Couple critters in my sump

[Scott]

Thought I'd share a few pics of some critters in my sump. I setup a 20gal long as a sump around 3 weeks ago, added 20lbs of live sand and moved a couple live rocks into it. Not long after that I started seeing some small critters show up.

Here's a pic of a worm on the glass, pretty small as the thermometer shows.

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/worm.jpg


Since setting it up, once the lights go off in the main tank and the light turns on in the sump I just sit there looking at what's in there. Well tonight I noticed these...I've counted around six of them so far. I'm guessing they are some type of slug....don't know if they might have come in with some Cheato that I bought off of ebay or not. I put that Cheato in the sump on Monday.

Anyways...the pics are not the greatest, I'm so glad I have a digital camera...so many shots were out of focus, these were the best.

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/slugs.jpg

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/slug1.jpg

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/slug2.jpg

They are still very small...but I'm wondering, could they be harmful if they make it up to the display tank?

[Rob]

i am not sure waht the top picture is, it looks like a small bristle worm. but i cant be sure, i usually dont see them that small.

however, the bottom few pictures closely resemble the planaria flatworm.
i woudl do some serches, and find some other images to match them to, wetwebmedia woudl be a great place to start.

you DO NOT want them in your display. while they are not dangerous, they are a REAL nuisance. seriously.. i have delt with them before, they are all but impossible to totally get rid of..

dont want to scare ya, but definitely check it out

[Scott]

however, the bottom few pictures closely resemble the planaria flatworm.
i woudl do some serches, and find some other images to match them to, wetwebmedia woudl be a great place to start.

you DO NOT want them in your display. while they are not dangerous, they are a REAL nuisance. seriously.. i have delt with them before, they are all but impossible to totally get rid of..

Thanks Rob for the identification.

Was over at another site's forum and someone had posted some pics off their site of some fish. I went over to their site to check out their other pictures, and found a pic that makes me agree with you....flatworm.

http://www.pbase.com/clippo/image/54110407

I also took a look at a book I have "Marine Inverterbrates" and sure enough...there it is, Planaria Flatworm just like you guessed. I looked at snails and slugs before posting, never thought of flatworms.

Now comes the searches on how to get rid of them. I'm really thinking they came in on the cheato I got off of e-bay. Unless they were in my display and moved down to the sump when I moved some rock....but I have my doubts about that.

Book mentions cutting down on light and feeding, since they are in the sump....I might kill the light down there for a day or two. ...and maybe attempt siphoning some out that I actually see....well, that might be a bit time consuming...

If they did make it to the dislpay....wonder if my neon dottyback would eat them. :D It's been digging in the corners of the tank trying to find some bristleworms I suspect.

[Rob]

here's my 2 cents...
disconnect and scrub the sump...
i know its drastic, but i have dealt with flatworms in a display they are not fun..

the problem is that they are not really harmful, unless they start to reproduce all over the place, in which case you have to worry about them smothering your corals. most professionals will say that they are fine, and the problem can be resolved with better husbandry.. but they are VERY unsightly...

my 2 cents.. get rid of them now before they get into your display... the dotty will likely not touch them. the sixline wrasse is known to eat them, and occasionally mandarins. but since you are somewhat lucky and there are in the sump, i would disconnect it, and plan to redo it...

if it was my tank, that's what i would do.

[Scott]

my 2 cents.. get rid of them now before they get into your display... the dotty will likely not touch them. the sixline wrasse is known to eat them, and occasionally mandarins. but since you are somewhat lucky and there are in the sump, i would disconnect it, and plan to redo it...

if it was my tank, that's what i would do.

I will seriously consider that....I read the same about the six line wrasse, and I put one on order today when I stopped by the LFS for some topoff water.

If I do scrub the sump....what are the thoughts about the live rock and live sand in there....reuse it or dump it?

I do hate the thought of redoing the sump....but I also hate the thought of the flatworms getting out of hand and in the display. I've got a good pod population going in the sump too. But then, I should probably just redo the entire display too....still dealing with hair algae there.

Guess this is one of the benifits of setting up a marine tank, all the things you might get to deal with. :rolleyes:

[Rob]

lol.. yeah...

well you can try and save as many of the pods ond water as you can.
they will be living in all the rocks, you can try dipping them in a bucket with flatworm exit in it to kill them.

i tried flatworm exit.. it kills alot of them and fast, but after 2 doses, i still had them in my tank.

the problem is when you kill the flatworms they excretes their body juices, and those juices are extremely poisonous. so i would try to dip the rocks seperate instead of dosing the tank..

you have a unique change where you can fix it with out disturbing your main display, thats a good thing

[Scott]

i tried flatworm exit.. it kills alot of them and fast, but after 2 doses, i still had them in my tank.

the problem is when you kill the flatworms they excretes their body juices, and those juices are extremely poisonous. so i would try to dip the rocks seperate instead of dosing the tank..

I've also thought about getting some of that, and just put it in the sump (after turning off the return pump)...and just cycle the sump by itself.

Wonder...would it kill all the pods? (then again, I'm thinking of dropping the wrasse in the sump when I get it...probably in a week or two) I also read a post elsewhere that it melted a few snails. I only have 1 snail and few hermits in the sump.

Of course, I probably would have never had this problem is I didn't decide to play and add a sump to my tank. I just thought it'd be better and I could put macro algae in it and hopefully get rid of the hair algae problem I had in the main tank. Plus, there'd be place to move the skimmer and heater to.



you have a unique change where you can fix it with out disturbing your main display, thats a good thing

well that all depends....if I should mention the other little problem(s)...

Like this guy....sadly they are in many many places in the tank, yeah...the little white guy.
http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/bad1.jpg

Not only a hair algae problem in the tank, but also bubble algae (not as bad as the hair algae...yet). No idea what the little red thing is....showed up over the past week.
http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/bubblealgae-and.jpg

These are similar to the little red one in the above photo, I have three of the brown ones on another rock. No idea what they are.
http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/coral-algae.jpg

I've tested my water, Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, all read 0. Phosphates read between .25 and .5 and I've been using some type of Phos-Ban for over a month. Calcium reads around 380, and I don't have a test kit for water hardness. I was bad in the beginning as I was using tap water for topoffs. But I've been strictly buying RO water for the past month.

....Oh, and I've got this foolish idea of one day buying a house and getting a big tank (100-200 gal).... :shock:

[pham411]

hey scott,
dont know what those red things are but that buble algae is really something great you want in you tank. as for that little white pod, i use to have those guys in my tank also. i did some reasearch on wwm and found that they are just little ilter feeders and arent harmfull. sorry i forgot what they were called. although they are not harmful they can get ugly cuz they do show up everywhere. now, they slowly disapeared. hmmm i wonder if thats because of something i did.......:confused:
latez

[Rob]

hey scott,
don't know what those red things are
i am no sure what they are either...
are they hard or soft, could be some type of sponge... but ant really tell from the image


but that bubble algae is really something great you want in you tank.
this i do not agree with, bubble algae is a nuisance algae, and can quickly over take a tank. especially if the bubble are popped, releasing the spores into he water column.
they will grow everywhere, covering coral, and doing bad things.
best to remove the bubbles.
you can take the rock out of the tank and scape them of.. then rise the rock and place it back in. do not try to pull them off in the tank cause if you pop them you will get even more.


as for that little white pod, i use to have those guys in my tank also. i did some research on wwm and found that they are just little filter feeders and arent harmful. sorry i forgot what they were called.
you are right here, they are filter feeders. the are called tunicates. they are small filter feeders. they usually grow in shaded areas and are nothing to worry about, they are quite normal.

regarding the cause.. its a water/nutrient issue... you have high nitrates im sure of it, and im sure the phosphates are adding to the issue. you are not reading nitrates on the tests, because all that algae in there is feeding off it.

best to continue large water changes regularly with RO water, and continue running the phosban. and also reduce the feeding frequency and ammount

you can also check out a product called Marine S.A.T. its a natural bacteria culture that will help with the algae, as it will starve it of its food source.

let me know if you have more questions

[pham411]

this i do not agree with, bubble algae is a nuisance algae, and can quickly over take a tank. especially if the bubble are popped, releasing the spores into he water column.

opps. hehe i ment not what you want in your tank. darn typoz. sorry guyz:D

[Rob]

lol.. ok.. as long as we are all on the same page.. :D

"bubble algae bad"...lol

[pham411]

i am no sure what they are either...
are they hard or soft, could be some type of sponge... but ant really tell from the image


regarding the cause.. its a water/nutrient issue... you have high nitrates im sure of it, and im sure the phosphates are adding to the issue. you are not reading nitrates on the tests, because all that algae in there is feeding off it.

best to continue large water changes regularly with RO water, and continue running the phosban. and also reduce the feeding frequency and ammount

let me know if you have more questions


ahh maybe thats why i dont see them anymore, i did have a nitrate problem a few months back. nitrates and phosphate levels were through the roof because i was using an undergravel filter. when i removed it all was back to normal in about 5-6 weeks. i knew that was going to require alot of work but in the end nitrites and phosphates were down, my little friends were happier and my wallet got bigger from all the frags i ended up with.:D

[pham411]

lol.. ok.. as long as we are all on the same page.. :D

"bubble algae bad"...lol


thats what i ment!!!! arr im such a newb;)

[pham411]

i think meleves site has some suggestions for the flat worms. i heard they can crash a tank if enough of them die in your tank. toxic

[Rob]

yes.. a crash can happen if you use flatworm eXit and dont do it properly...
again. they are a PITA to get rid of.

most people get the population down and just try to control them since they are so hard to get rid of.

the stuff at melevs site is about siphoning them out, and using flatworm exit on your display tank.

since you have them in your sump, i would drain the sump, and get them the heck outta there.

[Scott]

opps. hehe i ment not what you want in your tank. darn typoz. sorry guyz:D

LOL...I was wondering when I read they were "good". Was going to say that from what I've read bubble algae are bad. :)

[Scott]

i am no sure what they are either...
are they hard or soft, could be some type of sponge... but ant really tell from the image

Seemed to be soft, the brown ones huge the rock, almost like a second skin. The red one was a little different as it extended out past the rock pedestal it was on.


this i do not agree with, bubble algae is a nuisance algae, and can quickly over take a tank. especially if the bubble are popped, releasing the spores into he water column.
they will grow everywhere, covering coral, and doing bad things.
best to remove the bubbles.
you can take the rock out of the tank and scape them of.. then rise the rock and place it back in. do not try to pull them off in the tank cause if you pop them you will get even more.

That's what I've read too. Was too lazy to pull the rock out that they were the most concentrated on as I had two green stripped mushrooms on it. But about an hour ago I decided to go ahead and pull it. Took some time to get the mushrooms released from the rock. I'm sure they weren't too happy about it, but now they have a different rock to attach to. Turned one power head off so they don't blow around (had that happen before, ended up with two after one got sucked into a power head intake while I was at work).

I scraped the bubble algae off the rock, and rinsed it in tap water. It's in the sump now...will see if anything comes back.


you are right here, they are filter feeders. the are called tunicates. they are small filter feeders. they usually grow in shaded areas and are nothing to worry about, they are quite normal.

Ah, and I thought they were related to aptasia! Looks totally different than the tunicate I had before my hair algae bloom. Got a pic of it somewhere...



regarding the cause.. its a water/nutrient issue... you have high nitrates im sure of it, and im sure the phosphates are adding to the issue. you are not reading nitrates on the tests, because all that algae in there is feeding off it.

best to continue large water changes regularly with RO water, and continue running the phosban. and also reduce the feeding frequency and ammount

you can also check out a product called Marine S.A.T. its a natural bacteria culture that will help with the algae, as it will starve it of its food source.

let me know if you have more questions

I'll try and make another trip to LFS tomorrow for water for a change. I've been pulling the hair algae out by hand when I can. Cleaner shrimp has really warmed up to me due to this. Would always go hide when I put my hand in the tank before...now it makes a mad dash to my hand. It's the weirdest feeling to have it "cleaning" your hand and arm. I treated him yesterday, went in with a nice large piece of flake just for him. Jumped in my hand and sat there eating it. :-)

[Jimm]

The little white things with the crown of cilia look like "pineapple" sponges to me. I'm not sure of the scientific name. They are harmless filter feeders. If you are seeing a bunch of them growing where you didn't have any before it could mean you're having an excess nutrient problem.

[Scott]

The little white things with the crown of cilia look like "pineapple" sponges to me. I'm not sure of the scientific name. They are harmless filter feeders.

Jimm, Thanks for the ID. I did a quick search of "pineapple sponge" and sure enough I found a few others on the net with pics looking like what I got.

A link to one of the pics I found, I've seen two of mine get all fat like this one, most of mine are slim.
http://www.pirx.com/gallery/sponges/sponge02

I'm sure it's a pineapple sponge now, and not a tunicate. Looks like they disappear as a tank matures.....meaning I have a immature tank. :lol:


Hmm....now I wonder if I should take a pic of what's growing on one of my powerheads.....

[pham411]

whats growing on your powerhead?

[Scott]

whats growing on your powerhead?

hard to describe, and I don't think the pics I took are the greatest.

I know...algae covered. I put a snail on there just now, see if it even bothers to get rid of it.

It's the stuff that looks scaled and branching out. I'm not sure if they are some sort of sponge, or something entirely differrent. Only on the one hydor.

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/hydor.jpg

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/hydor1.jpg

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/hydor2.jpg

[pham411]

interesting, dunno what it is though.... could the branching things be some type of other algae? i have a type of branching coraline in my tank but looks nothing like that.
sorry no id dude.

[Scott]

No problem.....I think I'll pull the hydor out and clean it all off once the snail finishes up on the algae. With all the other things in the tank, I'll play the paranoid and just get rid of it.


As for the flatworms in the sump....I have some Flatworm eXit on order. As soon as it shows up, I'm disconnecting the sump and dosing it. I'll try and pick up another heater to put in the display if the temp starts to drop too far. Otherwise, after an hour I'll pull the heater out of the sump and rinse it...then put it in the display.

I also ordered some different test kits, a nitrate and phosphate from salifert. All the test kits I have (except for the phosphate) are currently from aquarium pharmaceuticals. The phosphate test kit is from hagen. I decided to order the salifert ones because it looked like they had much better accuracy for the range. my current nitrate kit has a reading for 0ppm and the next one is for 5ppm, then 10ppm, etc.

[Rob]

i have had good luck with the aquarium pharmaceuticals kits, but my favorite are the salifert ones.. they should do good for ya.
the hagens on the other hand, i would use them if they were free.. ;)

[Scott]

i have had good luck with the aquarium pharmaceuticals kits, but my favorite are the salifert ones.. they should do good for ya.
the hagens on the other hand, i would use them if they were free.. ;)

LOL...Those two brands are the only ones at LFS, and the only phosphate kit they had was the hagens one.

I've heard the brand of kit can make a difference, one shows nothing and another will show a reading. So I'm curious how the two kits will compare to each other for readings.

[Reefbaby]

Hey Scott, just wanted to give you my 2cents worth....

I had bought a porite coral with Xmas tree works before and didn't have a quarantine tank set up at the time, so it went straight into the display tank. Little did I know that there were some flatworms attached to that rock. They quickly multiplied and since I was a newbie at the time, I kind of watched them in amazement, not really sure what to do. After doing some research, I tried taking out the entire rock and scrubbing it with a tootbrush in a separate bucket with saltwater and shaking off all the planaria and rinsing it yet again in another bucket of saltwater. I kept doing this for several days and was able to keep the population from going completely out of control. By the way, they really really stink as well....another good identification marker!

In addition, I got myself a sixline wrasse and he quickly (!) exterminated the entire population and I've never seen them since. I was pretty relieved that I was able to do this all with no chemicals.

Your little white tunicate is harmless. I have a bunch of them on the backsides of rocks and they grow in my sump and even in my skimmer.....never a problem.

The brown layer on your rocks is also something that I've had in my tank. I had a more experienced reefer come over to my house to see what it was, because I couldn't find it ANYwhere in books. He thought it was a calcerous algae and I think I agree with him. It's a little more "rubbery" that the normal calcerous algaes and can be peeled off. I spent quite a lot of time with tweezers trying to pull the stuff off and at some time I just gave up. Over time, it has slowly gone away and has been replaced with pink and purple calcerous algae. I didn't necessarily like the look of it, but it was pretty harmless.....

Bubble algae.....tweezers are great for plucking them out from the base so that you don't pop the bubbles....


Good luck!!:-P

[Rob]

....By the way, they really really stink as well....another good identification marker!
OMG.. yes, they really stink....lol


In addition, I got myself a sixline wrasse and he quickly (!) exterminated the entire population and I've never seen them since. I was pretty relieved that I was able to do this all with no chemicals.

i have yet to have lick with my sixline, i am going to be getting a mandarin, to see how it does..

congrats on getting yours under control. i know many people that battle flatworms for a long time...

[Scott]

Hey Scott, just wanted to give you my 2cents worth....


Hi, glad to hear any advice or experience. :-)


I had bought a porite coral with Xmas tree works before and didn't have a quarantine tank set up at the time, so it went straight into the display tank. Little did I know that there were some flatworms attached to that rock.

Hmm....I don't have a quarantine tank either. I guess I trust my LFS to make sure they keep things long enough to show any problems. Granted, I still think it was the Cheato I got off of ebay. Should teach me to be more careful.


By the way, they really really stink as well....another good identification marker!

In addition, I got myself a sixline wrasse and he quickly (!) exterminated the entire population and I've never seen them since. I was pretty relieved that I was able to do this all with no chemicals.

Oh great....was the smell before or after they died? so far I haven't smelled anything coming from the tank....so I'm guessing the stink is the dead ones. I'll have to remember to move the air purifier over next to the tank when I start killing them LOL I do have a sixline wrasse on order through LFS, guessing it will be a week or two for the fish. I'm hoping I'll get my flatworm exit by the end of this week.



The brown layer on your rocks is also something that I've had in my tank. I had a more experienced reefer come over to my house to see what it was, because I couldn't find it ANYwhere in books. He thought it was a calcerous algae and I think I agree with him. It's a little more "rubbery" that the normal calcerous algaes and can be peeled off. I spent quite a lot of time with tweezers trying to pull the stuff off and at some time I just gave up. Over time, it has slowly gone away and has been replaced with pink and purple calcerous algae. I didn't necessarily like the look of it, but it was pretty harmless.....

I don't mind the look of them, glad to know that they are harmless. Thanks for the info. :-)


Bubble algae.....tweezers are great for plucking them out from the base so that you don't pop the bubbles....


Good luck!!:-P

I had pulled the rock out and was scraping them all off into the sink, I became glad I had my glasses on when I popped one and it sprayed me right in the face. If I see any more on the rocks in the tank, I'll remember that.

Thanks, I'll keep everyone posted on the flatwork issue.

[Reefbaby]

Hi Scott!

Re: the stench of flatworms - actually they stink while they're alive, but you won't smell them while they're in the tank. If you took a rock or coral or anything that they're attached to, then you'd get a nice whiff of them.....P U! :-)

[Scott]

Hi Scott!

Re: the stench of flatworms - actually they stink while they're alive, but you won't smell them while they're in the tank. If you took a rock or coral or anything that they're attached to, then you'd get a nice whiff of them.....P U! :-)

Ah....now I see.

Thanks for the heads up, at least now I can prepare for it.....well at least I will be expecting it and it won't be a total surprise.

[Rob]

flatworms will be discussed in the next show.. just a small insider tip.. :)

[JustDavidP]

The sponges are called Sycon sponges. They are harmless and their populations will wax and wane with the cycles of your system. Too many = too much nutrient load.

The Hydor is showing sponge growth latched onto fuzz that LOVES carbonate precip. Moving parts and heaters will show a lot of this DUST that needs to be cleaned from time to time or alga and sponge will take up residence.

The flatworms... ew... what to say there ...except don't fear the clear/translucent ones. They are common in sumps and fuges and are harmless and typically stay in check as far as numbers to. IF they are red, tan or otherwise opaque, you will have problems with corals etc.

Get rid of the valonia!! (Bubble algae) Read about it. Don't pop it in the system. Emerald (mythrax crabs can help somewhat, but manual removal is probably needed).

You also have bryopsis algae. Not much eats this. Manual removal or use of a sea hare would help.

The worm is a juvi segmented worm. Probably a bristle worm. I'll take him if you don't want em. I love them until they are about 4 inches long. Then I use them for striped bass fishing ;)

Dave

[pham411]

ewwww p-u

hahha

[Scott]

flatworms will be discussed in the next show.. just a small insider tip.. :)

nice...insider tip. :-)

[Scott]

The sponges are called Sycon sponges. They are harmless and their populations will wax and wane with the cycles of your system. Too many = too much nutrient load.

I'm glad to be hearing from others these things are harmless. ....well, other than a good indicator of a "too much nutrient load". I used to feed the fish once a day just a pinch of flake food....I'm not feeding the same amount every other day.


The Hydor is showing sponge growth latched onto fuzz that LOVES carbonate precip. Moving parts and heaters will show a lot of this DUST that needs to be cleaned from time to time or alga and sponge will take up residence.

As for the algae on the Hydor....the snail I put on there (how many days ago now...) is still there and has eaten almost all of that algae. Now, since the snail has done such a good job at cleaning up that algae...I can see those things much better...if it was a sponge, they are gone because when I look now...they got legs and antennea (looks like the pods I have running around in my sump).


The flatworms... ew... what to say there ...except don't fear the clear/translucent ones. They are common in sumps and fuges and are harmless and typically stay in check as far as numbers to. IF they are red, tan or otherwise opaque, you will have problems with corals etc.

Well there were some clear/translucent ones....but I also see some that look red (really, really small...maybe those will go clear when they get a little larger). But my shipment should be in this week.....so I may just dose the sump anyhow.


Get rid of the valonia!! (Bubble algae) Read about it. Don't pop it in the system. Emerald (mythrax crabs can help somewhat, but manual removal is probably needed).

So far the tank is looking better, after I removed that one rock and got rid of them. Haven't seen any come back on the rock yet, it's sitting in the sump right now.


You also have bryopsis algae. Not much eats this. Manual removal or use of a sea hare would help.

Guessing that's my grass lawn. LOL I've been pulling it out when I can...bummer is, it's still growing in the display but it's totally gone from the sump. I'm sure after more time I will get rid of the grass....and end up with a nice clean tank once again. :-)


The worm is a juvi segmented worm. Probably a bristle worm. I'll take him if you don't want em. I love them until they are about 4 inches long. Then I use them for striped bass fishing ;)

Dave

Well, there are many of them in the sump on the glass. I'm sure my neon dottyback would have a field day if I placed it in the sump. :-)

using them for bait....LOL....that's great! hahaha

Thanks for the reply Dave.

Scott

[Scott]

The flatworm extermination has (finally) begun...

I turned off the return pump and have dosed the sump with flatworm exit. Will see how long this takes. I have 5 gal standing by for a water change before turning the return pump back on. I also have some carbon standing by that I'll toss in there too.

[Rob]

you should see it start working with in minutes...
i would also drop a few powerheads in there to get it moving around alot...

good luck to you

[Scott]

well, let it sit in the sump with some extra flow for a few hours. pulled 4 gallons out of the sump and replaced with new water.

turned on the return and saw a bunch show up in the display. Don't know if they were already in there and just showed up in the water column because of the chems in the sump....or if they got pushed up.

sucked as many out as I could with some airline tubing and my aqualifter pump. But even after doing that for some time there's still a few left floating around. Too hard to tell if they are dead or alive.

Will see how things are tomorrow...and if need be I'll get some more water and try it again.

hopefully the wrasse will feel a little better tomorrow, spooked it when I was sucking up the flatworms. Maybe it'll even do me a favor and eat a few (if the dottyback will let it roam around the tank).