Rob, Matt and the Talkingreef community, I just found about your podcasts a few days ago, I decided to download all of them and start hearing them on my way to work, I think I am at #19… I’m driving about 80 miles a day for the last couple of days ;). I found the podcasts and this forum very informative, as you said as a beginner (me) some time its difficult to get the right information, but your information its practical and easy to understand.

I do have several question so far, I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors (my English is not that good).

My System (see photos).

144 Gal. Tank
Oceanic Sump
Turbo-Sea 790P Pump (coralife) 790GPH
Turbo-Twist 3X UV Sterilizer (coralife)
Super Skimmer (coralife) for 125gal  (needle wheel)
2 HQI metal halide (hang-on) 150W, 20,000K
24” compact fluorescent (1 True Actinic 65W, 1 10,000k 65W)
Fan

18

19

20

This is my first Reef / Saltwater tank, I set it up the first week of December, and I believe it finished the cycle last week, I don’t know exactly what kind of corals I will put in yet, probably easy to keep ones at the beginning and as time comes will see if I can go with more challenging ones. I just add 2 fire goby and a few snails, they seem to be doing fine.

Ok, my questions (most are from the past episodes)

1. Circulation: the pump that I have pumps 725gph at 4 feet overhead, to be safe I will say 700 gph in my setup, I also have 3 powerheads (hagen) they pump 270gph each (all on the back left, center, right pointing at middle front area), the main pump also feed my UV (I put a ball valve to regulate the flow) I will say that takes about ¼ of the flow (525 remaining), If my calculations are right my tank is circulating 1,335 GPH (9 times per hour).I thought this was more than enough (it seems to have a nice flow) until I hear you say go for 15 to 20 times… I was in shock!.
a. Will the 15 to 20 times apply to all corals?, or mainly SPS?
b. The biggest Powerhead from Hagen pumps 400gph, do you suggest to add 2 more? how should I position 5 power heads in my tank?, wont that be too much of a direct impact?.
c. Do you recommend the use of a wave maker? if I use one then the total GPH will be reduced even more, does it matter?.
2. Light: when I bought the fixtures I chose does because the odd shape of the tank, I have the HQI on the center-back are, and the compacts on the center-front area, I though that the higher the K the better for corals, but on one of your podcast you recommended 10,000k to 14,000k (if I remember correctly), what’s wrong with the 20,000k?, what do you think of my light setup?...and if it depends on the type of coral that I will keep, can you tell me witch ones will benefit of it?, I guess I can always change the bulb for a smaller K right?.
3. Clean Sand: my sand has a bunch of dusty debris (I guess from curing the rocks), should I clean it? how? (I don’t like how it looks).
4. Top-Off water: the water is evaporating on a rate of about 2 gal per day, I guess because of the fan directed to the sump (control temperature), should I raise the PH of the purified water before adding it to the tank (from under 7 to 8.2)?
5. What should I add first, fish? corals?, cleaning crew?, those it mater?
6. Can you name 10 corals that you will recommend for a new tank and a beginner?
7. You recommend not to use glass tops, my tank has 4, 2 small one in the corners, and to bigger ones on the center, I have the 24” fixture in top of those and I took the small ones out, also it helps to reduce evaporation, will you still suggest to take those out taking in consideration the use of a sump?, if so can I just lay the fixture in top of the egg grates that you mentioned?.
8. Skimmer: as you can see my skimmer is rated for 125gal, when I bought it I though it was fine since the rock will take a few gallons of water space, but I didn’t include the sump volume, how will I know if my skimmer is not able to handle the system, maybe by testing nitrates?.
9. I need to re-check this, but when I test it for calcium and alkalinity, my calcium was around 450, but my alkalinity was very high…those it makes sense? is there any problem with high alkalinity? (I haven’t add anything to the water)
10. The inside of the fan is rusting already, do you think there is a risk of particles falling to the water?, if so what kind of fan is recommended?
11. Im using bio-balls on the plastic container where the water returns, and I dumped a few carbon bags in the sump, I read somewhere that is not recomended to use bio-balls, true?
12. Any recommendations for my setup/installation?, plumbing looks right?


Wow, this post extended more than I thought, I hope not everyone got bored with my questions ;)

I don’t know if this will be material for a podcast (or if it should be on the general discussion, please move if so), do you mind giving me your observations thru the forum….also any reply from another member will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Simon

thank you fro the great info, and questions...
i am will begin a full response shortly...

Thanks, I just add it to my last question a feedback about my plumbing (its not only my first reef tank, but also the first time that I do any kind of plumbing), I see many display tanks are plumbed mainly with PVC pipes, I did mine with hose, any pro/cons there?...also the UV flow returns to the sump, is that ok?

Hi Simon, and welcome to TR!!




and I believe it finished the cycle last week,
Did u test the ammonia to make sure?


until I hear you say go for 15 to 20 times… I was in shock!.
a. Will the 15 to 20 times apply to all corals?, or mainly SPS?

This is all relative and depends on your tank- you may get away with what you have for softies, but if you want SPS, you will need more flow.



2. Light: when I bought the fixtures I chose does because the odd shape of the tank, I have the HQI on the center-back are, and the compacts on the center-front area, I though that the higher the K the better for corals, but on one of your podcast you recommended 10,000k to 14,000k (if I remember correctly), what’s wrong with the 20,000k?, what do you think of my light setup?...and if it depends on the type of coral that I will keep, can you tell me witch ones will benefit of it?, I guess I can always change the bulb for a smaller K right?.


The 150W metal halides won't do much on a tank that deep, but its better than not having them at all. I'd say softies would be fine for your tank. The K reading on the bulb is the temp of the bulb. Par rating affects coral growth. 10000K produce the best growth, 20000k is the 2nd best, and 14000 has the lowest par reading. When your bulbs need to be changed- its best to switch them out to 10000K. You can change the temp, but not the wattage. By the way- the clip on lights u have is the type of light I will put on my nano.


3. Clean Sand: my sand has a bunch of dusty debris (I guess from curing the rocks), should I clean it? how? (I don’t like how it looks).


I run my sand through a strainer to take the chunks out and give the sand a nice clean look.


4. Top-Off water: the water is evaporating on a rate of about 2 gal per day, I guess because of the fan directed to the sump (control temperature), should I raise the PH of the purified water before adding it to the tank (from under 7 to 8.2)?
As long as you are slowly replacing top off everyday, then u don't need to add anything to it. What kind of purified water are u using? RODI/distilled is the best.


5. What should I add first, fish? corals?, cleaning crew?, those it mater?

Add a cleanup crew first- I like to cycle a tank at least 6 weeks, even longer. I use hermit crabs (1 per gal), astrea (1 per gal), and a few ceriths (20). Avoid emerald crabs- they are mean. I prefer a heavy cleanup crew. Also a cleaner shrimp is nice to have. Then add fish next- the least aggressive fish first. Then wait a few more weeks before you add coral to make sure you have the stability you want.

6. Can you name 10 corals that you will recommend for a new tank and a beginner?

green star polyps
leather/toadstool corals
zoanthids
colt coral
ricordea
xenia (can be tricky- easy for some but not for others)
mushrooms
*thats all I can think of at the moment*


7. You recommend not to use glass tops, my tank has 4, 2 small one in the corners, and to bigger ones on the center, I have the 24” fixture in top of those and I took the small ones out, also it helps to reduce evaporation, will you still suggest to take those out taking in consideration the use of a sump?, if so can I just lay the fixture in top of the egg grates that you mentioned?.

Glass tops aren't the best, however I have them on my tank. I vent the tops about a 1/4 inch *slide them back slightly*. And I run a fan over my skimmer. I haven't had any problems. Fish can jump through egg crate which is why I haven't changed over. I already lost a fish through my vented glass tops :(

8. Skimmer: as you can see my skimmer is rated for 125gal, when I bought it I though it was fine since the rock will take a few gallons of water space, but I didn’t include the sump volume, how will I know if my skimmer is not able to handle the system, maybe by testing nitrates?.

Don't be discouraged, but I haven't heard many good things about this skimmer. Maybe plan on replacing it in a year or 2. Look at Euroreef skimmers. If you get hair algae- u may need to get a better one. Testing nitrates kinda works. Could be other factors like your bioballs and not the skimmer.

9. I need to re-check this, but when I test it for calcium and alkalinity, my calcium was around 450, but my alkalinity was very high…those it makes sense? is there any problem with high alkalinity? (I haven’t add anything to the water)

what is high? give us numbers. What kinda test kits are u using? The most accurate and widely used by most reefers are Salifert test kits

10. The inside of the fan is rusting already, do you think there is a risk of particles falling to the water?, if so what kind of fan is recommended?
11. Im using bio-balls on the plastic container where the water returns, and I dumped a few carbon bags in the sump, I read somewhere that is not recommended to use bio-balls, true

What kinda of fan? One u put over the sump? Sounds like its too close to the sump. Metals aren't good in tanks, but a little shouldn't be too bad. I have a rusty clamp in mine!! doh!!
Get rid of the bioballs!!! You will most likely have a hair algae nightmare because they cause high nitrates. Slowly remove them from your system. You really don't need to run carbon at this stage. Carbon is good later for when you have chemical warfare from softies. The only filtration you need right now is your live rock and a top of the line skimmer.

also the UV flow returns to the sump, is that ok?

I am not a fan of the UV- don't think its necessary and it doesn't discriminate and kills the good stuff too.

1.Circulation: the pump that I have pumps 725gph at 4 feet overhead, to be safe I will say 700 gph in my setup, I also have 3 powerheads (hagen) they pump 270gph each (all on the back left, center, right pointing at middle front area), the main pump also feed my UV (I put a ball valve to regulate the flow) I will say that takes about ¼ of the flow (525 remaining), If my calculations are right my tank is circulating 1,335 GPH (9 times per hour).I thought this was more than enough (it seems to have a nice flow) until I hear you say go for 15 to 20 times… I was in shock!.
a.Will the 15 to 20 times apply to all corals?, or mainly SPS?
i would recommend 15 for any tank that that has anything more than fish and sand... so for reef tanks, or FOWRL (fish only with LR). since i see you have lots of LR, i would recommend at least 15 tanks an hour. this will help with filtration and overall tank metabolism. then depending on your coral you will need to go up from there... is some tanks wthat are dense with SPS, it would not be uncommon to find 30X 40x or more in flow, but then you start get into very specialized tanks.

b.The biggest Powerhead from Hagen pumps 400gph, do you suggest to add 2 more? how should I position 5 power heads in my tank?, wont that be too much of a direct impact?.
what you probably need to do is look at some higher flow pumps, and some with wider outputs.. something like the Tunze or SEIO pumps.

c.Do you recommend the use of a wave maker? if I use one then the total GPH will be reduced even more, does it matter?.
wavemakers are good tools, i dont think they are required, but can be helpful in some tank. its a matter of preference and livestock. but for your other question, less it does reduce the overall flow in that if you have 4 400GPH pumps.. split so that while pumps 1 and 3 are on then 2 and 4 are off, then 2 and 4 on, and 1 and 3 off. yes you can only count 800 GPH overall, not 1600 GPH, because thats all thats really being moved.

2.Light: when I bought the fixtures I chose does because the odd shape of the tank, I have the HQI on the center-back are, and the compacts on the center-front area, I though that the higher the K the better for corals, but on one of your podcast you recommended 10,000k to 14,000k (if I remember correctly), what’s wrong with the 20,000k?, what do you think of my light setup?...and if it depends on the type of coral that I will keep, can you tell me witch ones will benefit of it?, I guess I can always change the bulb for a smaller K right?.
unfortunately i can not give you a solid black or white answer... and if anyone tells you other wise, be leery... lighting is a very tricky topic. personally i find that 10K bulbs give a good combination of output and the color spectrum is not too blue or yellow. i personally like to supplement the 10K bulbs with some actinic,
i want to keep this short as you have many questions, but i could write pages on lights alone... in-fact i am going to be going a long series of shows on lighting in the near future.

3.Clean Sand: my sand has a bunch of dusty debris (I guess from curing the rocks), should I clean it? how? (I don’t like how it looks).
this is likely your diatom bloom, a common algae bloom that occurs at the end of a tank cycle, its normal and should clear up in 2-4 weeks

4.Top-Off water: the water is evaporating on a rate of about 2 gal per day, I guess because of the fan directed to the sump (control temperature), should I raise the PH of the purified water before adding it to the tank (from under 7 to 8.2)?
ABSOLUTELY.. you should make every attempt to keep the PH of your to- off water the same as your tank

5.What should I add first, fish? corals?, cleaning crew?, does it mater?
most peopel start with fish and cleanup crew, but it doesnt really matter...

6.Can you name 10 corals that you will recommend for a new tank and a beginner?
yes... but you really want to get a general idea of what you want....and what you are planning for the final result of the tank.
if your end results are branching branching stony coral, then you might not want to start with the common beginner corals. so while i will name a few, please make sure you plan properly and make sure that these done interfere with your long term goals
Xenia Elongata
pom pom xenia
mushroom corals,
ricodeas
colt coral
most leathers corals
kenya tree
buttom polyps
star polyps
glove coral
these are common soft corals that people start with.. there are SO MANY other options, but this should give you a point to start your research.

7.You recommend not to use glass tops, my tank has 4, 2 small one in the corners, and to bigger ones on the center, I have the 24” fixture in top of those and I took the small ones out, also it helps to reduce evaporation, will you still suggest to take those out taking in consideration the use of a sump?, if so can I just lay the fixture in top of the egg grates that you mentioned?.
with your sump, overflow and skimmer setup, you probably would be ok leaving them on. the main point is to allow gas exchange.

8.Skimmer: as you can see my skimmer is rated for 125gal, when I bought it I though it was fine since the rock will take a few gallons of water space, but I didn’t include the sump volume, how will I know if my skimmer is not able to handle the system, maybe by testing nitrates?.
yes, if you seem to have excess nitrates and algae growth, that is a sign that the skimmer is under powered. as you continue you will learn many signs that your skimmer is working or not.

9.I need to re-check this, but when I test it for calcium and alkalinity, my calcium was around 450, but my alkalinity was very high…those it makes sense? is there any problem with high alkalinity? (I haven’t add anything to the water)
retest it, i would be surprised that this is the case in a new tank like this, but yes, it can be a problem in that it can cause PH problems and it can cause the calcium to precipitate out.

10.The inside of the fan is rusting already, do you think there is a risk of particles falling to the water?, if so what kind of fan is recommended?
you want to use a fan that has as many plastic/cermaic components as possible. the other thing is keep it a bit away, and not over the sump.

11. Im using bio-balls on the plastic container where the water returns, and I dumped a few carbon bags in the sump, I read somewhere that is not recomended to use bio-balls, true?
correct... bio-bals are meant for fish only tanks in that they promote the production of nitrates (which is great FO reducing nitrites as would be needed for a FO tank)

12.Any recommendations for my setup/installation?, plumbing looks right?
honestly, i cant say to much.. the plumbing is a bit hard to see.. but looks ok from what i can see

I am not a fan of the UV- don't think its necessary and it doesn't discriminate and kills the good stuff too.

totally missed this one...
im not agains thtem, but you probably dont need it now.. its great to keep around, as there are places and times to use them..

but you can remove it for the time being

Thanks for the information.

gwen_o_lyn,

Did u test the ammonia to make sure?

Yes, also nitrites and nitrates all 0, I will re-test for everything tonight (inluding ph, calcium, alkalinity and phosphates) and post my water parameters (I do have a couple of different brands, so it will be interesting to see if they differ from each other).

When your bulbs need to be changed- its best to switch them out to 10000K.

Ok, good idea.

The 150W metal halides won't do much on a tank that deep

I will stay for a while with easy to keep corals, I understand the tank is deep also, but just out of curiosity, for the more light demanding corals (power), will putting them nearest the surface do the trick?

What kind of purified water are u using?

I have a Kent RO/DI, I think its call Maximma.

Add a cleanup crew first

That’s what I thought, but somebody said that I wont have enough algae growth, and that they might starve.

I haven't heard many good things about this skimmer

Do you know why?, or can you refear me to a link or review?, I can always return it, that wont be a problem.

You really don't need to run carbon at this stage

I put the carbon mainly for the curing process, I think it reduces the smell ;).

I am not a fan of the UV

Yes, I can see this is a controversial topic.

Thanks
Simon

I will stay for a while with easy to keep corals, I understand the tank is deep also, but just out of curiosity, for the more light demanding corals (power), will putting them nearest the surface do the trick?


Yes the closer to the light, the higher the intensity.




That’s what I thought, but somebody said that I wont have enough algae growth, and that they might starve.


As long as your tank has been cycling the right amount of time, then you will have enough the feed them- there is a lot of food on the rock too- just start out with a small clean up crew and slowly build it up as needed.


Do you know why?, or can you refear me to a link or review?, I can always return it, that wont be a problem.
Only because I read reef forums a lot I think I've read about people not having any luck with them- you may wanna reseach some bigger reef forums and do a search on your skimmer. I may be wrong. You want THE BEST skimmer possible- I can't stress that enough.

I like the way Rob and Gwen attacked that tough one, kind of a one- two punch.
Nice answers both of you, can't think of a thing to add!

My Water Parameters,

I was able to test today with 3 different tests (Hagen, Fastest-powder and RedSea), just in case someone was wondering about difference betwen brands and results:

Amonia: 0 with all of them
Nitrite: 0 Hagen, 0 Fastest, 0,05 ppm RedSea
Nitrate:0 with Fastest and RedSea.
PH: 8.0 Hagen, 8.2 Fastest, 8.2 RedSea
Phosphate: 0 Hagen, 0,2 ppm RedSea, 0,2 mg/l Fastest
Calcium: 400 ppm RedSea, 440 mg/l Hagen, 420 Fastest
Alklinity: 3.5 Redsea, 4.0 Fastest, 11 KH (Hagen) equals 3.9.
Salt: 1.027.

Yesturday I tought that 4.0 on Alkalinity was too high, I read on a book that the parameter should be from 2.5-3.5, but today I read on another book 2.5-5.0, what is a good range?, and also literature alwasy refear on what to do when you have low alkalinity, but nothing on the high range.

Should I use phosphate removers, like the seachem?, or just do water changes to reduce the phosphate?.

My Water Parameters,

I was able to test today with 3 different tests (Hagen, Fastest-powder and RedSea), just in case someone was wondering about difference betwen brands and results:

Amonia: 0 with all of them
Nitrite: 0 Hagen, 0 Fastest, 0,05 ppm RedSea
Nitrate:0 with Fastest and RedSea.
PH: 8.0 Hagen, 8.2 Fastest, 8.2 RedSea
Phosphate: 0 Hagen, 0,2 ppm RedSea, 0,2 mg/l Fastest
Calcium: 400 ppm RedSea, 440 mg/l Hagen, 420 Fastest
Alklinity: 3.5 Redsea, 4.0 Fastest, 11 KH (Hagen) equals 3.9.
Salt: 1.027.
all looks good here,


Yesturday I tought that 4.0 on Alkalinity was too high, I read on a book that the parameter should be from 2.5-3.5, but today I read on another book 2.5-5.0, what is a good range?, and also literature alwasy refear on what to do when you have low alkalinity, but nothing on the high range.
nope. 4 is fine...
i shoot for 3.5 meg/L

Should I use phosphate removers, like the seachem?, or just do water changes to reduce the phosphate?.
try to go at with with water changes...
if after a 2-4 weeks you are still having an issue, then re-examine.

I like the way Rob and Gwen attacked that tough one, kind of a one- two punch.
Nice answers both of you, can't think of a thing to add!

double team action haha

Yesturday I tought that 4.0 on Alkalinity was too high, I read on a book that the parameter should be from 2.5-3.5, but today I read on another book 2.5-5.0, what is a good range?, and also literature alwasy refear on what to do when you have low alkalinity, but nothing on the high range.

I agree with Rob on this- I try and aim for 3-4 meq/L
Your ALK is fine.


Should I use phosphate removers, like the seachem?, or just do water changes to reduce the phosphate?.

I prefer to keep a reef natural and not use chemicals and rather let nature take its course. Give it time and you will have the results you are looking for- all comes with patience ;)

I agree with Sloppygolf. You guys are amazing. Thats an awesome looking tank Filatelico.

Great information, thanks again.

What about plumbing with PVC vs Hose? any pros/cons?...to me it was alot easier using a hose, but I see alot of setups mainly with PVC. Is it more secure?, maybe better water flow?, space saving?.