Okay guys....need some help here.

For months now I've been going back and forth between Calcium Reactor and Kalk Reactor/Kalkwasser. I can't make up my mind!!! And I can't figure out if there's an advantage one way or another im terms of the size of my system.


Some specs:
Display tank volume = 1600liters (425g)
Sump volume = will be around 100liters
Refugium volume = will be around 250-300liters


Using Kalkwasser as top-off water for a large tank doesn't seem very practical, but maybe someone can clue me in as to how to make this as automated as possible.

I definitely want something that will run as much on its own as it can.

HELP!!!!:confused:

i want to sit in on this one too as i am in the same boat.

i currently use kalk as top off water, but have been looking into either a Ca or Kalk reactor, but cant seem to find definitive differences.

the best i can find is that a Ca reactor will handle larger Ca consumptions rates that a kalk reactor, but a kalk reactor will add many other benefits to the system inherent to using kalk.

i am leaning towards a kalk reactor, but still not totally decided.

Good - I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one! :-)

Yeah, I've also read that a Calcium reactor might be better for larger Ca consumption, but I'm not sure if that means loads of stony corals in your tank and/or larger volume tanks....

Okay...here's some questions then:

Do they affect alkalinity differently? Or rather, do either of them have a distinct advantage over the other in terms of maintaining alkalinity?

Do either of them affect Mg2+ levels?

Do either of them affect Mg2+ levels?

if i rememebr correctly, Kalk has a positive effect on mg2, but dont quote me on that

Yeah, I thought I had read that kalkwasser influenced the Mg2+ levels, but I wasn't sure.

So, anything against a Calcium reactor?

kalkreactors do have a positive effect on magnesium, but can deplete strontium very quickly. i think from what i hear from hanging out in my lfs is that most people who choose to go with a kalkreactor do so because of less equipment required to be safe.

opps, have not membered up yet,& run out of pic space on my last pic postings ;-)

RB try these links
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/archives/forum/72-1.html
http://www.superreactorguide.com/kalk-reactor.html
http://www.masa.asn.au/main.php?page=php/archives/archives.php&category=Equipment





more search ideas if u need them
http://search.starware.com/search.php?product=hsearch&tmpl=1B&src_id=9000&qry=calcium+reactor+setup

I have been debating going with a calcium reactor for a while, but I don't want to have to worry about a co2 tank and stuff. We already have a lot to think about with our tanks, no need to add anything more.

I know someone who actually uses both a CA reactor and Nielsen reactor in his tank...it is dominated by stony coral.

i think the trends moving towards having both because of the difference in evaporation during the summer & winter months

What's the problem with having a CO2 tank? It should be pretty maintenance free and lasts for quite awhile, right?

Veriann - which model is the picture that you posted? Thanks for the links. I'll read everything over.....

The kalkreactor would still be used as top-off right?? In that case, I think if your evaporation is high, then this is probably the limiting factor??

RB ive update some lists in this area on http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11045#post11045

and i cant remember what brand it is now, i think a member in aust builds them, but dont quote me on it, i see alot

if i rememebr correctly, Kalk has a positive effect on mg2, but dont quote me on that
depending on your source of Kalk, it will contain magnesium at differing levels. If you use pickling lime, the mg content is higher than if you got reagent grade CaO, but who would do that?!? (too expensive and a bit of mg is a good thing)

RB ive update some lists in this area on http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11045#post11045

and i cant remember what brand it is now, i think a member in aust builds them, but dont quote me on it, i see alot


Thanks V! I hadn't had a chance yet to go over that list. Thanks so much for putting that together. I'll sit down with it tomorrow! :-)

What's the problem with having a CO2 tank? It should be pretty maintenance free and lasts for quite awhile, right?

Veriann - which model is the picture that you posted? Thanks for the links. I'll read everything over.....

The kalkreactor would still be used as top-off right?? In that case, I think if your evaporation is high, then this is probably the limiting factor??
its not the CO2 tank that causes problems, but the solnoids and requlators that is problematic. as your tank pressures drop, the lack of head pressure can cause a sudden purge of CO2. also, to really be safe a ph controller is required.

try this one RB, its a simple approach

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/index.php

Thanks V - that was a great article.

FW - okay...now I understand that there is more to worry about with a CO2 tank.

hmmmm.....well, this certainly doesn't make the decision process any easier....

do both RB, run your kalk as u have been, and make the CA chamber a working project. as long as your on the ball with your levels it should be a snap for u

the only problem is that I haven't been running kalk....i've been surviving on the 2 portion additives and have been keeping my alkalinity and calcium levels up that way. But, I don't think it's something good long-term...it's not stable enough.

That's why I'm having a hard time deciding between kalkwasser and calcium reactor - I don't have either! :-(

My only concern about the kalkwasser is that with a larger tank, it seems like an awful lot of kalkwasser to make up constantly in order to use it as top-off water. Am I confused about this?

lol
i think we've been down this road before, kalk is cheaper, Ca reactor is more stable. swing towards mixing ur own kalk for larger use till u have found a CA reactor that suits ur needs, your still along way from stocking that monster in your liveing room, so u have abit of time RB. personally i would check out Schuran Jetstream 2, then Geo's Reactor 624, or check out Aquatica Australia's chambers while your down under. they have custom add on chamber setups
i should prob add that even though it might seem like a constant ajustment at the start, like anything, once u have it for awhile, u get it down to a fine art where u can do it blind folded

what do you use V?

After talking with Iwan, now I'm back to thinking about using the Balling Method. He says that a Calcium Reactor was no longer to keep up with his calcium demand and that the Balling Method only costs him 80euro/year!!!! Now, that's pretty incredible. All you need is a multichannel perstaltic pump and you're set to go....

uigh...I wish someone would just make the decision for me!

i too haev been trying to get info on the balling method, if you haev a descriptive link with reciepies, please share.. :)

Rob - Here's (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595&highlight=balling) a thread that I started awhile back about the Balling Method and the recipe for use. It's very very popular in Germany, as well as here in Sweden. Iwan has completely switched over to it from previously using kalkwasser and then a calcium reactor.

i was looking for something a bit more english...lol.. as in use dow flakes.. instead of calcium chloride.. ;)

i was looking for something a bit more english...lol.. as in use dow flakes.. instead of calcium chloride.. ;)


ha ha!! :p We can dig out the more "scientific" terms for ya Rob! :D

the chemist within will require a nice stiff drink after reading, but hey we've got to love the "forced chemisty major" in all of us!

i'll post what i have rob

http://cashh.de/?page_id=56

http://www.aquacare.de/info/tipps/e_ca_kh.htm
http://www.aquacare.de/glossar/egl_para.htm

http://www.andy-hipkiss.co.uk/caalkbal.htm

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/hardware/index.htm

RB needs to translate these
http://www.hausriff.ch/
http://haaga.aqua-web.org/hardware/index.htm

thanks V. i will check thise out tonight..

yeah, they were great links. The first one was the best English version. Hausriff is Iwan's site, just FYI...

My only concern about the kalkwasser is that with a larger tank, it seems like an awful lot of kalkwasser to make up constantly in order to use it as top-off water. Am I confused about this?

I found these two articles useful

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#11

The short of it is if you have enough space for a large container you do not have to make it up constantly. I use a 20 gallon garbage can every three weeks. My biggest problem now is increasing the evaporation rate on my 125g.

Jon

your right, the bigger the tank, the more is needed, but in theroy the hydroxide solution should be increaseing at a steady rate even with the same sized tank! because between the growth factors in play, any new additions or simply the fact that the coral decied they want more this week, it can drain the over all system pretty quicky! giving rise to the collapes of the three pillars! Alk ,PH, Ca!

thats said, the choice is open to upgrade to a reactor!
which will handle all your needs, but requires no less attention in regards to the levels in the tank parameters! u can also continue with supervision the top up of Ca hydroxide(kalk) at the ame time, in the research i have come across in my travels its a trend that seems to be gaining momentum.

the biggest draw back with increaseing the volume of the kalk storage vessile is the contact with air that sets off a chain reaction quickly depleteing or robbing the mixture of its availability & usefulness to the corals

Thanks Jon for posting those articles. They were insightful. It took me awhile to get back around to this thread though.

So, I think I'm leaning more towards the Ca Reactor and I can still add some kalkwasser as well if I want!

calcium reactor all the way, less maintinece!!!

still needs to be monitored daily! Co2 rate especially!, more expensive to buy initally, depending on the source in the reaction chamber can be cheaper to run taken as a whole! although recharging bottles can become a pain if your far away from a source! its definately the most stable option, and definately effective for larger scale applications or high absorbtion rates where dosing kalk becomes an act of futility chasing your own tail!!!!
ideally kalk should still be used for topoff, and contributes to the three pillars of stability!

Thanks V! I gotcha!! :)