natural removal of phenols?

[venn]

Does anyone know if sponges(porifera) will metabolize phenols? I have read that they will absorb dissolved organics but cannot find information regarding phenols. Shawn Wilson at www.reefvideos.com has a sump/refugium that is designed to encourage sponge growth. Would this help with water quality enough to make a difference? Any links to articles on this matter would really be welcomed.

[V]

looking at the text book version for the commited.

Phenols, sometimes called phenolics, are a class of chemical compounds consisting of a hydroxyl functional group (-OH) attached to an aromatic hydrocarbon group. The simplest of the class is phenols (C6H5OH).
http://www.wordiq.com/knowledge/images/6/63/Benzene_circle.png (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Image:Benzene_circle.png)


Although similar to alcholes, phenols have unique properties including relatively higher acidities due to the aromatic ring tightly coupling with the oxygen and a relatively loose bond between the oxygen-hydrocarbon. The acidity of the hydroxyl group in phenols is commonly intermediate between aliphatic alcohols and carboxylic acids.
http://www.wordiq.com/knowledge/images/3/3f/Benz4.png (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Image:Benz4.png)


Loss of a positive hydrogen from the hydroxyl group of a phenol forms a negative phenolate ion.
Phenols are often germicidal and are sometimes used in formulating disinfectants.
Many phenolic compounds possess estrogenic activity.




ok so enough of that jargan, man u kinda pick a hard one to explain without a PhD. i think it needs alittle explaining cause some folks might not know what your talking about my man!

the main problem with explaining it is there are so many other chemical factors that come into play with this one, cause many exist & cross over in all walks of life!

for the simplicity of it all, lets call them carcinogenic organic fowlers.
we have tannens, which are organic particles floating in any given body of water usually giving a dirty visual effect. we have aniline, with is an odorless organic fowling oil like substance that bonds with phenols at the waters surface.

honestly its made in all walks of from rubber products to pharaceuticles. then lets rip open on the phenol compounds, these are the really fowling organisms, trademarked by the dead fishy smell and are generally classified as nonspecific metabolic inhibitors. they too are a by-product from todays industries, sadly that polute our oceans & waterways.

petrochemical & rubber are the main producers, although the chemical chain is found in almost all things we eat & use at some point! in regards to water quality, they seriosly undermind the oxygen levels & being a true carcinogen they are damaging to both us and aquatic animals. its been shown in studies on mullet that the main toxic effects are manifested on the nervous system due to the dissolution of lipids, whereas in the circulatory system phenols act as hemolysing agents of the erythrocytes.

the main purpose was to identify some physiological and biochemical changes in the mullet blood as a consequence of exposure to phenol and certain observations about the behavior and gross pathology of poisoned fish were also made.



as per your question about sponges motabolising phenols. it would have to be another agent or bactera on or within the sponge that would further feed or break down them i would imagine, but im sorry i cant pin point from any dirrect experience or knowledge. i threw in some sponges under the scope just for u view pleasure though!
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/nwhi/images/microscopic_sponge2.jpghttp://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/nwhi/images/microscopic_sponge4.jpghttp://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/nwhi/images/microscopic_sponge3.jpghttp://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/nwhi/images/microscopic_sponge1.jpg

[CarmieJo]

V,

Good description and really cool micrographs!

[venn]

Hey veriann. Thanks for the info. I need to get me one of those microscopes J . Those are cool pics. It would be great if one could utilize animals or bacteria to rid the tank of these nasties. I recognize it still might not completely eliminate the need for protein skimming as I’m sure there are lots of other water tinting substances that need to be removed. This question came to mind as I pondered the copepod podcast. I had thought that someday I would like to try my hand at breeding fish (specifically centropyge). I have been digging around to find information on this topic for over a year now. One piece of the larval rearing puzzle seems to relate to water quality and control of microorganisms. Copepods appear to be one of the first foods being used. It seems to me that any system that attempts to improve water quality with protein skimming, ozone, and/or UV sterilizers will also affect copepod naupli survival. Since water quality is very important when raising these fry I thought filter feeders in a dark refugium might be a good solution in the short term. I know, I know. I’m crazy to think that I might be able to breed pygmy angels (I think maybe a little naïve). They are such a beautiful group of fish. Even if it never pans out though I have enjoyed the learning experience. It would be great to hear if anyone else has got this crazy idea in their head.

[V]

activated carbon of the highest grade should remove contaminants of this sort quicker that protein skimming because of they are forced though the matrix & impurities are absorbed. it depends on the water ratio that is moved. it thwater flowing though the carbon is like 1turnover of the volume in 12 hours, and your protein skimmer is 3times then the skimmer has more contact time. this is an example only.

let us know how your idea pans out

[fat walrus]

Wow, Veriann......good stuff.

I use a mixed bed resin and matrix carbon. I got no time for those pesky phenols.

[V]

what constitutes the mixed resins blub? u remember that haygen mixed product i asked u about awhile ago, u think that would help or hinder the process.