Solaris LED Illumination System

[Amphibious]

Many of you know PFO has developed the first LED light fixture for lighting our reef systems. PFO's owner, Pat Ormiston, spent the last 2 1/2 years, countless hours, many trips to China and probably hundreds of thousands of dollars, designing the Solaris LED Illumination System. The prototype intrigued me enough that, back in April at the IMAC show in Chicago, I placed an order for the very first one. It was a bit of a risk because LED technology had never been tested on coral. But, I was convinced it would grow coral, Pat was convinced it would grow coral and evidence coming from light research author Dana Riddle is convincing, the Solaris indeed grows coral. Dana received a 14" Solaris prototype at IMAC for testing and has published his preliminary report. You can read it - HERE (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2).

The first units purchased are now being delivered into the hands of everyday reefers like you and me. The units purchased from my website are due for delivery beginning today. My customers will have their Solaris units in operation before me. Mine is due to be delivered next week. I'd like to say it's just good customer service :agree: but, it's just the way it worked out. However, I will add, the Solaris units completely sold out of the first production run and Pat and I had several conversations about how he was going to fill the orders. I requested that the units sold through my web site be delivered before mine because, my customers had paid up front and patiently waited, as Pat worked out the last few glitches, for two months for PFO to ship.

I invited each of my customers to take a look at TR and indeed one of them, Jarhead, has joined. He has already contributed to other threads. I invite Jarhead to freely report his experiences with the Solaris unit on this thread as will I. Of course, I expect all interested parties to ask questions and respond.

Dick

[Rob]

yes, please do, not that i can afford it, but i am EXTREMELY interested in the overall results of the system

[V]

fantastic news, great thing is u can dial in aclimation yeah!
my question is.... is it better to buy smaller units that one big one so u can target spectrum corals or does it translate where each cells can be dialed in anyways.

[bubbletip]

When the Solaris units first came out for pre-order I emailed PFO to find out if the 14" unit would work well with my 30G(20" across). He stated that I woudl be losing 6" of light as the LED's should be purchased to cover the entire length of the tank. I guess a smaller unit would be ok if all your corals/clams were directly under the LED's. You would lose valuable tank space with this configuration.

I am intersted to see where people are growth and color wise with their corals a year from now. I think the 14" Solaris would be e agrea experiment on a nano tank especially with the minimal UV radiation and low heat from the Solaris units. May be the new wave for nano and pico tanks.

[Stevej72]

Amp could you post some pics of the led arrangement in the unit what size LEDs are in it and how many?

[Amphibious]

Amp could you post some pics of the led arrangement in the unit what size LEDs are in it and how many?My 72" unit came in yesterday. Plugged it in to day and man it's cool. I did have a small issue with it. 3 rows of lights didn't come on. E-mailed Pat at PFO and he called and walked me through the wiring on that bank of lights and we found a crimp connector that wasn't crimped properly. A quick trip to the hardware store tomorrow and a fix. I'll post pics tomorrow in my LED thread.

The wiring, circuit boards, transistors, motherboard and LEDs are very complex. I was thoroughly impressed with what Pat designed. When he walked me through the wiring diagram searching for the problem, he knew the different colors of all the wires. That was from memory because he's in Las Vegas.

However, I cannot post pics of the unit opened and exposing the wiring system. It's all proprietary stuff. Sorry.

[V]

my ass is covered, looks like Amps ass is covered as well, who else need covering..lol
smart thinking my man, just untill clones kick in!

im itching to buy one now my friend, but i dont have the set-up yet.although it would force the setup quicker..lol
might time it for series 2

[Amphibious]

my ass is covered, looks like Amps ass is covered as well, who else need covering..lol
smart thinking my man, just untill clones kick in!

im itching to buy one now my friend, but i dont have the set-up yet.although it would force the setup quicker..lol
might time it for series 2It wasn't smart thinking on my part. I took the pictures when I had the unit open. It's complex and really compacted in there. a lot of sh*t in the fixture. But, rather than post pics and get into trouble later with Pat (PFO president/owner) I asked while I had him on the phone. The answer was no. So yes, I'm covering my ass. You are right about things changing when a clone comes along.

[V]

YOUR A GOOD MAN AMP!
great to be riding shot-gun with ya!;)

[fat walrus]

It wasn't smart thinking on my part. I took the pictures when I had the unit open. It's complex and really compacted in there. a lot of sh*t in the fixture. But, rather than post pics and get into trouble later with Pat (PFO president/owner) I asked while I had him on the phone. The answer was no. So yes, I'm covering my ass. You are right about things changing when a clone comes along.
Amp, actually it is just courtesy and mutual respect that prevented you from posting pictures. Unless a specific contract was agreed upon, you were the owner of the light unit and pictures that you post are nothing more than pictures of your property. The only rights that Pat had would have been to prevent you from posting the owner's manual, warranty certificates, and any schematics/charts/diagrams/specifications that have been copyrighted or trademarked.

[Bernie]

I just wanna see a pic of the unit on the tank getting it's light on... I drooled over the magazine ad for the system for weeks until I found a price online and since it cost more than I just sold a car for, I'll be passing until a later date... but that thing is lighting sex!

[Amphibious]

Amp, actually it is just courtesy and mutual respect that prevented you from posting pictures. Unless a specific contract was agreed upon, you were the owner of the light unit and pictures that you post are nothing more than pictures of your property. The only rights that Pat had would have been to prevent you from posting the owner's manual, warranty certificates, and any schematics/charts/diagrams/specifications that have been copyrighted or trademarked.You are correct, Wally. Pat asked me not to post the pics and I agreed. I had respect for Pat from the day I met him at IMAC in Chicago. After peering into his LED fixture, that he designed from scratch, my respect grew exponentially. To a person trained in electrical engineering it may have been a matter of design and work out the kinks but, to me the guts of the unit looked Greek. Yikes!

Before Pat and I talked, I had a chance to program the time, daylight length, percent of output and various other "inputs" adjustable by the owner. That went smoothly and with very little effort put toward learning. I simply gave the instructions a cursory read through and connected the unit to the three control boxes (transformers) and plugged them in and wallah, let there be light. Holy Cow let there be light indeed. Man that thing is brilliant. I had it leaning vertical against the wall. :eek: Don't do that!!!

One feature I especially appreciate is, inside the light fixture it's all low voltage. I hate electrical shock!!! Pat had to take a call while we were going through this "fix" and Sue and I were poking around looking for a lose connection when the phone suddenly rang. Both of us jumped a foot like we had been shocked. We looked at each other and laughed our ass off. Funny!

[Amphibious]

I just wanna see a pic of the unit on the tank getting it's light on... I drooled over the magazine ad for the system for weeks until I found a price online and since it cost more than I just sold a car for, I'll be passing until a later date... but that thing is lighting sex!I have to agree with you, Bernie. Pant pant pant, slowly walks over to the aquarium gazing at the beauty of it all and lights a ciggybutt. :rotfl:

[V]

:cheers:mutual respect/ covering your ass, same bunch of grapes if u ask me!
ether one helps with future arrangments of the benifical kind!

[Amphibious]

I didn't get all this gray hair sitting around growing old. :rotfl: I learned the art of getting along through experience.

[V]

i was born with that gift> i just choose to ignore it from time to time:D and love ruffeling feathers instead!

[Amphibious]

Yes, V, you are a smooth talking devil at times.

[Stevej72]

Im not asking for trade secrets or the guts photos, just the reflector side of the unit, and what type and amount of LEDs

[NaClFinatic]

Yes, and you said you would get some pictures of the tank with it today. We want to see it please! :D

[Amphibious]

Im not asking for trade secrets or the guts photos, just the reflector side of the unit, and what type and amount of LEDsYour wish is my comand, Steve. Here's the LED shot.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/DSC-00100.jpg


There's 150 LEDs in a combination of white and blue, some for daylight and some for moonlight in both colors. All 150 are on during daylight. The unit is factory programmed and can be run plug and play. However, since I would rather play it is easily programmed to do what ever you want. Within it's working parameters, of course.

Dick

[Amphibious]

Yes, and you said you would get some pictures of the tank with it today. We want to see it please! :DSorry David, been busy today. Here's the first shot of the tank. Excuse any algae on the glass. Didn't have time to clean before the shot.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/Dsc_0011.jpg

This is without flash. Didn't want flash to influence the overall picture.

Dick

[gwen_o_lyn]

It's very blue. Do you think it's more blue than 20k lights would be? I like it!

[wildeone]

Wow Amp, that looks great! I know how long normal LEDs last, are these expected to last the same amount of time? Also, I use the new Super Bright LED's for different things at my job, and we install them outside and you can see thim in full sun so they are truly SUPER BRIGHT! I wonder isf these are the same superbright LEDS or the standard ones?

At anyrate, I plan on getting one one I cash my retirement plan in! :)

[Jarhead]

Dick,
That looks great! Can't wait to get mine in.

[Amphibious]

It's very blue. Do you think it's more blue than 20k lights would be? I like it!I'm not sure for two reasons. First, I had 10ks on it, second, I'm color blind and blues are my worst color. :mad:

I do like it though.

[Amphibious]

Wow Amp, that looks great! I know how long normal LEDs last, are these expected to last the same amount of time? Also, I use the new Super Bright LED's for different things at my job, and we install them outside and you can see thim in full sun so they are truly SUPER BRIGHT! I wonder isf these are the same superbright LEDS or the standard ones?

At anyrate, I plan on getting one one I cash my retirement plan in! :)The life expectancy is 50,000 hours for the white LEDs and I think 100,000 hours for the blue.

They're definitely not the standard. I have a thread, probably my tank thread, that talks about the type LED they are.

I expect the price to come down by then. :agree:

[Amphibious]

Dick,
That looks great! Can't wait to get mine in.Scott, your's is due to be delivered the 29th. Hopefully undamaged this time. I'd say PFO handled that very professionally. They are pretty awesome.

[fat walrus]

I'm not sure for two reasons. First, I had 10ks on it, second, I'm color blind and blues are my worst color. :mad:

I do like it though.
That explains everything. We've been wondering for a long time why you keep so many brown corals and goldfish in your tank. :eek:

Nah, I was kidding. Your tank looks awesome. Keep us updated about the lights.

[Amphibious]

Hey Wally, I know you are kidding. Gotta tell you guys. I've been sitting here waiting for the moon lights to come on. When they didn't I went and checked the time clock. Phart! I set the clock wrong. It's on a 24 hour clock, ie, 1 through 24. Once I corrected that they immediately went into moonlight mode. These are really cool!!!

[Reefbaby]

cool Amp! so excited to finally see it in action!

So, is the picture you posted your daytime configurations? Or will you add some white light to it as well? If so, I'd love to see a pic of the white and blue on together....

[V]

ive got the popcorn, and the grease monkey juice, let hop in the shaggen-wagan and make our way to the Ampage household!!

[Reefbaby]

groovy baby!

[Amphibious]

cool Amp! so excited to finally see it in action!

So, is the picture you posted your daytime configurations? Or will you add some white light to it as well? If so, I'd love to see a pic of the white and blue on together....That pic is everything on 100%. By clicking through the menu I can set %'s of white, blue, moonlight white, and moonlight blues. Pat made it user friendly, just four buttons, Select, Cancel, Left Arrow and Right Arrow. That's it. Pushing Select starts the menu search, clicking one of the arrows scrolls through the menu. When you find the item you want to adjust click Select, it appears, click the Right or Left Arrow, find the value you want and click Select again, done.

[Reefbaby]

Well, in that case, I would say that the image appears super blue. It looks like a picture of a tank with just deep blue actinics. Maybe I'M color blind?? :D

[Amphibious]

Gotta remember, this is factory default settings. I haven't played with the settings yet. In real life, sitting here in front of the tank, it doesn't look all that blue to me, who happens to be color blind and blue being the most affected color. I'm wondering if the camera's white balance is affecting the pic.

Don't know for sure. It's pretty awesome, though.

[Jarhead]

Scott, your's is due to be delivered the 29th. Hopefully undamaged this time. I'd say PFO handled that very professionally. They are pretty awesome.

I agree 100% - it sucks UPS damaged the first, but what really impressed me is that PFO sent another out before they got the 1st one back. That is unheard of! Usually you have to wait for a company to get the damaged product back and have a fun time trying to get a new one in a timely manner. Thanks for staying on top of it while you were in WI having fun! Both you and PFO provide AWESOME customer service in my book :D

[Amphibious]

I agree 100% - it sucks UPS damaged the first, but what really impressed me is that PFO sent another out before they got the 1st one back. That is unheard of! Usually you have to wait for a company to get the damaged product back and have a fun time trying to get a new one in a timely manner. Thanks for staying on top of it while you were in WI having fun! Both you and PFO provide AWESOME customer service in my book :DScott, I just sent you a PM. I called PFO as soon as you notified me about the unit being trashed by UPS and as soon as they verified it was being sent back, they shipped a replacement. Yes, that's awesome of PFO. As for me staying on top of things, it's my job as a business owner. Thanks for the accolade though.

[Reefbaby]

Dick - what does Sue say about the tank lighting color? Does she feel that it's quite blue? Can you adjust the white balance on your camera and try another shot? I'd really love to see if it's just the camera's adjustment or if it's really the color of the LEDs.

How do you feel that your corals have responded to the new lighting? Any dramatic changes?

[Jarhead]

PFO offers 2 models of the Solaris a 13k and a 20k. I think Dick has the 20k unit which is what I ordered as well. A 20k tends to be more blue. That however is something I really like. UPS delivers mine tomorrow so I will give an update as to the blueness.

This is from the PFO faq on the solaris:
Q.
The Solaris units can be adjusted from 6.5K to 20K. What's the purpose of the 13K model?
A. The maximum PAR will be when you have all the LED's on. To adjust the LED from 20K to 6.5K you dim the Actinic Blue LED's. If a customer likes the 10-13K look, the customer would have to lose some PAR. The 13K model has fewer blues and more white LEDs which means they would start with more PAR at the 13K versus the 20K model.

[V]

the energy band is shifted for that very purpose on the 13k units, when i started reading i thought thats not right, dropping k and losing par values. then clarity in the next breath

[Stevej72]

Amp thanks for the pics that is a awesome system

[CarmieJo]

Dick, my husband is color blind too. After I realized that he thought my chromis were silver color I've tried to choose my fish & stuff keeping in mind if he will be able to enjoy it.

[CarmieJo]

And, I am saving up for one for my tank. I really like the whole idae. Gee, one more aquarium thing to play with!

[Amphibious]

Dick, my husband is color blind too. After I realized that he thought my chromis were silver color I've tried to choose my fish & stuff keeping in mind if he will be able to enjoy it.What a thoughtful wife.
And, I am saving up for one for my tank. I really like the whole idae. Gee, one more aquarium thing to play with!I'm a gadget person, too. I love new technology. These Solaris lights are something else. I set the lunar lights, both white and blues, very dim. Some of the corals fluoresce. It's so cool.

[Amphibious]

Dick - what does Sue say about the tank lighting color? Does she feel that it's quite blue? Can you adjust the white balance on your camera and try another shot? I'd really love to see if it's just the camera's adjustment or if it's really the color of the LEDs.

How do you feel that your corals have responded to the new lighting? Any dramatic changes?It's really not that blue to the naked eye. Many incidences of a camera "seeing" something different than the human eye occur regularly. I suspect that's the case here because the pic does look blue. I'll play with the colors over the next day or two and post more pics to see the difference.

I talked with Pat at PFO tonight. I asked him about that and he indicated two things, one, the human eye doesn't see the entire light spectrum of the blue range. Two, the LED light emitted does not appear as bright as MHs unless you look into them and you should not look into them. He said judge by the growth of your corals. It's to early for me to judge except to say, my corals look fine.

[Reefbaby]

Cool - thanks for the info Amp! Well, in any case, I'm super excited about this new technology. I think it is such a breakthrough for the aquarium hobby. I'll be really excited to see if you notice a difference (positive or negative) in the growth of your corals - or even the colors of them. If we ever move back to the US and I start a tank there, I'd be sure to invest in one of these power horses! :D

[Amphibious]

Cool - thanks for the info Amp! Well, in any case, I'm super excited about this new technology. I think it is such a breakthrough for the aquarium hobby. I'll be really excited to see if you notice a difference (positive or negative) in the growth of your corals - or even the colors of them. If we ever move back to the US and I start a tank there, I'd be sure to invest in one of these power horses! :DI'm really excited, too. I guess that's obvious because I ordered the very first one. It just seemed a winner what with the no heat transfer to the tank, minimum ten year bulb life and 40% energy savings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math. Even to an old pipefitter :D the savings were obvious.

My chiller ran 24/7 to keep up with the heat of Florida, pump, UV and the MHs. All ready I've noticed times when the chiller is off. Yeah!!! My electric bill for August was $364, yikes! Sue and I made a concerted effort to reduce consumption the last month. September's bill is $337, a fair savings just in turning room lights off and not leaving the TV on when we are not listening or watching it. I'll be watching the elec bill closely and report the findings here.

One thing pretty cool about the Solaris fixture is the LCD readout has the temp of the unit in degrees F. You know what temp is being generated by the LEDs and circuitry 24/7. the fans (4) are computer controlled and cycle off/on depending on the temp in the unit. Right now the Temp reading is 101 F and yet there is no heat under the unit. Is there a MH manufacturer willing to broadcast the operating temp of their unit? Hmmm, not to my recollection. :no: What are they trying to hide? Oh, the enormous amount of heat MHs generate.

I clever advertising ploy by the manufacturer of the MH unit I'm replacing (I won't mention the name, mainly because they all create heat), was to have me hold my hand on top of his unit. It was barely warm considering the heat of other manufacturers. I was impressed. What he did was to draw my attention away from the heat generated downward into the tank. His design blew the heat out the ends like all others but it wasn't any different than all the others. MHs generate a lot of heat and his over heated my tank water just like all MHs.

Stay tuned, more to come.

[howie]

Hello. I am new to this forum. I've learned alot from Talking Reef podcast and from this forum. Thanks everyone.
I am very interested in the Solaris too. I read that Sanjay said at MACNA that it had the intensity of a computer light. That it will be as good as metal halides in 4 to 5 years. Amphibous, how do your corals look so far? Particularly your clams and corals at the bottom of you tank. Thanks.

[Amphibious]

Hello. I am new to this forum. I've learned alot from Talking Reef podcast and from this forum. Thanks everyone.
I am very interested in the Solaris too. I read that Sanjay said at MACNA that it had the intensity of a computer light. That it will be as good as metal halides in 4 to 5 years. Amphibous, how do your corals look so far? Particularly your clams and corals at the bottom of you tank. Thanks.howie,
http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gif to Talking Reef Community and Podcast.

Hey, howie, we're glad you found us.

It's too early to really give an accurate judgment of the effects of the Solaris LEDs on corals and clams other than, there has been no change in their behavior. The coral polyps are extended and the clam's mantles are open wide as usual. This is only the second day I've had the lights on.

As far as Sanjay's remarks about being as good as MHs in 4 or 5 years, I think he's off a bit there. I'm in contact with Pat, the owner of PFO, who designed Solaris, and he's aware this is the first version of Solaris and it hasn't been put to the test. However, initial reports are very favorable. We discussed several design changes he intends to incorporate. I am not at liberty to say what they are because of confidentiality issues.

My personal opinion is the Solaris will soon put MHs to rest for most aquarists. I'm not of the opinion it will take 4 or 5 years.

[howie]

Thanks Amphibious for the great welcome and all the information. I look forward hearing from you.

[Jarhead]

Got my Solaris in today. It's not on a tank yet - I am building the new stand. I did plug it in and check it out. I think the level of blue in Amphibious' pictures was high. It DOES NOT look too blue. It is very bright and looks good. I should have it over water in about 2 weeks. I will post a few pics later tonight.

[Bernie]

Amp, looks very nice... Once price starts coming down on these units, I really do think they'll start giving other modes of lighting a run for their money...

[CarmieJo]

Hi Howie,

:welcome: to TR.

[CarmieJo]

Here is a review of the Solaris:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2

[Jarhead]

couple of pics I promised - no very revealing pictures, but the fixture does look great!

[Amphibious]

Here is a review of the Solaris:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2I appreciate the link to Dana's article, Carmie. I also linked to it in the first post. :D

[V]

yeah thats a well structured outfit! thanks for posting

[CarmieJo]

:doh: how did I miss that?

[Amphibious]

Well sweetie, don't beat yourself up over it. I thought it a good idea after I posted because people coming to this thread off the "New Post" thingie when you log on, might miss it because it takes you to the last post. Did that make any sense?

It's 1:15 am and I'm acclimating a couple of fish. Went up to Orlando for a meeting (1 1/2 hour drive one way). It was held at a LFS of all places to hold a meeting. Especially with my weakness. I picked up two beautiful fish (Condition wise). A Sohal Tang and A Copperbanded Butterfly. Both about 4", fat, eating and healthy. The store is one of the nicest I've seen since I've been in FL.

[CarmieJo]

I thought it a good idea after I posted because people coming to this thread off the "New Post" thingie when you log on, might miss it because it takes you to the last post. Did that make any sense?
Perfect sense.

So even though this lfs is in Orlando it's not a Mickey Mouse operation ? (Sorry, I couldn't resist) I am always excited to find a NICE new shop. I'm willing to drive just to patronize them. I love meetings at the lfs. We have 2 that currently host them and I usually walk out with something. I'm looking forward to seeing your new additions.

[V]

inside american joke between orlando and mickey mouse>?

yeah, i'll agree with meetings at LFS, when you have a great store it makes all the difference! im experiencing a bit of a trend change as of late, people seem to be becoming selective with what american gear thats imported. second only to german gear its becoming harder to break clear of the standard tunze stuff! and a real surge towards australian & some cheap ass asian crap! its good that aussie manufacturers are surging in the market these days, but the asian gear is commanding higher BS prices! i dont see asian "sprungs" promoting products, so i ask you, whats wrong with this picture? lol

[Stevej72]

inside american joke between orlando and mickey mouse>?

Disney World is in Orlando

[Amphibious]

Perfect sense.

So even though this lfs is in Orlando it's not a Mickey Mouse operation ? (Sorry, I couldn't resist) I am always excited to find a NICE new shop. I'm willing to drive just to patronize them. I love meetings at the lfs. We have 2 that currently host them and I usually walk out with something. I'm looking forward to seeing your new additions.M I C ....... K E Y ....... MOUSE! It just gets you in the mood, doesn't it?

I feel the same way about nice LFS. On a thread here yesterday, somebody was praising his LFS and then asked where to buy fish on line. It's like duh, :doh: (sorry, stole the smilie from you). I gave him a what for, hope he paid attention! Of course, you can occasionally find a good supplier on line but it's a crap shoot. Why not patronize your "good" LFS.

You're wish is my command. Here are the first shots of the new additions. I was up till 2:30 in the morning acclimating. My butt's a draggin this morning. :agree:

http://www.theculturedreef.com/CopperBand-1.jpg

The Copperband developed an owie of some kind by morning. I'll have to keep an eye on that.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/Sohal-1.jpg

Here's the Sohal zoooooming around. He looks great and is grazing algae this morning.

That's it for today. Sue and I are going to try our hand at Kayaking this afternoon. There are so many neat places in FL to get into with a kayak we thought we'd check out the purchase of two.

See ya later.

[CarmieJo]

Pretty fish!

Kayaking sounds like fun! have a good time.

[howie]

The MARSH reef club's forum who setup MACNA in Houston, has some pictures of the solaris next to metal halides. The comment the person made was that the solaris didn't look bright enough to support sps corals. Link is below.

http://www.marshreef.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=145975

[Reefbaby]

I LOVE sohal tangs Dick! Good buy! Would you rate a copperband an "expert" fish or do you have any precautionary suggestions/comments about them?

[Amphibious]

The MARSH reef club's forum who setup MACNA in Houston, has some pictures of the solaris next to metal halides. The comment the person made was that the solaris didn't look bright enough to support sps corals. Link is below.

http://www.marshreef.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=145975Thanks for the link to that thread howie. I'm glad that the poster of that thread included the words,
the LED lighting didn't look bright to keep sps - imo."In my opinion", being his key words. We all know how the human eye can be tricked compared to actual results, and readings from PAR meters. Par is a better indicator of suitability for SPS growth than relative brightness the eye can see. PAR is higher on Solaris than MHs. Another and even better indicator of the effectiveness of the LED lights is in actual use. I've had my Solaris LED fixture over my corals for only 8 days and I see a difference. I replaced a MH fixture with 3 175 watt 10K and 4 39 watt Actinics. At first I thought the same thing, not enough light. I talked to Pat of PFO and he explained the difference. MH light is multi-directional and bounces all over the place. Much of it reaches the eye through the glass tricking our eye into believing it's brighter than it is. LED light is directional. In the case of Solaris, straight down. Don't anyone do this!!! If you looked directly into the array of LEDs you would come away with a different opinion of their relative brightness compared to equivalent MHs. :eek: Please, don't do it!

I have 36 LE and rare SPS corals and I will dispute anyones claim they won't grow SPS corals. I can see growth in the last week plus, I'm getting better polyp extension than before. My Recordia are open better, my Zoanthids are bigger, My Neon Green Sarcophyton is growing better. My more common corals, Branching Hammer, 2 Frog Spawn are more extended. Then there's another benefit I should mention, my chiller has actually cycled off for the first time since April when I put it on because of MH heat issues. It ran 24/7 before. I'm certainly expecting a drop in my energy bill which last month was $364, ouch!!!

Apparent brightness isn't always better.

[Amphibious]

I LOVE sohal tangs Dick! Good buy! Would you rate a copperband an "expert" fish or do you have any precautionary suggestions/comments about them?I love Sohals too. Copperbands can be finicky eaters. The smaller they are the harder to acclimate to tank life. Many are still coming from areas where cyanide is still in use. So, it's a crap shoot. this one is fairly big, about 4" tip to tip. He was also cheap $21.99 plus a 20% club discount. Just couldn't resist. I'm paying for it now. :( I haven't seen him eat, the transfer to his new home causes stress and he's going through some stress induced trauma. It shows up as areas of raised scales that look sore and some pimple like protrusions around his head. They come and go, don't seem to bother him. They bother me more. I really need to get my act together and set up a quarantine system. He's maintaining weight and goes around looking for food and occasionally picks at the rock and in the sand. I'm hopeful. The sohal on the other hand is grazing on micro and macro algae in the tank and looks fat and sassy. He, too, is about 4" and cost $120 less 20%, so $96. Good price for a Sohal.

The LFS held a reef club meeting and upped their usual 10% discount to members to 20% for the night. Great turnout. This club ORCA (Orlando Reef Caretakers Association) is big and into frag auctions. Members bring frags they want to sell and they auction them off at the end. I didn't count but they easily auctioned off 150 frags. They went from $2 to $35. The club keeps half the proceeds.

Their had to be 75 people there. It was a good time. Food, beer, soft drinks and camaraderie.

[howie]

After looking at the pics for the solaris more closely (especially the last one). I think that person is incorrect. The solaris looks slightly brighter than the MH. I don't know if it is the angle at which they took the picture or what but to me it looks slightly brighter.
She also mentioned that PFO is going to introduce LED fixture equal to 400watt MH.
Amphibous, since you are in contact with PFO, do you know when this will be available?

[Amphibious]

After looking at the pics for the solaris more closely (especially the last one). I think that person is incorrect. The solaris looks slightly brighter than the MH. I don't know if it is the angle at which they took the picture or what but to me it looks slightly brighter.
She also mentioned that PFO is going to introduce LED fixture equal to 400watt MH.
Amphibous, since you are in contact with PFO, do you know when this will be available?I agree. I was going to mention it but wanted someone else to see it first.

I'm in touch with Pat regularly and we talked just before MACNA. He hasn't set a production date yet. There are some issues with the 400 watt unit he has to work out. It isn't real soon, I know that much. I will announce any change as soon as I know it.

[CarmieJo]

We all know how the human eye can be tricked compared to actual results, and readings from PAR (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31755#) meters. Par (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31755#) is a better indicator of suitability for SPS growth than relative brightness the eye can see. PAR (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31755#) is higher on Solaris than MHs (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31755#)
Somewhere I saw a photo from MACNA that showed a meter on MH & Solaris and actually showed how much more PAR the Solaris had. I remember that it was a significant difference but I don't remember the numbers. :(

[Amphibious]

Maybe it was from my web site? Here's the link http://www.theculturedreef.com/pfo.htm

[Reefbaby]

has PFO hinted at all as to whether they will try the European market? I'm sure it would be even more popular here, since our electricity costs are even greater than in the US! (hint hint!)

[Amphibious]

has PFO hinted at all as to whether they will try the European market? I'm sure it would be even more popular here, since our electricity costs are even greater than in the US! (hint hint!)Hi Christi,

I'll relay your hint to Pat and get his response.

By the way, I suspect my Copperband was cyanide caught. It's got swollen grey patches in the dorsal area. :( It quit eating, too. Damn cyanide collectors!

[Reefbaby]

Can you get him out and into a small Q-tank? maybe that way you could beef him up a bit?

[Amphibious]

Once cyanide caught fish show symptoms there as good as gone. There is no cure for the destruction cyanide does. He was really suffering and I ended his misery a bit ago. :(

The cheap price should have been a tip off, although some LFSs would have had him much higher. I hate cyanide collection!!! :mad:

[Reefbaby]

oh man! I'm so sorry Dick! That really sucks. Are you going to contact the LFS?

[V]

trajic loss Amp, ive never experienced it first hand, its more restricted to monkey magic land and our waters provide a buffer of abundance anyways. the risks to the collectors can be high so its got to be brain dead people or worst still struggling people that perform such practices.
where do you think it came from? i think its about time we micro-dot our fish, that way you know it comes from a reputable catching network with a quick scan!

[CarmieJo]

Maybe it was from my web site? Here's the link http://www.theculturedreef.com/pfo.htm

Well now, that is quite possibly where I saw it. :)

[CarmieJo]

Aww I am sorry that you lost your copperbanded. That really stinks.

[Amphibious]

oh man! I'm so sorry Dick! That really sucks. Are you going to contact the LFS?Thanks RB. I agree! I made a classic mistake in judgment at the LFS. I let my desire get ahead of better judgment. He was big, ate a couple of live brine and I figured I could get him through the adjustment period. I should have guessed that at 21.99 he was too much of a bargain to be net caught. A classic stupid mistake. Yes, even the "old man" with all his experience, will let his desire to have, get in the way. I've wanted a CBB for a long time. To answer your other question, the LFS is 2 hours away and I doubt at that price he's going to do anything.

Thanks V and Carmie.

[Olsen]

A 250 watt HQI use around approx 250 watt, but how many watt does the 72" Solaris LED system use?

Greetings :-)

[Amphibious]

A 250 watt HQI use around approx 250 watt, but how many watt does the 72" Solaris LED system use?

Greetings :-)Olsen, http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gif to Talking Reef Community and Podcast.

In terms of output 250 watts. In terms of energy consumption 40% less than the equivilant 250 watt MH.

[Olsen]

Nice welcome... I have not seen that kind of welcome animation at any danish forum - Thank you :)

But is the 72" Solaris LED system equal to one, two or three HQI 250 watt lamps? Im trying to figure out the advantages.

[Amphibious]

Nice welcome... I have not seen that kind of welcome animation at any danish forum - Thank you :)

But is the 72" Solaris LED system equal to one, two or three HQI 250 watt lamps? I'm trying to figure out the advantages.Hey, you're welcome for the welcome.:) That's how we are here at TR.

Hmmmm, don't know how to answer that one. I'll bring it up with PFO and get back to you if I can remember because I talked to Pat today. He is going on a trip to China to work out some Solaris details. Not sure when he will call me again.

[Amphibious]

For those wondering when PFO is coming out with the 400 watt Solaris LED unit. Here's a direct quote, "I hate to make a definite date because of all the hassle we had getting the 250's out. So, I'd have to just say, some time in the future." I pressured him a little for a month and he said they are shooting for January, subject to change. He just got a commitment letter for 10,000 400 watt LEDs from the manufacturer. He said a lot depends on when they deliver on their commitment.

He' heading back to China, his least favorite place to visit, to work out some production problems with the units. He said he'd call when he gets back.

[Olsen]

Thats okay. Then I will be waiting, and I am looking forward to know what he says regarding my question above.

Greetings

Olsen

[Amphibious]

Olsen,

Knowing Pat would be busy getting ready for his trip, I emailed him last night and asked him your question about what MH fixture would the Solaris fixtures replace.

He responded, each size Solaris replaces the equivalent MH fixture.

So the answer to you're question above would be a 72" 250W 20K Solaris fixture replaces a 72" MH fixture with 3 250W MHs or smaller wattage. That would hold true down through the other sizes.

That's what I thought the answer would be but, I wanted to give you facts rather than conjecture.

As far as advantages, they are;

1. 40% energy savings over the equivalent MH fixture.
2. Adjustable color temperature from 6.5K to 20K.
3. Computer programmable for sunrise, daytime sun, number of cloudy periods per day, length of cloudy periods, sunset, moonlights, moonlight relative brightness, moonlight length, darkness, moonlights on just before sunrise.
4. On automatic, unit is set to coincide with current sun/moon phase. Simply set the date and time and it is preprogrammed.
5. Bulb life of 50,000 hours minimum.
6. Four computer controlled fans for cooling.
7. No heat transfer to the aquarium.

Pat, an engineer under his employment and an engineer in China, worked for two years getting the Solaris units to market. He has $100's of thousands of dollars invested before the first unit was sold.

While the Solaris units are expensive I figure they will save you the difference in price in a short period of time. I don't know how long it would take but, is there any MH unit that can save you anything? I'll let you decide that one.

Hope this helps clear things up.

[CarmieJo]

Hi Olsen,

:welcome: to TR. We are glad you are here.

[triggerdiver]

Amphibious, I'm still wondering about your 20k. As you know I have the 13k Solaris, 72", and I was wondering, how much blue does your 20k actually give off. I'm wanting blue, but will I be getting more blue than what I'm wanting? On one of your pictures of your tank, what did you dial the color temp down to when you took that picture?

Jeff

[Amphibious]

triggerdiver

http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gif to Talking Reef Community and Podcast.

Jeff and I have been PMing each other while he waited to get the link to become active. Great to have you with us, Jeff.

To answer your question about the blue the 20K unit gives off, the two pictures on page one of this thread are the full spectrum of the Solaris unit. Will it be more than you're wanting is too subjective to answer. How ever if it is too blue you can program out the blues individually by percentage. It's factory set at 100% and goes down by 1% increments to what ever you want. Let your eyes be the judge. The same with day whites, Lunar whites and Lunar blues. It's very easy to program. You can program in what ever look suits your fancy.

[triggerdiver]

Ok, well I agree it is VERY easy to program. VERY user friendly. This lighting system is completely wonderful. I love every aspect of it and I do enjoy my 13k. I keep looking at my tank wondering if I should even change to a 20k, I love my 13k Solaris system! So the pics one page one of this topic is with ALL the lights at 100% ? I think the pics looked amazing, a little too blue for my taste, for my tank I would want a tad less blue than that. I guess that would be for me to tune the blues down a bit on the 20k. But again, I cannot say enough about the Solaris to my friends, all who are envious with their Metal Halides on their tanks. I really don't want to get rid of my 13k, but for taste, personally, I would like more blue.

Jeff

[triggerdiver]

And your prices are very reasonable as well, Amphibious!!!!! I have friends wanting a system as well. I'll direct them to you? Thanks

Jeff

[Amphibious]

Thank you, Jeff. That would be greatly appreciated.

Dick

[CarmieJo]

Hi Jeff,

:welcome: to TR.

[triggerdiver]

Thanks to all for the the welcome. I've recently had a bad experience on another forum, so hopefully this will be more of a positive experience.

[Rob]

welcome to Talkingreef..
we work very hard to make this a very friendly and helpful place. if you ever have any problems or questions feel free to contact any of the moderators or forum leaders for assistance.

now back to your regularly schedule TR Thread...

[triggerdiver]

Well, I have a 13k Solaris, and I know here, I won't get stoned for owning one :) I just wanted to share my experience, not expertise, about my Solaris in case any one had questions or was considering buying one. But, again, thanks for the welcome. It feels good being part of a forum that starts off great.

Jeff

[Stevej72]

Jeff Welcome to TR

[howie]

Welcome triggerdiver!

I am looking at the Solaris 48" 20K myself. For a 120 gallon I am going to start up. I haven't placed an order yet mainly because I wanted see if people like yourself like it or not. I am not in a hurry so I figured I will learn from others.

How do you like it? Please be as details possible. Thanks!

[Amphibious]

I have a question howie, are the dimensions of your 120 the standard 48 x 24 x 24?

[gwen_o_lyn]

I just got back from an ARC meeting and Kevin (kj_yoda) was saying they put a PAR meter under this light and a MH 150w at MACNA, and the LED's had 3 times the amount of par. Very nice! I'm almost sold, but something tells me to wait until all the bugs are worked out.

[Amphibious]

I just got back from an ARC meeting and Kevin (kj_yoda) was saying they put a PAR meter under this light and a MH 150w at MACNA, and the LED's had 3 times the amount of par. Very nice! I'm almost sold, but something tells me to wait until all the bugs are worked out.I'm not sure of the exact number Gwen but, I know it's considerably higher.

I'm really pleased with the growth of my corals in just three weeks. I'm doing some photos of after and will post before and after photos soon.

[gwen_o_lyn]

look forward to seeing those.

[howie]

Yes it is Amphibious. A 120 gallon 48x 24x 24 AGA. Well actually, I haven't purchased it yet. But that is the size tank I am planning on setting up over the next few months. Why do you ask?

[ereefic]

What is a new bank of LED's going to run you when they die? Should you start saving now? :dance:

Also, from what I remember at IMAC and the solaris, the PAR seemed to drop off quicker the deeper into the tank with the Solaris than the MH. There were getting better readings above the water, but once below the MH did better. Amp, got a PAR meter to do some testing?

[Amphibious]

Yes it is Amphibious. A 120 gallon 48x 24x 24 AGA. Well actually, I haven't purchased it yet. But that is the size tank I am planning on setting up over the next few months. Why do you ask?Curiosity, that's all.
What is a new bank of LED's going to run you when they die? Should you start saving now?All you have to do is put away your energy and MH bulb savings and you can buy a second unit. :rotfl:

Seriously, they are warrantied for two years and by the time an unexpected failure happens the cost should be down from whatever it is now. I don't know what that is now, never asked.

Not sure about the PAR in lower levels but at MACNA they were showing PAR higher than MH but don't know the details. I'm going to buy a PAR meter as soon as I find one that's water proof.

[howie]

Amphibious,
Do you think the 120gallon tank will be too deep for the 48" Solaris?
How high is your tank?

[triggerdiver]

Howie, my tank is 24" deep and I have corals growing beautifully all around the tank, both at the very bottom and of course up at top. I have not seen my mushrooms and frogspawn expand this much! And I had VHOs a few months back and just a couple a weeks ago, I had them under MHs. And with the Solaris, I have beautiful growth. Not forgetting to mention, I haven't had to even touch the Solaris like the MHs, I never have to push any buttons! It's great, it just cycles through the day.

[triggerdiver]

Here are a couple pics of my 13k Solaris. Please forgive the dimness of these pictures. I have a very poor camera. The tank is quite brighter than the picture itself describes. This is my 220 gallon DAS tank that I've just started as a reef about 3 months ago. It's a slow process, but I'll get there eventually. Again, these pics are very poor quality and you cannot see most of the corals. Sorry

[ereefic]

Triggerdiver, are those pics accurate of the true color? They look 6500k'ish to me.

[howie]

They look great! The color is perfect. I don't like the super blue. To me the white light pleasing to the eyes.
Keep posting the pictures!

[howie]

They are very bright too!

BTW.. I saw a couple of pictures of someone frogspawn on another forum. One was under MH and the other was under his new Solaris.

I put the pics side by side and the one under the Solaris was awesome. The colors were so rich under the Solaris. Under the MH it's color looked washed out.

[triggerdiver]

The tank is a tad bit brighter in person. That may have even been under cloud coverage. I had just gotten home and took the pics. I think it's the camera, but believe me, the tank is brighter :) The MHs I had were 3x250 HQIs (15k) with 4x96W power compacts and my take was a little too blue, not to mention, my water temperature got pretty warm in one day of use. At first, I'll be honest about the Solaris, I wasn't too pleased with the brightness, but then as each hour went by, I was so happy and glad I had it. And it's really not that bad. It's just a matter of taste. Some like more blue, some like white. Either one is great as long as your happy.

[triggerdiver]

Amphibious, I was wondering, have you had, or heard of people having success with SPS corals? I've heard different things that the Solaris CAN grow them just fine, and then skeptics saying they CAN'T. I really have no idea, so I was just wondering.

[Amphibious]

Amphibious, I was wondering, have you had, or heard of people having success with SPS corals? I've heard different things that the Solaris CAN grow them just fine, and then skeptics saying they CAN'T. I really have no idea, so I was just wondering.The Solaris lighting system has only been out about a month so, there won't be much to report on. However, I am noticing great growth in my SPS corals. Here is an example of an easy coral but, notice the growth in one month's time. Remember I didn't get my Solaris until the end of Sept.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/Montipora-IdahoGrape9-15-06.jpg

This picture of the Limited Edition (LE) coral Idaho Grape Montipora taken on Sept 15th.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/IdahoGrape-10-12-06-1.jpg

The same coral taken today, October 12th.

Admittedly, Montipora corals are easy to grow but, most of that growth has happened under the Solaris.

[Amphibious]

OK, we covered an easy coral and now lets silence the skeptics. At least the ones willing to admit they don't know what they are talking about! :rotfl: There will always be those that think they know everything with out personal experience.

Again, everyone please remember, the Solaris units have only been out for one month. Not one person can say they don't grow SPS corals. Dana Riddle gave his test unit a favorable report. Sanjey Joshi was a bit skeptical in his report. I respect both men's credentials and their viewpoints. So, below is an Acropora species, commonly referred to as, ORA Tri-color.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/ORA-TriColor-1.jpg

The first, when it was purchased in July.


http://www.theculturedreef.com/ORA-TriColor-9-10-06.jpg

Two months under 175W MH, 10K, lights on 14 hours a day. Taken some time in Sept.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/ORA-TriColor-Hitch'hiker-4.jpg

Three weeks under Solaris 250W 20K lights timed to the current day length plus moonlights. Picture taken today, October, 12th.

Like FOX news says, "We report, you decide". What do you think? I'm open to all remarks.

Well, as long as they don't hurt my feelings. :rotfl:

[Reefbaby]

well...I'll save my comment re: Fox News for another time, but....

I think your tri-color looks spectacular. The three weeks of growth compared to the two months of growth is quite remarkable! (and your little crab is nicely visible as well!)
I think you have nice polyp extension under both lighting, but it definitely does look as if there's been more growth!

Great shots Dick! :D

[triggerdiver]

Well, to me, it seems to favor the Solaris :)

[howie]

I definitely see growth. But what is more important is that the coral itself looks much happier in the solaris.

[CarmieJo]

I also prefer the look of the corals under your Solaris.

[Small Fry]

well, looks like i gotsta start saving :( grrrrr, minimum wage ($7.25/hr) @ 20-30 hours a week (wow, i just realised i work alot) that will only take me like.......20 weeks............ grrrrrrrrr

I will start taking donations now. Why you may ask??? welll.........You willl benefit by knowing you have aided a poor child in his uber-aquarium-iness.

For only $2 you can help a boy like Josh (insert sad picture of me) buy his lighting fixture, and save him (his parents ;) ) from huge electrical bills.

Okay, so whos convinced :D

[gwen_o_lyn]

lol Josh, now get back to work!!

Stay in school and things will only get better.

[Small Fry]

Is that a maybe?? :p

[Rob]

you almost got me Josh, i thought.. hey, i really should give him 2 bux
then i thought of all the stuff my tank needs... ;)

[Amphibious]

You get an E for effort, Small Fry. :agree:

[CarmieJo]

Just think, you could be in the US where minimum wage is $5.15. :)

[howie]

Someone on RC just posted pics of her corals under MH and then under Solaris.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=876845&perpage=25&highlight=solaris&pagenumber=9

[Reefbaby]

the most impressive picture for me (even more so than the coral expansion) was how the color contrasts of her frogspawn were exemplified under the LEDs. Wow! Beautiful colors.

[Amphibious]

I just posted a response on that RC thread. I used the Tri-color set of three pics from my post here on page 5 so people can see the growth and better colors coming out of the coral.

[NaClFinatic]

Someone on RC just posted pics of her corals under MH and then under Solaris.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=876845&perpage=25&highlight=solaris&pagenumber=9

The two week difference is amazing. Does anyone know if that is the 20k or 13k fixture? I did't see it mentioned, but it looks pretty blue so I would guess 20k...

[Amphibious]

We both have the 20K.

[howie]

Amp,

Do you know what type of new features (if any) PFO is going to put into the 400watt equivalent Solaris?

[Amphibious]

No, howie, Pat hasn't offered any changes in our conversations and I didn't think of asking. I will next time we speak, when he gets back from China.

[chris]

Hi All,
I am new to TalkingReef. I actually stumbled on to this site researching the Solaris lights. After reading for a while I decided to sign up. I am a member of Reefcentral and reefs.org but everyone just seems friendlier here.:tongue2: I have been keeping reefs since 1993 and it's amazing to me how fast technology has advanced. I was keeping SPS under VHO lighting for years. It seems like not so long ago we were all excited about the new power compacts. I believe Mr. Riddles remark in his article is an understatement, that many aquarist over do it on the lighting. A few years back I fell into the Metal Halide trap myself. I can remember second guessing my decision and pretty much spending hours of time convincing myself (and my wife) that MH's were the way to go. I think a lot of the adversity that the Solaris is getting from people like Sanjay may be due to the years of convincing themselves and everyone around them that they were doing the right thing by spending 1,000's of $$$ and having to deal with all the drawbacks that MH's bring. Such as HEAT and the Electric Bill $$$. I know I have spent many a months end (when the electric bill comes) convincing my wife of how bad we HAVE to have the heat lamps for the sake of the corals. Of course her reply always being, we never needed them before, and she was probably right. We didn't.
Metal Halides do make the tanks beautiful for the human eye. But with my personal observations I really haven't seen a huge difference in health of the organisms. Maybe if we were all running Coral Farms and had to have every little bit of growth it would make some difference, but I really doubt it. Polyp extension in all the pictures I've seen are just as good or better with the Solaris. And I have always believed that replicating natural sunlight and moonlight is very important. Some people tell me I'm full of it, but there has to be benefits to replicating sunlight as the Solaris does. I'm sure there a scientists out there that would tell me I'm way off, but I honestly don't see the difference in my tanks.(from VHO to MH)
I really believe that Amp is spot on with his observations of the Solaris, even if he is selling them.:rotfl: To get rid of the heat, cut down on the electric bill, simulate natural sunlight, and to never have to deal with timers makes it all worth it. And if you price out 3 250 watt halide pendants with ballasts, bulbs, etc... + your electric bill and bulb replacement for the cost of a 72 inch Solaris it isn't as hard to convince yourself or your wife. What would be great is if I could sell all these pendants I already have.:up: I really believe Solaris and other LED Solutions are the way of the future. I think it will definately help our corals grow, and most importantly our marriages.

[chris]

I forgot to tell you Amphibious that I really enjoyed reading through the setup of your newest tank. Beautiful tank.

[V]

hey chris, welcome to our wonder land, where the beers flowing and the eskimos are digging an ice box for the new keg. dont worry about deffecting, we are all pooled from different sites includng the ones u mentioned cause robs created a pleasent atmoshphere that we as members stive to uphold! bsides the beers colder here! http://www.alexander-oberg.de/smileys/Haeh.gif

nice speech, some valid points u nailed there! your not going to get flamed for MH bashing, cause at the end of the day, we as reefers are only interested in 2 things, the health of the animals we are keeping, and the visual impact we strive to create! if u nail both of them with the tools of your chosing, thats fantastic!

we were talking about this the other day actually, that people fall into to fields, those that look objectivly, test, assess, & adapt.
and then there are those that follow trends both in script and habbits!

welcome anyways, hope your enjoy your stay with us!

[chris]

Thanks for the nice reply veriann. I really don't want to bash anyones preferences. The post was just my opinion from my personal experience. I just don't think SPS needs 400 watt MH's to be healthy.
You have a super forum here. I have stayed up way too late going through the site. LOL :p
I am going to be setting up a new tank soon. I am moving in January and will have to do the dreaded teardown of my current tanks. If it's alright with everyone maybe I will be able to start a thread on the new setup like Amps. For now I gotta get some sleep. Thanks again for your kindness.

[Amphibious]

Chris,

http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gifto Talking Reef Community and Podcast.

To many, this forum has become like a tropical island resplendent in a harsh sea scape after a violent storm. Very diverse community of people from all lands have taken refuge here, looking for a respite from less friendly sites. You will soon feel like family. Our Master does a great job of keeping sibling rivalry to a minimum. Although, some of us drive him up a wall. :wall: Not mentioning any names, though. :no:

I really believe that Amp is spot on with his observations of the Solaris, even if he is selling them.:rotfl: To get rid of the heat, cut down on the electric bill, simulate natural sunlight, and to never have to deal with timers makes it all worth it. And if you price out 3 250 watt halide pendants with ballasts, bulbs, etc... + your electric bill and bulb replacement for the cost of a 72 inch Solaris it isn't as hard to convince yourself or your wife. What would be great is if I could sell all these pendants I already have.:up: I really believe Solaris and other LED Solutions are the way of the future. I think it will definitely help our corals grow, and most importantly our marriages.Thanks, Chris, I believe the Solaris is the light wave of the future. Yes, pricey now but, I know PFO is working on that issue. It's only natural that a manufacturer would try to lower the price of the current unit or come out with a less deluxe version to capture market share before competition does.

Again, Chris, welcome to our forum.

[Amphibious]

We've all wondered about PFO's claim of energy savings of 40% over equivalent MHs. Here's some proof that the Solaris saves energy.

I receive my electric bill via e-mail on the 21st of each month. My September electric bill was $364 for the previous month. I placed the Solaris into operation on September 27th. I just received my October bill for Septembers usage. It is $297. If all other things remained equal that's a significant savings considering it is for a 24 day period of running the Solaris. I'm impressed and happy. :D

On a 30 day cycle this should compute to about an $80 savings per month. This is exciting. I think I'll go out and treat myself. Oh wait a minute, I treated myself yesterday. I bought a second Marine Beta (Calloplesiops altivelis) and a starfish labeled Magnificent Brittle Star. I'll do pictures later on my tank thread.

Sue is up in MN for family get-to-gether. I guess I could treat myself to breakfast out this morning. When the Queen's away the King will be a slacker. :rotfl:

[Stevej72]

Amp do you get the shimmer effect with the Solaris?

[Amphibious]

Yes. Shimmer effect is actually caused by light reflecting off surface disturbance. Even though MHs cause more shimmer than LEDs, all you have to do is increase surface disturbance and the LEDs produce enough shimmer to satisfy me.

[V]

good call, they are beautiful units, series 2 is mine, yoday ive just bought a wopping big plastic container that easerly puts my display to shame in the volume department. the house transfer of my stock will go outside for awhile till i finish painting and maybe enough of a push to get off my ass and buy another house! after the storage tub has fullfilled its usefulness i'll mount it in a frame and turn it into a frag hut! so i'll be requireing 2 of the longest S-units u have Ampage!

good news on the power bill coming down. have your any sparky friends that use that funky hand held device to tell you how much power your using per socket? it can be a real time perspective on units that draw to much juice for comfort!

[CarmieJo]

Hi Chris,

:welcome: to TR. Thanks for your perspective on the lighting. I think you on the money about it.

[Stevej72]

Hay Chris welcome to TR

[gwen_o_lyn]

Welcome Chris ;)

[chris]

You guys are great, thanks all for the greetings.
Amp, I'm sure you have played with all the adjustments on your Solaris. Can you see a noticible difference when adjusting some of the blue out on the 20K Solaris. Also I have been assuming that the 72" Solaris would cover around 2 foot of the width of the tank. I have always used that rule of thumb for MH. (2ftX2ft) How wide is your Solaris. I am hoping to get a wider tank built for my next tank. Maybe 48". I'm not sure yet.
I'm assuming also that your 180 is the standard 24 inches deep. The light at the bottom of your tank looks sufficient. I have never liked tanks that are deeper than 24". To much of a pain to clean and move stuff around. The one I have now is 30" and I cuss it a lot.:D Anyway... thanks for any more info.

[Small Fry]

im curious as to your tank chris.. looks big and like a gorge type of set up, (im assuming the one in your sig is your tank) i vote for a tank journal

[chris]

Hi Guys, No the Sig Pic Isn't my tank. It is probably my favorite of many I've seen on the web. If you want to see more pics of it look at http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_gallery.htm
I was worried that some would think that pic is my tank. I will change it. I just didnt have any pics handy on this work laptop. I have a 150 gal and a 125 gallon at the moment. (both are glass) The 125 is a live rock and fish set-up and the 150 is mostly SPS tank, with several LPS. The stands and canopies are special to me because they were built by myself and a good friend of mine that recently passed away. He owned a LFS and had a woodshop in his garage. The stands and canopies are SOLID to say the least. The canopy on the 150 is 18 inches tall. It holds 3 250W MH Spider reflectors with icecap ballasts running Hamilton 14,000K bulbs. It also houses 4 55 watt PC with actinics, and a moonlight. It has a shallow sandbed, and around 200 lbs of mixed Fiji, and marshal island live rock. For circulation It has a Wave2k center unit and 2 Seio 820 powerheads. I built the sumps in the cabinet out of acrylic. One sump houses an Aquac EV-180 Skimmer with a mag drive 950 pump, and a Korralin C1501 calcium reactor. I inject ozone in the Aqua-C with a Red Sea 200 mg/hr Aquazone Deluxe ozonizer. In the other sump I have a Euroreef RC135 Skimmer, and a Divider with a 10 gal fresh water compartment/ water change/quarantine. I use that compartment for a lot of different things. The heat is provided by 2 500 watt proheat titanium heaters. All water is provided by a Kent Marine 75 GPD RODI. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate stay at 0. Calcium, PH, and ORP are constantly monitored by American Marine pinpoint monitors. PH swings from 8.2 to 8.4. Salinity @ 1.024. Calcium stays around 400-420 and alk at 10. Orp stays at 375. As far as the inhabitants I have a pretty big bioload. One Sailfin tang, one sohal tang, one powder blue tang, one chochlate mimic tang, 3 red anthias, 2 percula clowns, 1 goby, 100+ assorted snails, and 30 hermit crabs. I recently removed all the soft corals I had and have been rebuilding. I wasn't happy with the aquascaping and wanted to have a more sps dominant tank. I changed out some of the LR and have been collecting some frags. My favorite coral is actually a Hammer that I have had for a few years. It is around 15 inches in length. I have never seen one as big. We keep waiting for it to split but it never does.
The 125 is pretty much my wifes tank. She always wants the fish that we can't have. LOL It has PC lighting. It has a shallow sand bed with around 80lbs LR. The sump is a converted Amiracle W/D filter. It houses a Euroreef RC135 and ozone is injected with a aquazone deluxe 100mg/hr ozonizer. It houses her Volitan Lionfish, Niger Trigger, and Porcupine Puffer. It's her baby pretty much.
We are moving in January and I am probably going to get a tank built or build one myself for the new house. It's going to be a bummer moving these tanks LOL. I will probably get a scaled down tank in the same deminsions of the Oregon Reef Tank in my Signature Picture.

Sorry for any confusion.. Thanks

[howie]

Chris, in your description you said you are using a wave2k. How do you like it? I am planning on getting two center units for a 120 gallon 48x24x24.

[Reefbaby]

Welcome to TR Chris! It's great to have you here! Look forward to seeing pics of your tanks as well! (You can start your own thread in the member's tank journals!) hint hint....

I agree with you re: your synopsis of the LED system. I only wish I could get my hands on one! :D

[chris]

I like the wave2k. I had to re-aquascape a bit when I got it. The lower port would have been wasted by a wall of LR. I haven't had any troubles out of it. I would like to get 2 corner units but I don't understand why they cost more but put out less flow. Just doesn't make sense to me. I will post some pics of the tank if I ever get off this job I'm on. I work a lot, and all over the country so I miss a lot with my tank, and the family. This forum is nice to make some friends and be able to keep in touch.

[CarmieJo]

I like the wave2k. I had to re-aquascape a bit when I got it. The lower port would have been wasted by a wall of LR. I haven't had any troubles out of it. I would like to get 2 corner units but I don't understand why they cost more but put out less flow. Just doesn't make sense to me. I will post some pics of the tank if I ever get off this job I'm on. I work a lot, and all over the country so I miss a lot with my tank, and the family. This forum is nice to make some friends and be able to keep in touch.

One of the great things about TR IMO is that there is a community here. I'm glad that you are feeling at home with us. :)

[chris]

I have been a member of several forums but never really spoke up much. Just constantly researching and seeing what others are doing. Reading amps thread an his new tank made me think this might be a good place to speak up a little. I'm not up to par on some of the functions of this site. I dont even know what a podcast is.LOL I'm assuming it's something to do with the ipod. I guess I need to get out more.LOL

[CarmieJo]

A podcast is like a radio show that you download and listen to on your Ipod. :) I download several but TR is my favorite. But, you don't have to listen to be a member of the forum.

[Reefbaby]

A podcast is like a radio show that you download and listen to on your Ipod. :) I download several but TR is my favorite. But, you don't have to listen to be a member of the forum.

AND you don't have to have an iPod to listen to the shows....anything that plays a MP3 file...even your computer! :up:

[Amphibious]

A podcast is like a radio show that you download and listen to on your Ipod. :) I download several but TR is my favorite. But, you don't have to listen to be a member of the forum.Or, you don't have to be a member to listen either. ;)

OK, we've strayed off subject, time to get this thread back on track. It's the Solaris LED thread, remember? :agree: Here's an update.

All my corals seem to be responding favorably to the Solaris. My clams are extending their mantles fully, the zoas and softies are all looking great. Here's a pic from just before the Solaris arrived.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/ORA-TriColor-9-10-06.jpg

It's an Acropora tri-color.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/ORA-Tricolor-10-21-06-2.jpg

Here it is as of a couple of days ago. This growth is after about 27 days of being under the Solaris LEDs. I think it's showing better color, too.

[Amphibious]

Oh, I should have added, my tank parameters are stable at.

Ph = 8.31 Pinpoint meter
Am = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5
Magnesium = 1350
Cal = 500
Alk = 4
Salinity = 1.025

Like a rock!

[howie]

Amp, That looks awesome! I see the growth. Thanks for the updates.

[chris]

Nice pics amp. Good to see you are having positive results.

[howie]

Ltpiper on RC posted a video on You Tube of his Solaris. It is to demonstrate the glitter lines. I wonder if it is a 20K or a 13K.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfc05nBkp4

[chris]

I've been researching the Luxeon LED's that are in the Solaris. They look to be 3 watt emitters with Fraen 45 degree wide lenses. Here's a pic of the Fraen lenses. Which you can buy here. http://www.luxeonstar.com In fact most all you need is accesible by Google.

[chris]

Luxeon's are the brightest LED's on the market. Although there are brighter Luxeons. They have 5 watt LED's that put out 130 Lumens. The ones I'm seeing though have a heatsink on the back. I dont think you could get them in as tight of a cluster as the 3 watt emitters. But with the wide lense and more output you might not need to. You might be able to buy the emitter and design a different heatsink. Luxeon's website has a lot of literature for any DIY people. You can buy luxeon light fixtures here. I might buy a cheap one just to see how it's put together. I've only dealt with LED's in computer cases. http://www.luxeonstar.com/sub_category.php?id=285&link_str=285
There are also led light controllers that i have been reading about for dimming different led's. Some are programmable. It seems that all the parts you need are out there. For any tech savvy people. Maybe icecap and some of the competitors are working on led's and the price will come down from a little competition.

The Bottom Picture is a Luxeon K2 Star that puts out 130 Lumens. I may be wrong but the 3 watt LED's that I see on Luxeon's site say the put out 65 Lumens. Maybe AMP can get some of these answers from PFO. Or anyone that owns a Solaris can look and compare from the pics on the site. Thanks

[chris]

Here is a pic of a Luxeon K2 without the star heatsink. I finally found it. They are 5 watt and the product guide pdf says it puts out 140 lumens. You can buy them at the same link in the post above. So from what I'm seeing these might be the next wave of brighter LED Aquarium Lighting. You would be able to cluster these and make a custom heatsink. Correct me if I'm wrong but everything I'm seeing about the Solaris is saying 3 watt LED's. The Advanced Aquarist article said 3 watt LED but it also said prototype. The K2 must be pretty new. There are several lenses for the K2 that aren't available yet. I don't think there is a wide lense out for them yet, so I doubt these are in the Solaris. Maybe PFO is waiting on lenses.

[howie]

I usually just stay quiet and observe but I've been inspired by Chris' earlier posting about all the negative comments on the LED technology (The RC forum has a number of these people) and wanted to speak out. I've been in the hobby since early 80's and stopped in the 90's. Getting back into it now. Doesn't seem like anything has changed much since the 80's. The only difference is that everybody's mother is using MH on even the smallest fish bowls. Hobbyist nowaday are fooling themselves into lovng their MHs, living with the high UV, heating issues, coral bleaching and high electric bills just for fast SPS growth. So to band-aid the problem, people use chillers, driving up their already high electric bills and blowing out hot air into their own living environments, instead of their tanks, so that they can use their air conditioners to solve that issue (more electricity) or they use fans, made for humans, to blow air on every water surface on their tanks. This is truly stupid. Also like Chris had pointed out earlier, all the MH lovers out there have already dropped big money on their MH and see that investment coming to an end. These people will defend it to the death as they do not want their MHs to be obsolete. I remember when there were huge debates over using MH or fluorescents.
Then comes the money argument for the Solaris. Come on guys, if you totaled up all the money you dropped on your reef tanks, it is a drop in a bucket. As everyone wants the best for their tanks, right? People used to think I was crazy when I first purchaed my 1 - 175watt MH, 2 VHO hood in the 80's. Back then it was very expensive.
Like everything else in this world, we need to progress not stay stagnant. LED will definitely get better unlike MH because that technology has been maxed out (STAGNANT). There hasn't been any new innovation in MHs since the early 90's.
As for SPS growth concern, I've seen SPS grow in PC lighting. It just grows slower. Which from my stand point is a good thing. If SPS grows so fast and people are resorting to pruning and swapping them like calurpa (in the 80's) then eventually you will have to just throw your fags in the garbage like calurpa. I remember when everyone wanted calurpa (in the 80's) and gave them to their friends. Eventually everyone had it and nobody wanted it anymore, so they just threw it in the garbage. How many tanks can one person have right?
Finally, I want to express my deepest apologies to anyone I may have offended by my comments as this was not my objective but to make people think. Also I want to Thank everyone for even reading my complaints. I've gained alot of knowledge from everyone here and I really enjoy going through this forum daily.

[chris]

Thanks for the nice comments Howie.
I have been really encouraged by all the reading I have done on Luxeon LEDs. From what I see the technology is definately here now. The new 5 watt K2 produces 140 lumens while the 3 watt Luxeon III LED produces 65 Lumens. The K2 is the same size as the Lux III so it will fit in the same size cluster. I have seen several pics of the two and the K2 is a lot brighter. If the Solaris is putting out more PAR now then I can imagine what it will do with the K2. I doubt it will take LED 5 years to catch MH.

[howie]

I am pretty sure PFO is going to use the 5watt LED on the 400 watt equivalent Solaris, rumored to come out early next year.
I am setting up a tank and I am taking it really slow. I am going to wait for it.
LED is only going to get more powerful and surpass MH.

[chris]

All you need to program the lighting effects and dimming is a DMX led controller. There are a lot of them out there. There is a lot of DMX lighting software out there as well. You can hook the controller to PC via USB or Serial Port and run the software. Most of it is written in VB, C and some Delphi. VB is pretty easy. Some of the DMX controllers are standalone and have memory so you don't have to have a pc connected all the time. Just program it. I'm sure in time Blueline will put out a Solar LED controller like their vho controller. It's pretty exciting!

[dadonoflaw]

i noticed that the fixtures go up to 6' but the next tank i have in the works will be 8' or possibly 10' depending on what i can get. i want to know how do you deal with the coverage issue. do you get a 72 and a 24" and put the two fixtures on the same tank or what? i also after seeing my electric bill and using pfo's energy consumption calculator decided to get them on my new tank as well as my 125 i recently set up. i know it gets hot in my tank and that is another concern before i even got lights my tank temps got up to 87degrees F so i had to get a chiller before i got the lights (good to live in the south and yet not) kinda wish i lived in boston but back to the point i am interested in anything that saves money and heat to the tank. finally i prefer the 10k look i dont like alot of blue. i have 10k bulbs now so i was wondering if the 13k pfo fixtures can look as white as 10k's when dialed down?

[dadonoflaw]

also i noticed that i lose alot of water to evaporation that i didnt lose when i was running only pc's. has anyone noticed a drop in eaporation levels since installing the new lights?

[Amphibious]

dadonoflaw,

I haven't heard any plans of PFO's to bring out longer fixtures. Your option would be to use 2 x 4' for an 8' tank or 2 x 5' for the 10' tank.

Here's the latest on my energy savings. The Nov energy bill, the first full month using Solaris, was $86 less than the Sept's bill. Oct's bill, a partial month on Solaris, was $67 less.

Multiply $86 times 12 gets you $1032 savings a year. Besides waisting energy, yearly bulb replacement on my former MH ran $180. In three years my Solaris will save me $3096 in energy plus $540 in bulb savings for a grand total of $3636. The unit more than pays for itself in three years. I know this is a simplistic formula but it's the best figure I can give based on the units have only been on the market two months.

As a MH owner, I felt like the energy company had a siphon stuck in my wallet. No more!!! I'm very happy with the Solaris unit and thankful to Pat and PFO for doing the research, design and marketing them.

Then dealing with the heat issue, my chiller has actually cycled off! Now that the weather is a little cooler here in FL, it hasn't run for days. This will lower the energy bill further. The temp in the tank has been staying right at 76 degrees.

This plays into the evaporation equation, too. Less heat to deal with, less evaporation to make up for.

I'm not sure how to address the color temp you are asking about. I'm a bit color blind and adjust the color to suit my eyes. Not sure what your preference would look like to me. The reason for the 13K is this, if you have a 20K unit and program it down to 13K you will lose PAR. The 13K model will give you more PAR than the 20K unit at 13K. So if you prefer the 10K look you might want to get the 13K unit and adjust it to suit your eyes.

The high cost of these units concerns many reefers. However, there are less costly sources. If anyone is interested in saving $$ on these units, PM me, I'll direct you to the best price on the net.

Hope this cleared up some of your questions.

[howie]

dadonoflaw, I emailed Pat about the color of the 20K and if making it whiter will reduce the intensity of the 20K unit. His response was yes. He also said that is the reason why they made the 13K version for people who prefer the whiter light.

[dadonoflaw]

thanx guys i appreciate the swift reply. i was goin to wait and just put these on the new tank but i have to get one for both just based on the savings. now you have money to get a cbb that is net caught and go out to dinner and not breakfast as a treat for looking to the lighting future. an aside one electric company called bge just raised their prices 72% from the previous year so enjoy those savings cause i know i will

[Amphibious]

I'm really impressed at the growth of the corals under the LED fixture.

The coral below I've been reporting most often because it's growth is most noticable. It's an SPS known as ORA Tri Color (Acropora valida). The picture, in a post above, was taken 10/23 the picture below taken today, 11/27.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/ORA%20TriColor-11-26-06-2.jpg

To me, this is nothing short of amazing. Below are two pictures of another SPS coral, the Limited Edition Bali Tri Color from Steve Tyree. The identification is unknown but, possibly Acropora nana. The first pic taken 11/7.....

http://www.theculturedreef.com/BaliTri-color-11-7-06-1.jpg

The pic below taken today, 11/27.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/BaliTri-color-11-27-06-1.jpg


This coral is beginning to take off and is showing some great colors.

Dick

[Reefbaby]

more pictures more pictures....we want more pictures!!! :D What are the two corals behind the coral on the last picture?

you get really great polyp extension Dick. Any tips?

[Amphibious]

Christi,

The corals behind the Bali Tri Color are Limited Edition corals from Steve Tyree. As you know, many corals given the same genus and species name can look entirely different, especially color wise. The one on the right is an Acropora millipora and dubbed Aquarium City Red by Steve. He acquired the coral from that store and it was a red variety he'd never seen before. Here's a better pic of it taken on Nov 9th.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/Acropora-millipora-AqCityRed-11-9-06-1.jpg

It's quite a striking coral. When purchasing rare or LE frags from coral farmers you'll often get the feeling your being short changed. I've bought from several different farmers and what you get is not representative of the mother colony they show on their web site. You get the same coral but in it's fragged size, looks nothing like original. Here's what I mean.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/Acropora-millipora-AqCityRed-8-18-06-1.jpg

This is the above coral a couple of weeks after I received it. I was so disappointed it took me weeks to get a photo of it. I kept waiting for it to color up. Well, it finally is looking like the mother colony. This is pretty standard for farmed LE and rare coral frags in my experience.

I'll search for original and up-to-date pics of the other one in that pic above.

[Reefbaby]

Great shots Dick!! I love your coral varieties! :D

[Braves11]

My Dad is an architect and goes on and on about how expensive LEDs are. On Fayetville St. Raleigh hired a world famous architect to give an idea there. He came up with a huge net of LEDs that go across the street. It will be programmed to flash different words. My Dad says that it is the most wasteful thing in the world. The net alone will cost Raleigh millions. They may be cheaper over a few years, but how much will it cost you to replace the bulbs?

[CarmieJo]

I think these are good questions Ward and I don't know the answer to them. Obviously Dick is seeing great savings in his power bill and that certainly adds up. I only have PC lights and I just spent $60 on new bulbs. I think that the Solaris is warrantied for 5 years so that is $600 in replacement PC bulbs while the Solaris would still be under warranty.

Between bulbs and electricity would you break even over 5 years? Maybe. But in the end for many people the reason to buy or not buy LED lights will be the growth of your corals and the way your tank looks not cost savings.

[Amphibious]

Carmie,

Go back one page (8) and read my post on energy savings. My 72" will pay for itself in less than 3 years.

[Braves11]

So we read, but still how often do you have to replace the bulbs. I've read they are very expensive, and with the unit you have you definitely have to replace a huge amount of them. Isn't it something like every ten years?

[Amphibious]

Braves11,

I'm going to answer your questions in the present tense and the future tense because things change over time.

Present: In my 72" Solaris fixture there are 30 rows of 5, 3 watt LEDs, in banks of 25 for a total of 150 LEDs. The fixture carries a 2 year warranty so, I shouldn't have to worry too much for two years. If individual LEDs burn out, only the row of 5 affected have to be replaced. I don't know the cost of replacement rows of LEDs. Right now, I don't care of the cost. It isn't a concern of mine. The LED bulbs have a potential life of 50,000 hours. Burning them 10 hours a day, 365 days = 3650 hours a year divided into 50,000 = 13.7 years. Using that as a best case scenario, lets figure the savings over that time in energy and bulb replacement for MHs. My MH fixture used 3 bulbs at a replacement cost average of $60 each.

My energy savings (ES) the first full month of LED use was $86. MH bulb replacement (BR) is recommended every 9-10 months. Let's give it 12 months to keep it simple.

Original cost of the 72" Solaris LED Illumination System, $2,972 plus shipping of $105 = $3,077

$86 ES x 12 mths = $1032/yr x 13.7 yrs = $14,138 in ES.
$60 BR x 3 = $180/yr x 13 yrs = $2,340 in bulb savings.
Total savings over the expected life of the LED fixture = $16,478 in savings.

I think you can afford to replace a few bulbs or the whole fixture.

Future: As with any new technology the initial cost is high. But, as we've seen with computers, HDTV, Digital cameras, cell phones and all electronics, the cost plummets as time passes and technology evolves. I believe the LED technology is in it's infancy and will change considerably over time. As demand increases, competition will drive the price down. So, I see the cost of replacement going down in the future, making the LED cost savings even greater.

Should I have waited 13 years to get my LED fixture? Well, if I did I'd be out a small fortune, wouldn't I. Besides, my Solaris will pay for itself in less than three years.

What will MHs do for you? Cost you money in energy, bulb replacement, over heat your system, over heat your house, force you to buy a chiller further driving up your energy bill. Let's face it, MHs will go the way of the dial telephone in just a few years. Dial telephones, you remember them don't you? We'll be talking that way about MH soon.

[Amphibious]

Forgot one thing. Taking the cost of the original unit off the savings.

$16,478 - 3,077 = $13,401 in net savings.

Not bad.

[Olsen]

okay, thanks for postings.

I have a question. The LED's can be used for about 50.000 hours = 10-15 years. But how many years of garantee can we get when we buy a Solaris LED System? - also 10 years or what? There is no idea in buying a product if it does not work after a few years.

[Reefbaby]

Welcome to TR Olsen! Good to see some more Europeans!!! :D

[Amphibious]

okay, thanks for postings.

I have a question. The LED's can be used for about 50.000 hours = 10-15 years. But how many years of garantee can we get when we buy a Solaris LED System? - also 10 years or what? There is no idea in buying a product if it does not work after a few years.The Solaris units have a two year guarantee. It would be unreasonable to expect anything longer, in my humble opinion. I don't think you can assume it will breakdown in a few years either. The electronics inside the fixture are low voltage and should last beyond the bulbs.

[Reefbaby]

Amp - maybe you've already answered this somewhere and I'm just not remembering, but how many watts are each LED lamp? What's the total energy expenditure of the entire unit? I realize it must be considerably less than the MH - hence the energy savings, but I was wondering what the individual watts were?

[Amphibious]

In the 250 watt version the LEDs are 3 watt. The 400 watt version coming out sometime in '07 are 4.25 watt. Each bank of lights has 25 LEDs and each fixture has one bank per foot. My 72" has 150 LEDs.

[NVMark]

Hi Everyone,

I saw on the Luxeon site that Chris posted that the K2 LEDs had a 100,000 hour life and operated at 70% of their lumens after 50,000 hours (11.5 years @ 12 hours). What I did not see is the effect on color temp after hours of use. After all, traditional bulbs PC & MH will last for a really long time, but they are useless for reef keeping after less then a year. Can we expect that these LEDs will loose there color characteristics in less then the stated time?

Not trying to be negative – I have to admit these look really attractive and I just dump $1K on a Coral Life 2 X 250 HQI & 2 X 96w PC fixture. I have always been concerned about the power consumption of the lighting on our tanks from an environment point of view – are we killing what we love by keeping these corals in our tanks?

As far as warrantees and such, keep in mind there is more to these fixtures then the LEDs – Fans, Controllers (might be more likely to fail then the LEDs), etc. The 2 year warrantee might be more concerned with these parts to the light.

Amphibious – Have you seen any critters that did not take will to the LEDs?

Thanks,

Mark

[Amphibious]

http://www.theculturedreef.com/welcome.gif to Talking Reef Community, NVMark.

This is a great group of reefers, Mark, glad you are joining us.

I haven't noticed any negative results. I'm quite pleased with the overall results I'm getting. I've never been a fan of the super bright high powered MHs that some people are using. I think much of it is over kill, unnecessary and makes the energy companies richer.

Dick

[NVMark]

Thanks Amphibious! Yeah, Rob has done a great thing here. Like it already.

Keep me/us posted. I might have to put the killer Coralife light system on eBay. I have to say I like it alot, but I do not think I am going to like the power bills. From what I have seen of the LED solutions you are showing I would be able to achive my goals with that at much less long term cost.

Thanks,
Mark

[Amphibious]

Thanks Amphibious! Yeah, Rob has done a great thing here. Like it already.

Keep me/us posted. I might have to put the killer Coralife light system on eBay. I have to say I like it alot, but I do not think I am going to like the power bills. From what I have seen of the LED solutions you are showing I would be able to achive my goals with that at much less long term cost.

Thanks,
Mark I know what you mean Mark. I have my 72" Aquactinic to sell, too. I get my second month's energy bill sometime today. Looking forward to see what it is. I'll report here when I get it.

If you decide to get a Solaris in the future, PM me, I'll direct you to the most cost effective site for purchasing a unit. ;)

[NVMark]

Thanks again Amphibious. I have a 145 g Half Circle tank - which is about a 2.5 foot radius 180 deg circle. I am giving some thought to using three short 14" or 24" LED lights that radiate out from the center. I think this would give me better coverage then my 48” Coralife fixture that hangs off the edges a bit. Better/more light and at a power saving. Let me get through the holidays and I might be PMing you. I have looked at your web site and I would be pleased with the assitance once I make the leap.

Mark

[Amphibious]

Thanks Mark. Be happy to help you get into Solaris.

I just received my 2nd full month electric bill from FPL. It's down an additional $36. That's a whopping $122 from it's peak!!!Wow, I am excited and so is my wife. In the interest of being fair and balanced, some of this savings has to be attributed to cooler weather for sure. However, If I were still burning my MHs, they would still be heating the room to the point of my having to run the room AC and my chiller. Incredible!

Thank you Pat and PFO for this innovative advancement in lighting technology. What a Christmas gift!

I am excited!

Dick

[Amphibious]

Anyone interested in a 48" 250 watt 20K Solaris light should log on RC and PM jnb. He is selling the light for a very reasonable price.

This is not through me nor do I take any responsibility for the transaction. Nick and I have e-mailed back and forth but that's all I know.

This light will not be for sale long. If you want it do it now!!!

PM - jnb - on RC for all further details.

Dick

[triggerdiver]

Hey guys and gals! Sorry for the absence, I've had a lot going on since I've last posted. Anyway, hope yall have had a great holiday! My wife and I found out we are expecting twins!!!! So I've been busy working and working and working! But, I just wanted to report on my Solaris situation. As some may know, I had a 13K
72" Solaris system that I loved! But like Dick had when he first got his light fixture, some lights weren't working. I've talked to Pat at PFO about three times now to get the matter resolved, and Pat is the MOST PATIENT and MOST KIND person I've met! We've talked back and forth about my problem and it's ending up getting fixed much better than I expected. I went ahead and sent him my 13K Solaris back and in return, I'm getting a 20K version (which is what I truly wanted in the first place, but I did an impulse buy on the 13K since 20K's were sold out EVERYWHERE!) The 13K is awesome, don't get me wrong, it's just that I do like more blue in my tank and the 13K looked great, but not as much blue. So Pat did something VERY generous and is a very intelligent, kind, patient human being! Glad you're enjoying your Solaris, Dick! I too have had a huge drop in our electric bill. I love these lights! So, just wanted to drop in and say hi and give an update!

-Jeff

[Amphibious]

Triggerdiver, WOW, you have been working and playing, too. Twin frags that's great news. Congratulations!!!

I'll say Pat is the most patient and kind person I've met, too. He has been simply great with all the QC issues he's had to deal with. You've got to remember he went from a prototype to a production model built in China and shipped to the US and then UPS'd to customers. Lots of jiggling around in all that shipping. He's taken care of all issues personally.

He just made two posts on RC that rather than linking us to, I'm going to takr the liberty of cutting and pasting them here in another post. This will help explain what he's up against and what lies ahead for the Solaris. I'm excited.

Dick

[Amphibious]

I'm making this post quoting Pat Ormiston owner of PFO, to update everyone on TR about the Solaris LED light fixtures and the questions you might have.


PFO Solaris Status Update
I have updated the website on dimensions. Be aware that only the new units are 1.5" shorter than the nominal length. When ordering make sure that you specify that they need to be the shorter versions. We have both 48" units and 46.5" units.

Note that the 24" version is still 24". The 14" is still 14". All the others have been shortened by 1.5".


There are a couple of questions I always get which I would like to address.

1. The temperature on the LCD display shows what the current temperature in the fixture is. The temperature should be between 70 degrees and 110 degrees. If the temperature goes above 110 degrees, something is wrong, so please call us. The unit will automatically shut off if the temperature approaches 130 degrees.

2. The human eye does not see the blue light emitted from the fixture very well. That is why the fixture often appears dimmer than some metal halide or fluorescent fixtures. You need to get a PAR meter to compare the light output of the Solaris to other fixtures. The human eye does a very poor job at this comparison. Be aware of this because we have a number of customers call up and comment on coral bleaching. The corals are seeing the light but the human eye is not. When applying the fixture dim the light some initially as you would if you are installing a new metal halide fixture on a tank that is not use to the high light output.

3. There has been a lot of discussion about energy consumption on this thread lately. My response to it is that all the discussion is probably correct. When comparing the Solaris to other fixtures they all use a fixed amount of energy. I.e. a 250W MH fixture will use roughly 250W of power for the lamp and 45W for the ballast. Sanjays web site will give the specific draw of each ballast and lamp combination. The Solaris will use about 85W/foot. If the LED's are dimmed than the Solaris will us less energy. This rough number includes the power supply, fans, and LED's. From those numbers you can calculate the fixture energy savings. Now there is the variable energy savings which will be different for every user. These variable energy savings will be for running chillers or fans to cool the water, air conditioning to remove excess heat from the room, power to run water heaters, and the list will go on. Since every application is slightly different due to the location and room set up the energy savings will be different for every application.

4. Quality Control- It is getting a lot better. We are not at 100% yet but we are getting a lot closer. In late December we shipped out a bunch of new fixtures. So far I have only had 3 or 4 customers who have called with problems from this shipment. I will continue to improve the quality control because I hate having problems with fixtures as much or more than the customers who have received fixtures with issues. Our current quality control problems on fixtures are running around 2-8%. In August it was around 40-60%.

5. Availability- We currently have 4' units in stock. All others are sold out. There are a couple of resellers who have units in stock. We are expecting a new load in late January. Starting in late January we should have the majority of the availability issues resolved.

6. New LED fixtures. I am working on developing a higher light output unit and a LED fixture that is much cheaper to compete with the fluorescent fixtures. I have stopped giving out dates on these new fixtures. Everything about developing these fixtures takes 2-4 times longer than I think it should. All I can say it that hopefully by the Summer I will have both of these fixtures available.

7. International Orders.- Currently we are looking for a good way to distribute to Europe. All the units are rated for 120V or 230V. Our current method of selling to Europe has been to ship via UPS. The shipping charge is high. If you are interested in ordering please contact PFO or any of our resellers. We can then get a shipping quote to your specific address.

Again, I do not plan to respond to any direct questions on this newsgroup. I believe it is for the hobbyist and not for the manufacturer.

If you have any direct questions please do not hesitate to email me at sales@pfolighting.com (sales@pfolighting.com) or call 800-577-9690.

Thank you for your support.

Patrick Ormiston
PFO Lighting Inc.

Pat has taken care of every issue that my customers raised about QC, at his cost. Which is only right but, I wanted it stated in writing here on TR.

Dick

[Amphibious]

Again, from Pat Ormiston of PFO.


to expand on the Quality Control Problems.

In a majority of the shipments, the rattling of UPS freight caused a large percentage of the problems we saw. We also had a huge learning curve from going from a prototype model to a production model.

In the last shipment, we modified a way a resistor was mounted on one of the circuit boards. This modification caused 2 of the 3 problems that we saw on our last shipments. It has already been fixed to eliminate this problem in the future.

On the shipment that we expect to see in late January we have already designed a system to have a 100% test of each fixture before we ship them out of our warehouse. We have continued to improve our packaging to make it through the UPS freight system. We are expecting to see less than 1% defective rates on units moving forward.

As for the high defective units that has happened. The majority were simple fixes that the customer was able to perform over the phone in a matter of minutes. I believe that all issues with all the fixtures have been fixed or are in the process of being fixed.
Now you know as much as I know. However, if you have further questions, you can call PFO using the number above or call my toll free number 888 745-0449 or e-mail me.

Dick

[Rob]

thanks for the update Amph.

[iglowce]

thanx for updates mister

[triggerdiver]

I got my 20k Solaris yesterday and love it! This was a very fast delivery, PFO really has great technology and GREAT customer service. I wasn't expecting the lights back for another week or so, but I did get them and I really do love it! Now, I just have to complete my mixed reef tank with more, well, corals. The 20k really brings out the beautiful colors of my green star polyps, mushrooms and frogspawn! I really want to put in a SPS or two now, seeing how Amp is having great growth with his. Just wanted to let yall know I finally got the Solaris in!

[mikellini]

Amp- I noticed in an earlier post that you said this:

The Solaris units have a two year guarantee. It would be unreasonable to expect anything longer, in my humble opinion. I don't think you can assume it will breakdown in a few years either. The electronics inside the fixture are low voltage and should last beyond the bulbs.

Typically, a guarantee is made to benefit the supplier, not the consumer. A guarantee is necessary as a selling point, but to minimize cost, the supplier tailors it to his or her product's estimated reliability. This is usually measured so that the supplier only has to replace or repair between 0 and 5% of products. So, the supplier estimates that at a maximum, only 5% of the products will last less than 2 years. With a little more info, you can extrapolate the average estimated reliability using probability and statistics math. But, assuming normal distribution, and that 5% of the units will actually last until within 2 years of the maximum lifespan, you can ballpark that around half of the lights will need to either be repaired or replaced within 7 years.

Just a ballpark, I'd be curious to know exactly what the average estimated reliability is. And either way, it looks better and saves some money. Plus, the cost of replacement is sure to go down.

[Amphibious]

Hey Mike,

I have a different take on guarantees. I believe it protects the consumer for the length of the term against design and manufacturing snafus and limits the manufacturer's liability the length of the term against user abuse.

No one knows the average reliability. The Solaris has only been out four months. there were some QC issues that plagued the early units and PFO's owner handled them personally. No issues are outstanding as far as I know. I talk to Pat at least once a week and my Rep, Carla, nearly every working day. The QC has improved remarkably and issues are down to less than 5% I believe.

They are a great unit. I love mine.

[mikellini]

No argument here! I want one ASAP, and I'm agonizing over saving for it... I think that they are definitely the next big thing. And being the next big thing, the technology is bound to get better, and it is likely that these first few units will be viewed as inferior when the next round of LED technology comes out. It's hard to judge when the right time to make that investment is, but the one thing that really makes your mind up in this case is the immediate potential for savings...

And I agree that those are the reasons companies have guarantees, that is a great definition. I only mentioned that guarantees must be calculated to save money at the same time, and that is (usually) how it's done. I'm not saying that these units will crap out as soon as their warrantee expires; I'm just saying that they also aren't likely to last until the maximum lifespan either. You can approximate 7 years, and figure that 90% of the units will crap out within +- 5 years of then, with the majority being close to 7 years.

[JeffDubya]

It's gorgeous... I need to win the lottery...

[strangelove]

Hello everyone,

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread since it was the deciding factor in why I got the PFO Solaris. The price was the biggest issue, but for the past several months I've been given some hand me downs from people who have dismantled their aquariums. So by saving money on my tank set up, I was abble to afford a nice lighting set up. To me the Solaris offers everthing and more in what your looking for in a lighting system. Since I have turned the Solaris on my tank has taken on a whole new character. Took a while for my eyes and brain to adjust to the LED light output compared to a compact florescent light output. By far the LED simulates real world light better, like the light you see in the Ocean when scuba diving or snorkeling. Being able to vary the light to simulate the Sun's cycle and Moon cycle is to me worth it. The cloud effect is cool too and you can see how anemones react to the changing light conditions. Also the abscence of heat soak to the aquarium is a plus. Power savings is interesting, but I'm not expecting my electric bill to be rock bottom next month either. I really like the fact that I won't have to worry about bulb changes, due to color shift for at least 6 years. So far I am very happy with the Solaris light.

I've gone from a 12 gallon Nano Reef to a 46 gallon Bow Front. I had a 36"Coral Life dual compact florescents that were not putting out enough light so I lost a stony coral during the move. So finding the right light was the most important thing to set up during the transition from a smaller to larger tank. It is assuring to know that many of you with Solaris lights have had great growth in your SPS corals. With the Solaris I'm confident that I'll have success with some Acropora and Plate corals. My tank has been up for 4 months now and is maturing nicely, Coraline is growing nicely and now I can't wait to get started with more SPS corals.
:up:

[Reefbaby]

First of all, welcome to TR Strangelove! That's great that this thread and site helped you to move towards what sounds like a great improvement on your system. Dick's done a great job on keeping us posted on the changes in his tank and corals since switching over to the Solaris system.
Hope to see pictures of your tank soon in the member journals soon! :D

[Amphibious]

strangelove, welcome to TR. Your Solaris should serve you and your corals well.

Christi, so good to hear from you. Thank you for the kind words. I've been largely absent from TR the last month. Lots of things going on in life right now. I've been in the background of TR much of the time and posted when time permitted. How are things?

[strangelove]

Thanks for the welcome, this site seems like a great place. Amp, do you have any suggestions on how to set the Auto Mode for the Solaris. So far I have been using the Timer Mode at 12 hours white and blue day lights 50% and 12 hours white lunar lights 0%, blue lunar lights 5%. I'm planning on increasing the day light levels 10% a week until the corals are adjusted to 100% light output.

The other day I ran the Solaris in Auto Mode with the same light output percenteges. The Cloud effect is really neat and the gradual light changes for the sunrise and sunset seems to help the anemones wake up.

The thing I noticed is that the Lunar lights don't turn on consistently when in Auto Mode. According to the PFO forum they explain that the lunar lights are supposed to stay on all night until the day lights turn on. With the minimal instructions that came with the solaris I'm wondering if I'm missing a function. How have you set up your Solaris?

[Amphibious]

I just set the Auto Mode "ON" and let it go. It runs with the sun-up and sun-down timing and lunar timing automatically. After a few days I adjusted the day-blues down to 80% and that's where I left it. I took out all the cloud cover periods because I didn't feel it enhanced coral growth. It's cool to see them dim during the day but unnecessary in my opinion.

The lunar lights, in my experience, have followed the lunar schedule. There are time when the moon is not above the horizon at sunset. Also the lunar lights are not always the same intensity because a half or quarter moon produces less light than a full moon. So they are going to vary from week to week. I thought the moon lights were too bright at 100% so I turned mine way down to 20%. I like my tank dimmer at night than the original setting.

These are truly cool lights.

[strangelove]

I've had my Solaris up for a week now and I've noticed something interesting. For starters my calupra is going absolutely bananas, it's growing like a weed, even some clippings that fell to the bottom of the tank are now starting to sprout. But whats really interesting is that algae growth on the tank glass, on the rocks, and a few patches of cyano are now gone. I haven't done a water change, refugium and filter is still the same, only difference is the Solaris. With my old CF lights where the light was more diffused, I had to use a magnet cleaner every 3 days or so to clean the glass, and once a week I would use a power head to stir up the sand and blast off some algae from the rocks. Also I've noticed that a few patches of hair algae is starting to disappear. At first I thought it might be a snail or hermit crab finally doing their jobs and getting to it, but I've noticed a drop in hair algae throughout the tank. Now I can see the Coraline much better.

I think since the LED light has a limited light spread that it doesn't reach the glass and a majority of the light is directed to where you want it, centered in the middle. Another factor might be because I have a Bow Front tank and light doesn't reach the glass as much. There is a little algae on the left and right sides of the tank glass, mostly on the bottom and fades as you go half way up the tank glass, and it looks like most of the snails are getting to that, before it becomes a problem.

Has anyone else noticed a decrease in nuisance algae?

[CarmieJo]

Hi Strangelove and :welcome: to TR.

[strangelove]

Hey there CarmieJoe,

Well I've had my Solaris at 100% white and blue lights for two weeks now and everything seems to be growing, good and bad. I had to remove the calupra from my main tank because it was growing too quickly, it's now in my refugium. Hair algae is growing faster as well. I added an aqua sock to my refugium to increase filtration. I think I was overfeeding the tank too. Since I've gotten a Montipora Digitata and Capricornis, I've been feeding more phytoplankton. I'm also going to add a few more cleaner critters too.

The good is that the Digi and the Capricornis are both growing well too. I also added a Turban and Zenia coral, both doing good too. So I think I've got the light thing right, now I just need to get water quality under control.

[Reefbaby]

Congrats strangelove! Share some pics of your corals when you get a chance!

your hair algae issue is most likely due to excess nutrients, so just try to find the source of that problem and you're set to go! :D

[Amphibious]

I've started a new thread on the long awaited 400W Solaris by PFO.

Also, they have a limited number of refurbished 250W at a deep discount.
That's covered on the new thread too.

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/lighting/4129-solaris-400w-20k-coming-very-soon.html#post50402

Please keep posting your thoughts and results on the 250W version in this thread, thanks.

Dick

[strangelove]

Thought I would update this thread with some pictures of my 46g tank with the 36" Solaris. I've also added a mangrove population to my refugium and attached some to my overflow box. My goal now is getting phosphates to 0ppm.

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/TANK.jpg

[strangelove]

Here are some closeups too.

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/FROGSPAWN.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/BRAINSPONGEGALEXEA.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/CLAM.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/POCILLIPORA.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/TOADSTOOL.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/paperplanes/.Pictures/AQUARIUM2/MANGROVES.jpg

[Amphibious]

Many of you are holding off buying a Solaris LED light waiting for the price to drop. Wait no longer! PFO is running a sale until July 31, while supplies last. Quantities and sizes are limited. Here are the sizes available...

24"
36"
48"
72"

Those of you that are interested or curious, here's the link...

PFO Solaris 250W LED sale (http://www.theculturedreef.com/solarissale.htm) - Includes free shipping!

The 250W Solaris is good for tanks down to 24" deep. You've read the favorable reports right here on TR. Now's the chance to get a new discounted Solaris.

If you have questions PM, e-mail or call me toll free 888 745-0449.

Dick

[bklynreefdude]

Hi Guys:

Another convert over from RC, got tired of all the flaming (this is supposed to be fun, right?). This looks like the best thread on Solaris so here I am. I've got my 48" I4 on order and can't wait. I've been limping along on 4 96w PCs for years and here's a pic of my tank as of yesterday. The bulbs are about 13months old and are much brighter (I tried to stop down for better detail) and the almost $200 replacement cost every year was on of the deciding factors on trying the Solaris fixture. Thanks for all your cool posts, hope to update as soon as I can.

[Amphibious]

bklynreefdude,

OK, that would translate to Brooklyn Reef Dude.

Welcome to TR.

We're glad you found the non-threatening forum of reefing. Ask all the "dumb" questions you have. We won't flame you, we'll answer your questions. I know personally about RC and flaming. If you can't ask questions about things you are not aware of how can you lean??? Ask away. We'll answer.

Dick

[bklynreefdude]

Hi Dick:

Thanks, and I actually spoke to you on the phone a few months back before the I series was released. Finding you here on this site/forum sealed the deal, you've got a great website and a great attitude and this forum seems fun.

[Reefbaby]

Welcome bklynreefdude!

Glad to see you here! We're always happy to welcome new family members.

Be sure to update us with some pics when you get your new solaris! :D

[bklynreefdude]

Hi Reefbaby:


Thanks! Nice to be here, will do on the pics. Carla at PFO is hoping for sipment the end of this month.

[wu398]

Dick,
wanted to chim in here if i may. I am back and forth with Solaris and AI's unit. have 80 in tank. 60-72 in will be my choice. Now to my question : The more I research the more confused i get on which product. the cooling set up on AI's unit better fits my canopy plans. Is there a difference in the two designs? what made up your mind on solaris? Im on the fence right now. plus this tech is so new and fast changing, to spend 4000.00 and tommorrow something more avanced presents itself in LED tech, will make me bit unhappy. your input greatly appreciated.

Bill

[Amphibious]

Hey wu398, welcome to TR.

The reason I went with the PFO Solaris over the AI unit is simple. Solaris came out about a year before the AI light. I met Pat the owner of PFO at a trade show in Chicago, April '06. He was introducing the LED technology and I immediately saw the benefits, 40% less energy used than equivalent MHs, no heat transfer to the tank, long bulb life, etc. The original G series had problems, low light output and plagued with mechanical failures. It turned out most of the problems were because of language interpretation between our English and the Chinese who were assembling the Solaris. These differences were worked out, the Solaris has gone through two upgrades from the G to the H4 and now the I4. As a dealer I felt I had to try each version as they were introduced. I'm now working with the 72" I4 series and I'm very pleased with results. Will there be another upgrade? Probably, because LED lighting is in it's infancy. There will be new more powerful LEDs brought out by the manufacturers and I'm sure Pat is not resting on his I4 series. Have I heard anything about a new series? No. If there is one on the drawing board, I'm not aware of it. I do talk to Pat often and he hasn't indicated anything to me. Of course, he doesn't have to either.

I can't address the AI unit. I've asked to be a dealer and they responded not at this time. There is only one retail outlet handling sales that I know of. If you go tho their site, that's where they direct you to go. I have heard nothing bad about them. In fact there is very little being said about them.

At this point, for my money, I'm very happy going with a long established company with a customer service track record second to none.

I hope this helped, Bill. My Solaris web page is - Solaris LED Lights (http://www.theculturedreef.com/solaris400.htm)

I know of a 72" Solaris H4 unit refurbished and in like new condition for sale for $2,999 if any one is interested. The MSRP was $4,012.

If you have other questions I can be reached by toll free number 888 745-0449.

Dick

[wu398]

Dick,
Appreciate your time. The web site you linked me to is yours? i see your in ft pierce, Im in west palm. do distributr from your home or have a store? If possible could I swing up your way and pick your brain

Thanks
Bill

[Amphibious]

Yes, Bill, the link takes you to my site. I sell on the web and I'm setting up a coral fragging/grow out facility here at my home. You absolutely can come pick my brain. I'm not sure you'll find much though. :rotfl:

I have a thread on the aquaculture building here - Our Building Project (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/general-marine-discussions/5508-our-aquaculture-building-finally-arrived-3.html) I see I need an update. I'll post new pictures tomorrow.

Dick

[wu398]

Dick,
whats the best way to reach you for directions and your availability?

Bill

[Amphibious]

Good Morning Bill,

Probably my cell phone - 772 979-0786 or e-mail - dick@theculturedreef.com

It's very easy to find our place from WP, North on 95 to exit 138 (Indrio Rd.), 1 mile east to Johnston Rd. left, one mile North and your here, on the left. We're in the country. Only two houses to chose from, one, where you turn in is not us, turn left and go South on dirt right-of-way about 400' to our driveway. You'll see the steel building we're putting up and the house behind. Just give me a call first to be sure I'm around. I've been known to go out fishing or to get sea water at the spur of the moment.

Dick

[wu398]

Appreciated it, most likly will be on weekend sometime. I'll be in touch

Bill

[bluereefccat]

I am curious as to whether or not one would need the I series for a 24" deep tank? I have read the threads but cannot find the answer anecdotally(?) from a user and not the supplier. Also what are the real $ amts. in energy saving that users are experiencing? Thanks for any reply

[Amphibious]

bluereefccat, welcome to TR.

The answer depends on what you want to keep/grow and if the H series is sufficient, can you find one. They are no longer available new. You may find one on the secondary market, used or refurbished. The I4 series is the only one in production because it is the upgrade from the H4 series, is brighter and like the G and H Series, is totally adjustable from 100% output down to what you want/need.

Right now I'm only aware of one 72" H4 available, if it hasn't been sold. It was my original H4 and the person who bought it is looking to sell it. I guess because of financial reasons. I have her information, if you are interested.

[bluereefccat]

Thanks for the quick reply and the welcome. That answers the depth ?. That being said I run 3 175's and 4 72" vho would the energy usage be around the same? I know that the I series is compared to a 400w mh.

[Amphibious]

I'm sorry, Yes a depth of 24" would be well covered by the H and better by the I series. The energy usage would be less with the Solaris. How much is being debated somewhere at this very moment. :up: There are those skeptics that say it's impossible and then there's those that have experienced the energy bill drop. I'm in the latter group. The comparison to 400W is not in brightness but in PAR. These lights have great PAR values and that's what grows corals.

I must warn you, the first time I plugged in my G series Solaris I was replacing a MH much like you describe. I was disappointed in the "look" of the LEDs compared to the MHs combo. It took a couple of days and conversations with Pat the owner of PFO to accept the difference. The difference is a completely different light spread. MHs scatter light in all directions. That's why you need a reflector to direct it downward. LED lights direct the light downward and don't have a reflector. I don't want to scare you but want you to be aware of the difference ahead of time.

I love the LED lights!!! I had the G, then the H4 and now the I4 series.

Let me know if I can be of any help. Oh, one other thing. The Solaris sells out every time PFO gets them in. The next shipment is due in around the first week in March. Already, as of last Friday the 36", 48" and the 60" are sold out. Everyone wanting one must pre-order or wait for the next shipment and then must pre-order for that, too.

I have sold 7 or 8 of this shipment and most customers ordered in January.

Just a heads up.

Dick

[CarmieJo]

I have an original 24" G series on my 22.5" tall corner tank. I run a DSB of 4-5". My BTA, Euphillia, fungia, Montiporas, Pocilloporas, Caulastera, photosynthetic purple gorgonian (Muriceopsis flavida?) and softies are all doing great. I don't have any acros so can't comment about them. I replaced a PC light fixture so I don't have any real savings on energy between the 2 fixtures. If I had upgraded to MH, I would have gone with a 250 fixture so am saving 100 watts or so there. My big savings comes in the fact that my chiller has never came on since I got my Solaris. Before it was running regularly to keep my tank below 83 in the summer with the AC set at 76.

[bluereefccat]

Thanks for all your help. I will be buying one asap but am not ready to jump just this minute. I am a person that likes to see what I am going to be using for the next 8 yrs or so. Does anyone know of someone in the Louisville/northern KY area that has these lights either retailer or private. Everyones pics look great but I just need to see it in action. Since this shipment is almost sold out when is the next shipment (rough estimate)?

[Amphibious]

bluereefccat,

Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner. My customers span across the US but, I don't have anyone in your area. Wish I could help you there. PFO is getting new shipments about every month. You are correct the last one was sold out, again. The next shipment, due any day, is nearly sold out. Sizes that are gone are; 3' and 4'. There were only 3 - 6'ers left a few days ago. A few 2' and 5'ers remain available.

Like everything electronic, the LED technology is rapidly changing. PFO's Solaris lighting is on it's 3rd version in just 1 1/2 years. When is the next revision coming??? I don't know, wish I could tell you. Few people are waiting for it though, as sales continue to out strip availability. I think the reason for that is, used Solaris continue to sell, too. I'm on my third version, the I4 series, and had no trouble selling the first two, the G and H4 series. If you have any other questions you can post here, PM me or call my toll free number - 888 745-0449.

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Dick

[Reefbaby]

just out of curiosity Dick - what's changed between the versions?

[Amphibious]

Hi Christi,

From the G to the H4 series the LEDs went from 3 watt to 4.25 watt (I think) after that Pat has been a bit tight lipped about changes. The I4 series is a good 30% brighter. The computer control has been tweeked, too. Other than that, can't say much more. I do like them though.

Dick

[bklynreefdude]

My I4 arrived at work yesterday and it was a beast to get home. I recommend home delivery to anyone if they have the choice. I have a few comments so far. Two of the LEDS are out. There is a scratch on the top about 1 inch long. One of the fans is whining on Auto. It seems to go away on 100% but is louder in "white" noise The feet should be metal, the plastic is cheap and kind of wobbly. Overall I think I will be happy with the light but I was expecting perfection out of the box with something that cost this much. I've got a call into Carla to see what can be done. The menu is easy if you read the instructions twice and the light output is perfectly fine at 50% white and blue. I'm getting some pretty great shimmer lines due to the fact my returns are drilled for anti siphoning and the holes create a lot of ripples on the surface. The Lunar blues are just awesome. Even my bland Ricordias are showing some cool neon effects. It's too soon to tell about anything else. I really wish I was at home looking at it.

[bklynreefdude]

Well after one day my previously bland ruddy red Ricordias are turning green in the center, absolutely amazing. I've read about "coloring up" on these and other forums but I didn't in my wildest dreams imagine it would happen after one day. Nothing like a little magic to make you forget about a scratch and a whiny fan and two bulbs out. I spoke with Carla and she is sending a replacement strip of leds, as for the other stuff, it's negligible I suppose. Anyone else reading this thread anymore? I thought this was the place to talk about Solaris but I haven't seen any new posts for a while.

[Reefbaby]

that's pretty cool that you're already seeing color changes! What was your previous set-up? Do you think your color spectrum is very different from your previous set-up?

very cool....

[bklynreefdude]

Hey Reefbaby:

Nice to hear from you. I was limping along on 4 96W pcs (2 10k, 2 Actinic) for years, replacing them about every 12 months. When I finally set up the new 110, I had decided I was going to gradually upgrade everything. I've had some success over the years with various "easy" corals and polyps but a lot of eventual die off even with good husbandry. It may be premature but all of a sudden I feel like I might be able to go from just keeping some things alive and losing others, to having a thriving aquascape. This could have happened with T5s or Halides but I felt like the timing and the benefits of the Solaris were just right for me. Right now the day whites and the day blues are only at 50%. I'm thrilled and will try to take some pics this weekend.

Matt

[wu398]

Still saving my pennies for the 72 in moster, wife working two jobs, have my 6 year old asking for donations at school, but i will have one. lol

Bill

[bklynreefdude]

Reefbaby:

To be more specific I guess since the blues and whites are equally balanced I'm running 15K temp now, much bluer in appearance than the PCs but I'm not sure how to calculate what their combined K would have been.

[bklynreefdude]

Hey Bill:

I hear you. I haven't gotten the bill yet. Put some money down on pre order when I had plenty but the wait ate the rest up pretty quickly. Looks like I'll make the credit card company happy for a month or so. The computer control is uber cool.

[wu398]

Yea last pluge in my build. also i know as soon as i order it a new and better series will arise. I will get one at same time i add water.

[bklynreefdude]

Off thread but I spent 3 months researching my 50" plasma TV that I bought over two years ago. The current model is half the price and has more features now but I've enjoyed my set so much all the time I've had it. You can't "win" if you play the early or late adoption game. Rule of thumb is 3rd or 4th generation which the I4 is. Good luck on your build.

Matt

[wu398]

yea I know. Just need to close my eyes and order. just a huge leep on new tech. look at the VCR. I know tech will evolve. I like my 62 in DLP TV too, but that 65 in plasma is calling my name. lol