Hello,

Thankyou for putting together an informative and entertaining podcast. I have a question that I feel would be a great one to address on the show.

I have a tank which has been up and running for two years. This tank does not have a built in overflow. Currently, I have a canister filter, but I would like to remove it and add a fuge/sump to my system.

However, this would require that I add an overflow box. I have heard many things about these boxes that have me concerned. (Such as cloging drains, loss of suction, and issues during power loss.) Are these concerns justified? Or have overflow boxes recieved an unjustified bad reputation?

thanks!
-Matt

personaly i would say the only way the drain would get clogged is if you take the screen out or something dead floated into it. not sure about that. as long as you keep it clean it shouldnt clog for a very long time. and the loss of suction i have never heard. if whatever creating the suction breaks then yes. and also the one i set up we did tests on and if you use a power head to get the suction then it needs to have alot of GPH. we went with the pump it called for. and during power loss your pump wont be pumping anything into the display tank so nothing would be draining. the only way a power loss would be an issue is it the pump you were using to create the suction didnt come back online when the power came on. but in my studies before i atemped a sump on a buddies tank. i didnt come accross to many chances like that. i would say either the people just didnt like how it was working or another major problem other then just the overflow. i am interested in hearing about them clogging lol do you have any of those links? the one i setup from CPR has two diferent filters a big holed filter inside of the tank in the chamber and another sponge like filter over the drain hole itself. i love the CPR overflow box. i think it works well...

RocketSeason, I have a 180 gallon All-Glass aquarium that is not reef ready so when it came time to turn my aquarium from a fish only to a reef and add a wet-dry filter underneath the tank I had to add an overflow. I have addressed your concerns below.

1. Most overflows are gaurded with small openings that only allow water through and maybe something the size of a piece of krill (the occasional nudibranch will get through too). So their is honestly no reason to worry about clogging. If your are extremely worried you could add a piece mesh pad around the small openings to gaurd against anything but water going into the overflow. It will also quiet the waterfall noise somewhat.

2. Having the siphon break has not happened for me since I setup the overflow. Most overflows come with two u-tube that syphon the water from the internal part of the overflow seperately so even if one syphon breaks their still one going and your return pump can only return as much water comes out of your tank so their is no reason to worry about flooding the main aquarium. This is also true in the situation that your return pump should fail.

Overall in my opinion if you don't want to get a new tank or drain your tank to drill and attempt to convert it to a reef ready the overflow will do you just fine. It will also allow you to setup your sump and increase total water capacity which is always a good thing.

Can you recommend a brand/model of overflow box? I don't really want to go with a CPR model.

I am thinking of using a QuiteOne 4000 return pump connected to a SCWD. It needs to pump water up about 4 feet to the top of the tank. I am not sure what the headloss will be for that, so I don't have a clue how large the box needs to be.

Thanks again!

i know the CPR is based on how big the display tank is. im not sure about any other but i assume its rated the same..

if you have a diagram of all the bends and pvc you want to use you can calculate the head loss here click here (http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php)

also after you figure that out you can click here (http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php) and figure out what size drain you would need for the amount of water being put into your tank. i did this calculation on the one i did to second guess what the company said.

also i dont know if you know this or not so ill just throw it in the air. make sure the sump can withstand the return tubing flow when the power goes out. ( think it can be fixed with a inline check valve. but i didnt look into that. but what i mean is when the power goes out your return tube will have a syphon action and actually return the water it was pumping up when the power went out plus more untill the water level gets below the end of the return nossle. but like i said you might know that :)

RocketSeason, if your really interested why don't you create your own sump by getting a rubbermaid tub and buying just the overflow from a company like ProClear Aquatics. It will save you tons of cash and as far as a return pump I have about 4 feet also and I use a Mag 7 drive.

just wait a few more hours, and you will be getting video presentation of overflow boxes.. :)

talk about timing... ;)

Ha! Thats awsome Rob!

I love your podcast by the way. (I think I mentioned that) I am currently downloading all of the back episodes. What a wealth of information!

I like how I can filter out all of the less the reputable information that is out there by simply listening to your show.

awesome...
if you are not already doing so, make sure you subscribe to the show using something like iTunes or Juice receiver, this way they will all download autmatically in the backgroud as soon as i release them.. :)

An overflow box is something I have been seriously thinking about as well because I am fairly new to this style of reefkeeping and I have decided that a sump/fuge would be a great addition to my setup. I saw the overflow boxes on marine depot by CPR and was kinda psyched!

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_searchitem.asp?strSearch=overflow&IdCategory=FWOFEB&vendorname=CPR&text=CPR&step=3&itemsonpage=15

When I posted this information on my local club board... EVERY - SINGLE - RESPONSE was NEGATIVE. Now I am getting a bit scared off.

Of course, since I only have a 29 gallon, the cost is quite comparable to buy a new one and drill as opposed to buying the overflow. I just know that if we come home and the house is flooded, my wife will see to it that my renewed fascination with Marine Aquariums is toast.

Rocket... why remove the canister? Even when I get my sump done, I plan on keeping it there for chemical filtration purposes. I have mine filled with live rock rubble and carbon, with a space reserved for a phosphate remover.

I would LOVE some information from folks with first-hand information on these overflow boxes.

Also, does anyone have photos or designs for the sump/fuge units they made using a glass aquarium rather than a custom acrylic box?

welcome JeffDubya.

there are mixed reviews on overflow boxes, and 99.9% of them relate to the siphon breaking.

using a box that maintains siphon or something like the CPR that will auto start the siphon (when using the lift pump) is a great way to go.

the boxes i showed im my video have been employed on my systems over 2 years now, and i have never had a siphon problem. as long as they are checked, and cleaned regularly they should be pretty safe. nothing is fool proof, im just sharing my experience

Oh my goodness. One of my first posts on the site and I have already attracted the attention of "The Rob." :) Thanks for the welcomes. I looked for an introductions thread but did not see one.

Yes. What they always talking about is the siphon breaking. Before I did some research I didn't understand that, and thought they were talking about something mechanical. Doh! (whoops, maybe I should have kept that to myself)

Drilling a tank seems like an interesting project, but I am not sure I'm there yet. An overflow box just seems like a nice stopgap until I get to that point. Too bad they're so expensive!

Oh my goodness. One of my first posts on the site and I have already attracted the attention of "The Rob." :)

lol

i don't know about you guys but throughout many stores in canada and stores around me, the overflow boxes were not engineered like yours rob, it is just a box, no seperaters to keep the siphon. This is actually the first i've seen of an overflow box like that. I'm willing to bet many people who worry about siphons have yet to see an overflow box like yours

(hey i've already hit 101 posts, yippee)

Rob, I had your video on in the background when I was working. However, I did try and go back and look at this portion that you mention.

"They quietly skim up to six times more water than units with tubes."

That means these overflow boxes are different than yours.

How do they siphon... without a siphon tube?

that quote was from my video?? i dont rememebr saying anythgin like that...lol

as far as siphoning, you must have a siphon tube of some sorts. boxes like the CPR, have a section of cormed plastic that act as a thin wide tube, but the concept is all the same

No, the quote is from CPR literature. I brought it up because since it doesn't have tubes, I assumed it was somehow drastically different than your system and was wondering how it worked.

nope, not dramatically different, in fact it only "looks" different, the function is the same.

as far as siphoning, you must have a siphon tube of some sorts. boxes like the CPR, have a section of cormed plastic that act as a thin wide tube, but the concept is all the same

it is that thin wide tube that spreads flow across a wide surface that helps prevent the congregration of air bubbles that collect at the high arch-point of a u-tube that will eventually lead to a siphon break. plus the air check attachment at the top of the unit will make it even one step safer, if properly used with a pump or powerhead.

Yeah marine depot makes it pretty clear that they want you to buy a little pump to go with it. Of course, it bumps the cost another $30 or so, but it makes it that much more reliable...

See, this is interesting, Because I have heard that CPR overflow boxes are the ones most prone to siphone breakage because of the desgn.

This was about 2 years ago that I had this discussion last about the CPR box... The word was that without the pump, the boxes won't keep a siphon.

Jeff, If I were you, I would try drilling that tank. Especially if you don't have anything in it yet. You will need to build a custom overflow around the hole, but you will save money, and it will be safer. My tank is already established, plus the bottom is tempered...so...yeah...

... already established :(

I picked up a CPR overflow for my nano at a recent Atlanta Reef Club meeting. So far I'm wildly happy with it. I have the siphon tube going into a maxijet and that helps to keep the siphon going. If I see it losing suction, I just pop off the tubing, drain out the water, give a drag on the tube, spit out the water, and back the tube goes on the maxijet. It is just one of those things to check daily while doing your top-off... no biggie...

So you keep losing suction on your overflow Bernie? That dosen't sound good to me.

"...If I see it losing suction..."

Heh, I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

My theory on the losing of suction is 2 fold... my maxijet doesnt really supply enough suction to keep the vacuum going, and whenever I allow my sump pump to suck air it blows micro-bubbles almost directly into the overflow...

It is still much more reliable than my DIY overflow and takes up much less space in my tank, so I'm happy with it so far...

This isn't making me feel any better about getting an overflow box! :rolleyes:

Here is the overflow box that I have.
http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=pca_pre-overflow&Category_Code=

I have decided that when I do the sump/fuge project, I am going to go with a drilled tank. Let's face it, an overflow box is the second best way of doing this, no matter how you slice it. It will be a lot of extra effort, but I want to do it right.

That means drilling the tank.

At least in my never to be humble opinion.

If you have an overflow box and it works for you, outstanding.

Here is the overflow box that I have.
http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=pca_pre-overflow&Category_Code=
yep, that looks like the exact one i have

I whole heartedly agree that an overflow is second best to having the tank drilled...

Here is the overflow box that I have.
http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=pca_pre-overflow&Category_Code=

I am not sure that has the rear baffle in it though.

Does it?

well from the side angle it looks just like mine, so i would assume it does, but i cant confirm

I contacted them asking about it.

Edit: No baffle on the box. I will add one myself.