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View Full Version : Cleaning a Sand bed



wwest
07-16-2006, 03:25 PM
ok i have always cleaned my ysand bed with a syphon and a kitchen sifter. both always get the water all clouding and dirty. does anyone have any suggestions on cleaning a sand bed? the way i do it works but it takes awhile and the waters nasty afterwards. thanks in advance..

CarmieJo
07-16-2006, 11:01 PM
I just clean little bits of my DSB with the syphon (gravel cleaning type) each time I do a water change.

V
07-16-2006, 11:11 PM
if u didn't check whats in the sand to start with, try running the magnet through the small areas ur disturbing with your cleaning, any heavy elements should stick for extraction if u didn't check at the start

V
07-16-2006, 11:13 PM
prob best to map visualise zones in the tank for cleaning, & do what ever u chose to do to clean those zones, but target the next zone on what ever time frame u chose next

stang5_o2002
07-16-2006, 11:18 PM
I just got done doing a wc on all 3 tanks. I always just syphon the top layer of sand, then when the waters nasty i run filter pads in the hob power filter to clear the water back up. Im interested to hear if anyone has a better\easier way to do it too.

Amphibious
07-17-2006, 08:51 AM
I clean my sand bed using a piece of 3/4" OD rigid clear pipe. Holding my thumb over the end I sink it deep into the sand and release my thumb. Here's a series of pics....

http://www.theculturedreef.com/sand-1.jpg

I push the pipe into the sand and release my thumb.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/sand-2.jpg

The sand rises into the pipe.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/sand-3.jpg

Let the sand settle to the bottom of the pipe.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/sand.jpg

Allow the sand to drop out of the pipe.

http://www.theculturedreef.com/sand-4.jpg

Then slowly raise the pipe to allow the crude to flow into the water column. By doing this I'm feeding the filter feeders. Any excess goes into the overflow and is trapped in the filter pad.

Dick

Rob
07-17-2006, 12:18 PM
for those with a DSP Ampibious's way is the best i have found
if you have a DSB you don't want to attack it all with a gravel cleaner as you will remove ALOT of the beneficial bacteria and life in there.

however if it is a shallow sand bed, then regular cleaning with one of those gravel cleaners or syphon is usually the best option

V
07-17-2006, 03:42 PM
Man this subject is massive, here goes...lol
Cytoplasmic membrane (CM), and Intracytoplasmic membrane (ICM) systems!
These two fancy words actually mean something in regards to bactera, even more specific, anerobic bactera. without getting into to much of the tech mumbo jumbo, its easyest way to describribe it is like our own skin, with the upper layers connected to the lower levels. with vesicles, tubules, or thylakoid-like sheets bridging the gaps! now just below the ICM (skin) there are pigment-proteins that use light and oxygen tension to regulate the formation of the ICM, such that ICM formation is induced when the oxygen tension is lowered and the most extensive ICM development occurs during the textbook anaerobic periods. (low oxygen levels)

Now a typical anaerobic phototrophic bacteria contains both Carotenoids and bacteriochlorophyll. once again without getting into all the mumbo jummbo, these are both the bulding blocks & the vehicel that transfer light energies into another form of usable energy the bactera can use! If u could see it , it would most likely look like a lighting storm between low clouds & highter ones.
In processing terms the closest example would be like plants, we all did high school science, u should have an idea...lol
There are other factors in play, actually, alot of other factors, like Quintones & Cytocromes, but thats left alone, mainly cause my head hurts...lol

aerobic phototrophic bacteria is the flip side of the coin, the carry out anoxygenic photosynthesis under aerobic conditions. although the presence of Bchl in cells is a property shared with the anaerobic phototrophic bacteria, the aerobic phototrophic bacteria cannot use light as the sole source of energy under normal conditions. Taking into account that most of the common species bactera are strictly aerobes, the best growth is obtained with organic substrates being the main source of carbon and energy. during the last 10 to 15 years, the number of aerobic phototrophic species characterized has increased greatly, resulting in two marine and six freshwater genera, all of which are phylogenetically located in the >α subclass of the Proteobacteria. although this may seem in dirrect contridiction with what we belive to be happening in our tanks, it is in fact the diversity of the species that allow for muiltible functions as a whole.
light is in fact used by aerobic bacteria as a supplementary source of energy, these bacteria could be called photoheterotrophs. however, the sense of the term “photoheterotrophy” for anaerobic phototrophic bacteria and for the aerobic phototrophic bacteria differs significantly.

Light is thought to be the major source of energy (ATP) for anaerobic purple phototrophic bacteria during anaerobic photoheterotrophic growth, whereas organic compounds are the source of substrates oxidized to provide reducing power and intermediates for biosynthetic anabolism. furthermore, most anaerobic purple phototrophic bacteria are capable of photoautotrophic growth, whereas aerobic phototrophic bacteria are not. all the available data indicate that in aerobic phototrophic bacteria an organic substrate is used as the main source of energy,using carbon for biosynthesis independently of the presence of light. They both have crossing factors during the course of their lifecyles.

So, the short of it is, what we belive to be 100% true about bactera seems not to be the case, but where it applies here is that with our DSD, Atomspheric pressures do a part and max growth is attained under the longest running anerobic conditions we can achieve!
now, im off to work. have a good night folks!

V
07-17-2006, 03:56 PM
nice posting by the way Amp! it looks like u dont touch the bed oftern though

Amphibious
07-17-2006, 05:42 PM
You are absolutely correct, V, and very astute. I combine a little cleaning of the DSB with feeding the filter feeders. I may only "clean" a few square inches at a time and about once a week at most. I chose a different area each time.

I have to confess, reading your post gave me heart thrombosis, thought I was going to die or worse throw-up from overload. :rotfl: I'm beginning to understand why my Father refused to send me on to higher learning. He, a college educated man himself, knew I'd never make it. :no: All he ever encouraged me to do :madmad: Was, "Get yourself a good trade, you'll never be out of work." So, I became a pipefitter.

Thanks for the lecture/explanation. What is it that you do down under???

V
07-17-2006, 10:27 PM
I've seen alot of people in the trade earn alot more that that educated people thats for sure! education is one thing, trade is another, life skills meet somewhere in the middle. your achievements Amp must be good, because you seem happy,youv'e still got your finger in everyones pie, & u love & have an understanding for the hobby more than anyone i know!
As for what i do, im a joker with a pay master job for one of if not the biggest transport company within australia on the verg of a promotion. & id give it all up tommorow to become a marine biologist or something along those lines, or maybe a games tester by day , porn star by night.i havn't quite decieded yet...lol

Amphibious
07-17-2006, 10:39 PM
Thanks V. I have done OK by the trade route. In the trade, I was most happy running a crew of men, I liked the challenge of laying out work, figuring the best route to run pipe, setting equipment, etc. I was a working foreman, I worked with my men, Had to, to keep some of them working. :agree:

fat walrus
07-18-2006, 12:01 AM
Amp, if you come clean my live sand bed, you get first dibbs at any baby dragons!

Amphibious
07-18-2006, 06:04 AM
Woo Hoo, you can expect me there this afternoon! :D

fat walrus
07-18-2006, 06:10 AM
Woo Hoo, you can expect me there this afternoon! :D
since you only clean a couple inches at a time, by the time you're done, that baby eel will have died from old age. haha :cool:

V
07-18-2006, 06:19 AM
a visit from the walking bushman is in order as well. all tax deductable ;)
did i hear u say BBQ?

Amphibious
07-18-2006, 06:20 AM
Do ya think the little Misses will put up with this old man living in the house for awhile? :)

Amphibious
07-18-2006, 06:24 AM
OMG! Blubber, Veriann and Amp together for beer, brats and BBQ. The Misses is gonna love that Trio.

How about another round of tinnies, Mate. Argh!

fat walrus
07-18-2006, 06:31 AM
Do ya think the little Misses will put up with this old man living in the house for awhile? :)
no problem, old mariner. as long as you promise not to pee on her rose garden. lol
it is kind of funny, because when we moved, there was only one room free of fish tanks, and the Misses said it would be be the nursery.........with cherry baby crib and cherry baby furniture. i guess at least it is still cherry. :D

Amphibious
07-18-2006, 06:50 AM
LMAO! Well, some day it will be a nursery, for baby HW Dragons. :rotfl:

Do you ever share the bs that goes on here at TR?

pammy
04-17-2007, 07:25 PM
Hello. I see that there are a few types of gravel cleaners and siphons. Are any better than others? Is a siphon better or a gravel cleaner for a shallow sand bed with fine oolitic sand? Do you lose any sand each time you clean it?

Thanks!
Pam

wwest
04-17-2007, 07:39 PM
I like to use the smaller tubed cleaners and i recommend them for other people as well. I like the smaller cleaners because you get more sand instead of water. I believe the bigger the tube the more water you pull from the tank and the less sand you can clean. small tube is slow and low water. IMO anyways.

Shallow sand beds are tricky to clean because you don't have a lot to loose and every time i clean i end up with a bucket of water and sand. In pursue of a nice tank i have came to realize that there is a point you will need to add sand to the tank, not very often but at sometime you will so i would recommend cleaning the sand with a siphon tube (of your choice) and when the sand gets a little low just reverse the process but with sand. I use a funnel, hard clear tubing and a cup. If you pour the sand into the funnel down the tube and spread as you want and then let the tube sit in the tank for a few minutes you won't have much of a sand storm. Thats the way i do it anyways :)

pammy
04-17-2007, 07:56 PM
Thanks Wwest. Still so much to learn! :) How often should you clean a SSB ? (monthly?) Would you suggest waiting for a few months before cleaning it for the first time, or start out on a schedule immediately?

The smallest diameter siphon I see is 1". Would this one with a gravel guard be good....or would it be better without a gravel guard.
Marina Easy Clean Gravel Cleaner, Medium, 15in 2in dia., w/6in Tubing and Bucket Clip - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=HG11062)

Would something like this be gimicky?
Mr. Cleaner (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12753&Ntt=gravel%20cleaner&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1)

Thanks!
Pam


I like to use the smaller tubed cleaners and i recommend them for other people as well. I like the smaller cleaners because you get more sand instead of water. I believe the bigger the tube the more water you pull from the tank and the less sand you can clean. small tube is slow and low water. IMO anyways.

Shallow sand beds are tricky to clean because you don't have a lot to loose and every time i clean i end up with a bucket of water and sand. In pursue of a nice tank i have came to realize that there is a point you will need to add sand to the tank, not very often but at sometime you will so i would recommend cleaning the sand with a siphon tube (of your choice) and when the sand gets a little low just reverse the process but with sand. I use a funnel, hard clear tubing and a cup. If you pour the sand into the funnel down the tube and spread as you want and then let the tube sit in the tank for a few minutes you won't have much of a sand storm. Thats the way i do it anyways :)

wwest
04-17-2007, 08:13 PM
A lot of people might say otherwise but i clean mine when it needs it lol. Averaging about once or twice a month, twice a month would be more likely. I do weekly water changes and i usually switch back and fourth between just siphoning the water and cleaning the sand bed.

Gravel cleaners i feel are entirely users preference. I would suggest starting with the cheapest and then if you don't like it simply buy the next one in line. I wouldn't start with anything fancy because the fancy ones i have seen in action didn't really work that great considering you are spending $10-20 on themThe one i use costs $3 and when everything is said and done i don't even use what i bought lol. I usually get a longer tube and replace the one foot tube, next i get a longer hose. So at the end i only use the connector. lol

Here is the one i use.
Gravel Cleaner (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=HG11060)

Mine is very close to that one, I purchase mine from the LFS i work at and if i can remember right Wal-Mart sells the same brand.

I hope i helped ya some :)

pammy
04-17-2007, 08:55 PM
You did help! Thank you. That's the one I was leaning towards after you said the siphons are best for a SSB :)

Have a good one.
Pam



A lot of people might say otherwise but i clean mine when it needs it lol. Averaging about once or twice a month, twice a month would be more likely. I do weekly water changes and i usually switch back and fourth between just siphoning the water and cleaning the sand bed.

Gravel cleaners i feel are entirely users preference. I would suggest starting with the cheapest and then if you don't like it simply buy the next one in line. I wouldn't start with anything fancy because the fancy ones i have seen in action didn't really work that great considering you are spending $10-20 on themThe one i use costs $3 and when everything is said and done i don't even use what i bought lol. I usually get a longer tube and replace the one foot tube, next i get a longer hose. So at the end i only use the connector. lol

Here is the one i use.
Gravel Cleaner (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=HG11060)

Mine is very close to that one, I purchase mine from the LFS i work at and if i can remember right Wal-Mart sells the same brand.

I hope i helped ya some :)

Snail Freak
04-17-2007, 09:03 PM
I'm new to saltwater but when i put my live sand into the 10 gallon tank (future brittle star tank) it gets 'dusty' as sand usually does, but when it all seddles, the top part of the sand is all small particales and it doesn't look very good. Will syphoning get rid of this? or that magnet idea?

sorry it's not my thread but i figure if were on the topic....

wwest
04-17-2007, 09:13 PM
No, its a good question. When the sand settles you will have dust on your sand, rock and sometimes places on your glass. IMO you will always have dust in your tank awaiting disturbance. When i move around my sand to this day i have dust resurface. I don't use live sand so I'm not sure if you could clean it before you put it into the tank to minimize the sand storm and settle or if that would take away the live sand part of it. Live sand usually has some water in the bag so the dust is already below normal.

When you put the sand into your tank and before you put the water into the tank, take a plastic trash bag and place on the bottom of the tank covering the sand. Then put a plastic bowl of decent size one top of the bag and pour your water into the bowl moderately. This will keep the sand storm down very well. Just FYI of course. I wasn't for sure if you knew about that trick or not.