Marine Neccessities

[ShaneO'Mac]

Hello,

I recently became quite interested in one day converting my 75 gallon aquarium into a marine aquarium. I have been reading up when I can about the basics, and I understand the basics, at least.
-------------------------------------------
My question is...What equipment do I need for a successful Marine Aquarium?
My list is as shown below...

- Aquarium +
- Stand +
- Live Sand
- Live Rock
- Heater +
- Lighting
- Protein Skimmer
- RO/DI
- Refractometer
- Test Kits
- Sump/Refugium
- Siphon Hose (Water Changes)
- Five Gallon Bucket (Mixing Saltwater) +
- Containers for water changes +
- Algae Scraper +
- Power Heads +
- KALK (Still not quite understanding the use of this)
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Is there anything else that I may need?

Thank you,
Shane :D

Note: Everything that has a "+" next to it means that I already have this item.

[Rob]

well, first of welcome to Talkingreef.

this is one of those hard things to answer...
i woudl recommend getting through as many of the podcast epsiodes as you can. i really cover alot of this. i think the first two episodes cover most of the items you listed. other critical shows woudl be on substrates, filtration, and kalk (since you said you were interested)

the main thing is what type of tank are you goign for in the long run.
is your end goal a reef tank (with coral and stuff) or do you want to stay with FO (fish only)

[Rob]

forgot to mention rule #1
the MOST IMPORTANT thing in this hobby is to go slow, and have patience.
slowly plan what you want, and slowly take your time to do it.
this is an expensive hobby, and if you rush it or plan bad (or not at all) it will get even more expensive...lol

[fishcounter]

Shane:

Welcome to TR! I am also new to the hobby so my experience is limited. However, here are a few suggestions:

Figure a cost for plumbing into your list. To convert your tank you will probably need to drill some holes and run some pipe for things like the sump and the refugium.

Add the cost of a couple of 5 gallon buckets. You are going to need them.

I have a personal belief that automating your aquarium helps to keep it stable by keeping it on a schedule. So, consider a timer for your lighting system and possible an auto top off system to replace the water that is lost in your aquarium. I have a 90 gallon system and I loose at least 1 gallon of water a day.

Add salt to your list. I use Instant Ocean and I buy the 160 gallon mix. I think that most people on this forum use it. Its fantastic salt.

You will probably want to add a small 40 watt fluorescent light to hang over your refugium.

You may need a fan in your canopy or a chiller depending on where you live and how hot it gets.

Add a journal to the list. This is one of the most important pieces of equipment for a salt water aquarium. Especially for us new guys.

You are going to need a Pump that returns the water from your sump to the main display tank. YOu can either get one that actually sits in the water located in your sump, or you can get an external one. There are pros and cons to both.

You might consider adding battery operated air pumps to your system. I just bought two for my tank. When the power goes out, they sense a loss of AC power and turn on whcih allows oxygen to continue to get pumped into the water. They are a good purchase if you don't feel like loosing your fish during a power outage.

A very important piece of equipment is a quarantine tank. This can be basic and probably should be. Its just a tank, with a hang on filter, basic lighting, a heater, and a place for your fish to hide. I use large pieces of PVC pipe in mine for hiding places.

To answer your question about kalk, if you are planning on keeping coral and most invertebrates, they need to have the ability to draw calcium and bicarbonate (measured by alkalinity) out of the water to grow. They use these substances and process them to make calcium carbonate which is deposited into their skeletal structure. Kalkwasser is added to our tanks because it boosts both the calcium and bicarbonate levels. Its essentially pickling lime and fresh RO water.

Good luck and keep us posted. I hope this helps. I am sure tons of others will chime in as well.

[Rob]

great write up eddy.
Shane, if you are using an old FW tank, make sure it has never been treating with copper based medication (used to treat diseases/parasites like Ick)

as you can see Shane, there are probably a million things to write here...lol

so we will just take it one step at a time. its easier for us to pick off your questions in smaller chunks.. :)

so take in this info, listen to the podcasts... then load the gun and start riffling your questions. feel free to start new threads for each question as it help keep things on topic, and gets your answer quicker.. :)

[wwest]

i converted a 39 gallon tank to salt water and the only thing that comes to mind right now. is do alot of research on the skimmer before you buy it. i bought a seaclone and i like it but it is hard to manage and almost everyone dislikes seaclones lol. and like rob said "go slow, and have patience." and remember salt water is costly..

just two cents from a fellow rookie. :-)

[Rob]

yes, invest in a good skimmer, that is very important

[fishcounter]

Yep, I bought a euro reef and the thing is amazing! However, thats just my humble opinion. It has only been running for 2 weeks but its doing a great job. Just a suggestion. There are tons of great skimmer brands out there. Check out the podcast Rob did on skimmers to get a better idea of what type of skimmer your looking for.

[wwest]

also i forgot dont skimp on the water. wally world has a R/O machine in the back and its 37 cents a gallon here. r/o water compared to brita filtered water or tap water makes a big diference. you can use what ever you want but i highly recommend R/O water..

[fat walrus]

welcome, ShaneO'Mac. buy as many books as you can afford and find a good store with knowledge, experience, and healthy livestock.

[wwest]

When you go to a live fish store (LFS) do research on everything they say. i have been misinformed a few times and it cost me in time and money.

[ShaneO'Mac]

Wow,

I must say that I am extremely pleased with the responses that I recieved. I will definatly follow the advice that I have been given. To answer a few questions, and pose a few more myself, I am wanting a reef tank. The colors, and shapes of the reefs always astonished me...the look was always so natural, yet alien in a way...
I understand that I should not rush into this, and trust me, I will not rush. In fact, I don't actually plan on conversion of the tank until sometime next year when I will ensure myself that I know everything I need to know.
Though I must ask, why should I worry if the tank has been treated with copper based medications, and what should I do if it already has been? I remember putting in medications that were specifically for Ich. I hope that it doesn't mean that I need a new tank...
I'll definatly be reading all that I can, and listening to the podcasts. I'll be making this my "Marine Home" so to speak.

Thank you all,
Shane

PS...And if you don't mind, for my reference I'm going to list all of the equipment I'll need as listed.

- Aquarium +
- Stand +
- Live Sand
- Live Rock
- Heater +
- Lighting
- Protein Skimmer
- RO/DI
- Refractometer
- Test Kits
- Sump/Refugium
- Siphon Hose (Water Changes)
- Five Gallon Bucket (Mixing Saltwater) +
- Containers for water changes +
- Algae Scraper +
- Power Heads +
- KALK (Kalkwasser)
- Automating Systems (Lighting & Top-Off)
- Salt
- 40 Watt Flourescent for Refugium
- Fan in Canopy/ Chiller
- Journal +
- Return Pump
- Quarintine Tank
- Books, Books, & more Books

[Rob]

great to hear you will be going slow.. this will be the BEST thing you can do.

in regards to copper.
Copper is a serious issue a marine tank.
anything beyond a trace amount will kill your corals, snails, crabs, seastars, all inverts. and can even seriously effect some fish.

now if a glass tank is teated with copper, the copper will be absorbed into the silicone seams.

see this thread for a recent example of exactly this
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1208

[Rob]

yes, im pretty sure that ICK AWAY contains copper.
check out that link i posted as there are some recommendations to prep the tank.

if you have more specific questions on that, feel free to start a thread for it..:)

[ShaneO'Mac]

No kidding? I just read somewhere that Malachite Green in fact does not contain copper...I'll look into it more though.

Shane,

[ShaneO'Mac]

I swear...
I knew I liked this forum for some reason...;)
I go out and find my own answers, and come back to tell everyone else, and somebody beats me to it. lol
I'll look into it more though to make sure.

Thanks again,
Shane

[fat walrus]

i was told that malachite green contains no copper. malachite green is usually bottled with formaldahide. i was told that malachite green and copper are not stable together in a bottle. i'm no chemist though. there is suppose to an index somewhere that list all the ingredients in all registered medications because of poison control for humans. perhaps Rob or veriann can find it.

[ShaneO'Mac]

This is what I found...

Composition: Malachite green does NOT contain copper. It is chemically
well characterised - it belongs to the triphenylmethane family, as
below:

--------------------------------
All found at... http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/malachite-green.html
(Didn't know if citation was needed, better safe than sorry)

Shane,

[Rob]

yes, malachite green doesn't, but for some reason i thought there was still copper in that product. i might be wrong...

i will dig for more info

[ShaneO'Mac]

Oh,
Thank you so much Rob!

Shane,

[V]

hey hey welcome shaneOmuppet, no thats to long, can i just call u muppet!

wow, some great advice & knowledge from the get go! very impressed!
and double wow, when u list components like that, i get scared cause i think my backside will get cold cause of the lack of insulating material in the wallet! lol
best to break it into stages. build up everything in dry form, then when u have enough equiptment to keep something successfully, then the next stage is stocking! i know temptation is going to eat away at u, and nothing more exciting & frustating than seeing the potential still sitting there in dry form(just ask RB)
but as the other have mentioned, it will save u heaps, heaps & still heaps of money if u take the zenreef path! just dont forget, a new toothbrush & cleaning magnet. u will need it...lol

[ShaneO'Mac]

Hah,
If you want to call me muppet. Go for it, lol.

I'll definatly add those items to my list. Yeah...I know how it is to rush into something, my freshwater aquarium was something that I definatly rushed on. With that, I wanted to have the goal of maybe getting one item for the tank every week or so (paycheck)...heh, I remember one day going to PetSmart, and purchasing $120 worth of stuff in that one day...which was like, 5 different items.
But alas, I will never do that again...I'm going to stick to whatever goal I've set for myself, which is to not start buying anything until I know what I need, why I'll need it, what it does, and how to set it up.

Of course, right now...my main objective is finding out if my once used medication for Ick has any copper in it. So I can remember to put the "Toxic Metal Sponge" on my list.

Thanks again,
Shane

- Aquarium +
- Stand +
- Live Sand
- Live Rock
- Heater +
- Lighting
- Protein Skimmer
- RO/DI
- Refractometer
- Test Kits
- Sump/Refugium
- Siphon Hose (Water Changes)
- Five Gallon Bucket (Mixing Saltwater) +
- Containers for water changes +
- Algae Scraper +
- Power Heads +
- KALK (Kalkwasser)
- Automating Systems (Lighting & Top-Off)
- Salt
- 40 Watt Flourescent for Refugium
- Fan in Canopy/ Chiller
- Journal +
- Return Pump
- Quarintine Tank
- Books, Books, & more Books (I've got one now)
- Toxic Metal Sponge (Maybe, but better safe than sorry)
- Toothbrush +
- Clearning Magnet +

[wwest]

also to shane. with a chiller being cool and expensive i use a computer fan and a computer power supply. works great for me i can drop the temp about 5 degrees in a few hours.. i have it on a timer around 12 and 3 oclock works well for me. just wanted to let you know before you spent alot of money on a chiller. and i saw it on your list. :-)

[ShaneO'Mac]

Thank you wwest, I'll definatly take that into mind...saving money is ALWAYS a good thing, lol.

Shane

[ShaneO'Mac]

Hmm...I haven't heard anything about the copper yet. So, to be safe than sorry...I'll just buy the toxic metal sponge anyway. It couldn't hurt, right?

Oh, I had a random question actually...can small inverts and things live in a certain compartment of your refugium? I thought that I heard somewhere here on the forums that they found a lobster looking shrimp, which actually came out to be a type of pistol shrimp and he/she said they are going to let it live in their refugium.

Thanks,
Shane

[Rob]

Hmm...I haven't heard anything about the copper yet. So, to be safe than sorry...I'll just buy the toxic metal sponge anyway. It couldn't hurt, right?
sorry, i haevnt had a chance to dig up that info.. but yes, it woudl probably be a good idea to treat it as such


Oh, I had a random question actually...can small inverts and things live in a certain compartment of your refugium? I thought that I heard somewhere here on the forums that they found a lobster looking shrimp, which actually came out to be a type of pistol shrimp and he/she said they are going to let it live in their refugium.

Thanks,
Shane
yes, that was my shrimp.. :)
your fuge will house many times of small inverts. what types are up to you and what you want the overall purpose to be (see the refugium podcast for more details)

[ShaneO'Mac]

Ah, no problem about the copper thing, and yes...I am actually going to check out that podcast...right...now!

Shane,

[ShaneO'Mac]

Quick question Rob...
Is there a thread around here that you can talk about refugiums exclusively? If not, I wanted to ask...I've been listening to the refugium podcast, and you mentioned that you can keep more delicate things in there...I beleive that the example given was sea horses. Could this work for something that I've been wanting to keep...a Stomatopod (Mantis Shrimp)?
I understand that then my refugium would have to be made out of acrylic.

Thanks,
Shane

[fishcounter]

Some people keep mantis shrimp in their fuge. You can do it. They can be nasty little buggers though so continue reading up on them. IMHO I would keep them as far away from my tank as possible, but thats just me. ;)

[Rob]

Quick question Rob...
Is there a thread around here that you can talk about refugiums exclusively? If not, I wanted to ask...I've been listening to the refugium podcast, and you mentioned that you can keep more delicate things in there...I beleive that the example given was sea horses. Could this work for something that I've been wanting to keep...a Stomatopod (Mantis Shrimp)?
I understand that then my refugium would have to be made out of acrylic.

Thanks,
Shane
there is not really a forum setup for refugiums exclusively, but feel free to create new threads as you need them for new topics...

as for the mantis, yes. if it fits in with your goals of a fuge, then yes, you can keep one in a fuge