding me.......!

I love idiot fish store stories! We need a forum for them, that would be cool!

That would be an endless thread. Hilarious at times and ultimately sad. I could right a book dating back 60 years.

That would be an endless thread. Hilarious at times and ultimately sad. I could right a book dating back 60 years.
Didn't know that was glass to make aquariums back in your days. :D

On a serious note, you are right, there have been funny stories as long a there has been a fish hobby. Sometimes the folks involved mean well, they are just not informed or are old-fashioned. I have an "old fart" friend (not you, Amp.....though you are old are is my friend) that is a far better than I am in keeping fish, but he has so many old-fashioned and outdated ideas. I don't dare argue with him, his success in undisputed............but the man still insist on UG filters and sun drying all his equipment. He insist on breaking down his tanks every two years and replacing it with a new one because his experience from years ago tell him that tanks will leak after a couple of years. :wow:

Thank you for all the replies...

I figured it would be ok just maken sure

Thank you for all the replies...

I figured it would be ok just maken sure
As long as you have eaten that shrimp on the fourth day, everything should be good. :cool:

yeah thats like one of the LFS owners i used to frequent up in the hills. His tanks have never seen the likes of a protein skimmer in their life, old fart ways that still work well. Cause its purly common sence that privailes, not the up to date tactics deployed in our ever changing worlds. So success back then still translates to success today!

Shrimps or rather my speak.....Prawns belong on the BBQ, not as an agent for decay IMO

Gotta love that advice....

Oh...and those fish are mean lil' turds.. you are NOW OWNED by them :) Thank your LFS for that...when you are trying to get them out of your system and they humble you by making more moves than Michael Jordan on a bad night ;)

D

Yeah, they're pretty.... uh... hyper. When I had them in the tupperware for acclimation they both jumped out. Had to put a lid on it... stupid damsels... Its cool how they change colors when you feed them and stuff.

Its cool how they change colors when you feed them and stuff.

Oooh wait till you see them grow horns when you put any other fish in your system ;)

D

ha, you know i took that statement literally there for a sec, Horns as in satans little helpers.:up: Schooling & chasing types behave better in the company of others that dont threaten the command structure or eat them, ether way both in a sick way are fun to watch:wow:

All this reminds me, a few months ago a family in Fishpros was in indecision over what fish to get for their tank. They were looking at some Jack Dempseys and some tetras, I can't remember, but I think they were neons. Well anyways, I asked them what kind of tank they were setting up to give my own reccomendation because CLEARLY they needed it. Well the mother promptly answered "freshwater".

It just really frustrates me when the buyer is in total darkness on the hobby and hasn't done their research. Could they possibly be anymore specific? It just really makes me concious that we really need to do our part and thouroughly research our purchases before buy them.

I broke it to the family very gently that Jack Dempseys will eat Neon Tetras. I knew right away that they wouldn't really get that these two fish also come from completely seperate areas, and the water chemistry they require is just completely uncompatible.

But at least they were in FishPros where they might get good advice and not Wal-mart where the clerk doesn't have a clue!

But at least they were in FishPros where they might get good advice and not Wal-mart where the clerk doesn't have a clue!
Nemo in a fishbowl was a good seller. :(

Oooh wait till you see them grow horns when you put any other fish in your system ;)

D

Wow, I see what you mean... I just put my new lawnmower blenny in the tank... the stupid damsels won't leave him be.

Are they gonna be a big problem like that, or will they get used to him? Should I think about not having the damsels?

I have one damsel. I am still hoping the eel will eat it. This fish attacks me anytime I stick my arm in the tank. Not that the bites hurt but burning my elbow on the MH does. I swear I will never buy another damsel or one of their clownfish cousins again.

I loved mine so much I put it in with the mantis :D

They became friends.... that was NOT my intention.

BOL! That's gotta be one tough as nails damsel there Renee!!

Ocelot.. statistically, you are probably going to have problems with them. I know of only 20% or fewer success stories where the "first in" damsels did not harass other fish as they were introduced.

I just don't trust most common damsels...their just plain ol' mean. More "trouble" per gram of flesh than a Great White!

Dave

yeah but there hardy as $%# , and orsome for any new comer to be able to withstand the noobies learning curve. So their not all bad. Besides the ninjia aspect all in all, they are not bad. Just got the case of little dog sindrome

BOL! That's gotta be one tough as nails damsel there Renee!!

He stayed in the same cave as the mantis.... right next to each other!