Ok I was glorying just a bit :D When I was looking at my tank. Struting around the house says "thats right tank of the month" My husband said ok already. Then it happened :o . I was looking at my beautiful corals with a magnifiing glass, then I saw them :| :( :no: "red bugs". All glory went right out the window... Why me? Oh know what do I do now??:( OK so I read everything I could about them. So if anyone has had experience with the treatment please help.
For what it is worth I will try to document my treatment and the outcome FYI.

heres a picture http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/VICTORIARAW/redbug005.jpg

i know common treatment is to dig the corals in water treated with interceptor (a dogs flea and tick medication)
this should not be don in your tank as it will kill most all micro/macro crustaceans

i am not aware of any "in tank" treatments that are safe, but isolating and treating each coral should help

Yes I read all treatment options. I am going to try the in tank treatment. I have read the pros and cons to doing it this way. I really don't think I have a choice. I will use my experence to help others who may encounter this problem. So lots of before and after pic, along with any changes that may occur.

Sorry to hear about the unforunate event. Keep us updated on the progress.

http://www.oceansofthemidwest.net/forum/

OotM is run by a guy named Grant, he runs a fish store without the store and has an in house frag farm. Don't be fooled by his online store he has the BEST looking tanks and corals I have ever seen in my life bar none. He treats every coral he gets in for red bugs and acro eating flat worms and such just so his farm doesn't die. Long story short take the time and askhim what he would do. I've been pestering himto join TR but he is an uber busy guy building and maintaining custom tank set-ups, and doing various aquarium society talks around the area.

Victoria- how did they get in there? Have you recently added something?

Sorry to hear. :(

I really don't know how they got in there. I have not added any thing for months. I suppose the last frag I added. Anyway I will look at this as a positive and learn what I can, and pass the information along to my favorite web sight TR.

Can red bugs just suddenly popup? If so, that's very scary.

Can you track down the tank conditions of where that frag came from? If the LFS, do they have a red bug outbreak? How long ago did you add it?

I don't think knowing where they came from is going to make a difference. But for what its worth the coral that they are on I bought from a vendor at the Western marine Conference back a few months ago. But it is possible that they have been in my tank for a while. I still have no real bad effects from them. I just don't want to take any chances. From what I have read they still are not good. Better get a magnifing glass and look over all your acropora corals.

Rob,
I going to remove as many crabs and shrimps as I can. I will also drain my fuge into a QT to try to save some start up pods. I know my system will take a hit but from what I have read, some say it will recover quickly. Any way I will document everything I do and post it here. I will not start the treatment for a few weeks. I need to get another tank up and running before I start. I am going to move forward very slowly in hopes I will not make a mistake. This is how we learn:roll:. The worst thing we can learn is what not to do:p

tanks Victoria,
i have never done this intank before, so the full documentation you are proposing would be very helpful to all of us.

if you want we can work up an official "how-to" article based on your experience.

just document as much as you can including reference sources and we can work out the details later...

thanks Mrs ToTM.. ;) you Rock..

Sounds good!!

i know common treatment is to dig the corals in water treated with interceptor (a dogs flea and tick medication)
this should not be don in your tank as it will kill most all micro/macro crustaceans

i am not aware of any "in tank" treatments that are safe, but isolating and treating each coral should help


interceptor is a heart worm medication i think and not for fleas and ticks. they are available only by perscription, but i asked my vet and they gave it to me. through my experience you only have 2 options
1: treat individual peices in a quarentine tank
2: treat whole tank

treating your tank will kill all pods, you may loose shrimps, crabs and snails so take them out. when treating either way, it you must leave the medication in there for about 6hrs with no filtration. the treatment will kill the bugs but not the eggs. after the treatment waterchanges are suggested. it is suggested that you repeat the process 3 times at least.

what i did:
i left the medz in my tank for a whole day. i lost 1 shrimp, snails were ok, crabs ok. bugs were gone. i did another treatment to make sure. 2 months later bugs again. now its been 2 months and i just leave em. i wanna see what kind of damage they cause. so far its all good.

hope this helps

http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Dorton%20treatment.htm

thanks for the correct, yes, i believe you are right on it being a heartworm med..

Just got my new tank today! I will set it up and get it stable before I move as many shrimps and crabs as I can catch into it. I will start treatment in two weeks or so. I will document all stages of treatment and changes that occur in my tank. With lots of before and after pictures. Right now I am working with my Vet to get some Interceptor. We do not have heart worms in our area, so the Vet's here do not carry it. I will include that information too.

Victoria..

It is truly up to you whether you treat your system or not and just how you do it. Some folks live with them as long as you don't not any poor health of the corals and/or you are not trading frags with others and therefore passing around the bugs.

I treated. I was very active in local frag trading/sales and it was the "responsible" thing to do. I had no option but to treat the display because I had such large quantities of acropora that were on LR pieces that were too large to take out and treat in a different tank. As a matter of fact, my prize coral, a "Larry Jackson Purple Monster" acropora had an encrusting base that covered two separate pieces of LR.

I made up two offline refugiums with macro and LR from an unaffected tank. I spent two to three weeks, harvesting all of the shrimp and crabs from my tank. Look...you've probably had the bugs for some time now and another couple weeks will NOT kill you. Get all the hermits, true crabs, shrimp you have and pull them out. It WILL take time; you don't even realize how hard they will make it for you...hiding out.

When you are done, treat the tank. Treat it a couple/few times. Yes, Interceptor is the med of choice, though there has been talk that the Red Slime Remover from Ultralife has been known to kill them off too. That, in my opinion is still "hearsay" and until I see application and testing, as has been done with Interceptor, I'd not use it.

Use the "recipe" listed in the various references on the Internet (to include the link above) and do so without fear. I actually increased the dose just a bit. In the end, I did lose lots of pods and mysid, but they rebounded quickly. As a matter of fact, my gi-normous coral banded shrimp, which I could NOT get out, survived. Though I did lose a pesky lysmata that didn't want to be caught (though I cared less..it had been picking on the byssal threads of my clam).

When you treat, you will see the bugs slough off in the slime created by the corals. Again, treat a couple times. Make sure you turn off your skimmers and such as per the instructions you will find. In the end, do your water changes and run carbon.

I'm sure you will rid yourself of the &*@#$ bugs. During the process, ask away if you have questions or concerns. Take notes. Next time, YOU will be the seasoned vet in eradication of the nasty critters.

Dave

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Redbug.jpg

Thanks dave I know who to talk too if I have any questions. Also i will document everything I do so we can have a sorta "How to" on treating red bug. So I might be consulting you on a few things.

I'm here.. ask away.

Ok Dave thanks. I will be doing the treatment after I get back from vacation in a few weeks.

Victoria sorry for the news it's happens to the best of us.The more sps you buy or trade the risks gets higher. Qt is the best way i feel but not fool proof .I running mostly sps tank myself.Flatworms are more of a treat than red bugs.My treatment i lost a arco crab some hermits hiding in 200 pounds of rock and totally
wipe out my mysis shrimp population . Good luck Jerry

Thanks Jerry I will miss my mysis!

Jerry- welcome to the TR site :)

Hope all goes well Victoria- we are here for you.

Thanks Gwen, being here on TR is like having a bunch of really great reefing buddies just around the corner.

Welcome Jerry...

Been to a Boston Reefers Meeting?

David

David
Do you know if interceptor will kill brittle stars?

Victoria,

I did NOT move my serpent or brittle star from my system when I treated. There was NO WAY IN H-E-Double Hockey Sticks that I was going to find them, never mind pry them out of the 80 some odd pounds of LR in my system.

They made it through with flying colors. As a matter of fact, while I noted a "snowstorm" of mysid, amphipod, and other corpses floating around, I didn't note one of the bazillion micro brittles that I have on my live rock.

Finally, and I may have mentioned this. Although I did lose one cleaner shrimp that I couldn't catch (didn't try too hard either..it was a "clam nipper") I did not lose my huge coral banded shrimp during the process. Yeah... he looked real bad during treatment number two... half dead, stoned looking, but he came out of it and lived a long and happy life thereafter.

D

Thanks for the input. I'm in process of catching as many shrimps and crabs as I can. Will start treatment in about two weeks.

when i did my treatment, i found it to be less harmfull than it really seems. all my shrimp and crabs including acro crabs survived. although i saw no real damage caused by the bugs after 4 months, i decided to nuke them neways. it feels good to be bug free.

my doses were less than the recomended amount. 100g total water volume.
i used the 25-50lb interceptor heartworm meds. 1-2 a pill each treatment, 3 treatments total 4 days apart with skimmer carbon and uv off. the bugs will hang on till the 6th hour and they start dropping. worked well for me.

good luck vic.

sorry i dont want to confuse ne1

"1-2" == half a pill

not 1 to 2.
sorry

Thanks for your input. I need all I can get.

did you nuke your tank yet?

watch out when reintroducing your shrimp and crabs, they might bring back the little red bugs. i would keep them quarentined at least a week before adding them back to your display.

good luck

Great point. I will do that. I will start treatment in about 1 1/2 weeks. I will let everyone know how it goes.

I was not aware of the fact that they could "hitch hike" back in on other crabs and shrimp. I thought that these ugly pods only took to acropora hosts.

Dave

If I am going through this much trouble, I am not going to take any chances. I really don't think they would get on shrimp anyway as the shrimp clean them self alot. But in this hobbie any thing is possible!!!!!!!!!

Victoria,

Tegastes acroporanus does NOT host on anything other than acropora. As a matter of fact, they don't even host on all acropora. I had a nice millipora in my system that never had the bugs even when the Larry Jackson Acro, and Teal Acro on either side of it were INFESTED.

I've read or heard nothing that proves that they will piggyback on crabs, shrimp etc.

Dave

I was not aware of the fact that they could "hitch hike" back in on other crabs and shrimp. I thought that these ugly pods only took to acropora hosts.

Dave


this is very possible, bugs and eggs. they dont only live on the sps, they free float in the water colum

Sorry to hear about your red bug problems. I've never had them, so I can't help out except for this:

When i was researching this article:

Cirolanid Isopod Capture Techniques, Feeding Habits and Mortality Testing (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/bp/index.php) I searched many reef forums to learn all I could about Interceptor and its effects if used in display tanks, because my mortality testing in the article was interceptor on Cirolanid Isopods. I was considering using it in my display tank, but decided against it once I did the tests.

It was a mixed bag of reports, only around 10-15 that I could find, some just lost a few mysis and that was it, but others reported complete tank crashes including the loss of most corals followed by months of hair algae. The really bad reports (which I no longer have bookmarked, sorry!) seemed to have 3 things in common:

1. They put "a little" extra medicine in to be sure to "get da bugs". One guy dosed at like 10x the recommended amount. Please be sure to measure the medicine carefully, it is VERY easy to overdose this stuff.

2. Left the medicine in too long and it ended up killing more things in the tank than anticipated, which resulted in other things dying off. So I would recommend not doing the treatment longer than the recommended 6 hours.

3. Did not do water changes, or didn't do enough. Please be sure to do large water changes after the treatment and make sure the water change water is the same salinity, pH and temperature to minimize coral stress.

Brian

Also, I came across zero reports of the bugs or eggs being on anything other than acropora. Eric Borneman's article on the red bugs pointed out that the red bugs laid their eggs on the coral itself and that the bugs did not leave the coral for other non acropora corals.

Now it is still a very good idea to QT anything for 5-7 days in case there are eggs on it, but I would say it is not very likely that a crab or shrimp would be carrying eggs.

Brian

Ok I'm back from vacation and I'm ready to start the process to treat in tank my red bugs. I will be posting alot of pictures so you all can see the before and afters. I will also document all that I see happeing in my tank. Will start in a few days.

Step 1: set up another tank I got a 6 gal aquapod I set it up and its been running for three weeks now. I will begin to remove all shrimps and hermit crab that I can catch in order to save them. Will post some pictures of that tank in my next post.

Here is a picture of my new tank set up. Do give your self time to get another tank up and running if you do not already have one. Also give your self plenty of time to capture your shrimps and crabs. Not as easy as I had thought. http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/VICTORIARAW/NanoQT001.jpg

Step 2: Make up enough fresh salt water to do two or three water changes. I also will do a water change right before.

I'm still at step one. I have only two peppermint shrimp left to catch. I have rigged up a trap so I think I have a good chance. I do worry about leaving them in there and them dying. Now that I do not have a clean up crew in my tank. I'm taking this very slowly because of what happen to Rob.

Sorry it's taking so long but things have come up. But I'm getting close to starting.

Just keep preparing.. I don't even have to go into the whole standard saying..

"Nothing good....." ah heck.. you know what I mean ;)

D

Latest thing that came up is the ballast on my PC is failing. I need to replace it. It only took MD 3 times to get the right one. I have it in my hand so My hubby will replace it this weekend. So I have to feed him steak and potatoes the next few day in order to insure it gets done....lol
Then I believe I will start.

HEY, Ill replace it for ya :) me like steak :)

It's a longggg drive...lol

yea thats true. well how big is the steak? :) lol

Ok, Step 2 is forget about getting all the peppermint shrimp out. :madmad: just can't catch them. Will try agian when I start treatment. Here is the first photo: Before treatment. http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/VICTORIARAW/Nov2906cubetank005.jpg Treatment will start this weekend.:slap: Red bugs be gone!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/VICTORIARAW/Redbugsbeforetreatment011.jpghttp://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/VICTORIARAW/Redbugsbeforetreatment011.jpg They have increased over the last two months. So I feel treatment is needed before they begin to cause damage to my corals.:agree:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/VICTORIARAW/Redbugsbeforetreatment009.jpgmore pics , sorry for the double pic post.

Day-um...I just love that tank...best of luck!

D

Thanks David...So do I!! I have to admit I'm alittle afraid... But I know what ever happens I will just keep moving forward. Thats what our tanks are anyway... three steps forward.. one step back.

Just follow the recipe and you'll be fine... I was afraid too..but it all worked out.

D

Hey David I have a question??? I don't have access to a scale, how much of the tablet do you think I should use. I'm guessing I have about 33 gallons. I have the large dog tablets 23mg.

Victoria,

Did you take into account the water in refugiums, sumps, skimmers etc? Did you reduce the total gallons by figuring in the mass of your live rock and sand etc.? It makes a difference. You need to "guesstimate" as close as possible.

After you are more than positive of your total gallons in the system, check out this thread/article by our pal Mr. Borneman and the original "brain child" of the treatment, Dustin Dorton:

Eric Borneman - Tegastes acroporanus: Dorton Treatment (http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Dorton%20treatment.htm)

Basically, you want to use the large breed pills (as you've stated) 50-100 LB dogs. Each of those pills contains 23mg of Milbemycin Oxime. Remember, the pills themselves are in and around a gram each. There is other "mass" in that pill besides the medication itself. This is important to understand as you will be dosing with total mass of the pill and not of the total mass of the medication therein.

For your system +/-30 gallons, you would want to use +/- 0.075mg of the pill. The recipe calls for 0.025 grams per 10 gallons. Personally, I never weighed the medication. I had in and around 100 gallons in my system at the time and it was easier for me to just use a quarter of the pill. ( .025X10=.25 right?) :)

If you are as risky as I :) you would need to use 13.3% of the pill.

Dave

I am reading breathless.... Good Luck !!

Treatment is well under way. Look for the complete hour by hour play comming soon.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the treatment! Looking forward to hear how it goes. Good luck!

Victoria, i have moved your posts to a new thread.. i think your info is awesome, and i want to make sure its doesn't get lost in this thread... hope you understand... :)

here is a link to the new thread so everyone can follow along
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/diy-projects/2961-victorias-redbug-treatment.html

Thanks Rob I was hopeing it would get used this way. I glad I got to do it here at TR,,