Demo CD's

[Rob]

Hello Talkingreef forum readers, stalkers, or lurkers..
I am once again reaching out looking for your assistance.

i am currently looking to gather a few of the Podcast episodes to place on CD to be freely given out at a LFS. the idea is to great a best of, or a teaser CD.

the idea is that hobbyists can stop in, when they are buying there goods from the LFS they can "take one".

hopeful it will help more people gain information, and education from the podcasts, and to join our community. i look at is as both marketing and a public service :D

in the beginning this will be controlled release to a few stores, if you are interested in burning and distributing some discs, please PM or email me

so again, please take a moment to recommend your favorite show, shows that are full of good info, and show the best of The Talkingreef Podcast

[Amphibious]

Great idea Rob! There's no wonder you are the Leader!!!

I could burn some and distribute down here in FL.

[Rob]

thanks Dick, when i get the episodes and other details together i will get a hold of you

[gwen_o_lyn]

It's a great idea but I wonder what the LFS owners will think. I tend to think owners don't want their customers on the internet because once a customer discovers the "reef world of the internet" they potentially lose a lot of business. Once I learned of the "reef world of the internet" I figured out how to get free frags, great deals on a cleanup crew, much better prices on dry goods, group buys, etc. I wasn't so dependent on my LFS for everything- ya know?

Does anyone else find that the LFS's try to hold out on informing their customers about the internet? When I meet someone at a LFS, the first thing I do is tell them to go online and join a forum and LEARN!! :)

I'm all for it, but I'd hate to see the CD's not given out, ya know? Opinions?

I don't mean to sound so negative. I just want it to work.

[Rob]

gwen, you bring up some great points...
i know my LFS owners isnt thrilled with the internet, but its mostly because of all the bad press and BS info that is given out to people.
He has supported my by passing out little business cards in the past....

IMO, if the LFS is willing, i would like to let them, if there not, then oh well.. we find new LFS..

another idea was for me to post a list broken down my state that has agreed to distribute these discs, maybe a bit of free press for them.. :)

[Rob]

but anyways, what im really looking for here are "The Talkingreef Best of shows"

so please take a moment as post your favorite shows

[gwen_o_lyn]

I was thinking free advertising may help too. They may really bite that since it's a hard business and I'm sure they would love any free ads they can get. Maybe for every 5-10 people they get on our site and we track this by referrals, then they get one free ad or name mention. Also that LFS name stays under the users profile which is more advertising for them.

I can just pic me going to my fav LFS and the owner would say "oh that's great, of course we will pass them out" and the owner has to say that to be nice to their customer (me), but as soon as I walk out the door, the CD's are thrown under the counter. I wouldn't be offended; it's just business. We would have to drop these off at LFS's that we visit on a weekly basis to really find out if we are penetrating the market.

Offering them a benefit is the key here.

[CarmieJo]

My favorite LFS, Down Under, has their own website Down Under Saltwater Fish and Coral (http://www.downundersaltwater.com/main.htm) online store Down Under Saltwater Storefront (http://www.shopdownundersaltwater.com/servlet/StoreFront) and forums Down Under Saltwater Fish and Coral (http://www.downundersaltwater.com/forums.html) so I don't think that they are afraid of the internet. Of course this is the kind of store that gives good advice, quarentines their fish (for a few days), won't sell them if they aren't eating, won't sell a beginner a difficult or incompatible fish and sponsors frag swaps...

[wwest]

I like,

Nightviewing
Hobbyists Helping the hobby
Safegaurding
Coral Naming Myths

They ALL are my favorate but if i had to choose those would be the top 4 :)

[Rob]

thanks Wes...
anyone else have recommendations?

[wildeone]

I think I could get Phishy Business, the most popular reef store in Columbus to distribute. Let me know what I need to do to get them a sample copy to review.

Also, I think something on the cycle (always confusing to newcomers) would be a good one.

[CarmieJo]

How about Basics of Light?

[DJGonzo69]

Hey Rob..let me know if you need some help with burning CD's. I have a 7 bay duplicator & also can print on the CD's directly instead of using a sticker on the CD-R. I can print 7 at a time. Just give me a high res logo of TR & I can use that as the art work.

-John

[JustDavidP]

I'm thinking you should excerpt a couple minutes of the "beginner level" topics like setting up and cycling...and roll into some more advanced topics or even toss in a few "coolio" clips and such.

Dave

[Seahorsedreams]

another idea was for me to post a list broken down my state that has agreed to distribute these discs, maybe a bit of free press for them.. :)

Any stores for the south bay California area?

[JR Aquatics]

Rob, I think the kalk and phyto shows are priceless. I know there videocasts but anyone that ever asks or is curious about these issues; I always recomend these shows. Most reefer by me think that kalk dosing and phyto culturing are too advanced untill they see your video cast. The protein skimmer one is one of my favorites too. Maybe you should do a series of CDs. One on:
Lighting
Filtration
coral foods
newbe stuff
etc.


Don't forget to place a link in the cd to TR.

[Rob]

ok, well im going to still with a simple CD now, i dont want to get into a load of editing and cuts just yet, i want to see how this works first, especially since its going to be a freebee

so the list is
Audio
1. Nitrogen Cycle
2. skimmers
3. Nightviewing
4. Hobbyists Helping the hobby
5. Safegaurding
6. Coral Naming Myths
7. Basics of light

Video
1. Phyto
2. Kalk


any other recommendations?

[CarmieJo]

Safeguarding makes me remember that Power Outages was good too. The problem is that they are all my favorites!

[V]

i remember talking about this a year ago rob. good to see the gears are turning my friend for revenue.

[Rob]

yes, its something i have wanted to do, but needed to get a bit more content under my belt.
now that we are approaching 100 episodes (man.. i cant even believe that) i think we have enough for this.. :)

[BrianPlankis]

I think many of those on the list are good choices...well except for numbers 3 and 4, that guy just wouldn't shut up...oh wait...that was me :)

Seriously, nightviewing is cool, but may not be essential to hobbyists starting out. I would suggest that this CD be focused on the most critical issues facing new hobbyists that just purchased their complete tank setup from the LFS.

So do you have a single show on why the canister filter, wet/dry, bioballs and seaclone skimmer they just purchased are nearly worthless? :rotfl: OK, I'm joking, the good LFS don't do that.

I think many new hobbyists are suffering from information overload, make quick purchases with little or no research (listening to a LFS employee is not research in many cases) and purchase inappropriate animals or equipment.

So the CD could contain information that will address a lot of these critical needs: developing good husbandry, avoiding bad purchases, learning to get info from multiple sources and minimizing livestock losses.

I would recommend putting the shows in order of importance and grouping them by the major goals, so I would suggest this:

Audio:

Get yer info from multiple sources before purchasing:
1. Skeptical Aquarist with Eric Borneman
2. Hobbyists Helping the Hobby

Husbandry and Good Purchases:
1. Basics of light
2. Nitrogen Cycle
3. Safeguarding
5. skimmers
6. Selecting your fist fish and acclimation - and fix the typo before burning :)
OR
Selecting and purchasing fish

Minimizing livestock losses:
1. Anemones
2. Goniopora
3. Cyanide usage and its effects
4. Zero impact reef

Video
1. Phyto
2. Kalk

That would be my long-winded suggestions :)

I have not listened to this show, so can't comment:
6. Coral Naming Myths

Brian

PS. On second thought...just put all of them on the CD :)

[V]

U long winded B@$tard, thats quite a list, well done squiddy.You amaze me sometimes brian, you really like to think about things in general dont you>
I'll have to include the crappy write laws for the Fosters Girls holding up that TR Banner, thats almost a must!:eek:

[fat walrus]

Brian, your comments about the canister filter, wet/dry filter, and Seaclone is a bit off mark. Good LFS has to carry them, it is what they recommend and promote that is the true difference. I myself is a business man and this is what I see. Everyone, including online venders carry those items and have claims and recommendations for all of them.

Example:
If every online vendor (Marine Depot, Drs F & S, and others), as well as the mass market stores (Petco, Petsmart, Walmart) carried them, how do you blame a LFS for trying to stay competetive? The fault is the media-driven or price sensitive consumer, not the LFS. There are many, many more people that have bought a Seaclone from an online vendor than a LFS, so how do anyone complain about the online vendor giving bad advice, or selling junk? The blame always goes to the LFS that were unable to convince the hobbyist to spend the extra dollars that that he may not have had at the time. The end result is that there are a large core of consumers that purchase inferior equipment and find it easier to blame others than to admit they erred on the side of being cheap. I say this because I am a businessman and can relate, and also because I saw this very scenario with my own eyes. I recommended a friend to shop at my LFS, the guy ended up buying a canister filter and a Seaclone. It turns out that that my friend had a used tank with no built-in overflow, the tank was going into his baby's room so he insisted on minimum noise and had no intention of keeping corals. A canister was a good recommendation. Shortly after that, my friend purchased a coral online. Somewhere along the line, someone else told him he needed a protein skimmer. His online research recommended a Seaclone based on his tank configuration and budget. He goes back to the LFS and and against the owner's recommendation settled for a Seaclone. It angers me to this day that he accuse the store of "ripping him off with the canister filter and Seaclone".

[George]

Rob,

Great idea, though I agree with Gwen that it might be a hard sell to the LFS. On the other hand, stores carry magazines and books with alternate advice that contain references and ads for online sales and sources that don't make their version look terribly attractive already. I've had a few (albeit rare) ocasions over the years of using a store's book rack to fill in a gap in an employee's knowledge. The most arduous was convincing one LFS that a "hydroid" was indeed an actual marine organism and it was causing me grief.

On the subject of swaying people away from "bad" equipment:

Be careful bringing up specific products without some sort of testing to back up your assertion if it's going to become official Talking Reef word. Companies take a very, very dim view of unbacked assertions by accepted "authorities" such as Rob, even on a small scale. Sounds silly (and I'm sure I'll get blasted), but a few calls to site sponsors later and Rob can't pay his bandwidth bill.

[doctorthompson]

Refugium episode should be on every CD... twice. :)

[JustDavidP]

:blush: I like that one too :rolleyes:

[Rob]

thanks guys,
lets hear any other suggestions

lets also keep the commentary to a minimum, i want to discuss the CD here, not the detail of LFS practices of selling equipment, please feel free to star a new thread for that

[wwest]

IMO, It might take some time but if you could edit, i don't know maybe 5-10 diferent episodes and fade from one question or subject to another without airing the answer Shake it up a little. start with an advance questions, then a simple questions, then a medium question. or something like that. That way the listener will hear a verity of what talking reef is all about. If they are an expert or a newbie they will understand whats going on.. But like i said it might take some time to edit the shows into one 30 minute show though..

[JustDavidP]

Wes...dude...that is exactly what we need... a "teaser". Edit in some good questions...the beginnings of the answer...maybe even the answer to some "basic stuff" and then lead them to the product for more...

Hmmm...I knew we'd not go wrong sticking you in a position of power ;)

D

[Rob]

well, im not sure i want to go through that much work just yet..
i was thinking about cutting some stuff together..

the idea is to record intro, explaining what we are, what were about, and out main mission. the go into a brief description of the first episode, then play it, then an intro to the second episode and play that, etc.

each episode will be edited so the time sensitive commentary before and after the show topic is removed, each topic/episode will have an intro, and the CD will end with how you subscribe to the show to get the rest of them.. :)

the best thing i can cup up with is to post that CD as an ISO image and people can download that image to burn and distribute as they desire.

i guess the next question is do i create and the CD in CD Audio (to play in any CD player), or MP3?

[Rob]

i think for the teaser part. the intro commentary can mention a lot of the other shows.
example "you just listen to basics of light, got more info we have shows on MH, Reflectors, etc."

i want to accomplish two things here.
im not actually "selling" a product for money, i am selling it in the sense i want them to come and get more. so i want to give them a full understanding of the quality of content they can expect, also i want to give them a resource that is very helpful even if they dont come to the site for more. my overall goal is and always has to simple make people more educated, nothing more.. :)
besides,it might be hard for them to find the one show, and the right time in that one show where they can get that one question answered, it might prove to be more frustrating than helpful.

think if you wanted to re-listen to one question and its answer.. how long would it take you to find the right part of the right show... and you even familiar with it.. ;)

[George]

i guess the next question is do i create and the CD in CD Audio (to play in any CD player), or MP3?
You can do both on the same CD. I have game CD's that have data (obviously) and will play the game soundtracks in regular CD players. Quake, for one, has a nice Trent Reznor soundtrack and Redneck Rampage had the same thing.

[Rob]

yes, good point.. :) thanks
i can do the edited part in CD audio, and even include the entire original shows in MP3 since MP3 files are MUCH smaller than CDA files.. :)

[kimmyd55]

Being new to all of this one episode that i found very informative was on the importance of DSBs. As a complete novice, it gave me some insight on the process of natural filtration. Thanks.

[BrianPlankis]

Brian, your comments about the canister filter, wet/dry filter, and Seaclone is a bit off mark. Good LFS has to carry them, it is what they recommend and promote that is the true difference. I myself is a business man and this is what I see. Everyone, including online venders carry those items and have claims and recommendations for all of them.


Fat walrus (you have me at a disadvantage, I don't know your first name?),

I agree with almost everything you said, the only thing I disagree with is the LFS HAVING to carry them and that Everyone does carry them. Everyone does not carry them and they can make a choice not too and I've seen many good ones that do no carry Seaclones or Rio pumps and I look at that as a first indication of a good store (talking to the staff and noting husbandry is next). Canister filters and wet/dry filters do have their places, but typically not for a reef tank.

LFS are not always to blame, hobbyists not taking the time to research definitely have to share some of the blame (sometimes the majority of the blame), as well as the online stores and websites that promote items that are lousy as great products. In Eric Borneman's skeptical aquarist podcast he mentions the best hobbyists that are successful in the long run are the ones that take the time to research. This is why I think that is a critical podcast to include. It is also a tremendous amount of information for a new hobbyist to take in and it is difficult to distinguish when starting out what are reliable sites and unreliable sites (both online and offline).

I think every hobbyist is bound to go through this process no matter how much they research, especially with many sources appearing reputable when they are not. As for your example where the guy still blames the LFS for the bad purchases, well, it takes a big person to admit it was their lack of research could have been part of the cause. Not much you can do in that situation.

I think this is where Rob's CD is so critical, if it can be distributed and contain a selection of podcasts that at least partially address this issue, then he will be doing a great service to the hobby. Some hobbyists don't want to hear you need to research and avoid some cheap products (some cheap products are great!), so they don't listen, but I think the more experienced hobbyists (aka Rob and his guests) need to say it and try to get the message out there to counteract the other messages that do not have the hobbyists best interests in mind.

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

U long winded B@$tard, thats quite a list, well done squiddy.You amaze me sometimes brian, you really like to think about things in general dont you>
I'll have to include the crappy write laws for the Fosters Girls holding up that TR Banner, thats almost a must!:eek:

Thanks for the complement. I do like to think about things, especially when animal's lives are at stake....must....refrain....from....another....lon g....post :D

Brian

[Amphibious]

Fat walrus (you have me at a disadvantage, I don't know your first name?),Well, you can call him Wally, or you can call him Blubber, but, don't you dare call him late for supper. :rotfl: :p :up:

[Rob]

ok, folks, as much as i love the debate...
at this point i ask that you refrain from discussion not related to the Demo CD

please post off topic comments into a new thread

i have to go back through this thread to gather info and it makes it hard to sort through things.

Brian, and Blub
please dont take it personal, as its not.
i do think the big picture is important, and your comments are valid, i just want to keep this thread a bit more focused thats all.. thanks.. :)

[doctorthompson]

I'd probably want to select different types of episodes for a CD destined to be given away near the cash register at a big, newbie-frequented, retail pet store chain versus a CD that was going to be offered at a small local "reef-only" specialty shop catering to advanced aquarists -- and different selections again for discs to give out at the local aquarium club or regional frag swap.

It would be cool if we also have the option to download 'generic' TR cover art and insert graphics from the website; for those people who want to (and are very willing to) burn batches of discs to give away that have their own personal episode selections.

[wildeone]

i spoke to Serdar of PhishyBusiness (http://www.phishybusiness.com) my LFS) tonight and he had not heard of the site, but was interested. My example was the Nitrogen Cycle and how confusing it is to newbies. I explained what the show was, that the CD's were not for sale, but to be given out. I told him I would get him a few shows to listen to. We then discussed about the mass amounts of miss information that is out there and we were both on the same page that good info is good in this hobby, and bad info damages it.

[Rob]

awesome, thanks for talking to them, hopefully in the next few weeks i can get this project underway

[bklynmet]

What'll keep LFS from charging the customer for the CD?

[Amphibious]

A statement on the label that says, "Free Take One" or something like that.

[Rob]

yes, good point, i had not thought about that, i will make sure we do something for that

[V]

i say let them charge, cause the links on the CD to the website will show the sites info is free through any listening media, & it'll expose the LFS for being too money hungry, Hence loss of business from any self respecting person with a brain. Cause & Effect babe.

Rob, getting it into LFS is a great idea, But buddy, Try tackleing an edditor or two from the Aquarium Mags. Mass exposure my friend.
Only down side is start up cash to supply a set quote based on sales figures. If your a smart thinker Rob you could offset a larger portion of the cost under the "promotions banner" with current & future partners. All of which will have vested interests with CD promotion & futher more the extra foot traffic through the site for exposure. Plus i dont know what your laws are over there, but isn't it about time TR became a business with proper claims to the tax man, Instead of justerfied claims to the wife..lol

just a thought!

[Reefbaby]

Rob - I think having both mp3 and CD audio would be beneficial. I would love to give these CDs to my LFS, but I know that a lot of people still don't regularly listen to mp3-sourced music or audio. I think it would be most beneficial if people could just pop it into their car stereo.
Having said that, if they would rather have the mp3s, then they're probably computer savvy enough to get to the website to download the files. Maybe you could have an extra comment somewhere saying that there are many many more shows featured on the website....

okay...my list: (not necessarily in any order)
Filtration
Selecting and Purchasing Fish
Selecting Healthy Coral
Substrate Part 1 & 2
Basics of Light
Cycling
Refugiums

and then for the more advanced:
Phytoculturing
Rotiferculturing
DIY Kalk
Plumbing basics
Hatching Brine Shrimp

Others;
Aquarium Photography
Power Outages


I think it's really important to show how diverse the podcasts really are. You cover a lot of information in these 100 shows! From basic reef set-up techniques to coral spawning. So, I think it's good to put a little of everything so that you can reach all crowds.

I love the idea and I'll talk with my LFS about it tomorrow!

[CarmieJo]

I posted this (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/site-info-news/324-easy-ways-you-can-help-tr-podcast-3.html#post38067) in the Easy Ways to Help TR but thne I decided it needs to go here as well.

[Reefbaby]

Hey Rob - I spoke with my LFS last night and he said "Great!" So....just let me know when they're ready! :D

[JustDavidP]

My LFS has plans to close my local store and consolidate with his other store, 20 miles away :( In any case, there is a LARGE LFS in Framingham, MA with a great marine section. I'll see what I can do there.

Dave

[Paintbug]

so what is the status of these demo CDs? i would be interested in giving them out at one of my clubs meetings. even talking to the LFS to give them out. anything to help this place!!

[Rob]

Paintbug,
They are not ready yet, but i will make an announcement when they are, thanks for the interest and support.. :)

[lcstorc]

My favorite lfs is very net friendly and would likely be willing to hand them out particulasrly with the purchase of a new set-up. Meanwhile I would love to have one to listen to on my car cd player. Great idea but I am still too new here to recommend any specific topics. The more knowledge the new hobbyist has the better for the livestock.

[Marc]

Hey Rob,
Great idea the more I see things around here the more I like the thinking (and feeling).
I'm not sure if this fits into your distribution plan but, I will be exhibiting at NERAC again this year as well as MACNA, If you are interested Id be happy to do a small display/ rack with a sign etc???

Marc

[CarmieJo]

Rob, my club is having our big Workshop in Feb. While the club is probably 2/3 FW the first 1/2 day is all SW. It isn't a super big conference but it attracts people from at least 3 states.

[Rob]

thanks guys..

here is an update, i am about done with the formating and layout of how im going to produce the CD (at least on paper).
I have the list of shows that are going on (will post this list for everyone)

my plan is to get this CD produced by the end of the month..

it will be in ISO format, in which you will download and burn to CD. i am going to try and get a CD label design done for those that can print to CD's.

i dont really have any way of doing mass burning and printing, so if you are in an area and a situation where you can do mass burning, printing, and distribution, i will pay for the blank discs.. :) just email me

(BTW, by "mass" i mean 50 to a couple hundred, whatever you can do. then just be able to distribute them or ship them to other people locally that will distribute them.)