Fish Ideas

[rroselavy]

Hey all,

I'm currently doing research for determining my next reef inhabitant. This may not happen for a while since I am doing some minor mods to the tank, including gradually cutting down the sponges and gradually replacing the bioballs/ceramic rings with LR.
I was hoping that some of you experienced reefers could point me some interesting directions, so I could do some reading.

I'm leaning toward a Six-line Wrasse, or other peaceful (small) Wrasse or some other interesting addition - like a symbiotic Goby/Pistol shrimp combo. I would like to eventually add some sustainable corals.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

Here's my tank info:

JBL 24G Nano DX, 72 watts stock hood lighting.
Stock Powerhead + RIO 90.
24# LR and 20# LS (1.5" SSB)
Temp 76-78.7 degrees F
Last test results: pH=8.2, Alk="High", Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=2.5ppm


Peaceful, reef compatible inhabitants:

10 Astrea Snails
2 Tonga Snails
2 Nassarius Snails - I really like these substrate divers
1 Cleaner Shrimp - (Jacques, of course)
1 Emerald Crab (Harry Crabtree)
1 Ocellaris Clown (Funny 1.25")
1 Spotted Cardinal (PJ - 1.5")
3 Peanut Worms (Stretchy, Slim and Pokey - live in holes in the LR and feed at night)
Lots of Bacteria (yet to be named)

[ghostbear29]

i love the 6 line! great looking little beastie. I believe rob has one. ask him what he thinks of it. I also believe that a podcast has some info on the little bugger as well. good luck. lets see some pics. my 16 bowfront has a clarkii clown and a lone chromis who thinks hes a clownfish. you'll get attached real quickly in these smaller tanks. good luck.

[V]

Hey RRose
if u have the space for your ceramic noodles, u dont need to phaze them out of the system, they harbour bacteria because they are poras ,& act just the same way as LR. just include them somewhere towards the end near the return if u have a sump or fuge, just remember to keep them submerged cause they should already be live!

& i dont mean to sound all weird on u, but u already have a clean up crew & 2 fish, i have to ask how much are u hoping to add to a nano tank?

[rroselavy]

Hey RRose
if u have the space for your ceramic noodles, u dont need to phaze them out of the system, they harbour bacteria because they are poras ,& act just the same way as LR.

Good point, I suppose they only do good. I was thinking that LR also has anaerobic activity, no? This leads to a good question. Many Nano owners place LR rubble into the rear compartments; doesn't breaking LR into smaller pieces defeat some or all of its anaerobic capacity?


i have to ask how much are u hoping to add to a nano tank?

Not weird at all. Beginners like me tend to cling to rules without understanding more fundamental concepts. I've read 1" of fish per 2 to 3 gallons. This is all relative, since I understand that a 5" fish is going to create more detritus than 5 x 1" fish. The regularity and volume of WC's, amount of LR/LS, and not overfeeding are also relevant. I was trying to select my fish based on being not much more than 3" when fully grown. I have been using the 1" per 2 gallons of actual water (not tank volume), which leaves me with 17/2=8.5"

I realize that a deeper understanding of is necessary to fully appreciate the bioload I am introducing. From what I've read, Ocellaris clowns grow to 3.5", while PJ Cardinals grow to 3.1". That leaves me exactly two inches. Oops. Look like my math only leaves me with two inches! Look like one more fish...the Sixline grows to 3" I've read. Would this be a mistake?

FWIW: I perform a weekly 2G WC, feeding my fish once every two days.

[V]

if u take a LR large flat piece as an example & break it up into smaller pieces it has the same mass, but now has a larger overall surface area techniclly. Im not saying break every piece u can find, just using it as an example ok.
as long as u have water circulation flowing around the coral pieces your sweet.
having them in the overflow a type bacteria will flourish even at this heigher oxygen saturation point. but to the over all system if u have proper circulation turn-overs u will find this saturation will be pretty constant accross the system as a whole. but proper circulation is the key.

working out on the bio load is a great guide, but increasing fish stocks can subtract from corals. more so in nano systems because of the relatively small volume.
ive never kept a 6-line, had other wrase, but never a 6 line.
if they are the same as most wrase they are hardy & active, i think from robs podcast he did go into them, so they hve to be safe around the reef. but source out where they sleep, some bury themselves, some spin coocoons at night, ect u get the drift anyways

[Reefbaby]

I think 6-line wrasses are a great fish. HOWEVER, my personal opinion is that they are not meant for a nano tank. People may differ with me, but I think they are a fish that likes/prefers/needs a bit more swimming space. They like to dart about in the tank and I would think that a nano might be too confining for such a fish. Maybe the nano-experts have a different opinion...i've never had a nano.

If you were willing to be patient and wait until your nano is thriving with pods, then I would suggest a mandarin. They're very peaceful, entertaining to watch and would probably do fine in a nano, provided that the pod source is able to be constantly replenished (i.e. lots of safe rubble zones for them to proliferate).

[Rob]

sixline wrasses are awesome..
as far as a nano tank it depends on how small, if its 20-30 gallons i think that would be ok. but anything small they "might" not like. i have never tried it so i cant say for sure.

as for the mandarin, they really should not go in a nano at all.
most common recommendation at that you need at least 50-60 gallons full of LR per mandarin. some will say as high as 70-80.

[jeepjon]

How about a small goby like a clown or a firefish? I know purple firefish are gorgeous.

[V]

the below mentioned love carpet surfing lord howe style

[Reefbaby]

as for the mandarin, they really should not go in a nano at all.
most common recommendation at that you need at least 50-60 gallons full of LR per mandarin. some will say as high as 70-80.

Well that's good to know. Since they require such a specific food source, then that makes total sense....Thanks Rob!

[Reefbaby]

How about a small goby like a clown or a firefish? I know purple firefish are gorgeous.


oohhh yeah! A firefish...those are nice too and good for "calm" tanks...

[V]

if it be me, i would prob go a scooter blennie, they are great looking, very colourful but can blend in sometime with the reef, males are very crested in the dorsal area and tend to show it. they eat most food u give them, not overly fussy. only draw back is sometimes it takes awhile for them to not perceave u as a threat. they use their colouring and freeze motionless when startled. but the best thing is they control most of the typical aquarium pests, and love to hop & perch on all your ledges.
just suggestions as u know!

[rroselavy]

Sorry guys, my laptop drive is on the fritz, which is really limiting my access to TR. I really appreciate the suggestions.

I don't necessarily want a pretty fish, but I will look into the firefish to see if they have interesting behaviors and personalities. The scooter blenny sounds cool, my LFS sells them, but their site says they are difficult due to picky eating habits. I've read that there are many variations sold under the "Scooter Blenny" name. I will really have to do some homework, but a Scooter looks pretty interesting.

http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=01-1617

Thanks for the Sixline comments. I will look closely at space requirements when I do my research.

Any other ideas welcomed...

[CarmieJo]

My firefish is fun to watch and pretty to boot!

[fat walrus]

the below mentioned love carpet surfing lord howe style
what exactly is lord howe style?

[Reefbaby]

what exactly is lord howe style?

ha ha...I googled and wikipedied it as well! only found out it's an island in Eastern Australia. I think V's going to have to jump in here and enlighten us! :-)

[V]

i invented the phase, "finding a needle in a hay stack" lol

http://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Australia_Pacific/Australia_NSW/Lord_Howe_Island/

[ghostbear29]

well sorry so long to reply, but a scooter is just a occilated dragonet ( cousin of the mandarin) same feeding habits (massive amounts of copepods) still, what size nano are we looking at again? we might be doing the gobie shrimp thingy! interesting enough.

[rroselavy]

well sorry so long to reply, but a scooter is just a occilated dragonet ( cousin of the mandarin) same feeding habits (massive amounts of copepods) still, what size nano are we looking at again? we might be doing the gobie shrimp thingy! interesting enough.

Thanks for your reply.

My Nano is 24 Gallons (details in the first post).

Would I have to culture Copepods in order to sustain the scooter, or will Copepods flourish if introduced into the tank somehow?

The Gobie/Pistol Shrimp is an interesting combo, but I have heard that the pistol makes loud popping sounds with their boxing-glove like claw - which may not be appropriate for my daughter's bedroom. This shrimp is really interesting though, providing it doesn't punch a hole through my tank glass with that stun gun:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pistolshrimps.htm

Still researching...

[Reefbaby]

in a Nano tank, there probably would be a very limited amount of copepods, but the other nano experts would have to chime in here....

[fat walrus]

a pistol shrimp will not punch a hole through your tank. you are thinking of a mantis shrimp. a Yaza Hase goby and shrimp pair will stay small.

[Rob]

the shrimp/goby combo would be perfect.. :)
if i ever do a real nano, i would be getting them over the common "clown"

[Reefbaby]

I've never seen this combo at the LFSs here. Is this a duo that you would typically order from your LFS?

[Rob]

around here, they are common. and yes. its a symbiotic pair, like and anemone and a clown.

very cool to see in action.

[rroselavy]

I've never seen this combo at the LFSs here. Is this a duo that you would typically order from your LFS?


My LFS usually has Pistols. They look more like spotted mini-lobsters at first glance. Very pretty.

Here's a bit more info on the Shrimp (or Watchman) Gobie/Pistol Shrimp combo:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/shrimpgobies.htm

I read someone's post about the pistol's snapping sound being too loud for a bedroom. Quite an interesting quandry.

---

Since it seems as though a Sixline or Scooter Blennie will make quick work of my Nano's Copepod population, I am investingating a hang-on refugium for my Nano where I can let copepods populate. I am not sure if the walls of the JBJ Nano 24DX can support a hang-on...seems like a bad idea for glass tanks. Perhaps a small tank on the side will be a safer proposition.


If anyone knows of other nano-appropriate symbiotic relationships, or any other fish with interesting behaviors, please let me know.

Thanks for all the input. You guys are the best!

[fat walrus]

ha ha...I googled and wikipedied it as well! only found out it's an island in Eastern Australia. I think V's going to have to jump in here and enlighten us! :-)
lord richard howe: Earl, admiral, commander in chief of british troops in America during revolution.

lord william howe: 5th Viscount, younger brother of richard, general, commander of british troops at battle of bunker hill during American Revolution.

[V]

lord richard howe: Earl, admiral, commander in chief of british troops in America during revolution.

lord william howe: 5th Viscount, younger brother of richard, general, commander of british troops at battle of bunker hill during American Revolution.


onya sonnya!
always going that one step better, thanks for the history lession blubber, remind me to throw a spit-ball at the blackboard your chalking up. hehe

[fat walrus]

hey veriann, don't forget acanthastrea lord howensis. 2 years ago it reached a price of $75 a polyp. those brits still scr***** the americans in the end.

[V]

bless u
another one that needs a tissue, ive already handed out one to RB this week, here, take another for latter! :p

[fat walrus]

one polyp, or twwooooOO?

[ghostbear29]

sixlines have copepods as do lots of other fish, but the fish will consume almost anything else you throw in there. (flake, pellet, mysis) but the scooter has a peculiar diet of just copepods. there has been talk of having a refugia for dragonets to raise the copepods but it is unconfirmed that an idea like that really works. you could throw a over the counter product in the tank like the "pods in a bottle" thangy, but that is overly expensive and very tiresome. JMO.
And as for the gobie, the redlined hi fin with a pistol shrimp would be awesome. the smaller size of the tank would make it easier for them to pair up as well. good luck.

[rroselavy]

Hello everyone-

http://homepage.mac.com/svanzo/PopYasha/pictures/picture-1.jpg

Well, three months after this thread I finally added the last inhabitants to my tank...a Yasha Goby (or is it Yasa Hashe, Yasha Hase, Yashia Haze?), and Pistol shrimp (red and white banded snapping shrimp, Alpheus randalli). After acclimation, the Yasha goby took off (unseen for 10 days) and the Pistol got a welcome peck from my Ocellaris, and shot off backward (like a bullet) conveniently into a hole in my foremost LR.

It took about 2 weeks for the Goby and Pistol to reconvene. Luckily, they shacked up in a network of holes in the same small piece of LR, right in front of my tank. The Goby and Pistol somehow squeeze in together through these small holes, usually by taking turns. They have several entrances to their lair, which is quite comical when you see them dart in and out different holes. Both are quite sheepish, but have gotten much bolder since they were first introduced. The pistol is often hard at work maintaining the hole and barricading the perimeter with small pieces of LR rubble.

The Goby and Pistol have had one "argument" so far, and the Goby spent a few nights away in a different piece of LR. They made up, and everything is back to normal. Perhaps the Goby was just scouting out alternative caves where the Nassarius Snails could not maraud their lair whenever I spot feed them.

Thanks all for the advice, they are very cool. I whole heartedly recommend this pair for peaceful tanks...

[Reefbaby]

rroselavy - thanks for sharing! That's so great that the pair have finally found each other. I love the goby/shrimp relationship and can't wait to get a pair of my own. So, did you have a choice in what kind of pair? Were they paired up in the LFS prior to you buying them?

[rroselavy]

So, did you have a choice in what kind of pair? Were they paired up in the LFS prior to you buying them?

My LFS had several pairs, each inside a small (3" diameter, 4 inches long) clear perforated plastic cylinder. I am not really sure how long they were incarcerated together...

All they had was 3-4 Yasha-Pistol pairs, so I picked the best Yasha specimen I could. The Yasha happened to be the species of Shrimp Goby I was looking for, merely based on appearance.

I hear they can take a while to pair (perhaps if not "encouraged" already by the LFS. Mine took a couple of weeks to settle in, and another few weeks to spend more than a second out of their cave before ducking back in.

[CarmieJo]

Very cool!