Hi all,

I'm new to the board and fairly new to the hobby. I have a 60 gal reef tank with 4 x 150 vho's and it's been doing fairly well but I've been struggling with some green hairy mushrooms that I introduced last month. 2 of them are doing great but 4 of them on the same rock are whitesh/green and just not looking great.

nitrates = 20 ppm(very low)
nitrites = 0
salinity = 1.024
hardness = 250 ppm(very hard)
alkalinity = 120 ppm
ph = 8.2
temp = 82

The tank was initially cycled with a damsel several months ago and here is the current bio-load:

1 regal tang
1 percula clown
1 copperband butterfly
1 flame angel
1 spiney urchin
1 fire shrimp
1 peppermint shrimp

pulsing & non-pulsing xenia
various ricordia mushrooms(doing great)
frogspawn
green hairy mushroom
lots of live rock and live sand

I feed the tank every other day with flake/mysis shrimp and frozen prime reef food.

So far, I lost a couple fish(purple tang and scooter blenny) to a carpet anemone that looked great but was a killer. I also lost another scooter and a diamond goby to unforseen causes..stress?

I've seen mushrooms at the LFS turn white like mine and they tell me that I need more nutrients. The problem is that I regularly add:
reef complete
essential elements
Kent coral accel
Kent chromamax

I've got the mushrooms near the top of the tank so lighting should be more than sufficient. I'm really confused about what nutrients I really need to be adding(My gut is that I'm duplicating efforts with the different elements).

BTY, I filter via a sump tank with the blue filter media and I have a protein skimmer, heater and bio-balls.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/wisdom from some of you who have experienced this. Great PODCAST by the way. I'm really enjoying it so far and learning tons.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve, Welcome to Talkingreef.
while i cant say ffor sure ts the cause of the problems.. your nitrates are quite high, 20ppm is far above where it shodul be.. as to why, well it looks like you are slightly overstocked, the tank is too small for tangs, ant they are VERY messy fish.

as for the more nutrients, we have a bit of confusion here.. from a "nutrients" standpoint, there are more than enough.. and its sounds like you are putting in more ethan the tank can handle, leading to the high nitrates. my guess is you are also having algae issues too..

so what to do, for starters, get a couple good water changes going using RO/DI water, get rid of the bioballs if thy are being used in a wet/dry style of filtration.
Next, relax or stop using all that extra stuff
reef complete
essential elements
Kent coral accel
Kent chromamax

get those nitrates down...
and get an understanding of calcium and magnesium before you dose that stuff.. :)

as far as feeding the hairy shrooms, try spot feeding them with a pice of mysis shrimp every few days for the sick ones, and once a week for the healthy ones

ok, i will stop here, and let others jump in too.. :)

Thanks for the input Rob,

I was suprised when I tested today and noticed nitrates at anything other than 0 because I usually maintain them at 0 levels and when you mentioned the additives as a link..it clicked that I'm probably doing more harm than good by adding the extra "stuff".

So..regarding calcium and magnesium..how often should I test and what are ideal parameters for a reef tank? I've been using test strips(mardel) to do ph, salinity, nitrite,nitrate, hardness tests but I'm considering shifting to a different test kit.

Any opinions? I've read other forums on sites such as saltwaterfish.com and reefcentral and Salifert seems to be the test of choice but I'd like something complete and accurate. How often should I be checking calcium and magnesium and is there anything else that I should be checking?(Strontium, phospate..???)

Also..what do you use to "spot feed" a mushroom? I've been mulling over whether I need tweezers or a turkey baster or.....???

As far as algaes, I had a bit of hair algae a month or two ago but it's completely under control now. I do a 10% water change every 3 - 4 weeks.

Thanks for your wisdom.

Steve

So..regarding calcium and magnesium..how often should I test and what are ideal parameters for a reef tank?
ideal Ca should be 400-450
ideal Mg shoudl be 3x Ca or 1200-1350 (most people shoot for 1300)

you shoudl test at least weekly or more until you get the levels stable

I've been using test strips(mardel) to do ph, salinity, nitrite,nitrate, hardness tests but I'm considering shifting to a different test kit.

Any opinions? I've read other forums on sites such as saltwaterfish.com and reefcentral and Salifert seems to be the test of choice but I'd like something complete and accurate. How often should I be checking calcium and magnesium and is there anything else that I should be checking?(Strontium, phospate..???)
i agree im a big fan of salifert, and its what i recommend

Also..what do you use to "spot feed" a mushroom? I've been mulling over whether I need tweezers or a turkey baster or.....???
tweezers would work perfect for the shrooms

As far as algaes, I had a bit of hair algae a month or two ago but it's completely under control now. I do a 10% water change every 3 - 4 weeks.
would increase to weekly until Nitrates get under control.. :)

Hi Steve,

:welcome: to TR. I second Rob's advice about removing the bio-balls, they are nitrate factories. You may want to remove them about 1/3 at a time over the course of 3 weeks. Your LR & LS will be sufficient for filtration. Do you have a skimmer?

Thanks for the input Carmie,

Initially, I didn't have any bio-balls in the sump but a friend of mine suggested that I should add them to maintain a good source of the bacteria to keep the cycle going. I've heard good and bad since then but mostly bad.

I do have a protein skimmer in the sump and I clean it frequently.

Stokessc, would you happen to know if the lighter color mushrooms are getting enough light. I actually have two on my rock that I moved to an area where the rest of the mushrooms received adequate light yet two did not resulting in the lighter color.

Hi Jay,

I moved them up to the top of my live rock which seems to have helped. they are getting a total of about 600 watts of VHO light (2 x 150 watt vho white and 2 x 150 vho actinics) so I think they should be happy from that perspective.

Thanks,
Steve

I think it was just the lighting... they should be fine in a few weeks. I have the same issue currently and probably wouldn't have noticed it if I was setting up a new aquarium. Mine are sitting about 7 to 8 inches under a 150 watt HQI Metal Halide 20k Bulb. :-) They have also spread to another rock which means that I can maybe trade them for something else soon. :-)

i would dare to say your tank is too new for any corals as of yet although your tank has been up for one month corals need stable water conditions and the natural cycling of a new tank can take up to a few months this would also explain higher nitrate levels. as for bioballs being nitrate factories this is assumed statement of many uninformed hobbiest that have used them..due to LFS and manufacturing misinformation and recommended care of them.bioballs can be a very good way of bio filteration providing proper care and maintainance is given to them such as regular cleaning of the debris in which can be trapped within them which can result in higher nitrate levels.once every couple of months the bioballs shoud be removed from the system and vigarously rinsed(swooshed) in a bucket of freshly discarded tank water.this will help remove all excess trapped debris without removing benaficial bacteria. as for your stock choise i also have to agree your tank is not only too small for the tang and the angel but not mature enough to harbor any of the species that you are housing at this time..i highly reccomend doing 15% water changes weekly and if using any type of filter media change that out every week also