This week I'm joined by Samuel Helms (Astrivian). Sam is joining me to discuss a recent project he and a friend undertook with a Denver Charter School class, where he used Marine Aquariums and the Talkingreef Podcast to teach high school students about various science topics.

If you are interested in getting more information on this, or if you want to participate, please send me an email at podcast@talkingreef.com


This show sponsored by:
CoralDynamics

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Here is a list of articles from Sam

Very cool topic. I wish i was able to do that type of study in my highschool years. There is a local school here that does that, every year a new group of kids come to the store to set up tanks. More do freshwater than saltwater but there is always at least one group that decides to do saltwater and they of course want anemones, sharks, and seahorses in the 10 gallon they are setting up.

Rob,

Great podcast! Kudos to Sam for finding new ways to reach the hearts and minds of kids, kids who will go on to inherit this great planet of ours. It has inspired me to look into my son's school (he starts the 8th grade next week) and see if it is possible to start a similar program. I certainly have extra tanks and some equipment that I could donate. We shall see.

And Rob, I agree with you - not every show has to directly relate to our tanks. I think this subject is just as important, as it has the potential to effect our hobby (by bringing in new people) and our society (as you state - one of these kids could become a great marine biologist.)

Well done!

Dana

I agree! I am passing this podcast onto the science teachers at the charter school that my son graduated from and ths school our exchange student is attending.

great... i hope they are interested... :)

Hello all,

I'm the teach that worked with Sam on the school project. He had mentioned on the podcast that we were going to try a reef club as an after school project. TR is going to be a great way to network and get ideas especially ones that are DIY. Maybe as things develop I can turn "reefkeeping" into an elective at the school. I would just have to spend time working out the logistics of turining it into an actual class.

I have a plethora of old tanks at the school I teach at, and I arranged them all together on an iron stand. The idea is to have one as the display tank while using the others as refugiums or sumps or whatever. I'll take some pics of what we have this week and post them on tr later. Maybe you guys can throw ideas at me as to how to get this thing going as inexpesively as possible (the more DIY the better), and most importantly - keeping it interesting to the kids. We have a fix-it guy at the school that has a shop and every tool known to man in it. So he could help the kids and I put together any crazy thing that we could use for the setup. Sounds exciting huh?

sounds awesome, and just so you know, Talkingreef will be along for the ride, supporting in all ways possible.

if you (or sam) wants, start a thread for this preparation of this next project, to collect ideas and stuff (maybe even some donated equipment.. :D ) i will please a link to that thread in the top of this thread for reference.

come on TR, lets help this project out.. :)

This is an exciting project. Let us know how we can help!

Oh there's Adam. You should lurk less and post more dude :D

So I wanted to include some notes regarding some stuff we couldn't mention in the show, unless we wanted to talk four another hour or so. Below are some good links to the global issues Adam and I discussed in the class. The ones relating to pfiesteria and snakeheads are especially close to me as I grew up in the D.C. area.

Snakeheads

Snakeheads are an exotic species of freshwater fish native to China. They are popular and unfortunate fish for noob freshwater aquariums, and, like many unfortunate marine species, are adopted by aquarists who do not realize how big these fish will grow. Snakeheads are predatory, and very much so. They can also survive out of water for days and “walk” across the ground using their fins.

Recently, a well-meaning aquarist had a couple of these in a freshwater aquarium and decided to dump them into a local river. See where this is going? The fish thrived in the local water systems around Maryland, Virginia, and Washington D.C. and are now threatening all native species. As mentioned, they are extremely predatory and quite large. The following links are some great references for these.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/fishingreport/snakehead.html

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/snakeheadinfosheet.html

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/art2002/snakehead.jpg

Pfiesteria

Pfiesteria is a dinoflagellate typically found in rivers and estuaries such as the Chesapeake Bay. Because of massive overnutrification of the local water ways, these dino’s got way out of control and led to massive fish die-offs. One of the more disturbing of these killed an estimated 10,000 fish in the bay at once.

Not only is pfiesteria lethal to fish, but recent evidence links it to brain damage in humans. These little creatures literally feed on human brain tissue, causing memory loss, dementia, and eventually death.

The cause of the outbreaks was wastewater from pig farms upstream. The amount of pig poop in the water could be seen from space as black water ways emptying into the James River, and Chesapeake Bay. Imagine, for a second, if you were to empty your cat box into your aquarium. Yea…bad idea.

http://www.aibs.org/bioscience-editorials/editorial_2001_10.html

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/bay/cblife/algae/dino/pfiesteria/pubs.html

http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C11/C11Links/www.mdsg.umd.edu/fish-health/pfiesteria/index.html
This site has some great microscopic images as well as biological data.

Open Ocean Aquaculture

This is a great idea first developed by the native Hawaiians. The concept is really simple: get a big enough aquarium and simply raise fish like tuna for the commercial food market; thus reducing the need for net catching. The problem is the size of the aquarium. For example, does anyone know how many gallons would be required to raise 3,000 haddock? About 158,503 gallons, or a tank volume of 600 square meters. I wonder how big the skimmer would have to be...
Rob, you can afford a tank this size right? :D

http://ooa.unh.edu/
This is one of the best sites with full explanations, articles, videos, and details regarding their studies since 1997.

http://www.lib.noaa.gov/docaqua/hooarrprept.htm
University of Hawaii’s OOA article.

Images of marine ick (Cryptocaryon irritans)

http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0497/0497_6.html
The image of the pink protozoa is almost exactly what we saw in the microscope.

Check out the publications "Simulation and Gaming," "Educational Technology," and "Educational Technology: Research and Development." Also, if you find a great article, remember to scan the references to find other good articles.

There are also some great organizations:
NASAGA (http://www.nasaga.org/)
Serious Games (http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html)
Games for Change (http://www.gamesforchange.org/index2.html)

Anyone who would like more information in regards to starting a similar program at your school, feel free to drop me a post or email at ASTRIVIAN@COMCAST.NET.

I agree! I am passing this podcast onto the science teachers at the charter school that my son graduated from and ths school our exchange student is attending.

Wow! That's great Carmie. If you need any suggestions, or more details as to how we did it, drop me an email (listed in the above post) and Adam and I can help.

Rob's right about this, the hobby is a great way to motivate kids to learn about science subjects. Some of the TR podcasts are great examples of this: light, nutrients, skimmers, etc. I know we have some younger aquarists on TR, what do you guys think? How much science do you think you have voluntarily learned as a result of this hobby?

Thanks. If you don't mind I will pass your email on too. It is a really strong college prep school (they were in the top 10 on the US News & World Report's list of public high schools when he graduated in 2005) and use a lot of innovative ideas.

Hey Rob and Sam,

I just wanted to say great podcast!! I enjoyed listening to this one. Using reef tanks as educational tools to generate interest in science is a big interest of mine. Once I take care of a few things I hope to talk to Rob and Sam about this more :D

Brian

Sure you can toss any one my email address. I would love to help out any schools that may be interested.

I have great news. Tonight I attended an open house for my son's school. My son is in 8th grade. In our meeting with his science teacher, a parent asked if there were any supplies that she needed for her class. Ms. Davis, my son's science teacher, answered "nothing - but I need help with various projects." After mentioning a few of the projects, she added "oh, and if anybody here know anything about saltwater aquariums - we have one over there that I'd love to set up." I looked to my left and there was a very old, but very nice, commercial aquarium set up! It even had a chiller!

After the oher parents left, I introduced myself and offered my assistance. She was very excited.

Over the next few weeks we plan to decide the direction of this little project. Turns out she even has a collection permit, so there is the possibility of setting up a tank with locally collected marine life.

And so, at age 42 (43 next month) it appears I'm going back to school. How cool is that!

I have great news. Tonight I attended an open house for my son's school. My son is in 8th grade. In our meeting with his science teacher, a parent asked if there were any supplies that she needed for her class. Ms. Davis, my son's science teacher, answered "nothing - but I need help with various projects." After mentioning a few of the projects, she added "oh, and if anybody here know anything about saltwater aquariums - we have one over there that I'd love to set up." I looked to my left and there was a very old, but very nice, commercial aquarium set up! It even had a chiller!

After the oher parents left, I introduced myself and offered my assistance. She was very excited.

Over the next few weeks we plan to decide the direction of this little project. Turns out she even has a collection permit, so there is the possibility of setting up a tank with locally collected marine life.

And so, at age 42 (43 next month) it appears I'm going back to school. How cool is that!

Wow that is great news! How exciting. We may need to talk very soon, I've got some ideas for you. I'm just too tired to list them tonight.

Brian

Brian -

Thanks. Any input / advice you have would be greatly appreciated. The first thing I've got to do is take a closer look at the equipment. I've never seen anything quite like it. It reminds me of a lobster tank combined with an aquarium, with all the filtration (including the chiller) built into the right side of the tank. It also seems a bit flimsy, so I guess the first thing is to figure out if it can even hold water!

I look forward to hearing your ideas.

Yes, this is great news..
we are all going to need to talk soon..
can you say skype conference call.. :D

Yes, this is great news..
we are all going to need to talk soon..
can you say skype conference call.. :D

I'm all about learning new things :) Skype could be cool. But don't I need a microphone with a headset to do that? Could you recommend a brand or model number? Affordable too of course.

Brian

yes, skype is easy.
you can get any type of VoIP, gaming, or chat headset.
here are some examples
http://us.accessories.skype.com/direct/skypeusa/accessoriesList.jsp?acctype=6

but just go to best buy or a local computer shop and pick something up..
you can get them pretty cheap

Yep - I need to do the same. I will purchase one this weekend. I am, however, going to be out of town next week at the annual CEDIA convention in Denver. Then I'm seriously thinking about going to MACNA. I'm really pushing things with my wife!

Yep - I need to do the same. I will purchase one this weekend. I am, however, going to be out of town next week at the annual CEDIA convention in Denver. Then I'm seriously thinking about going to MACNA. I'm really pushing things with my wife!

If you come to MACNA be sure to stop by MARSH's frag and invertebrate booth for charity. We will be announcing the reef related charity very soon, it should be cool :) But I'll be living at that booth most of the time, so stop by and introduce yourself!

Brian

OK Brian. If I go, I will stop by for sure. I really want to go, but being gone the entire week prior, coming back for a few days, then heading to Houston ... I'm going to owe my wife BIG TIME!

OK Brian. If I go, I will stop by for sure. I really want to go, but being gone the entire week prior, coming back for a few days, then heading to Houston ... I'm going to owe my wife BIG TIME!

Yes but you can remind her of the quality time you will be spending with your son!

Carmie - my wife has said many times what I lack in being a good husband, I make up for by being a great dad!

My husband is a great dad too IMHO. And, our son, now 18, is turning into a wonderful young man. I think that great dads make great kids!

This podcast was great and very timely! I found Talkingreef last week and I have listened to all of the episodes to date so far. I've been in the hobby, FW for about 5 years, SW for about a year (FOWLR). I have been wanting to setup a Reef tank for a while though. We started homeschooling this year and I have two elementary aged children that want to learn more about the ocean and its sea animals. What better way to teach them, and a reason to set one up, than with an reef tank. I haven't seen any information on this thread yet about working with the Homeschool community. I think at least some would have great interest in the topic and since there is not as much red tape, would be an easy way to get the idea up and running. A question I have for you guys is what to teach to elementary children about the aquarium, grades K, 3? My first thought was just fact gathering. I am definitely one who wants to teach them the foundations of the hobby/science not just random facts. I think I understand a lot about the foundation, but sometimes that isn't the easiest to convey to children.

I appreciate this podcast and look for any assistance you are willing to offer.

Thanks,
Shawn

This podcast was great and very timely! I found Talkingreef last week and I have listened to all of the episodes to date so far. I've been in the hobby, FW for about 5 years, SW for about a year (FOWLR). I have been wanting to setup a Reef tank for a while though. We started homeschooling this year and I have two elementary aged children that want to learn more about the ocean and its sea animals. What better way to teach them, and a reason to set one up, than with an reef tank. I haven't seen any information on this thread yet about working with the Homeschool community. I think at least some would have great interest in the topic and since there is not as much red tape, would be an easy way to get the idea up and running. A question I have for you guys is what to teach to elementary children about the aquarium, grades K, 3? My first thought was just fact gathering. I am definitely one who wants to teach them the foundations of the hobby/science not just random facts. I think I understand a lot about the foundation, but sometimes that isn't the easiest to convey to children.

I appreciate this podcast and look for any assistance you are willing to offer.

Thanks,
Shawn

Shawn,

Hey, WELCOME TO Talkingreef!!! The home school community is a very interesting idea and while grades K-3 are a little young for some facts and concepts, they can accomplish more than you think with the right guidance.

I think that age isn't too young to start demonstrating to them the "nature of science". It is a similar concept to the "scientific method", but expanded beyond just "hypothesis formation - collecting data - accept/reject hypothesis".

If you are interested in this, please PM me, I will be announcing a project soon that seems to be right up your alley.

Brian

Hi Shawn,

:welcome: to TR. Our son is 18 and a sophomore in college so I don't have much input into the homeschool question. That being said, my 5 year old niece said the first time she saw my maroon clown "That's a fish like Nemo." Now to me that certainly says that even a pre-schooler makes observations and extrapolations! So, go for it! I bet you will be pleased with the results.

That being said, my 5 year old niece said the first time she saw my maroon clown "That's a fish like Nemo." Now to me that certainly says that even a pre-schooler makes observations and extrapolations! So, go for it! I bet you will be pleased with the results.
Thanks Carmie. BTW, Go Bucks! I live in Indiana, but originally from Columbus, OH. I really am quite excited about what they will learn in doing this project. Observation and memorization is definitely going to be my focus at least at this point. Worked with them on the Nitrogen cycle today as we were setting up a new FW tank for another pair of Convict Cichlids that needs to be isolated from the others. We were just reviewing the cycle over dinner and I believe they may have it. Another few days of working on it and I think they will have it memorized.

Thanks,
Shawn

Welcome to TR scanaday. Hope you enjoy your stay. Feel free to ask anything :)

Shawn,

I love OSU! It's my alma mater and I actually lived in the Stadium Scholarship Dorm when it was in the Stadium!

I'd encourage your children to do the testing and recording too. That way they have the rote knowledge and get to do some fun chemistry stuff and see it working in real life.

Having them do the testing is a good idea.

You know what, we may have to start a thread on all this (using aquariums in education). Honestly, not a bunch has been written regarding their use as an instructional tool. However, aquariums are simulations, as i mentioned before, and a whole bunch of articles can be found on simulations (see Rob's pdf post way up top). A lot of the writing can be pretty boring, however, and an active Q/A post might be a great idea. Brian is working on something as well that, when it is anounced, should be perfect for this type of work.

I am glad to hear you are thinking of using an aquarium with younger kids. I wish we had the opportunity to work with some of the middle schoolers during the study Adam and I did. The key is the same, i think, regardless of age. This is what i will need a longer post for, but i will get it up here soon.

And rob, a skype conference call may indeed be in order here. So many great ideas are hard to formulate on threads.

Wow!! These are really great ideas and concepts! I love the educational aspect and what better way to get our future interested in our planet and conservation of it. Even if the kids are too young to understand the chemistry of it all, it will provide them with a love and respect for nature, animals, and earth and hopefully make them think twice about how they choose to live their lives.

Wow!! These are really great ideas and concepts! I love the educational aspect and what better way to get our future interested in our planet and conservation of it. Even if the kids are too young to understand the chemistry of it all, it will provide them with a love and respect for nature, animals, and earth and hopefully make them think twice about how they choose to live their lives.

Amen! Educate them while they are young, before they get to be adults that are set in their ways :D

Brian

Wow!! These are really great ideas and concepts! I love the educational aspect and what better way to get our future interested in our planet and conservation of it. Even if the kids are too young to understand the chemistry of it all, it will provide them with a love and respect for nature, animals, and earth and hopefully make them think twice about how they choose to live their lives.

Oh most definatly baby...err reefbaby :p . One thing we observed in our study was that the students seemed to react quite well to just having something in front of them; a living, needy creature that required them to do their research to survive. I was just in the process of transcribing some interviews, ohhh so boring, and something jumped out at me. I quized them on the fish they wanted (diet, conditions, original location, habitat) and they knew the answers. I didn't remember this, glad i had it on tape. They actually retained the info on the longnosed hawkfish (the "punk rocker fish" as titled by one of the students), mandarin, lionfish, clown, sea dragon (more or less), and sea horses. Not bad considering we never actually taught it to them--all that was from their own research.

Hopefully this information will be carried with them. Like Brian said just above, the younger the better. Even if they forget about it for 10 years, they might just come back to it later. However, although i am always excited to hear about new aquarists, it does come with risks. This is partly the reason i was emphasizing the importance of tank bred fish to the students. They honestly didn't know that many were caught 'nemo style' from the reefs. Too much demand for wild caught can have a devistating effect on the reef populations. If enough newcommers, such as myself honestly, seriously consider the pet they are getting, perhaps they will become more consciencous of the hobby, the enviroment, and the need for responsible conservation.