Cured LR in new tank

[cmay]

Hi everyone.

When I reach the stage of filling my tank with saltwater and 4" DSB should I leave my tank 1 - 2 weeks before adding LR or can I add LR before taking advantage of LR die off to cycle the tank (is this a bad idea)

Also my LFS state their LR is cured, however I have read high water flow should be used, MY LFS have their LR in huge tubs and water movement does not seem to be high and defiantly not even, my first reaction would be to continue the process at home with higher water movement and detailed scrubbing or is this not to much of an issue in a new setup.

[Koby!]

I would not wait 1-2 weeks before adding live rock. I would also try to get non-cured live rock if possible bc it has more dying things on it and will help your cycle along... with cured LR your cycle will prolly take longer. i think that the high flow that u read about might be just for filtration purposes because the rock is a better filter with high flow..

[V]

firstly they should have some movement in the curings tanks, hooking up a protein skimmer is just not enough unless its the biggest unit your seen..
as for the cycle. this the first set-up? if your starting from new or from scratch i would use dry rock for the better part, with some realy nice show pieces of live rock to kick start the process, & give a better viewing look. this way u can save some money for the ongoing costs that u will encounter!

as for whether to add cured or not cured, there's going to be die back no matter what, so if they charge more for cured rock, the choice is going to be yours.
something to keep in mind is that not all live rock is equal, the quality changes, and more to the point it can be host to some orsome and benifical animals. we check our rock as standard at the time of purchase & before we add them to the tank, but some of these standout animals will not survive a cycle, so keep that in mind when making your choice.
if your starting from scratch, going the raw route & seeding the tank at the most will cost you some extra time, which is invaluable in my opinion! cause im still learning!

[gwen_o_lyn]

Buying "mostly cured" rock from the LFS will shorten your cycle. There will be die off when it's out of water on your journey home. It's rare for a LFS to have fully cured rock unless it was traded in out of a previous setup.

Non cured rock can take up to 6 months to cycle.

I wouldn't scrub the rocks. It won't hurt anything, but not necessary.

[V]

i feel a rock debate coming up!

within any body of water if the nutrient level is sufficent, the bactera's reproductive rate can be calculated under controlled conditions. use the total surface area of object + replication optimisation and you start coming up with figures. taking into account your variables x times incrimental stage observations for collinization and your have your potential averages within the fields.

6 months to be cured kinda sounds abit rich for me Q.

i also believe the term "cured" as much as i love it, is wrong terminology. because we are talking about living cells, they have a pre-programmed gene to reproduce only so many times before dieing!
a level we deem cured is at a saturation point of consuming detectable nurtients within peak ranges, whilst all the while they are building apon each other till they die! the reason cells would die is all or a combination of what follows....gross populations have increased to the point that the cells underneath no longer have access to those nurtients, (which incidently is consumed by the those ontop), oxidisation , the physical real-estate favoured has changed, frictional dislogments force them into the water collumn to be extracted, they reach the end of their life cycle and /or the nurtient levels (food) decreases.

and now after all that BS ive forgotten my point!

[pham411]

i perfer non-cured over cured because you simply get more life on an uncured rock than a cured 1. the trade off is you get lots more unwanted hitchhickers.

i started with uncured live rock straight from the ocean. after i got most the unwanted hitchhikers out, i let it cycle in a rubbermaid tub for 2 weeks then staight in my tank. my cycle in my tank took about 3 1-2 to 4 weeks.

[cmay]

Thanks for the feed back.

So..... I can choose between cured un-cured and maybe some dry rock.

Veriann:

I like the idea of less die back. In order for me to achieve this would I cycle first with my DSB and maybe a little seeding before placing my cured rock ??

If this is the case do I add the LR in intervals due to sudden changes in water parameters or will the result be minimum.

[Braves11]

I'm guessing that the more initial die-back you get from the live rock, the more initial beneficial bacteria will colonize your system from the rock. So, from this guess, I can guess again that your system will achieve more bacteria at a much facster rate than from cured rock which will take far more time to develop as much. Also I can guess in the long run, you can achieve more livestock faster if you use uncured live rock initially than using cured.
But don't confuse this with being able to add livestock sooner. In fact you will be able to add livestock soonest with the cured rock, but you will have to add very slowly. With the uncured live rock you start later but can add livestock at a much faster rate, and finish your grand plans faster.

Now 2 things. One, I was just really redundant right there wasn't I? 2, can anyone out there verify what I have just said?

[V]

ok, bactera consumes, then replicates, and so forth down the line! they are forever dieing back, and with low levels of nutrients its possible die back is due to starvation for lack of a better word!

when u start with bare rock, base rock, what ever u want to call it, theres nothing on it! bactera of another sort is present, but thats another story in itself & so that rules most of that out.
nutrients build up in the tank, fueling bactera to grow and muiltply. super strains will pop up over taking the rest, which nature handles on her own. think of "the act" of adding live rock like kinda cheating, cause most of this process should have happened and the rocks addition to "your tank" should in theroy have a new injection of hardy bactera in which to spread.

adding off the shelf rock(dry rock) from scratch takes longer for your tank to cycle in genral but the savings are in $ , not time! your can add your DSB, place your pvc props to keep the base rock off the sand (increases circulation & min detritus buildups) place the most attractive base rock u can find, then place show piece live rock on top, to which the bactera from those pieces will add the benifical mix!

adding uncured (sea to store to you) its teaming with loads of critters and bactera from that geographical area. u have to take the good with the bad with every piece, all you can do is check & double check it before it goes in, or if you have a QT tank, place it there to take care of the inital fowling die back & observation.. bactera in the main will continue to absorb your nutrient level till theres enough where they consume and convert so theres a stand off! more nurtients they convert more, less nutrients they slow replication with slow die back. hense the time when u test the levels are 0ppm across the testable board!

then theres the least cost efficent way, but the highest gains in regards to time & piece of mind! adding live rock someones cured in holding tanks to remove most of the fowling organisms definately can spead the process of the cycle. namely because the rock should "in theroy" be teaming with the super strain bactera that can handle your nutrient level quicker because the foothold is already established. in regards to the overall tank & live cured rock additions>its just a matter of min die back during transport(oxidisation), osmotic indifferences, and nutrient levels in the new body of water! so thats that! u pay though the nose for rock thats where u want yours eventually!


as for starting out fresh, its still my advice to buy attractive pieces that fit into your visual plan, keeping in mind how they would kinda lock together and be really stable at the base level. whether they are dry, uncured, & cured the choice is yours.
raising your temp alittle & bactera cultivations are available in bottle form as another add-in option, although natral cycling selection is just as effective & forces you to step back & take you time! id suggest your keep an aquarium log as well, makes it easy to track & explain whats happening.

just remember with ever addition, whether it be rock or animal, u will experience a small cycle regardless! so stocking rates of rock can be done anytime, stocking rates of animals have to be slowly. there is a formula thats been floating around for years, but i cant remember it. it was so many inchs x times the volume. anyways i would suggest stocking once the cycle has produced 0ppm in the tank, then 1 eddition a month max till you get a handle on everything!

i hope that answered what both you guys were asking, even if it was some of the same info you stated!

[cmay]

I've read the comments over and over again and I think its starting to sink in :P

I will assume my LFS has correctly cured their LR and is "teaming with the super strain bacteria" in order for me to reduce anymore serious die back (my understanding is that LR will continue to slightly die back) should I cycle my tank first with DSB and than add LR.

For instance if I found my cured rock to have the starting of an anemone my knowledge/understanding would tell me the LR (anemone) would do better placed in a tank that had already cycled.

Or should I not worry to much i.e. add salt mix and DSB leave two weeks and then add LR.

[V]

yeah your bactera do there stuff behind the scenes, so i wouldn't worry about that side of things really, its important to be aware of the whole bactera concept though! wether its alittle die back, or serious die back it doesn't matter, or that matters to you really is the time is takes to reach 0ppm in the 3 main fields of testing, ammononia, nitrate, and nitrites.

so add your sand with cheap black plastic on top whilst pouring in the water( cuts down on the snow storm factor) then that sit till your ready, then add what ever choice of rock you choose! a cycle of any type will happen, so if your new rock has a great big anem hangon then prob best to ask the LFS to remove it, or not purchase the rock, or better yet find out whether its a tough species & try your luck!:p

[Raggamuffin]

I will not term any of this "advice" I'll just tell you how I did it and let you draw your own conclusions as well as adding subtracting or just throwing every step out the window. :) The only thing I can say for sure is that this has worked for me in all my tanks.

PLEASE keep in mind this is for starting a tank from scratch!

1. I seriously cleaned out the tank and got all the bells and whistles set up.

2. I mixxed my water in the tank. Always fill with water before adding salt, generally 3/4 full to give you room to adjust then inching your way to full. Turn on all bells and whistles.

3. Wait 2-4 days, this is overkill but hey it doesn't hurt either, I hear 2 days is plenty. This is THE time to check for leaks and things going boing that should be going blurb.

4. I bought my bulk live rock (uncured), cleaned it a bit, and set it in the tank in no real fashion.

5. Over the next 2 weeks or so I turned the rocks here and there and did water changes.

6. Check for critters you want to keep and those you want out.

7. I moved all pieces into a few buckets with water paying attention to which rocks I wanted where and put down my pvc in the tank. From there I built the major part of the set-up.

8. Added my sand, I used an old trick my mom taught me as a kid useing an old butter tub.

9. Waited a month or so, the cycle should be pretty well along by here.

10. Went to the LFS to buy my finishing peices of cured rock. I was very very picky about these and with all honesty it was some great examples of cherry picking.

11. Wait for the cycle to balance....yer done.