Piping multiple tanks

[wildeone]

What is the trick to plumbing multiple tanks? If I have 4 tanks that I would like to pipe together can I just have all 4 at different heights and overflow tank 1 to tank 2 to tank 3 to tank 4 and them pump back to tank 1?

I have a 65 gallon display with a 20 long sump. I want to add a 30 gallon beside the display (at like 1 foot lower) and another 20 long below that (a foot above the existing sump).



1
2 <----Something like this.


34

Any other way to do it?

[Amphibious]

It can be done but, you had better figure out how to put overflow safety precautions in place before you fill and circulate. It must be fool proof and that will take some serious thought and design innovation.

Personally, I wouldn't tackle it. Any particular reason for this?

[wildeone]

Well I want to add 2 more tanks to my setup. One as a coral frag tank and one as an invert breeding tank. All of them would be on the finished side of the basement in the previous arrangement, so athestics are somewhat important.

I may be able to pipe to the nonfinished side and go with an external pump setup with my display on the finished and the other 3 on the unfinished side. I don't know how you handle overflow in that situation as it would be about a 15 or 20' run horizontal of pipe. Getting the return back is easy, but how do you handle the overflow to the pump.

Nothing is ever simple. Thats why I like this hobby!

[wwest]

Are all the tanks going to be next to each other? relativly close?

[wildeone]

Here is a quick sketch. This is the first piping scheme I mentioned:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i233/wildeone/Setup1.jpg


Here is the one with an external pump running through the wall, thus making the display on the finished side and the other tanks on the unfinished side. The distance would be 15 to 20 feet between the pump and the display. This is for diagramatical purposes only and not an actual piping plan. How do you handle the returns?

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i233/wildeone/Setup2.jpg

Sorry for the "Chicken Scratch" diagram, no time to CAD it!

[wwest]

Here are my thoughts.

The first image looks good except you would have to be able to take in alot of water with your excisting sump. power goes out and stuff alot of water will drain to the bottom sump.

The second image personaly i like.. but your coral, sump and invert tanks would have to be the same height. that way you dont run into the same problem. all the water drains out of the DT and fills all three instead of one tank.. personaly i would go with image #2. and if its in the unfinished side you could have one really cool looking lab atmosphere. :)

[Rob]

well i admit, i have fully ready all the details in this thread, but i will say you have to be careful with this.

when setting up a multi-tank system you need to take th time to plan it out right. all tanks need to be "capable" of running if one was broke, or disabled.

if you ever look at a LFS system they are not really complex, but they are plumbed in a way that each tank can be disconnected (or closed off) from the rest of the system. that way the tank can be segregated and if there is one problem it wont cause a problem in every tank, such as an overflow

[NaClFinatic]

So plumb in parallel rather than in series...
That does sound like sage advice.

[Rob]

yes, my system for example has my display and frag tank (at the same level) both plumed to my sump (below) separately. the drains are totally separate, and the return is setup so either tank can be disconnected without affecting the other. this way as i work on one, i dont affect the other, and a problem in one does cause a problem everywhere.

the one thing to keep in mind in this setup, is power outage tests. make sure that if there is a loss of power (or pump failure) the sump has enough excess room to handle all the overflow from the tanks

[wildeone]

Well there you have it. As soon as NACL said parallel vs. series it clicked. I am a electric / low voltage guy so now I get it. I will rework my design and see what I come up with.

[fat walrus]

wildeone,

Plumbing a group of tanks in series and releying on gravity flow is very tricky. It is very difficult to maintain proper drainage volume in the lower tanks due to lack of head pressure. This problem can only be solved with great height or huge pipes.

[V]

i disagree, cascade style tanks are easyer if u allow for multi redundancy free flow pipes leading from one level to the next.remembering the further down the line the bigger the diamenter is needed. the return flow is spilt in 4 main returns, with your flow paddles(scfd) spilting off that for the individual movement in the tanks. drilling is involved with multi pipes, with one critical overflow to drain in each tank. your sump has to be one to calculate, with dump volumns from every tank. as does abit of though for the return pump. in the event of power outage the levels drop to your cascade pipes the last being the biggest, with your sump handleing the gravity flowthough! each individual loop component is handles in the exact way you currently do it!

its drilling work, which your a pro at! :cool:

[fat walrus]

i disagree, cascade style tanks are easyer if u allow for multi redundancy free flow pipes leading from one level to the next.remembering the further down the line the bigger the diamenter is needed. the return flow is spilt in 4 main returns, with your flow paddles(scfd) spilting off that for the individual movement in the tanks. drilling is involved with multi pipes, with one critical overflow to drain in each tank. your sump has to be one to calculate, with dump volumns from every tank. as does abit of though for the return pump. in the event of power outage the levels drop to your cascade pipes the last being the biggest, with your sump handleing the gravity flowthough! each individual loop component is handles in the exact way you currently do it!

its drilling work, which your a pro at! :cool:
If you split the return for individual movement, that is no longer in series, it is in parallel.

I never said that running drains in series is not possibe, but requires height and big pipes. You can run a mulitiple smaller pipes, but at some point, it is going to a be really cluttered, and in opinon, look stupid. If it is going to be in a display area, it will not be something pleasant to look at, unless you like to see pipes and fittings.

Running everything parellel will give all the benefits and none of the headaches.

[V]

the question is......... if wildman is planning on expanding the the scope of his hobby to advance his for-seeable business hobby. or is the tanks going to be BS show piece that most of us try to achieve. me personally, as you know blub,ive had to change my twin level tanks because of little fingers getting into the lower levels, but i leave the machinery side of the inner workings visable behind a perspex clear skin. im an industral man by nature, capturing a piece of nature is orsome, reminding myself that ive created the means to contain it is better! plus i know when things F%$% up at a glance! anyways, back on wildmans topic..
with not spilting your return i dont see how you can generate enough flow through a single return, except with internal pumps. and if its a question of pipe ugly, false wall the tanks, u only need a few inchs of space!