Getting ready for Prodibio

[Rob]

i have been doing some research, and have decided that trying out Prodibio would be a great test for us to perform here.

i am planning on getting a 6-8 week supply (have to confirm this would be enough time to test) and documenting my progress here.

im going to try and post dosing details, and take photos of many of the corals as i progress through this. likely in 1 week intervals.

my call here is for questions or comments regarding this test. things you want me to look for, and anything like that

[CarmieJo]

I think it would be good if you did a series of photos at the same distance from the tank with the same tank and ambient lighting, using the same lens, f-stop, shutter speed, and ISO every time. At the end of the test you would have series of time lapsed photos that could prove really beneficial.

[Rob]

yes, i do plan on getting that..
im am doing more research now on the system. i do have some concerns before i start, and trying to find answers now

[avgjoe]

If you can, don't change any other variables. For some reason people in this hobby like to change lots of things all at once which does no good at determining what change was for the better or worse. Keep a good log of dosing and a journal of visual effects. Setup a tripod (don't move it) and take a pic everday. Like CarmieJo said, don't use automode on the camera for this will produce different results every time. This will show the results better than anything.

[Rob]

yes..
i am currently doing some more research, as i am concerned it will kill off my macro algae, i might have to setup something for that if i start to have problems.

which is another thing, i just added the fuge, so i want to give it some time to stabilize before i start.

i will be doing photos, full tank, and individual corals. probably weekly.
it appears that 6-8 weeks is the minimum in which affects would be noticeable, so i have to plan out a bit more.

open to any other suggestions

[pham411]

yes, jumpin on the band wagon huh rob. well do this together since i just started prodibio also. it will definately be cool to see the differences. can you post your water parameters, and what prodibio suplements you plan on dosing.

[Rob]

i have not actually figured out what im going to dose.. and i wasnt planning spending the $60-70 on CV either, so i still have some planning to do.. ;)

[fat walrus]

hey guys, can anyone define the similarities and the differences between the zeovit and the prodibio system? i saw a friend's tank today that started zeovit 2 weeks ago. turns out he got the stuff from another friend that decided it was not right for him. i know no details about the third friend's tank. i don't have much time to research or experiment, so can anyone answer my question in one paragraph?

[labman]

but it is hard to explain what they do is simuler but they do in difference ways. both appear to say they were 1st and the other is the copy cat my theroy is the goals are the same they just do it in different ways and I don't think the intent was to copy cat the other just what they do.. one difference I have heard is that with prodibio it is hard to overdose which is fairly easy with zeo I just got rid of all my zeo stuff I am going to try prodibio I know I am insane you don't have to tell me that. oh one big difference that Zeovit is German Prodibio is French :roll: lol. Rob if you are intrested I can get one of the largest Prodibio distribitors in the us to do a podcast with you.. hey what can I say I have allot of connections for still being a newbe.. oh and I told you that you could get Eric Borneman on good podcast by the way.. hmm guess I probably didn't answer the question well... :rotfl:

[JayBeDriften]

My question is what is Prodibio?

[labman]

more info also at www.prodibio.fr

The Prodibio Company combines science, advanced aquaculture techniques, and cutting edge biotechnology. Each ampoule is packed under nitrogen providing excellent product stability, retaining a strong concentration as it is sheltered from oxygen in the air.

http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/accueil/btn_objective.gif
To conceive and produce the most effective modern aquaculture products and present them in easy to use packaging.

http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/accueil/btn_technology.gif
Prodibio selects and uses specific non-pathogenic micro-organisms designed for aquaculture, the quality and purity of which are insured by stringent bio-chemical tests. Quality assurance and control programs are applied during the entire manufacturing process to guarantee an excellent product.

http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/accueil/btn_biotechnology.gif
The rapid development of the aquarium hobby, especially reef and marine aquariums, confirms that man is in search of a successful and naturally balanced aquarium. The aquarium hobbyist of today increasingly turns away from chemical products, as the by-products are often more harmful than beneficial long-term. Microorganisms are integral parts of nature and are particularly important in the confines of an aquarium for the control of water quality.

http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/accueil/btn_decisive.gif
The packaging in ampoules under nitrogen allows a very long conservation isolated from the oxygen of the air. This presentation is very economic because 100% the product is efficient whenever needed.

[JayBeDriften]

Rob, where are you placing your order for this. My sister is leaving to Europe in a few weeks and if it can only be sold their I might ask her to pick up some for me.

[labman]

there are two us vendors I know of right now..

http://robsreef.com/

no not our Rob lol

and where I ordered from he has free shipping till the end of august tell scott I sent you and select local pick up oh yeah select local pick up and mininum order of 50.00 bucks he also has Reef roids I here it's great food ordered some of that too..

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=86_188

[Rob]

thanks dave, i just placed my order.. :)

[labman]

We can do a comparison I will take some before and after shots during shots also I am t5 and you are MH so that could be intresting can't wait to get it.. Did you find Scott helpfull guess you must have lol :rotfl:he's a good guy.. honest OMO

[Rob]

yes, he was very helpfull.
ordered the prodibio from him, and some MH reflectors, that he went out of his way to find for me..

overall happy with the buying experience and services

[V]

i filled in the gaps, cause the web site doesn't really tell u sqwat!
its an overview with to many selling points.
hope this breaks it down abit more> although unless u work in a lab how are u going to gauge what populations u have or are introducing with your tanks!


http://egbeck.de/skripten/bilder/zap0534.jpg
Nitrosomonas europaea
this bacterium does not use photosynthesis for its energy, but rather uses the energy produced by “burning” ammonia with oxygen for its energy! While not using photosynthesis for energy is not unique, “burning” ammonia with oxygen is. because of the large amounts of ammonia this bacterium needs to consume for energy to divide, cell division can take up to several days.


http://genome.jgi-psf.org/finished_microbes/images/nitwi.jpg
Nitrobacter winogradskyi
this bactera is orsome, its definately one we need in our systems.its metabolically versatile in every respect. It can grow as a chemolithoautotroph by deriving energy from nitrite oxidation and fixing carbon dioxide as its source of carbon or in the absence of nitrite it can grow as a chemoorganoheterotroph and utilize organic compounds as sole carbon and energy sources.when provided with a combination of nitrite and organic compounds, N. winogradskyi can utilize both substances simultaneously in mixotrophic growth which put simply makes this bactera an all round hitter!

If u guys want a full run down on ammonium oxidating bactera (http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/1066) click on the link


ok next target!
Genus Paracoccus
taxonomy (http://www.microbiology.pl/amp/archive/vol342000185.pdf)
theres actually 20 species of genus Paracoccus> if u guys want the list let me know
but this below is the species in question!


Name: Paracoccus denitrificans Authors: (Beijerinck and Minkman 1910) Davis 1969 emend. Rainey et al. 1999 Status: Approved Lists Reference: Int. J. Syst. Bacteriol. 30:340 (AL)
Risk group: 1 (German classification) Type strain: ATCC 17741, DSM 413, LMD 22.21
The short of it is they have flexable aerobic respiratory system that doesn't take a scientist telling u they a benifical to be believed!
i'll post a link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=structure) to more detailed info resource that i use!


http://textbookofbacteriology.net/pseudomonad.jpeg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/Pseudomonas_aeruginosa_01.jpg/240px-Pseudomonas_aeruginosa_01.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pseudomonas_aeruginosa_01.jpg)
Pseudomonas genus

these can be both benifical & potentially nasty buggers.
but basiclly these are oxygen loving rods that can move about acting as a bio agents in the water, breaking down crud agents of spoilage and degradation.
there main strength as most of the above bactera is there ability to metabolise a variety of diverse nutrients within out systems. the strain is also what gives us our ear aches.



ok, i agree with some of the research & target species they produce, i belive some of it has to be a case by case basis, which they dont cater for, its just a predetermined course u follow to achieve max populations within the pecieved volume ratios

let u how it goes rob, should be interesting. what tank are u performing this on?

some extra reading for those really commited to programs like this...
cultivation of Anaerobes (http://www.dsmz.de/microorganisms/files/Cultivation_of_Anaerobes.pdf)

[Bernie]

V, after reading that, I feel really really stupid...

[V]

why? u have no reason to be?

[Rob]

awesome V, thanks
yes, i will keep everyone up to date

[V]

rob are u trying it on the main dislplay, or a smaller side tank?

[Rob]

on he main display..
again, shooting to bring out more color in the corals, hopefully.. :)

[V]

yeah thats the reef booster! whats program or comonents of this program are u running, planning to run? u might as well run out of what u already have rob, its the ame stuff we dose for anyways really!

[Rob]

well i havent started it yes, but i will be starting with:
reefbooster
Bioptim
bio-digest

[V]

and whats your research led u to believe, man im hammering u for info & u havn't even started yet...lol

[Rob]

well, im still not 100% sure what to think.
i know from the research its is a great concept. and im sure in tanks with algae issues and excess nutrients it will help.

what im really interested in is what it will do for me. since i dont have algae issues or any other major issues. my goal is to see what it does to the corals. research has show that people get better growth and coloration.. but we will just have to see.

im still strong in the camp that good husbandry is the key, and no product alone will make you successful

[V]

yeah your right about the husbandry, it would be interesting to see the overall price difference between the program & the individual elements we already add! straight off the bat im guessing the intial setup has to be absorbed, but working it on concentration rates will be factoring question.
they have really set it up so u follow the prescription diet of dosing! i havn;'t broken the target ions down for study yet but i will pretty soon when i get more time! since i still have to set up a new tank in the future, im thinking along the lines if this program is not BS then kicking it off near the start might not be a bad idea. its hard coming off oldschool principles, but if its scientificly sound without the usual testimonal crap that comes with it, & after seeing a couple of folk on here running it, id definately look at it!

[Rob]

well, most of the stuff is not stuff there would "normally" dose. there are some supplements like strontium and iodine that you can get for your system, but a majority of the system is based on certain types of bacteria, that we may get in our LR, but not in the amounts provided by this system.

im am only using these components right now, not the supplements like iodine and strontium. i may use these in the future, but not just yet.

[avgjoe]

once an ampoule is opened does it need to be used up immediately or can you store if for later use?

[labman]

once it's opened the product must be used that is why I plan to share dosage between my two tanks. they say over dosing is difficult but I am sure it is possable. you would lust use the closest dogage for your tank using all the contentd. that is also why Prodibio put them in such small containers

[Rob]

my Prodi showes up today.. :)
time to start the documentation, and get started on dosing.. :)

[CarmieJo]

Cool Rob, I am anxious to hear the results.

[fat walrus]

good luck, Rob. is there really a miracle?

[Rob]

nope, there are no miracles, but lets see if its a good product.. :)

[Nyles]

Please let us know what products you will be dosing and if you will be using the "Reactor" bacteria (forgive me for lack of knowledge)

I did research this a while ago and almost fell over when I tallied up the costs on my 200 gallon system. If the results are good I will re-look at it, my goals with the system would be to create a very clean water environment (no no3 or ph04).

Very interesting none the less.

[Rob]

not sure if you are confusing this with ZEOVit
ZEO using the reactor, and is quite expensive.

for my system about 200 gallons total water volume it cost me about $100 for all the stuff to start with, will need to replace various parts as i use them up..

i will be starting a new thread shortly that will detail what i have, how im dosing it, and pictures of my system as i go through the process

[Nyles]

Yes, my bell has been rang, I talked to rob today, my system is same size, I am going to order enough for 5 months of biodigest and bioptim and see how it goes. I see Melev is using it too.

[Rob]

yep,, there are a few people jumping on trying it out.
i have about a 3 months supply, and will be reevaluation after that point as to what if anything to continue. i will likely let it go for another three months, just to give it a fair chance, but if at that point i see no results i will likely discontinue..

only time will tell.. :)

[Nyles]

So... any outcome on this test? I'm still interseted. How is the sofies doing, SPS?? Keep us posted.

[JayBeDriften]

I'm also very interested in finding out about what you think of the product? Would you also happen to have a link for the Zeovit system. I would like to compare and contrast them both as a next purchase.

[Rob]

starting to get some die back on the macro algae, algae in the tank, though limited in the start, is about the same. coral coloration is mostly the same, i have notice some minor improvements, but not even enough to capture on the camera, im still not convinced of much

[JayBeDriften]

Rob, would you happen to have the URL to the Zeovit product. I'm thinking I might test that route since your reporting very limited succes with the ProdiBio product so far.

[Rob]

zeovit can be found at www.zeovit.com
it is by far more intense and more expensive, but the results really vary.

but hey check it out and let us know if you go with it

[JayBeDriften]

I'm still fiinancially recovering from the whole unemployment event and starting a new job and picking up my new car friday. Hopefully within the Mid of November I can purchase the Zeovit and see what's that's all about. :-)

[Mr. Tang]

What's the latest with this experiment??????????????????
It's been an year with no input

[Timanator]

This forum needs an update for sure.

[V]

hey i remember this thread, one of the few times i wasn't goofing off & actually contributed something :rotfl:

[dobly_1999]

I started the Biokit this morning, March 24, 2008. I have photos before I started to keep a record. I want colorful corals.

[V]

sweet, & welcome to the boards

make yourself @ home. Dont do anything i wouldn't do, ...so that means you have pretty much free range..lol

Set up a new member thread so we can see your progress!

[CarmieJo]

Hi dobly and :welcome: to TR.

[stonyreef]

I started the Biokit this morning, March 24, 2008. I have photos before I started to keep a record. I want colorful corals.

In my opinion, Prodibio is not going to get you colorful corals by itself. It can definitely, in my experience (mileage certainly varies), help clear up your tank, lower nutrients, and maybe as a result of the c-dosing, get better colors by reducing turbidity and allowing more light get to the coral.

However, if you're going for colors / ability to control tweak, I'd look into another product, zeo or FM. That said, prodibio was very effective for me in reducing excessive nutrients. In about 3 months, NO3 and PO4 dropped substantially. It wasn't all prodibio - water changes & good husbandry assisted - it's not magic. Anyway, here's how it went.

9/12
# PO4 ~ 0.14
# NO3 ~ 20

9/16
# NO3 ~ 15 / 20
# PO4 ~ 0.14

9/21
# NO3 ~ 15 / 20
# PO4 ~ 0.12 / 0.14

10/1
# NO3 ~ 20
# PO4 ~ 0.10 / 0.12

10/11
# NO3 ~ 10 / 15
# PO4 ~ 0.14

11/1
# NO3 ~ LESS THAN 2ppm
# PO4 ~ LESS THAN 0.03

12/7
# NO3 ~ undetectable
# PO4 ~ 0.02 or less

Yesterday
# NO3 ~ undetectable
# PO4 ~ 0.02 or less

[dobly_1999]

The prodibio and urchins cleaned the tank. The colors did color up, but once I started using Reefboost, I notice Redhair algae. I have treated the tank twice to kill the algae and I stopped using Reefboost. The colors lost the colors and started turning brown. Even the colors that were colorful lost color.

I plan to follow the method of ReefCentral Tank of the month for July 2008. He uses Prodibio with some Zeovit stuff. I do believe the BioClean helps keep the tank clean.

My current skimmer was pulling some very dark matter. I have a new skimmer, Octopus Pro 250 and sump that I plan to install this weekend. I will be using BioClean to control the shock to the tank.

After Prodibio

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/SylvesterinFL/3MonthsAfterProdibio/photo#5216223575479311522"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/SylvesterinFL/SGO_tIV2XKI/AAAAAAAABQQ/jfSZJhqKNHk/s144/IMG_3783.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/SylvesterinFL/3MonthsAfterProdibio">3 months afte...</a></td></tr></table>

[Victoria]

I would love to see a test start to finish. The only experience I have with this product is hit and miss. What I mean by that is that I use it sometimes and other times I don't. What I did use it for was when I moved my tank and upgraded to the 120. I started to get some HA so I added some biodigest and it went away. So I'm not so sure if its good to use all the time?? But I do know it does have it uses. I too am a firm believer in very good husbandry!!