New 75 Gallon

[f1504b4]

Got some more work done today on my first FOWLR Aquarium.
Have the overflow box set up with the drain into my 20 gallon sump.
Have my return from sump about 4" below the water line,sound good?
Did'nt have the right fittings for my pump so will have to wai't till Home Depot opens in the morning.
I am putting a Coralife Super Skimmer in the sump,got to tell you I need to study how they work better, then I could understand the directions better.
Have to wait till I can afford the live rock,allready have 80 LBS. of Carib Sea Aragonite.
So I'm just at the point of filling my tank system with tap water and seeing if it works okay.
Talking to LFS owner today about DSB's,he said I should opt for about a 1/2 inch of sand and then a fiberglass screen and then the rest of the sand as this will keep my tank looking cleaner?
This was his reply to my talking about setting my base rock on PVC stands in a DSB.
Thanks Phil

[Small Fry]

hey phil, if you have any questions, dont be afraid to ask. I dont see what the screen would acompish in keeping your tank cleaner?? But change to Ro/Di water, even if it takes longer, your fish will thank you for it

I dont really knwo about the skimmer, youll get othr advice im sure. Retyurn sounds good, just make sure you have enough surfac e agitation. And remember to take your time to look through the forums, posts, etc.. and make sure you know what you need to so you dont end up making a mistake that will make a mistake that could cost money and fish.

Other than what i said all sounds good

[Amphibious]

Got some more work done today on my first FOWLR Aquarium.
Have the overflow box set up with the drain into my 20 gallon sump.
Have my return from sump about 4" below the water line,sound good?
Did'nt have the right fittings for my pump so will have to wai't till Home Depot opens in the morning.
I am putting a Coralife Super Skimmer in the sump,got to tell you I need to study how they work better, then I could understand the directions better.
Have to wait till I can afford the live rock,allready have 80 LBS. of Carib Sea Aragonite.
So I'm just at the point of filling my tank system with tap water and seeing if it works okay.
Talking to LFS owner today about DSB's,he said I should opt for about a 1/2 inch of sand and then a fiberglass screen and then the rest of the sand as this will keep my tank looking cleaner?
This was his reply to my talking about setting my base rock on PVC stands in a DSB.
Thanks PhilHey Phil, I have an old saying, "The worst place to get advice on setting up an aquarium is at your LFS!" I can say that because I'm old and have extensive experience. :p That may sound like an oxymoron but the truth is always the truth and can not be disputed. Are all employees of every LFS ignorant? No. But the majority of them don't have a clew. And this guy falls into that category.

First, take Small Fry's advice and use RO/DI water. He says, quote, "your fish will thank you for it" and I would add, you will thank Small Fry for that sage advice.

Second, If you decide to go DSB, do not put anything under the sand. That statement by the LFS guy tells me he knows nothing about how a DSB functions. I don't know where you got the idea of PVC stands but it's what I do and recommend. Here's a link to my tank thread if you haven't read it - Amphibious' 135 thread (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412)

If you want to read a good article about the functioning of a DSB written by the Guru of DSBs Dr. Ron Shimek, click on the thumbnail picture of his book on this page - "Sand Bed Secrets" (http://www.theculturedreef.com/aragonite.htm)

Third, ask questions here and read up before you do anything.

Fourth, the only thing that happens quickly in a marine aquarium is disaster. Go slow.

Keep us up to date. Hope this helps.

[f1504b4]

Thanks Richard,
I read the artical on DSB's and found it very interesting and at the same time made me think of just how much there is to know in this hobby.How do you go about keeping it clean,vacuming like you do in a fresh water aquarium without disturbing or sucking up the worms and or micro organisms.

[f1504b4]

I have an RO UINT

[Amphibious]

Thanks Richard,
I read the artical on DSB's and found it very interesting and at the same time made me think of just how much there is to know in this hobby.How do you go about keeping it clean,vacuming like you do in a fresh water aquarium without disturbing or sucking up the worms and or micro organisms.You're absolutely correct, Phil, there is a lot to learn in this hobby. I've been into saltwater aquariums exclusively since the early '70s and do not consider myself an expert by any means. I find myself learning something new everyday. If you are going into this hobby please take the high road and learn all you can. Continue asking questions here, join a reef club in your area, let it become a passion. You will get so much more out of the hobby than you ever put into it if you truly participate.

I have met so many wonderful people here on TR, at the various marine aquarium conferences, at several club's meetings, people from all walks of life and from around the world. A special bond forms between aquarists that can last a lifetime.

To answer your question about vacuuming the sand. We don't vacuum the sand as you are thinking. What you saw in my tank thread was me using a 5/8" clear pipe to lift the lower layer of sand to free it of some of the detritus or left over gook in an attempt to keep the DSB fresh. I do a small area on an irregular basis and move to a different area each time. Some people say this is not necessary and could be detrimental to the health of the DSB. I can't address that opinion because no one, to my knowledge, has ever done a definitive study on the effects of disturbing a DSB as compared to not disturbing it. I like the results I get. At the same time the fine cloud of "stuff" that goes into circulation feeds my filter feeders.

[f1504b4]

Thanks I can see where you are coming from even though I am real new to all this, and it seems like I spend alot of time reading, your PVC setup is the way I want to go even though I have never done this before.
I'm just setting up my sump no refrigum yet and I have only one return line 4" down from the top,how would you set up my circulation?

[CarmieJo]

Phil,

In regards to the tap water, IF you are just adding the water to a bare system to see if everything works and it has no leaks I think that is OK. You were being warned about using tap water to run your tank with.

[f1504b4]

No Carmie I have A RO unit.
I just want to see if everythins working okay before I do the rest.
Still not sure if I like my return set up.
Phil

[CarmieJo]

A dry run (or in this case tap water run) is always a good idea IMO.

[f1504b4]

At the same time the fine cloud of "stuff" that goes into circulation feeds my filter feeders.

Hi Richard I copied and pasted this part from your last reply about useing the 5/8 clear plastic pipe.Can you tell me more about filter feeders?

[Amphibious]

Sure. There are many filter feeders that make their way into our reef tanks simply by hitchhiking on the live rock. They could include sponges, tunicates, bivalves and other critters that feed themselves by sucking in tank water and filtering out anything edible to them and expelling the filtered water back into the tank. Then there are the critters we acclimate into our reef such as clams, corals, gorgonia zoanthids, xenia, some crabs and other things but, I think you get the idea.

I like to tell reefers to run their reef tanks with dirty water. By that I mean do not filter your water through fine mesh filters like canister filters. Fine filters remove the particles that your filter feeders are looking for to survive. Then, when I "clean" a portion of my DSB as shown in the following picture.....

http://www.theculturedreef.com/sand-4.jpg

the cloud of "mulm" coming from the bottom of the tube is food for the filter feeders.

Did this help clear up your question on filter feeders?

[f1504b4]

Hi again Dick hope I'm not being a pain in the you know what with all my questions LOL.
I think I understand better but have alot to learn which is okay because I'm taking my time and hopefully doing it right,I sent you an e-mail hope you got it.
The first persons I talked to at another LFS told me I could use the Fluval canester filters I have.After reading more and asking questions here I decided against that and going with a sump and a protein skimmer and waiting to change over to the sump with the refigum because I don't really understand that much of the process yet and I am just doing FOWLR so I thought I could wait on the refrigum.
So maby I am still comfused about the filter feeders because as I see it the protien skimmer will be my filter with this set up right?

[f1504b4]

Hi again,
Back to the canister filters some one here told me that they use them to polish the water? Any ideas or coments on that?


I like to tell reefers to run their reef tanks with dirty water. By that I mean do not filter your water through fine mesh filters like canister filters. Fine filters remove the particles that your filter feeders are looking for to survive.


A copy and paste from you,hope you don't mind it makes it easyer for me to tell you what I am thinking.
I have had fresh water aquariums for about 8 years,started with a 30 gallon community tank,went to semi-agressive, and then Afican Chiclids. I think you can see the pattern of my aquariums,got bored with fresh water and really wasn't interested in them any more.My Africans were easy to take care of and you can't kill them by letting your tank go to long between water changes with vacuming the botom.I mean you can tell just how dirty your water is in a fresh water tank when you wait to long.
One experience I had was with 2 Electric Johnnies,had one male for like 2 years,made the mistake of putting a smaller male in with him, about a 6 months after that I noticed the younger male beating the old guy up had to take him out of the tank because I though he was sick,put him in a 10 gallon tank and gave some meds that don't think now made any difference and he got healthy again,put him back in my 75 with the younger male and found out about Male Dominence, because the little guy put him in hiding in the corner and thats when I brought him back to LFS and hope he found a good home.
I'm sure I'm going to have to pay attention to that when I get to the point of adding fish to my aquarium but thats months away,right now I am just trying to understand and set everything up with sump and the plumbing water flow GPM,how the circulation inside the tank works.
I understand from everything I've read that what we are doing here as far as keeping a saltwater aquarium is to try to keep it as close to the natural reef enviroment.
Learning about saltwater has made me pay more attention to my 30 gallon fresh water aquarium community tank that my girlfriend has.Helping her out with takeing care of it.I just put a power head in it with a fiber filter under it that the water goes through first and keeping up with the 10 % water changes every week.
Guess what I am trying to say here is that I know you can't make the mistake of foregtting to maintain your saltwater aquarium,so when you do it,I mean setting everything up do it right and have a plan.
sorry for rambling on,just so much to learn and thanks again for all the help.
Phil

[Amphibious]

Hi again Dick hope I'm not being a pain in the you know what with all my questions LOL.
I think I understand better but have alot to learn which is okay because I'm taking my time and hopefully doing it right,I sent you an e-mail hope you got it.
The first persons I talked to at another LFS told me I could use the Fluval canester filters I have.After reading more and asking questions here I decided against that and going with a sump and a protein skimmer and waiting to change over to the sump with the refigum because I don't really understand that much of the process yet and I am just doing FOWLR so I thought I could wait on the refrigum.
So maby I am still comfused about the filter feeders because as I see it the protien skimmer will be my filter with this set up right?First, you haven't even come close to testing my patience. :D I see another post after this one, I'll take them one at a time so, I don't get confused. ;)

I think I mentioned that, sad as it is, the LFS is usually the worst place to get advice especially on saltwater. Buy your dry goods there, come here for advice, be very wary where you buy your live stock. That's a whole other story, it's scary. It's good you are not using the canister filters as primary filters.

Your protein skimmer (PS) is a filter that primarily takes out dissolved organics that build up and cause algae blooms. They will take out some of the food for filter feeders but not all of it because only a portion of you water passing through the sump will be directed to the PS.

[Amphibious]

Hi again,
Back to the canister filters some one here told me that they use them to polish the water? Any ideas or coments on that?


I like to tell reefers to run their reef tanks with dirty water. By that I mean do not filter your water through fine mesh filters like canister filters. Fine filters remove the particles that your filter feeders are looking for to survive.


A copy and paste from you,hope you don't mind it makes it easyer for me to tell you what I am thinking.

Guess what I am trying to say here is that I know you can't make the mistake of foregtting to maintain your saltwater aquarium,so when you do it,I mean setting everything up do it right and have a plan.
sorry for rambling on,just so much to learn and thanks again for all the help.
PhilPhil, when you want to quote from a previous thread, just click the "Quote" button at the bottom of the thread you want to quote. It will come up in the reply window already quoted. If you'll notice in my last post I highlighted the points I wanted to address and then just addressed those points. In this response I highlighted what I wanted to address and deleted the "ramble" portion to shorten the quoted stuff. Try it, you'll like it

Actually you can be less than diligent in your maintenance of a saltwater tank and many people do just that. When it catches up with them and tips the equilibrium the other way, the disaster can be quit expensive. So, your best bet is to set up a schedule of maintenance and stick to it the best you can.

My schedule goes like this.
Give the tank a good look through first thing in the morning. This is easy.
Feed. Also easy and fun.
Sit at the computer, next to the aquarium, enjoy the view and behavior in the tank, (catch up on posts on TR :agree: and e-mails.)
Get makeup water into sump to top off.
Once a week, change 10 gal of water with freshly made up saltwater.
Twice a month check water parameters,
PH, 8.1 to 8.5 depending on time of day.( I have a meter so this is monitored continually)
Ammonia, (NH3/NH4) should be 0ppm after cycle.
Nitrite, (NO2) should be 0 after cycle.
Nitrate, (NO3) can be slightly raised but not higher than 25ppm in FOWLR and 10ppm in reef.
Magnesium, should be maintained at natural seawater levels 1250 mg/L or somewhat higher to 1400 mg/L. Mag is very important in being able to raise and maintain high calcium levels.
Calcium, in FOWLR maintaining around 400ppm is OK. In a reef you want 450ppm minimum, over 500 is wasting time, product and energy.
Alkalinity, depends on how your test kit reads it. Mine gives it in total Alk and should read about 4 - 5 meg/L. It goes beyond the scope of this response to dig deeper into Alk. But, the correct Alk helps balance PH and improves Calcium stability.

This will give you some idea of what lies ahead. Brand of test kits is very important. There are some very poor kits out there. Salifert is one of the best at reasonable prices but sometimes hard to find.

I hope this begins to clear up some of your questions.

[Amphibious]

By the way Phil, I didn't get an e-mail from you. my e-mail address is

dick@theculturedreef.com

Hit me again.

Dick