Hello all, just wanted to know if anyone had opinions on christmas tree worms.
Where or How do you get them?
Do you buy certain corals that already have them or are they a hitch hiker only type thing?
Do they only live on certain corals?

most often found on Porities Coral. need to feed well. most of time sold as christmas tree rock

Do Porities live long? Are they a good coral to have?
I have read both sides of this. Some say that they die and are not a good coral to keep and some say they are fine.
Has anyone had any personal experience with Porities?
Do they all have worms?
If a rock comes with say 3 worms will it ever get more once its put into a tank or if it has 3 is that all it will have?

porities are not difficult to keep. most the bad you hear about was actually from the stone age of reefkeeping, and a lot of hobbyist was concentrating on the worms and not the coral. the worms will multiply.

to my knowlege, porites is a medium level coral as long as you do your part. Phyto and Zoo must be dosed and some of the research states that well established tanks seem to handle the porites better. remember that if the coral dies, the worms inside die with it. then you have just an expensive piece of live Rock.

what ghostbear29 say is a common reputation. the worms share a symbiosis with the porities, but the worms have been known to survive without the coral. it is not surprising that if one is unable to keep porities, that same person would not be able to keep the worms.

Thanks all....
I have seen a Rock at my LFS with several of them on it. I thought they were very cool and have wanted one ever since.

I guess my next question would be if you have a good fuge would phyto and zoo multiply on there own or is this something that has to be harvested?

Porities does best under moderate to intense MH lighting and needs a high Ca and Alklinity concentration like other stony corals. The worms are filter feeders and therefore do best in mature systems, and/or tanks with regular additions of phytoplankton. Overall neither is difficult to keep as long as the proper conditions are provided.

...I guess my next question would be if you have a good fuge would phyto and zoo multiply on there own or is this something that has to be harvested?
it usually has to be added. you can add it using commercial products or you can culture your own, essentially for free..
see podcast videos for details

i have not kept porites before, so i will refrain from comments on experience

These are one of my favorite animals to keep, unfortunately Christmas tree worms are not easy to keep and require phytoplankton at least twice a week to live any length of time. The larger the tank and the larger the refugium the better.

I agree with a previous poster that they can be kept without a host coral, although the pacific ones tend to do better with them. I have not kept pacific porites before so I can't comment on that. But I can share what I've found about christmas tree worms.

1. They are filter feeders and the size of the food they filter and eat depends on their size. So if it is a very small worm it probably feeds more heavily on phytoplankton. The larger worms may eat zooplankton, but what they eat is really unknown. Read this article for more info:

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen21.html

2. Some may reproduce in reef tanks, but I have not seen a study that says they do yet. What is likely happening in cases where people report them "breeding" in their tank is that a very small worm has now grown into a worm large enough to notice. They can be very long lived animals and grow slowly. More information can be found here:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/toonen.htm

To quote from the end of the article: "However, our dismal success rate with these animals for more than a year or so in the aquarium suggests that we are failing to provide them with anything approaching ‘proper’ care! That means we cannot delude ourselves into thinking that the animals died of old age if they fade in our aquariums within a year or two (no matter how comforting we may find that excuse), and that is why I suggest they be avoided by any but experienced aquarists who want to experiment with maintaining these beautiful animals."


I hope to find proof that these animals can breed in the aquarium, but so far I haven't found it. I have put several homemade rocks in my tank that contains my specimens and I hope to find one growing on one of my homemade rocks in the future. So far 11 months into keeping them I have not seen any new ones on my homemade rocks.

3. Since these are potentially long lived animals (10+ years), I would not consider anything less than 3-5 years a "success" in keeping them. As with many other invertebrates they can slowly starve over a period of a year or more.

4. If you want to keep them, I think phyto is a requirement, at least twice a week, preferably more. The amount of phyto or zooplankton generated by a refugium is probably not even close to enough.

5. I started off with 7 specimens in my tank. I did not feed phyto to my tank for about 5 months and one of them perished at the end of that period (I did not know they needed phyto as they call came as hitchhikers on rocks). Another one perished in a bad salinity accident on my part. The other 5 are still alive 11 months later and appear very healthy. I feed my tank a 1-2 cups of phyto every 2-3 days and I also add selecon and DT's oyster eggs that MIGHT be small enough for them to feed from(no proof). I also have several species of snails that broadcast spawn in my tank and that might add to their food supply, but it is unknown.

6. It is a common misconception that you can target feed christmas tree worms phyto. According to Dr Shimek it overwhelms the feeding mechanism and most of the phyto is far away from the worm before it can clear its "mouth" and resume feeding. This is why it is recommended to just feed phyto to the entire tank and give the worms time to feed.

OK, enough boring info right, here are some pretty pictures of mine:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/EducationThread/07272005bisma2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/EducationThread/04102005bisma2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/EducationThread/07282005hitchhiker1.jpg

Brian

great write up brain, thanks

yeah, great write up. brian sure does what he preaches.

yeah, great write up. brian sure does what he preaches.

Well, except for keeping things short :o I REALLY need to get better at being concise.

Brian

ya know i have that problem too sometimes..
its like i "can" explain it briefly, but what if...

ah well, i guess to much info is better than not enough in these cases

it takes patience to explain well. me, i'm impatient and try to say it as brief as possible.

yes very nice posting. u know when someone really takes the time to write up these informative post.the text speaks to u right away! besides the length being a give away, its the finer things, like caps at the start of sentences, & paying attention to how the sentance flows according to proper english text.
compared to our normal hack on the keyboard for everyday posts...lol

love the picks too! very nice & delcate, no damage evident anywhere

Thanks Brian. Makes me sure that as beautiful as they are I am not ready for them in my tank. :)

Thanks Brian. Makes me sure that as beautiful as they are I am not ready for them in my tank. :)

It is great that you realize that you are not ready for them, early on in my reef career I made some mistakes by getting animals too early!

Heck, my tank might not be ready for them, I'm only 11 months into keeping them and I won't consider anything less than 3 years a "success". At least I'm almost 1/3 of the way there, but the critical point is 1 year.

At least mine came in on aquacultured rock, so if they perish, I didn't reduce a natural reef trying these guys out.

Brian